So Where do we go from here? Analysis & Predictions

[MAC331]

9 hours ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

Im honestly starting to wonder if BT is waiting to see who gets picked from us in the expansion draft. I dont think its going to change the moves he makes too much but I think it will effect it if brouwer or stajan get taken. I personally think as I stated in another thread that BT brings in andersson to play in the top 4 as long as his fitness improves, and kulak to play bottom pairing minutes with stone. I know its not the best idea to thrust a rookie in there, but unless BT gets a young dman in a trade its hard for him to overpay in free agency when our guys should be ready sooner then later. Its almost certainly a pipe dream, but id love to see the flames pick up niederreiter to play with mony and johnny leaving ferland to play with backlund and frolik. The only reason I think the trade for niederreiter might work is because minny is coming to a crossroads with their group as they get older, and they might want to retool with picks/cap space. 

 

Goaltenders is obviously the hard part, im not really sure where we go with that. Elliott would be a good option but we are risking term, dollars, and a 3rd rounder on him bouncing back. Im assuming the more likely plan is we trade that 3rd + some other stuff for a grubauer or similar goaltender in the younger age group, and bring back johnson for backup duties. 

 

That would be my dream team going into next season, if we could make a better move for a top 4 dman whos proven then sure, but I dont think thats going to happen based on BT comments and the market. Anderrson should be a good option if he can get his fitness level up a bit over the summer, as consistency in the top 4 should come easy then.

I too favor the Andersson with Brodie approach at least early and see how it goes. GG has shown that he likes to have these younger players supported by experienced players. I think Stone should be a target but only at a price no higher that 3.75M. Many think Kulak may go in the ED however if still here Bartkowski and Kulak can work that last LSD position.

MIN is interesting and likely need to make some kind of move(s) staying with defense I would like to see us trade for Dumba rather than Neiderreiter. Either one will be a tricky trade being MIN is a rival and we don't have all that many trade bullets. If BT chose to move on Dumba I would have to think Andersson goes in the deal from our side.

Goalie as we have seen is a bit all over the map regarding who might be the right choice for us. We are poised to make this a pre-ED deal because we can protect the player.

[AlbertaBoy12]

10 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I too favor the Andersson with Brodie approach at least early and see how it goes. GG has shown that he likes to have these younger players supported by experienced players. I think Stone should be a target but only at a price no higher that 3.75M. Many think Kulak may go in the ED however if still here Bartkowski and Kulak can work that last LSD position.

MIN is interesting and likely need to make some kind of move(s) staying with defense I would like to see us trade for Dumba rather than Neiderreiter. Either one will be a tricky trade being MIN is a rival and we don't have all that many trade bullets. If BT chose to move on Dumba I would have to think Andersson goes in the deal from our side.

Goalie as we have seen is a bit all over the map regarding who might be the right choice for us. We are poised to make this a pre-ED deal because we can protect the player.

Its totally possible kulak goes in the ED, either way it shouldnt be overly hard to find a #6 to fill in that spot next to stone if thats the case. I suggested kulak because BT said he wants a couple young guys to come in next season,, so that should make things interesting. 

 

I like dumba as a player, but I think we are less in need of help on our backend with our pipeline, andersson should be a top 4 D man sooner then later, hickey should be a 2nd pairing guy, kylington is looking better and better everyday. I dont think we need to make a trade for a D man unless you see us getting rid of gio, stone should be able to be had at 3m a year or less, id say on a 2-3 year deal. 

 

Goalies is a good point,, but we wiill probably have to wait for the stanley cup finals to be done for a move like that.

[MAC331]

2 minutes ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

Its totally possible kulak goes in the ED, either way it shouldnt be overly hard to find a #6 to fill in that spot next to stone if thats the case. I suggested kulak because BT said he wants a couple young guys to come in next season,, so that should make things interesting. 

 

I like dumba as a player, but I think we are less in need of help on our backend with our pipeline, andersson should be a top 4 D man sooner then later, hickey should be a 2nd pairing guy, kylington is looking better and better everyday. I dont think we need to make a trade for a D man unless you see us getting rid of gio, stone should be able to be had at 3m a year or less, id say on a 2-3 year deal. 

 

Goalies is a good point,, but we wiill probably have to wait for the stanley cup finals to be done for a move like that.

Our only problem is after Andersson we RHSD prospects are almost non existent. If we could swap young and experienced now in Dumba for Andersson and something I see this as a smart long term move for us. Kylington, Hickey and a number of our other prospect D are all LHSD.

[AlbertaBoy12]

4 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Our only problem is after Andersson we RHSD prospects are almost non existent. If we could swap young and experienced now in Dumba for Andersson and something I see this as a smart long term move for us. Kylington, Hickey and a number of our other prospect D are all LHSD.

I agree. But if we have andersson and hamilton in our top 4, we dont really need any prospects necessarily ready for a few years. Adam fox is a right shot,, obviously a few years away,, and I guess it depends how the organization sees morrison. But If I was BT I wouldnt be overly worried about our RHSH pipeline as he can draft a guy this year, hopefully hes ready for 3rd pairing duties down the road, but thats all we would need.

[MAC331]

Just now, AlbertaBoy12 said:

I agree. But if we have andersson and hamilton in our top 4, we dont really need any prospects necessarily ready for a few years. Adam fox is a right shot,, obviously a few years away,, and I guess it depends how the organization sees morrison. But If I was BT I wouldnt be overly worried about our RHSH pipeline as he can draft a guy this year, hopefully hes ready for 3rd pairing duties down the road, but thats all we would need.

Hockey is a game of advantage edges and I think you said it first that MIN could wait for Andersson where as we could use the experience Dumba could add with Brodie now.

Experience being the key to such a move, we also could ease Andersson into the picture. Agree Fox will be the future but a ways off yet. Morrison doesn't seem to excite anyone but they may give him another go round in the AHL.

[cross16]

21 hours ago, MAC331 said:

 

Is there any thought of trading Backlund or Brodie or both ?

 

 

Still a hard No for me on Brodie unless a dman is coming back as I don't beleive they have the depth to replace him and FA sucks this year. You are also trading him on a down year so likely a more depressed trade value so I belive there is greater value in keeping him and having him bounce back, he will, rather than trading him for less than full value. 

 

A Backlund trade still intrigues me but options are limited. I don't think trading Backs makes sense unless you address RW, D or G and if you look around the league at teams that may need/want Backs, the options are limited. However, i wonder if Vegas becomes an option. Not that this is by any means an exact tool but running throught he expansion draft tool on CapFriendly shows you that Vegas will likely be pretty good in G and on D but awful down the middle. Backs is in a good age range for Vegas where he can help you become respectable faster, but still help you in a few years too so i wonder if that is an option for the Flames too. Might be their best one when it comes to moving him. 

[travel_dude]

27 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Still a hard No for me on Brodie unless a dman is coming back as I don't beleive they have the depth to replace him and FA sucks this year. You are also trading him on a down year so likely a more depressed trade value so I belive there is greater value in keeping him and having him bounce back, he will, rather than trading him for less than full value. 

 

A Backlund trade still intrigues me but options are limited. I don't think trading Backs makes sense unless you address RW, D or G and if you look around the league at teams that may need/want Backs, the options are limited. However, i wonder if Vegas becomes an option. Not that this is by any means an exact tool but running throught he expansion draft tool on CapFriendly shows you that Vegas will likely be pretty good in G and on D but awful down the middle. Backs is in a good age range for Vegas where he can help you become respectable faster, but still help you in a few years too so i wonder if that is an option for the Flames too. Might be their best one when it comes to moving him. 

 

Brodie for Trouba or Hamonic or Fowler.  Assuming those teams would even deal the player, that is the kind of return you would need to move Brodie.  In other words, it won't happen.

 

Backlund to LV is something I hadn't considered.  They will get a quantity of wingers and 3/4 D-men and possibly an extra goalie that is very good.  So a decent RW and a good #4 for Backlund may be a fair return that doesn't kill us. 

[MAC331]

21 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Still a hard No for me on Brodie unless a dman is coming back as I don't beleive they have the depth to replace him and FA sucks this year. You are also trading him on a down year so likely a more depressed trade value so I belive there is greater value in keeping him and having him bounce back, he will, rather than trading him for less than full value. 

 

A Backlund trade still intrigues me but options are limited. I don't think trading Backs makes sense unless you address RW, D or G and if you look around the league at teams that may need/want Backs, the options are limited. However, i wonder if Vegas becomes an option. Not that this is by any means an exact tool but running throught he expansion draft tool on CapFriendly shows you that Vegas will likely be pretty good in G and on D but awful down the middle. Backs is in a good age range for Vegas where he can help you become respectable faster, but still help you in a few years too so i wonder if that is an option for the Flames too. Might be their best one when it comes to moving him. 

Yeah I retracted my thoughts on trading Brodie at all as well. Backlund is a definite value piece when considering any trade where we want value needs back. I was listening to Lombardius talking about the draft and some of our other prospects and he thinks Dillion Dube will be making our team in 2 years. If this were to be the case we could have Monahan, Bennett, Jankowski and Dube down the middle making the loss of Backlund hurt less. Question becomes who would be the best trading partner ?

[zima]

I said it before and I will say it again Backs was the best player for this team this yr if it wasn't for his line we would have been hopped is a strong defender and he produces points thats a combination most teams would kill for why would you move that? Only reason I could think of is if he want stupid money.

[Flyerfan52]

4 hours ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

Its totally possible kulak goes in the ED, either way it shouldnt be overly hard to find a #6 to fill in that spot next to stone if thats the case. I suggested kulak because BT said he wants a couple young guys to come in next season,, so that should make things interesting. 

 

I like dumba as a player, but I think we are less in need of help on our backend with our pipeline, andersson should be a top 4 D man sooner then later, hickey should be a 2nd pairing guy, kylington is looking better and better everyday. I dont think we need to make a trade for a D man unless you see us getting rid of gio, stone should be able to be had at 3m a year or less, id say on a 2-3 year deal. 

 

Goalies is a good point,, but we wiill probably have to wait for the stanley cup finals to be done for a move like that.

Andersson has 54 pro games (1 NHL) so is most likely @ least a year away & even then probably not top 4. Annointing him is the Baertschi part #2 story.

Should doesn't mean will. When the Flyers drafted Sbisa 19th OA I had great hopes he should be a top end D. 9 years & a few teams later he's depth @ best on good teams.

 

I'd gladly put Andersson in a trade for the 2 year older but proven Dumba.

 

If Stone is available @ a million less than he was paid last season it means other teams (all 30) don't see him as a top 4 RD (& you know teams over pay those).

[MAC331]

2 minutes ago, Flyerfan52 said:

Andersson has 54 pro games (1 NHL) so is most likely @ least a year away & even then probably not top 4. Annointing him is the Baertschi part #2 story.

Should doesn't mean will. When the Flyers drafted Sbisa 19th OA I had great hopes he should be a top end D. 9 years & a few teams later he's depth @ best on good teams.

 

I'd gladly put Andersson in a trade for the 2 year older but proven Dumba.

 

If Stone is available @ a million less than he was paid last season it means other teams (all 30) don't see him as a top 4 RD (& you know teams over pay those).

If you can get Dumba we don't need Stone IMO. Dumba can play with Brodie and we can pick up a cost effective RHSD for the 3rd pairing. What gets Dumba ?

[travel_dude]

36 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Yeah I retracted my thoughts on trading Brodie at all as well. Backlund is a definite value piece when considering any trade where we want value needs back. I was listening to Lombardius talking about the draft and some of our other prospects and he thinks Dillion Dube will be making our team in 2 years. If this were to be the case we could have Monahan, Bennett, Jankowski and Dube down the middle making the loss of Backlund hurt less. Question becomes who would be the best trading partner ?

ARI has lots of caps space depending on how they approach their current RFA's.  They probably will (should) move on from Doan, so perhaps we could interest them in Brouwer.  Reider in exchange.  Or Domi.

 

Seriously, if we traded Backs to them, it would need to include a Murphy or Duclair/Domi swap.  Straight up for Dvorak.  Not realistic, but that's the kind of thing I would want from ARI.

[MAC331]

Just now, travel_dude said:

ARI has lots of caps space depending on how they approach their current RFA's.  They probably will (should) move on from Doan, so perhaps we could interest them in Brouwer.  Reider in exchange.  Or Domi.

 

Seriously, if we traded Backs to them, it would need to include a Murphy or Duclair/Domi swap.  Straight up for Dvorak.  Not realistic, but that's the kind of thing I would want from ARI.

My preference if trading Backlund would be to an Eastern Conference team like DET for Mrazek and Larkin. I know we would be adding to the deal but this would give us a good Goalie to build with and Larkin could either free up Tkachuk to play RW or maybe Larkin could play RW. Larkin has speed to burn and we could use this while making up for losing what Backlund does for us.

[Flyerfan52]

The more I try to figure out what the GMs in Anaheim or Minny will do the more convinced I am that they will resign themselves to losing 1 good player so unlikely to make it 2 by trading 1 on the cheap.

Again I'm looking to the east where we can basically until after the ED wait to snag a D man from Carolina or Columbus since both need forwards in exchange for defense. With the east there isn't the in conference premium since neither has to worry about facing the 1 they traded a lot of times.

 

The same isn't true for current b/u goalies as it's move 'em or lose 'em for nothing.

 

So solve the goalie problem 1st as we have 1 of the very few teams that can trade for, sign & protect a goalie. Go for the younger 1 we see as the future 1st & hedge the bet with a vet to share duties later in the summer when the many UFAs either take the offer or look for work in a Euro league.

 

I'm trying to avoid being faced with dealing with LV because they could (depending on predraft trades) try to corner the market on youngish goalies & 4/5 defense. They might well have a sellers market if other teams aren't proactive.

 

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, Flyerfan52 said:

The more I try to figure out what the GMs in Anaheim or Minny will do the more convinced I am that they will resign themselves to losing 1 good player so unlikely to make it 2 by trading 1 on the cheap.

Again I'm looking to the east where we can basically until after the ED wait to snag a D man from Carolina or Columbus since both need forwards in exchange for defense. With the east there isn't the in conference premium since neither has to worry about facing the 1 they traded a lot of times.

 

The same isn't true for current b/u goalies as it's move 'em or lose 'em for nothing.

 

So solve the goalie problem 1st as we have 1 of the very few teams that can trade for, sign & protect a goalie. Go for the younger 1 we see as the future 1st & hedge the bet with a vet to share duties later in the summer when the many UFAs either take the offer or look for work in a Euro league.

 

I'm trying to avoid being faced with dealing with LV because they could (depending on predraft trades) try to corner the market on youngish goalies & 4/5 defense. They might well have a sellers market if other teams aren't proactive.

 

 

Let em get stuck with 5 goalies.  As long as we get ours first, then the heck with em.

[Flyerfan52]

1 minute ago, travel_dude said:

 

Let em get stuck with 5 goalies.  As long as we get ours first, then the heck with em.

That's the key point. If we don't LV has cornered the market meaning the price goes up. Using a familiar example the Jets could well afford to trade for someone like Grubauer/Raanta to share the crease with Hellebuyck to vie for that #1 spot & hope it makes both excel.

We can offer the shot @ #1 but need to hedge our bet & don't have the assets Wpg. does to get the guy. The Jets have a ton of forward prospects to speed up LV building & all their picks + for the next 2 years. The Flames have neither.

That's why on the young goalie I hope BT moves fast while the pickings are there. After the draft the Jets are only 1 team ready to deal. With some it might only be to get a better b/u but depending on if they want an understudy or see a future #1 will bid. More interest = higher cost to attain.

[Flyerfan52]

35 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

If you can get Dumba we don't need Stone IMO. Dumba can play with Brodie and we can pick up a cost effective RHSD for the 3rd pairing. What gets Dumba ?

In the post I quoted you said we don't have a need for help on the blueline as the prospects will be ready & we can get Stone cheap. I replied to those thoughts & disagreed.

[travel_dude]

21 minutes ago, Flyerfan52 said:

That's the key point. If we don't LV has cornered the market meaning the price goes up. Using a familiar example the Jets could well afford to trade for someone like Grubauer/Raanta to share the crease with Hellebuyck to vie for that #1 spot & hope it makes both excel.

We can offer the shot @ #1 but need to hedge our bet & don't have the assets Wpg. does to get the guy. The Jets have a ton of forward prospects to speed up LV building & all their picks + for the next 2 years. The Flames have neither.

That's why on the young goalie I hope BT moves fast while the pickings are there. After the draft the Jets are only 1 team ready to deal. With some it might only be to get a better b/u but depending on if they want an understudy or see a future #1 will bid. More interest = higher cost to attain.

 

Moving fast also means dealing before the market heats up.  If we made an offer today, their GM could contact other GM's to start a bidding war, but I doubt that happen.  More likely the other teams say fine and hang up.  

 

What is interesting is that a team like WSH could trade with PITTS for MAF.  That allows them to trade Gru and still expose MAF and not lose big elsewhere.  Actually CAR might be in a better position to do that.  Worse case is they get stuck with MAF as a 1a/1b to Darling.

[Flyerfan52]

27 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Moving fast also means dealing before the market heats up.  If we made an offer today, their GM could contact other GM's to start a bidding war, but I doubt that happen.  More likely the other teams say fine and hang up.  

 

What is interesting is that a team like WSH could trade with PITTS for MAF.  That allows them to trade Gru and still expose MAF and not lose big elsewhere.  Actually CAR might be in a better position to do that.  Worse case is they get stuck with MAF as a 1a/1b to Darling.

Sneaky deals. An unclaimed MAF wouldn't work for the Caps (cap space  should LV opt for bagging a skater off them) ) but it would work for Carolina as long as the Pengies take back Ward or Lack to expose or be next years b/u @ cheaper than this years tandem. A 2 year cushion if Darling isn't quite ready & only 1 goalie left to demote/buy out. But there is no reason for Ron Francis to give up much (if anything) should MAF waive for saving the Pens from buying out the guy that was the reason the Pens are in the 3rd round of playoffs even with Murray injured. & it guarantees the Pens lose a skater (likely a D they can ill afford).

I don't see it work for the Caps to have Ward/Lack as b/u because of $s nor Carolina risking the goalie position to 2 probably = ready/almost ready for the big time former backups.

But it is an interesting thought.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, Flyerfan52 said:

Sneaky deals. An unclaimed MAF wouldn't work for the Caps (cap space  should LV opt for bagging a skater off them) ) but it would work for Carolina as long as the Pengies take back Ward or Lack to expose or be next years b/u @ cheaper than this years tandem. A 2 year cushion if Darling isn't quite ready & only 1 goalie left to demote/buy out. But there is no reason for Ron Francis to give up much (if anything) should MAF waive for saving the Pens from buying out the guy that was the reason the Pens are in the 3rd round of playoffs even with Murray injured. & it guarantees the Pens lose a skater (likely a D they can ill afford).

I don't see it work for the Caps to have Ward/Lack as b/u because of $s nor Carolina risking the goalie position to 2 probably = ready/almost ready for the big time former backups.

But it is an interesting thought.

 

I think it would be safe to say that LV would claim MAF if they had the chance.  He would give them the time to develop the team in front of him as well as giving time to whatever 1b or backup was behind him.  The remainder of starters left unprotected in June is going to be mostly backups and leftovers.  The choices of starters for Vegas in FA will be guys like Mason, Reimer, Bernier.  Sure they could sign without anything other than $$, but the player might hold out for a longer term than 2 years.  

 

Carolina would be a good destination after the draft.  They need to protect Darling.  They need to deal wit the other two under contract.  Neither is that good.  Possibly one is demoted and the other is bought out.  WSH trades for MAF and deals him after the draft (if he isn't claimed) to CAR.  They recoup the investment they paid to get MAF.  And they still have whatever we sent them for Grubauer. 

[Flyerfan52]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think it would be safe to say that LV would claim MAF if they had the chance.  He would give them the time to develop the team in front of him as well as giving time to whatever 1b or backup was behind him.  The remainder of starters left unprotected in June is going to be mostly backups and leftovers.  The choices of starters for Vegas in FA will be guys like Mason, Reimer, Bernier.  Sure they could sign without anything other than $$, but the player might hold out for a longer term than 2 years.  

 

Carolina would be a good destination after the draft.  They need to protect Darling.  They need to deal wit the other two under contract.  Neither is that good.  Possibly one is demoted and the other is bought out.  WSH trades for MAF and deals him after the draft (if he isn't claimed) to CAR.  They recoup the investment they paid to get MAF.  And they still have whatever we sent them for Grubauer. 

1st you say that LV will claim MAF if they can but then say after the draft for Carolina who could use him or lose him - don't matter as it rids them of the 3 under contract scenario as the Pens need an exposable 1 leaving them with only who they can use as b/u.

Washington doesn't work as they lose Grubauer & Carolina has no need to give much for MAF as they know the hit hurts the Caps & what any team offers is unlikely to replace the skater lost if LV opts to go that way. Better for Washington just to lose Grubauer, keep their skaters & promote 1 of  Carlson/Vanacek or sign a cheap b/u.

[The_People1]

4 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

What is interesting is that a team like WSH could trade with PITTS for MAF.  That allows them to trade Gru and still expose MAF and not lose big elsewhere.  Actually CAR might be in a better position to do that.  Worse case is they get stuck with MAF as a 1a/1b to Darling.

 

What if MAF is okay with a trade to WSH and then exercises his NMC to force Holtby to be exposed?

[Flyerfan52]

50 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

What if MAF is okay with a trade to WSH and then exercises his NMC to force Holtby to be exposed?

That would be the fastest buyout on record.

MAF - I refuse to waive

Brian MacLellan to an aide - hit send on the fax machine. I prepared the buyout the minute after we traded for this PoS

 

[phoenix66]

May or may not mean anything , but TJ Brodie's MNTC kicks in next season .. so if there was any thought towards moving him , this is when it will happen

[Flyerfan52]

2 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

May or may not mean anything , but TJ Brodie's MNTC kicks in next season .. so if there was any thought towards moving him , this is when it will happen

Brodie, Holtby, Spurgeon & Hoffman are mentioned for that reason in the off-season primer on SN.