Flames Trade Deadline 2019

[JTech780]

57 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Makes me feel uneasy.  I hope we don't revisit Zucker this summer.  We don't have cap space (unless it's Zucker for Neal straight up).

 

My guess is that Frolik would probably go the other way in that deal and the difference in salary is about $1.4m so we could have handled it fairly easily. 

 

I was kind of wondering if Frolik was looking to go to another situation and Treliving thought he had a deal to not only help out Frolik, but to upgrade him with Zucker, and then the deal fell apart.

[The_People1]

45 minutes ago, redfire11 said:

I would have loved to have Mark Stone on our team but not at 10+ mil a year and not for 8 years. Now we can trade Michael Stone and use our 1st round pick to select another Valmaki, Stone, Point, or Gaudreau.

 

Wasn't his new deal $9.5-mil?  Does that change anything for you?

[The_People1]

40 minutes ago, CheersMan said:

With an expiring asset (Stone), Dorion ended up with Brannstrom and BT helped him get it, that's how.

 

So by NOT putting Valimaki on the table, BT helped OTT get Brannstrom?  And is Brannstrom even good?  Can u shed some light on how good you think Brannstrom will be in the NHL?

 

Maybe you are right and Brannstrom is a future two time Norris winner and OTT got away with robbery.

[conundrumed]

Just now, The_People1 said:

 

Wasn't his new deal $9.5-mil?  Does that change anything for you?

I was listening to NHL radio and they were figuring the taxes evened out the deal from what OTT was offering.

 

Outside of that...yay we did little.

TDL is waaaay overrated imo. Keep building with what we got.

Good job BT, I didn't wanna wake up this morn without a 1st, Vali, Dube, Andersson, Kyl either. Or Frolik for that matter.

Say no to the hype!

[conundrumed]

1 minute ago, The_People1 said:

 

So by NOT putting Valimaki on the table, BT helped OTT get Brannstrom?  And is Brannstrom even good?  Can u shed some light on how good you think Brannstrom will be in the NHL?

 

Maybe you are right and Brannstrom is a future two time Norris winner and OTT got away with robbery.

Top 5 D prospect in the NHL rn is likely.

Future pairing:

Chabot-Brannstrom will be high end.

Doesn't mean the Sens got away with one. We wouldn't give Vali, they would give Brannstrom prolly sealed the deal.

[The_People1]

32 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Lebrun explains how the Sens were about 30 mins away from the deal faling apart. Not to mention what a horrible look it is that the Sens had how much time to make a deal and yet the Knights get it done in 30 mins. 

 

I'm honesty not sure the Sens can repair their image with Melnyk around. 

 

https://www.nicholsonhockey.com/archives/2019/2/26/lebrun-explains-last-minute-stone-trade-details

 

Ya man, two weeks ago the Sens were the ONLY sellers in the market.  That was the time to sell.  They had 5 or 6 buyers at that time.  Instead they pull this stunt "we are negotiating long term deals for Duchene and Stone".  Like who were they trying to fool?

[conundrumed]

2 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ya man, two weeks ago the Sens were the ONLY sellers in the market.  That was the time to sell.  They had 5 or 6 buyers at that time.  Instead they pull this stunt "we are negotiating long term deals for Duchene and Stone".  Like who were they trying to fool?

Funny it was just last TDL they blew a deal with Vegas for Karlsson.

 

[redfire11]

26 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Wasn't his new deal $9.5-mil?  Does that change anything for you?

https://www.capfriendly.com/post_tax_calculator

Vegas taxes 36.41%

Ottawa taxes 52.90%

Calgary taxes 47.43%

So for Stone to make the same amount of money Calgary would have had to pay 10.55 m per year and had a cap of that.

[redfire11]

For the league to REALLY have an equal salary cap we should have a total number after taxes.

[The_People1]

5 minutes ago, redfire11 said:

https://www.capfriendly.com/post_tax_calculator

Vegas taxes 36.41%

Ottawa taxes 52.90%

Calgary taxes 47.43%

So for Stone to make the same amount of money Calgary would have had to pay 10.55 m per year and had a cap of that.

 

What would you be comfortable paying Stone on an 8-year deal?

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, CheersMan said:

And that still may not have been enough. Dorion was playing BT and McPhee like a banjo.

I don't think Dorian was playing much of anything given were he ended up on Stone. He got more for Duchene. The Flames knew when to walk away, never a bad idea.

[cross16]

28 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

So by NOT putting Valimaki on the table, BT helped OTT get Brannstrom?  And is Brannstrom even good?  Can u shed some light on how good you think Brannstrom will be in the NHL?

 

Maybe you are right and Brannstrom is a future two time Norris winner and OTT got away with robbery.

 

I think Brannstrom is very good and I think you'd have to rate him over Valimaki as a prosepct.

 

he's got Karlsson like traits. Not saying he'll get there but that's his ceiling. I think his floor is Tyson Barrie but he looks better defensively. Basically, he's very, very good. The type of prospect teams don't tend to trade (but in the same breath Stone is not the type of player you typically trade either)

 

18 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ya man, two weeks ago the Sens were the ONLY sellers in the market.  That was the time to sell.  They had 5 or 6 buyers at that time.  Instead they pull this stunt "we are negotiating long term deals for Duchene and Stone".  Like who were they trying to fool?

 

Well if we are really digging into the process the time to trade these guys was last off-season. It was obvious Ottawa was going to be bad this year before they traded Karlsson and once they did that it was even more obvious. They should have had a fire sale last summer when all 30 teams could bid for these guys as IMO you should never wait to the TDL to move assets like Duchene and Stone. 

 

I think they are trying to fool the fan base into thinking they could actually have a good year this year but everyone outside of them is not that dumb. 

[cross16]

1 minute ago, MAC331 said:

I don't think Dorian was playing much of anything given were he ended up on Stone. He got more for Duchene. The Flames knew when to walk away, never a bad idea.

 

he got more quantity for Duchene but he got much better quality for Stone. Important difference there. 

[MAC331]

Just now, cross16 said:

 

he got more quantity for Duchene but he got much better quality for Stone. Important difference there. 

We will see. I haven't seen Brannstrom play but I have seen Valimaki play and IMO I have no problem BT walked away.

We may fall short of a SC this season however the needed experience and hunger will grow within this core.

I would like to see some serious changes to our top 9 before we head into the playoffs on Neal's return.

Gaudreau, Monahan, Neal

Tkachuk, Backlund, Lindholm

Bennett, Jankowski, Frolik

I believe these lines would provide us with our best chance to go the distance.

[redfire11]

2 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

What would you be comfortable paying Stone on an 8-year deal?

This is tough as when you start throwing around big numbers on a team every player on that team expects it. Just like we were doing when we were negotiating with JG and Mony. So we pay Stone 10.5 what are we going to have to pay Tkachuk? So now when we go into negotiations with tkachuk we can use JG and Mony's contracts as a base point 7.0 m not a Stones 10.5m base point. So to answer your question Draisaitl money 5-6 years at 8.5m Then Tkachuk at 7-7.5 at 6-8 years.

[conundrumed]

7 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

What would you be comfortable paying Stone on an 8-year deal?

I just don't see the necessity. 8 yrs takes him through 35 yo. 8 yrs on Tkachuk is more pressing. Plus, still able to shop in the offseason.

Winning TDL with the biggest fish does not equate to playoff success.

Plus, it sounds like Vegas and Stone have had a love affair since last off-season.

We're just too young in this run to get into all sorts of cap issues next year.

Moves we might want to make in the offseason become moves we'd have to make, not a good bargaining position.

[MAC331]

13 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I just don't see the necessity. 8 yrs takes him through 35 yo. 8 yrs on Tkachuk is more pressing. Plus, still able to shop in the offseason.

Winning TDL with the biggest fish does not equate to playoff success.

Plus, it sounds like Vegas and Stone have had a love affair since last off-season.

We're just too young in this run to get into all sorts of cap issues next year.

Moves we might want to make in the offseason become moves we'd have to make, not a good bargaining position.

Blessing in disguise we didn't end up with Stone.

BTW I think Nyquist ended up the better bargain traded yesterday

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

Lebrun explains how the Sens were about 30 mins away from the deal faling apart. Not to mention what a horrible look it is that the Sens had how much time to for them to NOT get a deal with Stone and yet the Knights get it done in 30 mins. 

 

I'm honesty not sure the Sens can repair their image with Melnyk around. 

 

https://www.nicholsonhockey.com/archives/2019/2/26/lebrun-explains-last-minute-stone-trade-details

 

Dorion said they knew Friday they were out on a Stone deal.

Saturday through Monday, and they can't hammer out a deal where they get more than a bottom 6 guy. a single draft pick and a top rated prospect?  Seems inept to me.  Blew the process by asking too much.  Teams moved on, and the only other bid was CGY?  Supposedly all kinds of team in the discussion, yet they only managed to work last minute with one team?

 

I don't think they made an honest offer to Stone.  They said they did and floated the numbers out there.  And the message to the team was that the team would suck for years and then start spending to the cap.  This coming from the owner.  They could have made the decision months ago about and had 6 more teams making offers.  It's not like they just started sucking.

 

Anyway, VGK made out like bandits and still have 1st and 2nds in 2019 and 2020.  Two extra picks in the 3rd and 5th this year and another 2nd next year.  They used the pick they got from DAL in the deal for Stone.

 

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

I just don't see the necessity. 8 yrs takes him through 35 yo. 8 yrs on Tkachuk is more pressing. Plus, still able to shop in the offseason.

Winning TDL with the biggest fish does not equate to playoff success.

Plus, it sounds like Vegas and Stone have had a love affair since last off-season.

We're just too young in this run to get into all sorts of cap issues next year.

Moves we might want to make in the offseason become moves we'd have to make, not a good bargaining position.

 

Fair.  Personally I would only want to pay $9+ to a Center.  It's the more important position to wing.  

[conundrumed]

18 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Fair.  Personally I would only want to pay $9+ to a Center.  It's the more important position to wing.  

Yeah $9.5 for 8 years for Stone is Matthews money considering the tax difference.

Good player, but man that is a commitment.

There'll be more and perhaps better ways to improve in the offseason.

I liked BT's managing the deadline and deciding beforehand what they weren't going to do.

It's one big poker game.

Hopefully the only boost we needed was showing faith in the guys we have.

[travel_dude]

8 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Yeah $9.5 for 8 years for Stone is Matthews money considering the tax difference.

Good player, but man that is a commitment.

There'll be more and perhaps better ways to improve in the offseason.

I liked BT's managing the deadline and deciding beforehand what they weren't going to do.

It's one big poker game.

Hopefully the only boost we needed was showing faith in the guys we have.

 

You should probably stay away from playing poker against a guy in Vegas.

If McPhee wasn't in it, we might have done the deal wothout Valimaki.

The again, that's a big contract to swallow.

You have to get rid of a guy like Bennett + Frolik, just to wind up behind.

Leaves little for another goalie next year.

 

Vegas is going for it.  If they need to trade Stone in the future, they will get a better return than Dorion got.

In fact, they probably have to make some trades next seaosn.  $79m with Karlsson not re-signed and Bellemare a pending UFA.

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

My guess is that Frolik would probably go the other way in that deal and the difference in salary is about $1.4m so we could have handled it fairly easily. 

 

I was kind of wondering if Frolik was looking to go to another situation and Treliving thought he had a deal to not only help out Frolik, but to upgrade him with Zucker, and then the deal fell apart.

 

A chart about Zucker:

 

[The_People1]

33 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Yeah $9.5 for 8 years for Stone is Matthews money considering the tax difference.

Good player, but man that is a commitment.

There'll be more and perhaps better ways to improve in the offseason.

I liked BT's managing the deadline and deciding beforehand what they weren't going to do.

It's one big poker game.

Hopefully the only boost we needed was showing faith in the guys we have.

 

Ya and I mentioned this before too.  We are in a unique situation this season where we are the team to beat.  We can afford to sit tight.  We forced WPG, NSH, SJ, and VGK to give up their future to one up us.  

[conundrumed]

21 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

You should probably stay away from playing poker against a guy in Vegas.

If McPhee wasn't in it, we might have done the deal wothout Valimaki.

The again, that's a big contract to swallow.

You have to get rid of a guy like Bennett + Frolik, just to wind up behind.

Leaves little for another goalie next year.

 

Vegas is going for it.  If they need to trade Stone in the future, they will get a better return than Dorion got.

In fact, they probably have to make some trades next seaosn.  $79m with Karlsson not re-signed and Bellemare a pending UFA.

Vegas is a very press-the-pace team. I'm assuming Stone will need an adjustment period.

But at that price in UFA even, I simply think that's too much.

[conundrumed]

10 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ya and I mentioned this before too.  We are in a unique situation this season where we are the team to beat.  We can afford to sit tight.  We forced WPG, NSH, SJ, and VGK to give up their future to one up us.  

Even Hayes for a 1st and Lemieux seems like an overpay to me.

I just don't think he's very good. Another player stepping up (on a team without much O) in a contract yr always sets off my buyer beware alarm.

One deal I thought was good was Granlund for Fiala. I think what that deal is is 2 players whose teams weren't happy with them so it was best for both players.

Nyquist for 2 late 2nds, whatevs. Gives SJS 3 scoring lines I guess. Karlsson out, goaltending suspect.