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Pre Season Game 2 Flames vs Canucks

The_Tribal Chief

By The_Tribal Chief
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pikey7883 Advanced Member

pikey7883

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Lines

 

Andrew Mangiapane - Dillon Dube - Brett Ritchie

Jakob Pelletier - Adam Ruzicka - Matthew Phillips

Martin Pospisil - Glenn Gawdin - Luke Philp

Justin Kirkland - Byron Froese - Walker Duehr

 

Pairings

 

Juuso Valimaki - Michael Stone

Oliver Kylington - Kevin Gravel

Connor Mackey - Nick DeSimone

 

Goaltenders

 

Dan Vladar

Adam Werner

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pikey7883 Advanced Member

pikey7883

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I really like both of the top lines (minus Ritchie). I have been wondering if Dube could play Center for awhile, so this could be a good thing. I also really like Mang and Dube together. That third line should be the top line in the AHL, as Ruzicka and Phillips have shown some good chemistry together. I have a feeling the d are about to have another tough night 😳. I think Val will do better with Stone than Gudbranson though.

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travel_dude Advanced Member

travel_dude

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22 minutes ago, Saymzies said:

I can now here some sort of sound and a goal buzzer.

 

Fan 960 is airing the game, but I can't sync it up.

When I stop the video to have radio catch up, it restarts the game live.

So, about 3 minutes behind the play.

My usual streaming site not working now.

Darn NHL

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The_People1 Advanced Member

The_People1

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Another loss...

 

Goods,

Vladar - looked decent again but showing some warts

Mackay - is actually pretty steady.  No flash.  Just defends with smarts and makes a smart first pass.  Against elite talent he may get overwhelmed but against 3rd/4th liners, he's great.

Stone - way better than Gudbranson (not saying much but).  He had his moments.  if only he can hit the net with his shots.

Duehr - so much energy.  Great skating for a big guy... looking like the next Hathaway.  Plays simple hockey and hard working.  I think he's NHL ready.

Dube - played a much better game.  The Flames best player all night.

Mangiapane - had a few good rushes.  He's just getting warmed up.

Ritchie - still effective doing Ritchie stuff.

Ruzicka - he has stretches where he is great and then goes quiet.  Generally an opportunistic.  Does nothing much until there's a chance to make something happen and then he makes a great play.

Gawdin - liked his game.  Getting more involved every game.

 

Bads,

Werner - didn't have a good game.  loses sight of the puck on rebounds.  Vladar is definitely better.  

Kylington - he needs to separate himself from the pack if he wants to make the NHL and he hasn't done enough.

Valimaki - played a better game paired with Stone but hasn't shown he's someone who can be counted on in a top 4 role.  Need to see more from him.  Defensively, he's frantic at times and over plays from time to time... almost outsmarts himself kind of thing.

Gravel - not NHL material

DeSimone - not NHL material

Froese - he didn't play bad but he's been passed by the other kids

Pospisil - first kinda "meh" game.  Wasn't bad per se but wasn't noticeable for the first time.

Phillips - falls down way too much.  It got kind of annoying like you almost expect him to fall as soon as he has the puck in traffic.

Philp - not NHL material.  May have mistaken Philp for Phillips at times.

Kirkland - not NHL material

Pelletier - disappointed again.  Hasn't shown the ability to make something out of nothing like Dube or Mangiapane.  You want that out of a player with top 6 potential.  He doesn't have that level of smarts and IQ.  Doesn't understand how to move the box and make opponents miss.  No head fakes, smart hesitations, buying time for something to develop, etc.  Too simplistic of a player... just launches prayers at the net when the play seems dead and doesn't keep possession for a reset/regroup, etc.  He likes to shoot but shot isn't that accurate.  He's otherwise decent defensively and works hard using his speed to defend.  Aggressive along the boards and battles hard.  He could develop into a shut down speed guy.   

 

Ugly,

Stone looked much better than Gudbranson paired with Valimaki. That $1.9-mil cap space looks like a complete lost caused at this point.  Gudbranson is likely starting the season as the 7th D and preferably lost on waivers.  Could we not have signed him to a PTO instead?  Right now Mackay is above Gudbranson on the depth charts are far as I'm concerned.  This isn't even to say Valimaki-Stone is a good pairing because I could see them struggle against better/faster players.  Those two are slow together.

Generally speaking, our bottom 6 guys fail at generating offense and that's going to put so much pressure on our top 6 to get it done all by themselves this season.

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jjgallow Advanced Member

jjgallow

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8 hours ago, The_People1 said:

Another loss...

 

Goods,

Vladar - looked decent again but showing some warts

Mackay - is actually pretty steady.  No flash.  Just defends with smarts and makes a smart first pass.  Against elite talent he may get overwhelmed but against 3rd/4th liners, he's great.

Stone - way better than Gudbranson (not saying much but).  He had his moments.  if only he can hit the net with his shots.

Duehr - so much energy.  Great skating for a big guy... looking like the next Hathaway.  Plays simple hockey and hard working.  I think he's NHL ready.

Dube - played a much better game.  The Flames best player all night.

Mangiapane - had a few good rushes.  He's just getting warmed up.

Ritchie - still effective doing Ritchie stuff.

Ruzicka - he has stretches where he is great and then goes quiet.  Generally an opportunistic.  Does nothing much until there's a chance to make something happen and then he makes a great play.

Gawdin - liked his game.  Getting more involved every game.

 

Bads,

Werner - didn't have a good game.  loses sight of the puck on rebounds.  Vladar is definitely better.  

Kylington - he needs to separate himself from the pack if he wants to make the NHL and he hasn't done enough.

Valimaki - played a better game paired with Stone but hasn't shown he's someone who can be counted on in a top 4 role.  Need to see more from him.  Defensively, he's frantic at times and over plays from time to time... almost outsmarts himself kind of thing.

Gravel - not NHL material

DeSimone - not NHL material

Froese - he didn't play bad but he's been passed by the other kids

Pospisil - first kinda "meh" game.  Wasn't bad per se but wasn't noticeable for the first time.

Phillips - falls down way too much.  It got kind of annoying like you almost expect him to fall as soon as he has the puck in traffic.

Philp - not NHL material.  May have mistaken Philp for Phillips at times.

Kirkland - not NHL material

Pelletier - disappointed again.  Hasn't shown the ability to make something out of nothing like Dube or Mangiapane.  You want that out of a player with top 6 potential.  He doesn't have that level of smarts and IQ.  Doesn't understand how to move the box and make opponents miss.  No head fakes, smart hesitations, buying time for something to develop, etc.  Too simplistic of a player... just launches prayers at the net when the play seems dead and doesn't keep possession for a reset/regroup, etc.  He likes to shoot but shot isn't that accurate.  He's otherwise decent defensively and works hard using his speed to defend.  Aggressive along the boards and battles hard.  He could develop into a shut down speed guy.   

 

Ugly,

Stone looked much better than Gudbranson paired with Valimaki. That $1.9-mil cap space looks like a complete lost caused at this point.  Gudbranson is likely starting the season as the 7th D and preferably lost on waivers.  Could we not have signed him to a PTO instead?  Right now Mackay is above Gudbranson on the depth charts are far as I'm concerned.  This isn't even to say Valimaki-Stone is a good pairing because I could see them struggle against better/faster players.  Those two are slow together.

Generally speaking, our bottom 6 guys fail at generating offense and that's going to put so much pressure on our top 6 to get it done all by themselves this season.

 

Great synopsis, thank you.   I don't think you'll get a lot of thanks for this but you're keeping it real.   This is the prospect pipeline that "Win Now" generates.   But our time will come.    And, good to see Dube look strong.

 

Extra thanks for:

 

"Phillips - falls down way too much.  It got kind of annoying like you almost expect him to fall as soon as he has the puck in traffic."

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travel_dude Advanced Member

travel_dude

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10 hours ago, The_People1 said:

Goods,

Vladar - looked decent again but showing some warts

Mackay - is actually pretty steady.  No flash.  Just defends with smarts and makes a smart first pass.  Against elite talent he may get overwhelmed but against 3rd/4th liners, he's great.

Stone - way better than Gudbranson (not saying much but).  He had his moments.  if only he can hit the net with his shots.

Duehr - so much energy.  Great skating for a big guy... looking like the next Hathaway.  Plays simple hockey and hard working.  I think he's NHL ready.

Dube - played a much better game.  The Flames best player all night.

Mangiapane - had a few good rushes.  He's just getting warmed up.

Ritchie - still effective doing Ritchie stuff.

Ruzicka - he has stretches where he is great and then goes quiet.  Generally an opportunistic.  Does nothing much until there's a chance to make something happen and then he makes a great play.

Gawdin - liked his game.  Getting more involved every game.

 

Ritchie can't shoot worth beans.  Equivalent to topping the ball in golf.  He's not an everyday NHL player and should never be.  

I would like to see Ruzicka with NHL players.  He should be looked at for a line with Backlund and Dube IMHO.

Gawdin needs to show that he can score at the NHL level; his game is okay, but I don't see him doing much as a 4th liner with guys like Lewis.

I'm okay with Mackey.  I think he is at least a 7th D.  Battle between him and Kylington, but Kyl isn't looking ready right now.

Stone was bad.  He made as many bad reads as good plays.  Between Gudbranson, Kylington, Mackey and Stone, it's not a good pair with Valimaki.

Valimaki-Mackey may be the least annoying pair of the options.  Stone a little more of a "safe" pair mate, but not really liking the options.

Gudbranson should be waived and sent to the AHL ASAP.  Wait for the barrage of waivers, but don't try to sneak him in.

My best case scenario is we use him sparingly and trade him at TDL, even if we have to retain salary.

He could turn it around, but boy howdy he is trash right now.

 

  

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robrob74 Advanced Member

robrob74

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7 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Ritchie can't shoot worth beans.  Equivalent to topping the ball in golf.  He's not an everyday NHL player and should never be.  

I would like to see Ruzicka with NHL players.  He should be looked at for a line with Backlund and Dube IMHO.

Gawdin needs to show that he can score at the NHL level; his game is okay, but I don't see him doing much as a 4th liner with guys like Lewis.

I'm okay with Mackey.  I think he is at least a 7th D.  Battle between him and Kylington, but Kyl isn't looking ready right now.

Stone was bad.  He made as many bad reads as good plays.  Between Gudbranson, Kylington, Mackey and Stone, it's not a good pair with Valimaki.

Valimaki-Mackey may be the least annoying pair of the options.  Stone a little more of a "safe" pair mate, but not really liking the options.

Gudbranson should be waived and sent to the AHL ASAP.  Wait for the barrage of waivers, but don't try to sneak him in.

My best case scenario is we use him sparingly and trade him at TDL, even if we have to retain salary.

He could turn it around, but boy howdy he is trash right now.

 

  

 

The problem is, Valamaki has been bad too. That whole 3rd pairing and others have been not that great. I knew this about Gudbranson already. It's a head scratcher of a signing, probably not a BT deal, but BT has been known to make these boneheaded deals for players that are barely league players. Hopefully it just takes some of these guys some time to get their legs moving, but not really anyone is knocking on the door to get a spot. Are the vets confident they're going to play? THey're playing a bit lacks out there.

 

maybe valamaki needs someone better to play with. But the times I saw him out there, he looks like a fish out of water, scrambling. 

 

It's tough to see what we have in a team when there hasn't been any of the top 6 really playing in their top6 roles in either game. We'll see once the team starts to play more as the team, but it's pretty disappointing to see the lack of urgency or poor play by the younger players. They need to show that they're more hungry than other team's players. I get that they'd probably be playing more of the other team's vets/NHLers, but they should show at least an ability to keep up, otherwise they are not even close to knocking on the door. 

 

I get why fans are thinking it's the end of the world. We aren't expecting the Stanley Cup from any of these guys, after all, it is only the preseason. But I think we just want to see where they're at in their development, if they have a level of compete in them, showing at least some promise. Like JJ said, this is what it looks like to have your picks traded away for NHL ready talent to try win now. Our middling prospects are middling prospects. We talk of gems, but they're already playing in the NHL. 

 

Too bad Zary got injured. Maybe he'd settle Pelletier's game. But Pelletier has looked off too. It's hard as these guys have only played a few months worth of games last year when they normally play about 20-30 or more. Let's make excuses for them. It's that. 

 

But let's see what the team looks like before the season starts. Can we find a good mix for the lines. Hope that the rust breaks off and the bottom 6 adds can play like they're meant to play bottom6 and aren't over the hill. 

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travel_dude Advanced Member

travel_dude

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17 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

maybe valamaki needs someone better to play with. But the times I saw him out there, he looks like a fish out of water, scrambling. 

 

It's tough to see what we have in a team when there hasn't been any of the top 6 really playing in their top6 roles in either game. We'll see once the team starts to play more as the team, but it's pretty disappointing to see the lack of urgency or poor play by the younger players. They need to show that they're more hungry than other team's players. I get that they'd probably be playing more of the other team's vets/NHLers, but they should show at least an ability to keep up, otherwise they are not even close to knocking on the door. 

 

I get why fans are thinking it's the end of the world. We aren't expecting the Stanley Cup from any of these guys, after all, it is only the preseason. But I think we just want to see where they're at in their development, if they have a level of compete in them, showing at least some promise. Like JJ said, this is what it looks like to have your picks traded away for NHL ready talent to try win now. Our middling prospects are middling prospects. We talk of gems, but they're already playing in the NHL. 

 

 

Valimaki makes poor decisions at times.  I would prefer to see him playing with a vet that actually knows how to play defense.

Unfortunately, we don't have a safe 3rd pair guy for him, so his mistakes will be forced (due to his partner leaving him less options).

Would prefer to see him take the puck up the ice instead of panic passing.

Dutter has to settle him down and get him to play to his strengths.

 

Considering the lineup decisions, it's not surprising that the prospects have looked bad.

You want to see Ruzicka show you his game, play him with NHL players that are not bump/grind/chip/chase players.

2 of the top 6 are actual NHL players with Ritchie being at best a 4th liner.

The bottom 6 should not even be in camp, save for maybe Gawdin, Duehr and Pospisil.

Both of those guys not name Duehr need to be up to NHL speed before they play a NHL game.

Duehr looks like he has gears and a decent shot.

 

The prospects are what should be expected.  They will require time in the AHL.  It's not an indictment of BT desire to win, just that the best are in the NHL.

Could we have one or two more 1st rounders (one from 2015 and one from 2018) but we have hits on the others so far?  Sure.

The later years (2018 onward) are yet to be evaluated, are they not?

Most of those draft classes are just seeing pro work or still in junior or college.  

 

 

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