conundrumed Posted October 11, 2018 Report Share Posted October 11, 2018 14 minutes ago, kehatch said: Neal doesn't drive a line. He compliments the right line very well. If the third line doesn't get going they need to try something. Putting him on the top line is the most obvious option if Lindholm cools off. I have liked the idea of Tkachuk-Bennett-Neal as a second line since the summer. I also don't mind Lindholm in place of Bennett. But so far the coach has been reluctant to put either of those guys at C, and I expect Bennett would need to take a step forward before the coach would even consider him on a line like that. But if you can turn one of those into a second line then you have Backlund for the third and that makes you very deep. Neal's been looking like the slowest guy on the team imho. Let's not get slower to accommodate him. I'm thinking putting him on the 1st RW is Ferland. He can't get to where he needs to be when he needs to be there. Lindholm, so far, has proven he can. Let's ride the young and fast while it's showing success. Not accommodate by slowing things down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebrewcrew Posted October 11, 2018 Report Share Posted October 11, 2018 I'm not too worried about Neal. Slow start, sure, but the bottom 6 is still looking to find traction. Yeah he's not the most fleet of foot, but the puck explodes off his stick. I believe we will be talking about a guy in the 20 goal range at seasons end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted October 11, 2018 Report Share Posted October 11, 2018 15 minutes ago, conundrumed said: Neal's been looking like the slowest guy on the team imho. Let's not get slower to accommodate him. I'm thinking putting him on the 1st RW is Ferland. He can't get to where he needs to be when he needs to be there. Lindholm, so far, has proven he can. Let's ride the young and fast while it's showing success. Not accommodate by slowing things down. i don't think Neal is as slow as you suggest. I think that some of those guys have the ability to skate faster, but are slower to manage energy. Monahan is the same way. I do agree with you that Lindholm brings speed to the first line, and I have been whining for some time that Johnny needs that. It sure looks like it is working to me. We now have a fully functioning first line, and it is difficult to defend against. If the opposition targets Johnny, they leave Lindholm free. Monahan is able to adjust well to most players. I hope that they continue to improve and grow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouCifer Posted October 11, 2018 Report Share Posted October 11, 2018 54 minutes ago, kehatch said: Neal doesn't drive a line. He compliments the right line very well. If the third line doesn't get going they need to try something. Putting him on the top line is the most obvious option if Lindholm cools off. That’s exactly what I’m saying. I used Backlund’s line as an example of a possible fit because Neal wouldn’t have to drive it at all. He could just be a finisher. Quote I have liked the idea of Tkachuk-Bennett-Neal as a second line since the summer. I also don't mind Lindholm in place of Bennett. But so far the coach has been reluctant to put either of those guys at C, and I expect Bennett would need to take a step forward before the coach would even consider him on a line like that. But if you can turn one of those into a second line then you have Backlund for the third and that makes you very deep. Thats a lot of sandpaper on 1 line! But I can see the potential there. I agree BP may be reluctant to put a line like that together, but like you I’m trying to figure out if there’s a way to strengthen our line depth. I’ve begun to like the idea of forward “pairings” the last couple of seasons because it affords you the ability to always have 2 forwards on the ice with chemistry, and then you can augment each line by adding/switching the third player to change the dynamic of any line. I’ll take a quick stab at potential forward “pairings” so maybe we can identify what’s (who’s) left to add to each. Mony-Johnny. Obvious Backlund-Frolik. They have chemistry and I want to free up Tkachuk for a pairing Lindholm-Neal. Just because I suggested it earlier Tkachuk-Bennett. Maybe these two could work? Who would you pair up Kehatch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted October 11, 2018 Report Share Posted October 11, 2018 1 hour ago, kehatch said: Neal doesn't drive a line. He compliments the right line very well. If the third line doesn't get going they need to try something. Putting him on the top line is the most obvious option if Lindholm cools off. I have liked the idea of Tkachuk-Bennett-Neal as a second line since the summer. I also don't mind Lindholm in place of Bennett. But so far the coach has been reluctant to put either of those guys at C, and I expect Bennett would need to take a step forward before the coach would even consider him on a line like that. But if you can turn one of those into a second line then you have Backlund for the third and that makes you very deep. If you are going Tkachuk-Lindholm-Neal, then who do you have left to play top line RW. Don't say Ryan. I would prefer to move Neal to be with Tkachuk and Backlund. Tkachuk is feeding Backlund, to no avail. Neal would not make that line any slower and could give Tkachuk rebound chances with pucks actually hitting the net. I like the combination; a gritty, go to the net guy with skills, a passer with sound defense, and a shooter. No reason why Czarnik couldn;t drive the 3rd line with 2 of Janko, Dube and Bennett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted October 11, 2018 Report Share Posted October 11, 2018 What I don't get with Neal is why he's not on the top unit PP? He doesn't need to be fast on the PP. We get setup and he instantly becomes a scoring threat. I would prefer him there over Lindholm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7wit Posted October 11, 2018 Report Share Posted October 11, 2018 2 hours ago, kehatch said: Neal doesn't drive a line. He compliments the right line very well. If the third line doesn't get going they need to try something. Putting him on the top line is the most obvious option if Lindholm cools off. I have liked the idea of Tkachuk-Bennett-Neal as a second line since the summer. I also don't mind Lindholm in place of Bennett. But so far the coach has been reluctant to put either of those guys at C, and I expect Bennett would need to take a step forward before the coach would even consider him on a line like that. But if you can turn one of those into a second line then you have Backlund for the third and that makes you very deep. So then something like Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm Tkachuk-Bennett-Neal Dube-Backlund-Czarnik Frolik-Jankowski-Ryan This would definitely spread out the scoring. Frolik and Czarnik could be interchangeable. I wonder if all these guys click together? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted October 11, 2018 Report Share Posted October 11, 2018 6 hours ago, 7wit said: So then something like Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm Tkachuk-Bennett-Neal Dube-Backlund-Czarnik Frolik-Jankowski-Ryan This would definitely spread out the scoring. Frolik and Czarnik could be interchangeable. I wonder if all these guys click together? I would swap Frolik and Dube. But otherwise that would be my lines. But Bennett is going to need to get a few points before the Flames move him up let alone move him to centre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted October 11, 2018 Report Share Posted October 11, 2018 7 hours ago, travel_dude said: If you are going Tkachuk-Lindholm-Neal, then who do you have left to play top line RW. Don't say Ryan. I would prefer to move Neal to be with Tkachuk and Backlund. Tkachuk is feeding Backlund, to no avail. Neal would not make that line any slower and could give Tkachuk rebound chances with pucks actually hitting the net. I like the combination; a gritty, go to the net guy with skills, a passer with sound defense, and a shooter. No reason why Czarnik couldn;t drive the 3rd line with 2 of Janko, Dube and Bennett. I really don't like Neal on the Backlund line. That is two slower wingers on a shut down line, one of which isn't known for his defensive play. I think right now it is the first or third line for Neal, and that is why I think he is on the third line. There are options for the top line. Czarnik is one. Like it or not Ryan is an option. His success has come playing with Skinner on an offensively focused line. Bennett is an option as well. Gaudreau-Monahan-Czarnik Tkachuk-Lindholm-Neal Bennett-Backlund-Frolik Dube-Jankowski-Ryan It's all moot right now though as the coach hasn't moved Ryan off C or Bennett/Lindholm to C. He won't move Lindholm of the top line or mess with Backlund Tkachuk until those lines cool off either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted October 11, 2018 Report Share Posted October 11, 2018 One more thing. People aren't talking about it right now, but Frolik gets paid 4.3 and is on the fourth line. Neal is on a long term deal of almost 6 and is on the third. Ryan gets over 3 and is on the fourth. Stone is normally on the third pairing getting 3.5. That's a lot of money on the bottom lines and currently not producing. All have at least two seasons left. People aren't talking because we are at game 4. But if it keeps going up that's a lot of dead money you won't be able to trade. It is also probably a lot of disgruntled vets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted October 11, 2018 Report Share Posted October 11, 2018 7 hours ago, kehatch said: I would swap Frolik and Dube. But otherwise that would be my lines. But Bennett is going to need to get a few points before the Flames move him up let alone move him to centre. We always hear this as a comeback and I have to wonder if we armchair coaches can see these combination why not try them now ? Maybe BP is heading there just in a different manner trying a line of Bennett, Dube and Neal is notable. Waiting for Bennett to score some points is the wrong way to assess what this team has here. In the same vein giving Dube and Czarnik higher line spots because of some camp success scoring is not right either. Time will tell where these experiments take us, I'm trying not to be to idealistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted October 11, 2018 Report Share Posted October 11, 2018 3 hours ago, kehatch said: I really don't like Neal on the Backlund line. That is two slower wingers on a shut down line, one of which isn't known for his defensive play. I think right now it is the first or third line for Neal, and that is why I think he is on the third line. There are options for the top line. Czarnik is one. Like it or not Ryan is an option. His success has come playing with Skinner on an offensively focused line. Bennett is an option as well. Gaudreau-Monahan-Czarnik Tkachuk-Lindholm-Neal Bennett-Backlund-Frolik Dube-Jankowski-Ryan It's all moot right now though as the coach hasn't moved Ryan off C or Bennett/Lindholm to C. He won't move Lindholm of the top line or mess with Backlund Tkachuk until those lines cool off either. Right now, I only see the top line as untouchable. It's still early in the season to find capable lines. Tkachuk has scored mostly on the PP. Tkachuk-Backlund-Czarnik has looked like a good line, but are not finishing. Some bad luck, but still. Bennett needs to get points to stay high in the lineup. I don't think there is that many bad combos with our players. Keep the top line the exact same. Tinker with the two lines that aren't producing secondary offence. Whether you stick with Tkachuk-Backlund or find the right player for Tkachuk-Neal, I think it's important to put Tkachuk with Neal. Neal seems to me to be a Tkachuk-type, a bit slower, decent shot, gritty, goes to the net.... At least that's what I saw of him before. Obviously, you need to find the right center for him. Might even be Janko. Don't get me wrong. I love Dube and Czarnik's hustle. They are players. I just don't think they fit the best where they currently are. Maybe it's a line of Dube-Janko-Czarnik. That leaves a couple of choices: Bennett-Backlund-Frolik and Tkachuk-Ryan-Neal or Bennett-Ryan-Frolik and Tkachuk-Backlund-Neal. I think BP is open to looking at different lines right now. The top line hasn't had a lot of success outside the PP. Moving Neal there would provide another level for the lineup. Frees up Lindholm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cccsberg Posted October 11, 2018 Report Share Posted October 11, 2018 On 2018-10-09 at 2:24 PM, travel_dude said: I wouldn't be too concerned as of yet. 2 games is all we are talking about. Top line is playing well as a group. They've had more time to develop together than Neal had with them. As well, the ability to use Linholm on faceoffs is helping that line. At some point, Monahan may not need help there and you could have Lindholm be the center for a 3rd line of Neal and whoever. That's just an option. Neal could easily be moved up to play with Backlund and Tkachuk. Backlund isn't much of a finisher, and Czarnik hasn't lit it up yet. Having two players that can finish in close and Tkachuk there to mop up the Neal shots is intriguing. The added benefit is you have Backlund and Tkachuk there to help with possession and driving the play in the right direction. We'll see. As of yet, we haven't had 4 lines playing well on the same night. An adjustment was made to the 3rd line because they were struggling with possession. Being able to have different looks keeps teams guessing. Neal is down the line-up because he isn’t fully up to speed yet and hasn’t earned it. Others, like Czarnik, have played better and are working to build chemistry elsewhere. If Neal can build chemistry on the “third” line with whomever that would be great. We need all lines firing to build and maintain long-term success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cccsberg Posted October 11, 2018 Report Share Posted October 11, 2018 12 hours ago, travel_dude said: If you are going Tkachuk-Lindholm-Neal, then who do you have left to play top line RW. Don't say Ryan. I would prefer to move Neal to be with Tkachuk and Backlund. Tkachuk is feeding Backlund, to no avail. Neal would not make that line any slower and could give Tkachuk rebound chances with pucks actually hitting the net. I like the combination; a gritty, go to the net guy with skills, a passer with sound defense, and a shooter. No reason why Czarnik couldn;t drive the 3rd line with 2 of Janko, Dube and Bennett. Seems like we have too many Top6 guys and not enough spots. That should not be a problem. Leave the top 2 lines as is and experiment with the third till that works. I believe that is exactly what happens. When injuries happen we can shuffle the upper lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted October 11, 2018 Report Share Posted October 11, 2018 20 minutes ago, cccsberg said: Neal is down the line-up because he isn’t fully up to speed yet and hasn’t earned it. Others, like Czarnik, have played better and are working to build chemistry elsewhere. If Neal can build chemistry on the “third” line with whomever that would be great. We need all lines firing to build and maintain long-term success. There is some debate about earning it in camp and a couple of games versus being a top 6 forward over the last 10 years. My personal opinion is that the top line is really the only one that has shown to be set up exactly right. Other lines have shown glipses of greatness, but a lot of it is individual players. Lindholm looks like the missing piece (right now) for the top line. They have never had a RHS with any real skill playing there. It's potentially a very dangerous line. It's so early right now, but I just don't think the coach is married to anyone playing below the top line. Experiments will happen. Some will work out. I'm not really worried about who plays where right now, because I think it's a lot more a case of challenging players. Does a speedy Czarnik have the defensive smarts to play with Backlund? Should Dube be kept in an offensive role or show him tougher assignments? Who fits with Tkachuk? Should Neal play with speedy young guys that can carry the puck or guys that can protect it? In the mean time, you see durable players like Frolik and Ryan move down to let this happen. You sit out Janko to bring him back energized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsman1 Posted October 11, 2018 Report Share Posted October 11, 2018 1 hour ago, travel_dude said: Right now, I only see the top line as untouchable. It's still early in the season to find capable lines. Tkachuk has scored mostly on the PP. Tkachuk-Backlund-Czarnik has looked like a good line, but are not finishing. Some bad luck, but still. Bennett needs to get points to stay high in the lineup. I don't think there is that many bad combos with our players. Keep the top line the exact same. Tinker with the two lines that aren't producing secondary offence. Whether you stick with Tkachuk-Backlund or find the right player for Tkachuk-Neal, I think it's important to put Tkachuk with Neal. Neal seems to me to be a Tkachuk-type, a bit slower, decent shot, gritty, goes to the net.... At least that's what I saw of him before. Obviously, you need to find the right center for him. Might even be Janko. Don't get me wrong. I love Dube and Czarnik's hustle. They are players. I just don't think they fit the best where they currently are. Maybe it's a line of Dube-Janko-Czarnik. That leaves a couple of choices: Bennett-Backlund-Frolik and Tkachuk-Ryan-Neal or Bennett-Ryan-Frolik and Tkachuk-Backlund-Neal. I think BP is open to looking at different lines right now. The top line hasn't had a lot of success outside the PP. Moving Neal there would provide another level for the lineup. Frees up Lindholm. all the offence again this year is coming from one line.. Yes.. Jonny and Mony play well together but.. It;s early.. guys are excited .. let's keep it that way.. Play for fun.. Jonny/dube/ czarnik.. wowzers!!! speed to burn.. Tzachuk/mony/ neal... a very powerful in your face line...a little slow yea but a good change of pace from the other line.,, bennett/backlund/ lindstrom... an all purpose responsible line,,ryan/jankowski/ frolik.. a solid defensively responsible line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cccsberg Posted October 11, 2018 Report Share Posted October 11, 2018 47 minutes ago, Horsman1 said: all the offence again this year is coming from one line.. Yes.. Jonny and Mony play well together but.. It;s early.. guys are excited .. let's keep it that way.. Play for fun.. Jonny/dube/ czarnik.. wowzers!!! speed to burn.. Tzachuk/mony/ neal... a very powerful in your face line...a little slow yea but a good change of pace from the other line.,, bennett/backlund/ lindstrom... an all purpose responsible line,,ryan/jankowski/ frolik.. a solid defensively responsible line As most of FN has been saying all summer, there are so many options. I’m not the least concerned at the moment about who is playing where. I am wanting them all to play fast, structured and attacking, while being strong defensively. It appears that is starting to develop, and as long as the wins are also coming I’m just enjoying the ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted October 11, 2018 Report Share Posted October 11, 2018 3 hours ago, cccsberg said: As most of FN has been saying all summer, there are so many options. I’m not the least concerned at the moment about who is playing where. I am wanting them all to play fast, structured and attacking, while being strong defensively. It appears that is starting to develop, and as long as the wins are also coming I’m just enjoying the ride. Agreed. That also goes for salary. Contract $s can't dictate where anyone should be on the roster. It has to be pure coaching decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsman1 Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 7 hours ago, cccsberg said: As most of FN has been saying all summer, there are so many options. I’m not the least concerned at the moment about who is playing where. I am wanting them all to play fast, structured and attacking, while being strong defensively. It appears that is starting to develop, and as long as the wins are also coming I’m just enjoying the ride. this is a dream we'd all wish to see as opposed to the reality that keeps slapping us in the face like the game tonight!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 On 2018-10-10 at 9:12 PM, conundrumed said: Neal's been looking like the slowest guy on the team imho. Let's not get slower to accommodate him. I'm thinking putting him on the 1st RW is Ferland. He can't get to where he needs to be when he needs to be there. Lindholm, so far, has proven he can. Let's ride the young and fast while it's showing success. Not accommodate by slowing things down. This should not be a one way street, adjustments do have to be made in order to capitalize on differing styles or in this example speed. This is why line chemistry is crucial to the overall success. I don't mind seeing Dube and Bennett with Neal if Neal is seen as a defensive handicap but someone on that line needs to be a playmaker in order to take advantage of his scoring abilities. This is why I would prefer to see Neal with Bennett and Tkachuk or if they are high on Dube as a C use him not Bennett as the C. If we want more out of Tkachuk we have to get him away for Backlund and Frolik. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 On 10/10/2018 at 9:12 PM, conundrumed said: Neal's been looking like the slowest guy on the team imho. Let's not get slower to accommodate him. I'm thinking putting him on the 1st RW is Ferland. He can't get to where he needs to be when he needs to be there. Lindholm, so far, has proven he can. Let's ride the young and fast while it's showing success. Not accommodate by slowing things down. I think Troy Brouwer just changed his jersey to #18. Like I don't see much of a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted October 13, 2018 Report Share Posted October 13, 2018 22 hours ago, Horsman1 said: this is a dream we'd all wish to see as opposed to the reality that keeps slapping us in the face like the game tonight!!!! Joni reference? Horsman you just won my heart, my favourite songbird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted October 13, 2018 Report Share Posted October 13, 2018 1 hour ago, The_People1 said: I think Troy Brouwer just changed his jersey to #18. Like I don't see much of a difference. It's what, a mil$ difference? In the wrong direction? I'm not worried, the night is young. Neal will find his fit. The team can't overcompensate for him though by changing things for any one player. I'm still a big fan of seeing Tkachuk-Bennett-Czarnik as a 2nd line. Janx/Frolik-Backs-Neal as a 3rd. Janx/Frolik-Ryan-Hathaway 4th Then make Czarnik and Neal interchangeable. The problem with Brouwer was there was no plan B. If Plan A doesn't work, there's 25 more letters in the alphabet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted October 13, 2018 Report Share Posted October 13, 2018 Maybe some of you fin folks can help me understand something. Was there something about Janko's game, pre-season or other, that determined he should sit out? Is Peluso a difference make at all? I haven;t noticed any impact of him being in the lineup. JH gets slashed and knocked to the ice with zero pushback. I get nobody wants to take a penalty. I get Peluso isn't going to find anyone to fight him. He wasn't even on the ice for more than a few minutes the entire game. Bennett did more to spar with the Blues than anyone else. Stone gets leveled by Tarasenko and does little to respond. Bottom line for me is that if you decide you are pulling out a player for another, that the replacement does something useful. Maybe I missed it last night. I blinked a couple of times. Did Peluso impact the game at all? ARe we so loaded with talent that we can sit a 3/4 center? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7wit Posted October 13, 2018 Report Share Posted October 13, 2018 3 hours ago, travel_dude said: Maybe some of you fin folks can help me understand something. Was there something about Janko's game, pre-season or other, that determined he should sit out? Is Peluso a difference make at all? I haven;t noticed any impact of him being in the lineup. JH gets slashed and knocked to the ice with zero pushback. I get nobody wants to take a penalty. I get Peluso isn't going to find anyone to fight him. He wasn't even on the ice for more than a few minutes the entire game. Bennett did more to spar with the Blues than anyone else. Stone gets leveled by Tarasenko and does little to respond. Bottom line for me is that if you decide you are pulling out a player for another, that the replacement does something useful. Maybe I missed it last night. I blinked a couple of times. Did Peluso impact the game at all? ARe we so loaded with talent that we can sit a 3/4 center? At least with Jankowski in the lineup it keeps the other team from quitting on him. Peluso is not a threat to score and should ride the pine until he’s needed. It’s ridiculous that Jankowski sits for Peluso. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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