robrob74 Posted December 30, 2018 Report Share Posted December 30, 2018 10 minutes ago, travel_dude said: My issue with Bennett has to do with what he does wth the puck. The line is no longer dangerous with Backlund and Bennett. Pick one or both for the reason. What I see is a line that can;t seem to connect on passes, drops the puck to nobody, gets shots away at the goalie's center mass or one guy tries to single handedly go through two players. The 3M line was something else, this is nothing close to it. Maybe Frolik is struggling too, but he has more goals than Backs and Benny. Maybe my expectation changed about Tkachuk, but I see him struggling to generate stuff 5v5 now. The line isn;t as much of a threat as it used to be. Maybe I'm just sour. Ya, I’d agree a little. Tkachuk has been good on the PP. he hasn’t really brought his line mates into the trenches like he has in the past. Is that because his line hasn’t been moving forward like it had in the past? Has splitting up the 3M line had that much affect on them? i think they need to get a 2nd line going here. I think you gotta do something. 51 minutes ago, Heartbreaker said: While I don't agree with you fellas on Bennett, I do wholly agree on Backlund. This year his offence is non-existent. It's only a problem because they keep playing him in an offensive role - I'd bump him to the third line, and move Jankowski up. Love. Maybe IT IS move Jankowski with Tkachuk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted December 30, 2018 Report Share Posted December 30, 2018 Problem with increasing jankowskis ice time is he's one of the worst flame forward in his own end. Hard to give him more ice time without walking into a matchup problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted December 31, 2018 Report Share Posted December 31, 2018 18 hours ago, cross16 said: Problem with increasing jankowskis ice time is he's one of the worst flame forward in his own end. Hard to give him more ice time without walking into a matchup problem. I’ve been saying for a year with next to no one agreeing that he’s our worst defensive zone C. It really is that obvious: He’s being used perfectly now imho. Don’t give him more than he can handle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted December 31, 2018 Report Share Posted December 31, 2018 18 hours ago, cross16 said: Problem with increasing jankowskis ice time is he's one of the worst flame forward in his own end. Hard to give him more ice time without walking into a matchup problem. So how does Jankowski get better ? Would playing with Tkachuk make him better ? Jankowski and Bennett are the most improved players this season over last yet they remain out of place IMO. Bennett on LW did very well with Backlund and Frolik before Tkachuk arrived, try that again. Wouldn't it be better to get all of Tkachuk, Bennett, Jankowski and Neal going much better than worrying about one player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted December 31, 2018 Report Share Posted December 31, 2018 14 minutes ago, conundrumed said: I’ve been saying for a year with next to no one agreeing that he’s our worst defensive zone C. It really is that obvious: He’s being used perfectly now imho. Don’t give him more than he can handle. That is a lame excuse not to give him better wingers and more ice time. Maybe he gets better by playing with Tkachuk, maybe his 200ft game keeps getting better. I don't see why we keep wanting to hold guys back rather than put them in better situations to succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
420since1974 Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 I feel that Dube should be up next for the Backlund/Frolik bump. It worked for Bouma, Bennett, & Tkachuk. I'm certainly not looking to staple Bennett on the 4th line permanently, but I'd like to try out the first 3 lines for at least a few games. Gaudreau - Monahan - Neal (let's get Neal going with the original plan that he was signed for) Tkachuk - Jankowski - Lindholm (Jankowski and Lindholm each take their strong side FOs) Dube - Backlund - Frolik (all 3 can take FOs) Bennett- Ryan - Hathaway (speed + crash & bash) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 45 minutes ago, 420since1974 said: I feel that Dube should be up next for the Backlund/Frolik bump. It worked for Bouma, Bennett, & Tkachuk. I'm certainly not looking to staple Bennett on the 4th line permanently, but I'd like to try out the first 3 lines for at least a few games. Gaudreau - Monahan - Neal (let's get Neal going with the original plan that he was signed for) Tkachuk - Jankowski - Lindholm (Jankowski and Lindholm each take their strong side FOs) Dube - Backlund - Frolik (all 3 can take FOs) Bennett- Ryan - Hathaway (speed + crash & bash) I'm good with this. I would deploy that 1st line to see if they do as good as the current version. Maybe not every night, as you could flip Neal and Lindholm without impacting the other lines at all. Dube gets shots off, but I feel sometimes he needs to be on rushes to be more effective. He's not a grinder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 Looks like the 3M line is still the 3M line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 2 hours ago, conundrumed said: Looks like the 3M line is still the 3M line. Its what I like about this year’s team, they seem to have each other’s backs. They stepped up for Frolik as a line tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 7 hours ago, conundrumed said: Looks like the 3M line is still the 3M line. It's amazing that going back to a line that has worked every year they were together has a good game. Backlund is the coffee, Frolik the sweetener and Tkachuk the Baileys Irish Cream that give the drink a kick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 I don’t think there’s much to change. With Neal, he’s playing a heavy puck support game. Always the second guy in to win a battle. So that’s likely where his scoring is down, so that’s fine. Need Bennett to keep his shots low for rebounds/bank-ins. Ryan would score more if he’d stop the catch and release. Dube has thread him some beauties but he always stops the puck before shooting. That extra second or 2 is allowing goalies to react. I think Dube needs to be on PP2. His passing and vision is way up there on this roster. Start trying him in JG’s PP1 role (on PP2). He’s the closest thing we have to JG’s style of play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 32 minutes ago, conundrumed said: I don’t think there’s much to change. With Neal, he’s playing a heavy puck support game. Always the second guy in to win a battle. So that’s likely where his scoring is down, so that’s fine. Need Bennett to keep his shots low for rebounds/bank-ins. Ryan would score more if he’d stop the catch and release. Dube has thread him some beauties but he always stops the puck before shooting. That extra second or 2 is allowing goalies to react. I think Dube needs to be on PP2. His passing and vision is way up there on this roster. Start trying him in JG’s PP1 role (on PP2). He’s the closest thing we have to JG’s style of play. Fair assessment. I do think they need to rework the entire 2nd PP unit. Backlund without 3M isn't very threatening. Even Backs without Tkachuk is less than stellar. Start with Ras-Hanifin. Need to have skating and a heavy shot for a traditional setup. Spoon feed one timers to Ras and Neal (right circle). Ryan or Janko in the middle for crease presence and to win O-zone faceoffs. Dube (assumng he can do the role) on half boards. I look at time used and production. Backlund zero PPP. Ryan and Hanifin 4 PPP each. Ras has been on for EN man advantages and performed stellar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 22 hours ago, MAC331 said: That is a lame excuse not to give him better wingers and more ice time. Maybe he gets better by playing with Tkachuk, maybe his 200ft game keeps getting better. I don't see why we keep wanting to hold guys back rather than put them in better situations to succeed. It’s not holding him back, he’s playing an important role where he can succeed and is doing well. Imho, we get better by sticking to a plan, not constantly shuffling based on any one player’s play. I think Bennett-Jankowski-Neal will be very good if allowed to grow. I don’t see a pt in breaking up 3M and think BP’s utilization is typically well thought out. I’m with Burke though on sitting the 1st line when we’re up by enough in the 3rd. Letting the other 3 lines close it out is a great confidence builder. Every team gets dirty when the game gets out of reach. Even us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 45 minutes ago, conundrumed said: It’s not holding him back, he’s playing an important role where he can succeed and is doing well. Imho, we get better by sticking to a plan, not constantly shuffling based on any one player’s play. I think Bennett-Jankowski-Neal will be very good if allowed to grow. I don’t see a pt in breaking up 3M and think BP’s utilization is typically well thought out. I’m with Burke though on sitting the 1st line when we’re up by enough in the 3rd. Letting the other 3 lines close it out is a great confidence builder. Every team gets dirty when the game gets out of reach. Even us. You keep your thoughts and I will keep mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going4TheCup Posted January 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 The Real Deal James Neal will now start scoring more goals since he scored last night and help the offense out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 5 hours ago, travel_dude said: It's amazing that going back to a line that has worked every year they were together has a good game. Backlund is the coffee, Frolik the sweetener and Tkachuk the Baileys Irish Cream that give the drink a kick. Theyve done well together in a game this year before but then went quiet the next game. BP didn’t go back to them. Now, if they can step up and continue to be a threat, that will be huge for this team. I dont know if it was the team we played that got a rise out if everyone or if it was the lineup, but it looked pretty decent last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 4 hours ago, conundrumed said: It’s not holding him back, he’s playing an important role where he can succeed and is doing well. Imho, we get better by sticking to a plan, not constantly shuffling based on any one player’s play. I think Bennett-Jankowski-Neal will be very good if allowed to grow. I don’t see a pt in breaking up 3M and think BP’s utilization is typically well thought out. I’m with Burke though on sitting the 1st line when we’re up by enough in the 3rd. Letting the other 3 lines close it out is a great confidence builder. Every team gets dirty when the game gets out of reach. Even us. You will be happy to know that is exactly what they did last night. Top line wasn;t on the ice after 16:48 Dube played very little in the 2nd (3 shifts), but more in the 1st and 3rd. 5 shifts each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 A common complaint seems to be that the Flames are a 1 line team and outside of that they'll be easy to shutdown. Seeing some interesting data on this that does not seem to support that conclusions. Chart shows goals by forwards that are not your in your top 4. Flames are just outside the top 10 If you expand this to outside the top 5 goal scores, they drop to 15th in terms of goal. May small concern could be that if you change it to points, they are 7th last in the league (again outside their top 5 point producing forwards). None of this includes the D where they have one of the best point producers in the league. Can see a chart demonstrating this from an article written about the Dallas Stars and their depth issues. Long story short, I think the depth scoring issue is getting very overblown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 44 minutes ago, cross16 said: A common complaint seems to be that the Flames are a 1 line team and outside of that they'll be easy to shutdown. Seeing some interesting data on this that does not seem to support that conclusions. Chart shows goals by forwards that are not your in your top 4. Flames are just outside the top 10 If you expand this to outside the top 5 goal scores, they drop to 15th in terms of goal. May small concern could be that if you change it to points, they are 7th last in the league (again outside their top 5 point producing forwards). None of this includes the D where they have one of the best point producers in the league. Can see a chart demonstrating this from an article written about the Dallas Stars and their depth issues. Long story short, I think the depth scoring issue is getting very overblown. Maybe for now but as games become more intense towards the playoff runs we will need some consistent secondary scoring in order to keep improving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 2 hours ago, cross16 said: A common complaint seems to be that the Flames are a 1 line team and outside of that they'll be easy to shutdown. Seeing some interesting data on this that does not seem to support that conclusions. Chart shows goals by forwards that are not your in your top 4. Flames are just outside the top 10 If you expand this to outside the top 5 goal scores, they drop to 15th in terms of goal. May small concern could be that if you change it to points, they are 7th last in the league (again outside their top 5 point producing forwards). None of this includes the D where they have one of the best point producers in the league. Can see a chart demonstrating this from an article written about the Dallas Stars and their depth issues. Long story short, I think the depth scoring issue is getting very overblown. I think this is a time where you look at stats and you can be fooled. On blow outs where the other teams didn’t play D the depth scored. When games get tight and the first line gets shut down there is less secondary & tertiary scoring. the depth has looked good at times, but a lot of the time horrible in the sense that it is a jumble and hardly any chemistry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 2 hours ago, cross16 said: A common complaint seems to be that the Flames are a 1 line team and outside of that they'll be easy to shutdown. Seeing some interesting data on this that does not seem to support that conclusions. Chart shows goals by forwards that are not your in your top 4. Flames are just outside the top 10 If you expand this to outside the top 5 goal scores, they drop to 15th in terms of goal. May small concern could be that if you change it to points, they are 7th last in the league (again outside their top 5 point producing forwards). None of this includes the D where they have one of the best point producers in the league. Can see a chart demonstrating this from an article written about the Dallas Stars and their depth issues. Long story short, I think the depth scoring issue is getting very overblown. I think this is a time where you look at stats and you can be fooled. On blow outs where the other teams didn’t play D the depth scored. When games get tight and the first line gets shut down there is less secondary & tertiary scoring. the depth has looked good at times, but a lot of the time horrible in the sense that it is a jumble and hardly any chemistry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 Just now, robrob74 said: I think this is a time where you look at stats and you can be fooled. On blow outs where the other teams didn’t play D the depth scored. When games get tight and the first line gets shut down there is less secondary & tertiary scoring. the depth has looked good at times, but a lot of the time horrible in the sense that it is a jumble and hardly any chemistry. Flames beat Vegas 7-2. They got 1 goal from a forward outside the top line (Bennett) Flames beat Arizona 6-1. 2 goals from Jankowski Flames beat St Louis 7-2. Got 2 goals from Quine. More food for thought. While the Flames appear to be a great offensive team, they are only 12th best when it comes to 5 on 5 scoring rates. Their PP is what gets them the rest of the way and the scoring there is very concentrated to the number 1 unit. Not sure I agree with the conclusion that anyone is being fooled here. I think the issue here is what is the benchmark and what are people expecting? I think the Flames have average depth and that's what the numbers show but it seems me people have a much higher benchmark as to what average scoring depth in this league. Your last sentence can describe probably over half the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 1 hour ago, cross16 said: Flames beat Vegas 7-2. They got 1 goal from a forward outside the top line (Bennett) Flames beat Arizona 6-1. 2 goals from Jankowski Flames beat St Louis 7-2. Got 2 goals from Quine. More food for thought. While the Flames appear to be a great offensive team, they are only 12th best when it comes to 5 on 5 scoring rates. Their PP is what gets them the rest of the way and the scoring there is very concentrated to the number 1 unit. Not sure I agree with the conclusion that anyone is being fooled here. I think the issue here is what is the benchmark and what are people expecting? I think the Flames have average depth and that's what the numbers show but it seems me people have a much higher benchmark as to what average scoring depth in this league. Your last sentence can describe probably over half the league. This is a group relatively new to each other and should get better in some areas as the season goes on. Lots of good things happening and as the saying goes " you have to be good to be lucky and lucky to be good" we are some of each right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 2 hours ago, cross16 said: Flames beat Vegas 7-2. They got 1 goal from a forward outside the top line (Bennett) Flames beat Arizona 6-1. 2 goals from Jankowski Flames beat St Louis 7-2. Got 2 goals from Quine. More food for thought. While the Flames appear to be a great offensive team, they are only 12th best when it comes to 5 on 5 scoring rates. Their PP is what gets them the rest of the way and the scoring there is very concentrated to the number 1 unit. Not sure I agree with the conclusion that anyone is being fooled here. I think the issue here is what is the benchmark and what are people expecting? I think the Flames have average depth and that's what the numbers show but it seems me people have a much higher benchmark as to what average scoring depth in this league. Your last sentence can describe probably over half the league. Our team as it stands now isn’t good enough to win the cup this year if it continues, especially with your consensus on the bottom half and the similarities to most of the league. It’s precisely why most of the league doesn’t win the cup. Youre probably right about what other’s expectations are. Mine are high and I want to see a complete team. Like Mac has said a lot, it is getting worked out. i liked the game last night. The team played well. It goes to show that if the 2nd line gets going it makes the first line just as or more dangerous. The 3rd line looked pretty good too. We all want the Flames to win the cup. I am loving the first line. Johnny has been unbelievable and Monahan is following Johnny’s pace. It’s awesome. If they can figure out the rest of the lines I think we’ve got something. We are already competing against the big guns. Now it’s just time to bury the little ones. The need to get up for every game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 32 minutes ago, robrob74 said: Our team as it stands now isn’t good enough to win the cup this year if it continues, especially with your consensus on the bottom half and the similarities to most of the league. It’s precisely why most of the league doesn’t win the cup. I don't know if we are a contender or not, but that's more the questions in nets. We have enough talent, just haven;t fixed the 2nd unit PP yet or got consistent scoring. Janko, Bennett, Backlund, Frolik, Neal have yet to break out. They are looking good. All we would need to become a top scoring team is to fix a few of those. Most of that relates to 5v5 scoring. Top line is fine for that, and even Tkachuk is doing fine. Just need the other guys to get going. I'm not sure that's such a big deal to make happen. Just need to continue building on games. We are a rebuilt team on almost every line. Takes time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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