New vs Old

[kehatch]

As of Nov 2, 2018

 

Lindholm (14GP 9-5-14) vs Ferland (12 GP 7-4-11)

 

Flames are happy with Lindholm who is leading the team in goals and is a point per game player. He is also winning face offs and making the top line at least a little responsible defensively. But Ferland is also leading his team in goals and operating a almost a PPG pace, and he adds a physical edge the Flames miss. 

 

I don't know what Ferland is. I still see him as a passenger in the top 6 and I expect his production will fall off at some point. But if it doesn't the Flames will regret losing him. 

 

Neal (14 GP 3-1-4) vs Brouwer (10 GP 1-1-2) 

 

Neal should be the clear winner here. But so far that isn't the case. When you consider his age and salary his early season struggles are scary. That said, I fully expect him to come around and Brouwer to continue to be Brouwer. 

 

Ryan (13 GP 1-2-3) vs Stajan (68 GP 4-8-12 last season) 

 

This is another one that should be a clear upgrade but hasn't been so far. In fact, given Ryan's lack of defensive play Stajan may have been a slight upgrade. This is another one where the contract and age could be scary, but unlike Neal I am less positive Ryan will come around. 

 

Hanafin (14 GP 0-3-3) vs Hamilton (12 GP 2-3-5) 

 

Neither player is off to a great (or poor) start. Given where each player is at with their development this isn't a fair comparison anyway. But the Flames do need a bit more from Hanafin who has struggled at times in the top 4.

 

Czarnik (8 GP 1-2-3) vs Versteeg (24 GP 3-5-8 last season) 

 

Czarnik looked great in the preseason but has struggled a bit in the regular season. He has been a healthy scratch as of late. But Versteeg wasn't able to stay healthy and wasn't great when he was. We do miss him on the power play though. 

 

Andersson (12 GP 0-1-1) vs Kulak (71 GP 2-6-8 last season) 

 

Kulak is in the AHL and Andersson has had time on the top pairing. This has clearly been an upgrade and has given Flames fans something to be excited about. Honourable mention to Valimaki here as well. 

 

Dube (13 GP 0-2-2) vs Jagr (24 GP 3-5-8 last season) 

 

This one is a bit of a leap given Jagr's brief time with the Flames and the entirely different situation both players are in. But Dube has given the Flames some energy, defensive smarts, and speed that Jagr didn't have in his final NHL season. 

[CheersMan]

How do you not take the player on the left every single time. The only player on the right I miss is Ferland but you have to give to get and I'm not convinced Ferland is going to have a long career anyways. That sums up just some of the work BT has done recently. Could insert BP vs GG as well but GG was Tree's mistake anyways.  Gotta like it so far.

[kehatch]

4 minutes ago, CheersMan said:

How do you not take the player on the left every single time. The only player on the right I miss is Ferland but you have to give to get and I'm not convinced Ferland is going to have a long career anyways. That sums up just some of the work BT has done recently. Could insert BP vs GG as well but GG was Tree's mistake anyways.  Gotta like it so far.

 

Hamilton is the better right now. I apprecitate (and agree with) the reasons for the trade and am not trying to restart that debate. But player for player Hamilton is better, at least right now. 

[CheersMan]

2 minutes ago, kehatch said:

 

Hamilton is the better right now. I apprecitate (and agree with) the reasons for the trade and am not trying to restart that debate. But player for player Hamilton is better, at least right now. 

Sure, but that was a 2 for 2 deal. I'm not missing DH. He was no where to be found last year until they put him on the PP, but a game is 60 min long.

[The_People1]

I think Hanifin is better right now than when Hamilton first arrived here.  That is to say, Hamilton is indeed a better player right now but Hanifin projects to be just as good if not better.

 

Hamilton developed well with the Flames and I feel his defensive game has become very underrated.  From a pure shutdown perspective, he's solid.  He mainly hurts his team on breakouts by making bad decisions and high risk passes.  Otherwise, if you need a shut down RD, Hamilton is dependable.

 

In terms of the other comparisons, Czarnik and Ryan haven't translated a good preseason into the regular season.  It's at the point where there's no reason to believe they will score 10-goals each this season.  Dube is still getting chances so I think he just needs one goal to open the flood gates.  And I don't miss Versteeg on the PP.  I felt he was a big reason we were so bad on the PP last season.

 

I also think Valimaki vs Kulak is a more fair comparison considering both LD bottom pair.  Andersson has played himself onto the top pair on some nights.  And in terms of Valimaki, he looks too raw.  He's been okay but I think he could benefit with 25-minutes a night in the AHL in all situations, instead of 12-minutes at the NHL level.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

I think Hanifin is better right now than when Hamilton first arrived here.  That is to say, Hamilton is indeed a better player right now but Hanifin projects to be just as good if not better.

 

Hamilton developed well with the Flames and I feel his defensive game has become very underrated.  From a pure shutdown perspective, he's solid.  He mainly hurts his team on breakouts by making bad decisions and high risk passes.  Otherwise, if you need a shut down RD, Hamilton is dependable.

 

In terms of the other comparisons, Czarnik and Ryan haven't translated a good preseason into the regular season.  It's at the point where there's no reason to believe they will score 10-goals each this season.  Dube is still getting chances so I think he just needs one goal to open the flood gates.  And I don't miss Versteeg on the PP.  I felt he was a big reason we were so bad on the PP last season.

 

I also think Valimaki vs Kulak is a more fair comparison considering both LD bottom pair.  Andersson has played himself onto the top pair on some nights.  And in terms of Valimaki, he looks too raw.  He's been okay but I think he could benefit with 25-minutes a night in the AHL in all situations, instead of 12-minutes at the NHL level.

So you would rather Stone or Prout on 3rd pairing? 25 min/game in the A is fine but it doesnt tell you if the player can make the jump to the bigs. I think Valamaki has been doing quite well so far and theres no reason to think he's going to drop off at any time.

[cccsberg]

7 hours ago, kehatch said:

 

Hamilton is the better right now. I apprecitate (and agree with) the reasons for the trade and am not trying to restart that debate. But player for player Hamilton is better, at least right now. 

Offensively, slightly.  Overall, no.

[ABC923]

Just a couple notes.

 

1. Small sample size.  Neal, Ryan and Czarnik are off to rough starts, but we should allow for more of an adjustment period.  It’s rare for someone to walk in to a new team and excel the way Lindholm has.  And while I wasn’t a huge fan of the Neal deal (too long and expensive imo), he doesn’t actively hurt you when on the ice.  The same generally could not be said of Brouwer most nights.

 

2. No question that Hamilton is better than Hanifin right now.  But it seems to me that Gio has stepped up his game so far this season, which makes me wonder if Hamilton wasn’t a great defensive partner for him.  Both Brodie and Anderson seem to give Gio more confidence to be his awesome self (although maybe that’s the result of being the unquestionable top offensive player on the backend again).

[Thebrewcrew]

Really like the idea of the comparison thread, nice!

 

Ferland vs Lindholm is the toughest one and I still make the move every time. I will always cheer for Ferland as I think he is a great guy but Lindholm being a versatile right shot brings an element this team hasn’t had in ages and so far it’s worked great for both sides.

 

Hanifin vs Hamilton is tough as Hamilton is the plbetter player at the momen given the age disparity. That said if there’s any Hockey News subscribers out there, in the latest issue they did a comparison breaking down Hanifin vs Hamilton and who they would take if given the choice and they ultimately settled on Hanifin.

[MAC331]

13 hours ago, kehatch said:

As of Nov 2, 2018

 

Lindholm (14GP 9-5-14) vs Ferland (12 GP 7-4-11)

 

Flames are happy with Lindholm who is leading the team in goals and is a point per game player. He is also winning face offs and making the top line at least a little responsible defensively. But Ferland is also leading his team in goals and operating a almost a PPG pace, and he adds a physical edge the Flames miss. 

 

I don't know what Ferland is. I still see him as a passenger in the top 6 and I expect his production will fall off at some point. But if it doesn't the Flames will regret losing him. 

 

Neal (14 GP 3-1-4) vs Brouwer (10 GP 1-1-2) 

 

Neal should be the clear winner here. But so far that isn't the case. When you consider his age and salary his early season struggles are scary. That said, I fully expect him to come around and Brouwer to continue to be Brouwer. 

 

Ryan (13 GP 1-2-3) vs Stajan (68 GP 4-8-12 last season) 

 

This is another one that should be a clear upgrade but hasn't been so far. In fact, given Ryan's lack of defensive play Stajan may have been a slight upgrade. This is another one where the contract and age could be scary, but unlike Neal I am less positive Ryan will come around. 

 

Hanafin (14 GP 0-3-3) vs Hamilton (12 GP 2-3-5) 

 

Neither player is off to a great (or poor) start. Given where each player is at with their development this isn't a fair comparison anyway. But the Flames do need a bit more from Hanafin who has struggled at times in the top 4.

 

Czarnik (8 GP 1-2-3) vs Versteeg (24 GP 3-5-8 last season) 

 

Czarnik looked great in the preseason but has struggled a bit in the regular season. He has been a healthy scratch as of late. But Versteeg wasn't able to stay healthy and wasn't great when he was. We do miss him on the power play though. 

 

Andersson (12 GP 0-1-1) vs Kulak (71 GP 2-6-8 last season) 

 

Kulak is in the AHL and Andersson has had time on the top pairing. This has clearly been an upgrade and has given Flames fans something to be excited about. Honourable mention to Valimaki here as well. 

 

Dube (13 GP 0-2-2) vs Jagr (24 GP 3-5-8 last season) 

 

This one is a bit of a leap given Jagr's brief time with the Flames and the entirely different situation both players are in. But Dube has given the Flames some energy, defensive smarts, and speed that Jagr didn't have in his final NHL season. 

I see the Hamilton trade as an accommodation to move Brodie to the RS and Hanifin as an upgrade to Brodie for our LSD.

Ferland I would take back in a heartbeat for our 3rd line LW. This line up could use his presence.

Should it not be more like Czarnik vs Brouwer given Brouwer was no more than a 4th line player when bought out.

Valimaki vs Kulak is the proper comparison and Valimaki is definitely the better player.

Dube is more like replacing Lazar not Jagr or even Versteeg, definite upgrade on all 3.

Andersson could be better than all of Brodie, Hamonic or Stone if he keeps playing the way he has been.

[YounGuns]

I think one thing to remember here is the old saying "the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts".  And that certainly applies here.

 

I appreciate what you're doing here Kehatch, in trying to place direct comparables in laying out players in a 1-to-1 approach, and I also agree with CheersMan that we kinda need to include BP vs GG in that, but one thing to me that jumps off the page this year is the "team game".  I don't know if it's necessarily the new style Peter has preached, or that Peters demands more from his players, or the up-tempo practices translating into a quicker game...I'm sure that's all part of it, but I think it goes deeper than that.  There's something qualitative - not just quantitative - here that has changed with this team.  What I mean by that is there appears to be more to the "sight test" here; the team's improved "play", or "hope", or "character" or "expectations" or whatever you want to call it, that can't be objectively measured and is more subjectively realized.

There's just something about this team this year that is better, and I think it's "more than the sum of it's parts", in that it's more than the improvements we made in this category, or that category, and if we won this trade or that trade, or this that and the other thing.  The guys seem more confident this year, more cohesive, they seem quicker, they seem more talented...the only big question mark is Smith's play, but even then last year when Smith didn't play well we lost the game.  This year when Smith doesn't play well we have the talent and cohesiveness and confidence to win anyways.

 

So I like the topic, and "zooming in" to examine the individual pieces and changes, but more importantly I like the product of those pieces, when I "zoom out" to appreciate the whole.

 

The thing for me is I think we're only getting started here.  It's a new coach, with new players coming into their new teammates, new surroundings, and all the challenges that exist not only on the ice but in their personal and family lives as well - which certainly impact how a player's head space is, which directly impacts their game - so I always thought there would be speed bumps initially.  But it seems recently we've found a new gear, and gosh I hope this is only our 3rd gear and that Peters guides this team to finally realize they still have another 3 gears to find before we reach top speed...