So Where do we go from here? Analysis & Predictions

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, manu11 said:

I think the guy who really needs to fight for his job is Bouma! I could see him beeing waived and playing in the AHL next season ala Bollig. Whichever young guy takes his spot will be in the 900k+ from Bouma that goes down in the minors.

 I agree.  If Janko makes the team and we traded Stajan, we could have a 4th line of Versteeg-Janko-Brouwer.  That might actually help Brouwer get his groove back.    

[phoenix66]

5 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

You mean like ARI?  They are in disarray right now with their ownership and coaching.  Maybe we can get back a 3rd in 2018.  They will either have ours as a 3rd or a 2nd, while they still have their own.  Stajan is a lower dollar, higher cap one year deal.  

Ya they would be perfect Id say .. or Carolina.. let them have the TDL pick back,  negate the pick we gave them for Smith 

[420since1974]

My opinions on the Flames Free Agents:

 

UFAs:

Bollig – do not re-sign, $1.25M saved.

Elliott – do not re-sign, $2.5M and a 2018 3^rd round draft pick saved.

Kostka – do not re-sign, $800k saved.

Stone – re-sign for 2 years for under $2.5M per.

Versteeg – re-sign for 2 years for under $2M per.

Wideman – do not re-sign, $5.25M saved, officials call fewer penalties on the Flames?

 

RFAs:

Bennett – no arbitration rights, 2-year bridge contract under $3.5M per?

Chiasson – arbitration eligible, 1 year QO.

Culkin – no arbitration rights, do not qualify, $816.667k saved.

Ferland – arbitration eligible, 2 years X $2M?

Gillies – no arbitration rights – 2 years X QO.

Hathaway – arbitration eligible – 2 years X QO.

Kulak – no arbitration rights, 2 years X QO.

Lazar – no arbitration rights, 2 years X QO.

Morrison – arbitration eligible - do not qualify, $925k saved.

Rittich – arbitration eligible, 2 years X QO.

Vey – arbitration eligible – 1 year X QO.

Wotherspoon – arbitration eligible, 1 year QO.

 

Reminder: Calgary still must pay Mason Raymond $1.05M to not play for the Flames in 2017/2018.

[travel_dude]

Hey 420, a QO can only be one year and better players would never sign them.  They are mostly a tool to retain a player's rights.

[phoenix66]

3 hours ago, 420since1974 said:

My opinions on the Flames Free Agents:

 

UFAs:

Bollig – do not re-sign, $1.25M saved.

Elliott – do not re-sign, $2.5M and a 2018 3^rd round draft pick saved.

Kostka – do not re-sign, $800k saved.

Stone – re-sign for 2 years for under $2.5M per.

Versteeg – re-sign for 2 years for under $2M per.

Wideman – do not re-sign, $5.25M saved, officials call fewer penalties on the Flames?

 

RFAs:

Bennett – no arbitration rights, 2-year bridge contract under $3.5M per?

Chiasson – arbitration eligible, 1 year QO.

Culkin – no arbitration rights, do not qualify, $816.667k saved.

Ferland – arbitration eligible, 2 years X $2M?

Gillies – no arbitration rights – 2 years X QO.

Hathaway – arbitration eligible – 2 years X QO.

Kulak – no arbitration rights, 2 years X QO.

Lazar – no arbitration rights, 2 years X QO.

Morrison – arbitration eligible - do not qualify, $925k saved.

Rittich – arbitration eligible, 2 years X QO.

Vey – arbitration eligible – 1 year X QO.

Wotherspoon – arbitration eligible, 1 year QO.

 

Reminder: Calgary still must pay Mason Raymond $1.05M to not play for the Flames in 2017/2018.

Vey signed in KHL.. how does that work , we just QO him to keep his rights?

 

and Chiasson,  being arbitration eligible, I haven't really researched his comparables, but I wonder if he doesnt get the Colborne treatment..no QO, talk to him as a UFA

[AlbertaBoy12]

11 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

Vey signed in KHL.. how does that work , we just QO him to keep his rights?

 

and Chiasson,  being arbitration eligible, I haven't really researched his comparables, but I wonder if he doesnt get the Colborne treatment..no QO, talk to him as a UFA

Yes we QO him to keep his rights just like a couple other players we have had that went to the KHL such as chad billins. Although If I remember correctly it only retains their rights for 2 years? or 3?

 

In terms of chiasson I guess a comparable could be tom wilson in washington at 2 million/year on a 2 year deal, similar point totals and usage in my opinion, less history to go off when he signed his 2 year deal though, so I could see chiassons arguement for more then 2 million.

[cross16]

You keep the rights until the player is UFA age so in Veys case you'll keep them for this year only. 

No point and they shouldn't qualify him. Was only a depth player anyway. 

 

[travel_dude]

19 minutes ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

Yes we QO him to keep his rights just like a couple other players we have had that went to the KHL such as chad billins. Although If I remember correctly it only retains their rights for 2 years? or 3?

 

In terms of chiasson I guess a comparable could be tom wilson in washington at 2 million/year on a 2 year deal, similar point totals and usage in my opinion, less history to go off when he signed his 2 year deal though, so I could see chiassons arguement for more then 2 million.

 

Is he really worth that much to you that you would pay him Versteeg money?  He was fine last year, but that's a bit rich for 24 points.  That's Bouma like money.

If you are talking about anything over $1.25m, then I think they are done talking.

[AlbertaBoy12]

49 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Is he really worth that much to you that you would pay him Versteeg money?  He was fine last year, but that's a bit rich for 24 points.  That's Bouma like money.

If you are talking about anything over $1.25m, then I think they are done talking.

Hes not worth that to me, im simply pointing out a comparable in terms of what he might be awarded in arbitration. If you look around the league theres plenty of guys getting 2 million + who scored 24 points, and an arbitrator might see it that way. 

[travel_dude]

9 minutes ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

Hes not worth that to me, im simply pointing out a comparable in terms of what he might be awarded in arbitration. If you look around the league theres plenty of guys getting 2 million + who scored 24 points, and an arbitrator might see it that way. 

 

I get that.  If he takes the Flames to arbitration, then see ya pal.  I doubt he would.  If anything, the Flames will make him a fair offer and he will take it.  Assuming they want him back.  Low risk signing, but it has to make sense to the Flames.  

 

[The_People1]

Chiasson is a failed experiment.  Let's move on from him.

[travel_dude]

4 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

Chiasson is a failed experiment.  Let's move on from him.

 

The Gooch was a failed experiment.  As was Raymond.  Chaisson was used too much in the top 9 and on PP.  My biggest complaint about him was his lack of hockey sense.  It showed in his lack of positional awareness.  Skating by the net.  Slowing down the play on a transitional rush.

 

Saying that, he has some positives.  He's rather fast.  He's heavy on the boards.  He's not a whimp.

 

I'm not saying we should run out and sign him, but he's better than Bouma and Freddie.  Scores more than Hathaway.  More NHL game than Shinkaruk.  Made Brouwer look worse.

[AlbertaBoy12]

14 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

Chiasson is a failed experiment.  Let's move on from him.

In what sense? hes a perfect 4th liner, hes physical, is very good on the pk and can chip in some points. Unless his contract demand is outrageous, he should be back, hes a much better player then hathaway or bouma.

[AlbertaBoy12]

1 minute ago, travel_dude said:

 

The Gooch was a failed experiment.  As was Raymond.  Chaisson was used too much in the top 9 and on PP.  My biggest complaint about him was his lack of hockey sense.  It showed in his lack of positional awareness.  Skating by the net.  Slowing down the play on a transitional rush.

 

Saying that, he has some positives.  He's rather fast.  He's heavy on the boards.  He's not a whimp.

 

I'm not saying we should run out and sign him, but he's better than Bouma and Freddie.  Scores more than Hathaway.  More NHL game than Shinkaruk.  Made Brouwer look worse.

Hes got his negatives for sure, but unless his contract demands are outrageous Id rather have him on my 4th line, then the other options you stated.

[MAC331]

Just now, travel_dude said:

 

The Gooch was a failed experiment.  As was Raymond.  Chaisson was used too much in the top 9 and on PP.  My biggest complaint about him was his lack of hockey sense.  It showed in his lack of positional awareness.  Skating by the net.  Slowing down the play on a transitional rush.

 

Saying that, he has some positives.  He's rather fast.  He's heavy on the boards.  He's not a whimp.

 

I'm not saying we should run out and sign him, but he's better than Bouma and Freddie.  Scores more than Hathaway.  More NHL game than Shinkaruk.  Made Brouwer look worse.

I would say Brouwer and Chiasson are very similar however I think the choice comes down to Chiasson vs bringing back Versteeg. Versteeg provides way more versatilty for us where as I think we learned last season is really a 4th line RW. I could see where BT signs both if the money is right for both but I would only do 1 year terms.

[phoenix66]

17 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

The Gooch was a failed experiment.  As was Raymond.  Chaisson was used too much in the top 9 and on PP.  My biggest complaint about him was his lack of hockey sense.  It showed in his lack of positional awareness.  Skating by the net.  Slowing down the play on a transitional rush.

 

Saying that, he has some positives.  He's rather fast.  He's heavy on the boards.  He's not a whimp.

 

I'm not saying we should run out and sign him, but he's better than Bouma and Freddie.  Scores more than Hathaway.  More NHL game than Shinkaruk.  Made Brouwer look worse.

agreed, for the right money , he does his job for us . He's that tweener that every team needs. Good enough to play enough every night , not good enough to leave on the top line , great bounce back and forth between the 3rd and 4th.

My only fear is what it takes to sign him.. I suppose worst case you can walk away from all Arbitration decisions right ?

[DirtyDeeds]

58 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

Chiasson is a failed experiment.  Let's move on from him.

I disagree. 12 goals and 12 assists is decent value for $900,000. He really only failed in the top line RW experiment, but he did okay on 4th line and some 3rd line duties/roles. 

 

Sure you could do better, but you could also do a lot worse, for much more money too.

[cross16]

23 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

.. I suppose worst case you can walk away from all Arbitration decisions right ?

 

No. Can only walk away above a certain amount. Thought it was 3.7 mill last year but I'm not 100%. Either way, if Flames went to arbitration with Chiasson they would not be able to walk away. 

 

I agree with People. Chiasson was brough in as a chance to reclaim some past potential and see if he was a fit in your top 9, which didn't happen. While I agree he still had a productive season and solid in the role I don't think you bring him back. He's going to cost you at least 1.25-1.5 or more imo and you gave up a 2nd for Lazar. Save the money and play the youth and Lazar. 

[travel_dude]

26 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

agreed, for the right money , he does his job for us . He's that tweener that every team needs. Good enough to play enough every night , not good enough to leave on the top line , great bounce back and forth between the 3rd and 4th.

My only fear is what it takes to sign him.. I suppose worst case you can walk away from all Arbitration decisions right ?

 

He has the right, I guess.  But why go down that road again.  If you want him, offer whatever your top deal is, then walk away if he doesn;t accept.  

[phoenix66]

5 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

No. Can only walk away above a certain amount. Thought it was 3.7 mill last year but I'm not 100%. Either way, if Flames went to arbitration with Chiasson they would not be able to walk away. 

 

I agree with People. Chiasson was brough in as a chance to reclaim some past potential and see if he was a fit in your top 9, which didn't happen. While I agree he still had a productive season and solid in the role I don't think you bring him back. He's going to cost you at least 1.25-1.5 or more imo and you gave up a 2nd for Lazar. Save the money and play the youth and Lazar. 

in that case , the only road to go really is no QO.. then see what the options are in UFA (or internally ) If he still ends up being the best option then re- sign on our own terms .

[MAC331]

Just now, DirtyDeeds said:

I disagree. 12 goals and 12 assists is decent value for $900,000. He really only failed in the top line RW experiment, but he did okay on 4th line and some 3rd line duties/roles. 

 

Sure you could do better, but you could also do a lot worse, for much more money too.

You are right , he wasn't terrible but BT has to determine if he can better spend on an even better player, maybe someone that brings a different element.

[travel_dude]

13 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said:

I disagree. 12 goals and 12 assists is decent value for $900,000. He really only failed in the top line RW experiment, but he did okay on 4th line and some 3rd line duties/roles. 

 

Sure you could do better, but you could also do a lot worse, for much more money too.

 

It really comes down to available spots.  If you need a body, he may be better than you get in FA.  If you don't, then he is depth.  At $1m he is depth for value.  

Versteeg is better and more versatile.  Biggest unknown is whether we have any farm hands that make him expendable.

 

[MAC331]

Just now, travel_dude said:

 

It really comes down to available spots.  If you need a body, he may be better than you get in FA.  If you don't, then he is depth.  At $1m he is depth for value.  

Versteeg is better and more versatile.  Biggest unknown is whether we have any farm hands that make him expendable.

 

Pribyl could be that replacement but how soon will be the question with him. This is why BT would be smart to bring back Versteeg who can practically play anywhere.

[phoenix66]

3 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

It really comes down to available spots.  If you need a body, he may be better than you get in FA.  If you don't, then he is depth.  At $1m he is depth for value.  

Versteeg is better and more versatile.  Biggest unknown is whether we have any farm hands that make him expendable.

 

if it comes down to Versteeg OR Chiasson , then definitely Versteeg , hands down . I consider him a must sign

Internally it depends if you believe players among the likes of  Pribyl, Hathaway, Shinkaruk.. could be ready to come in and be everyday players

[MAC331]

1 minute ago, phoenix66 said:

if it comes down to Versteeg OR Chiasson , then definitely Versteeg , hands down . I consider him a must sign

Internally it depends if you believe players among the likes of  Pribyl, Hathaway, Shinkaruk.. could be ready to come in and be everyday players

I think the 3 you mention get opportunities as injuries occur to the established roster. I'm not as high on Hathaway as some but he can be instrumental against certain teams and if the team needs some energy brought in.