The_People1 Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/mike-babcock-coachs-challenge-fewer-goals-toronto-maple-leafs-bigger-nets-goaltenders-henrik-lundqvist/ So during one of the intermissions in one of the games last Saturday, they mentioned that approximately 1650 posts were hit in the regular season in the 2014/15 season. The idea to increase the size of the nets includes moving the posts out approximately the width of the goal posts on both sides which would then increase goal scoring per year by 1650 (about 55-goals per team per season). What do we think about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xstrike Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/mike-babcock-coachs-challenge-fewer-goals-toronto-maple-leafs-bigger-nets-goaltenders-henrik-lundqvist/ So during one of the intermissions in one of the games last Saturday, they mentioned that approximately 1650 posts were hit in the regular season in the 2014/15 season. The idea to increase the size of the nets includes moving the posts out approximately the width of the goal posts on both sides which would then increase goal scoring per year by 1650 (about 55-goals per team per season). What do we think about this? I've seen some discussion around about this. I think it really depends on what you want the league to look like. Are the scores we have not good enough? Do we need to have 7+ goal games as a regularity? My thoughts are that the first season with wider nets will result in a massive increase in goals because the GK's will not be accustomed to it, but by season 2, that will decrease a bit but still be higher than at present. I understand the argument that there's so little space to shoot at now and that a lot of goals have to be scored by either deflections or "garbage" goals, but I'm not sure if I quite agree with it yet. Tinfoil hat time!!: This is a ploy by the league to get more run and gun games, a style that suits the OILERS! They're trying to artificially put EDM ahead in the standings! *le gasp!* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 I more receptive to it then I use to be. I personally think its a poor idea to try and improve the "excitment" of the game because more goals doesn't necessairly equal more excitment. But I think you have to look at it from an evolution standpoint. Goalie are bigger and goalie eqiupment is bigger then it ever has been and when you combine all of that with iimproved goalie techniques, you see a huge reason was the NHL struggles to keep scoring up. They've tried to limit the goalie equipment and that really hasn't made much of a difference and i'm not convinced that bigger nets necessiarly will dramatically increase scoring either. Its too simplistic to say automatically that over 1000 goals will be scored, but I do think it would increase scoring its just to what degree. But like I said, I almost think now its less of what wil increase scoring and what makes sense form an evolution standpoint of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted November 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 More goals don't mean more excitement but more goals means potential for more lead changes. Lead changes are exciting. A 2-1 score means you can only have a maximum of one lead change whereas a 4-3 score suddenly has potential for several lead changes. That said, does increasing the size of the nets by the width of the two goal posts suddenly going to increase goal scoring that dramatically? I think not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheersMan Posted November 11, 2015 Report Share Posted November 11, 2015 Not for me thanks. I’m ok with the nets remaining the same size for over 100 yrs now. This topic should be a non starter for the sake of our sport. Let’s not reinvent the wheel or tear up the history books. I remember vividly hockey in the past, when you could see plenty of net behind the tenders and goals were in abundance. The league has allowed the tenders padding to balloon to where it is today, now it is time for league to start shrinking the padding to where it needs to be. The tenders have not gotten bigger, the padding has. A big NO to increased net dimensions and a big YES to smaller pads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xstrike Posted November 11, 2015 Report Share Posted November 11, 2015 But I think you have to look at it from an evolution standpoint. Goalie are bigger and goalie eqiupment is bigger then it ever has been and when you combine all of that with iimproved goalie techniques, you see a huge reason was the NHL struggles to keep scoring up. The athletes of today are so much further ahead. Height also plays an important role. I think if one took a look at the average goal tender height over the years, it has increased. It is generally true that leg length increases with height as does mass (girth) to a certain extent. Is it enough to warrant widening the nets? Maybe. More goals don't mean more excitement The precise reason I don't watch basketball. Too much scoring that I don't care much; thus, apathy sets in with less to get excited about. Oh look, they scored, now we scored, now they scored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheersMan Posted November 11, 2015 Report Share Posted November 11, 2015 Here are two GT's that had the same weight and height from different generations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xstrike Posted November 11, 2015 Report Share Posted November 11, 2015 Here are two GT's that had the same weight and height from different generations. That's one example. I'm thinking general trends. I don't actually know, but it would be interesting to find out. In addition, of that weight, how much was fat vs muscle (body composition) compared between the two? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulstad Posted November 11, 2015 Report Share Posted November 11, 2015 Didn't the NHL institute a limit on the size of goalie equipment a couple of times over the last few years? First they limited the width of the pads and the size of the upper body protection (very noticeable on goalies like JS Giguere who looked like a little kid playing dress-up in his father's suit), then they limited the length of the pads during the last CBA. I am in the "don't do it" camp when it comes to increasing the size of the nets. There's nothing wrong with the size, nor is the goalie equipment getting bigger, it's just that there are far less accurate shooters in the NHL now (more powerful, definitely, but not as accurate). Piss off and leave the nets alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted November 11, 2015 Report Share Posted November 11, 2015 Here are two GT's that had the same weight and height from different generations. Price isn't exactly a huge guy. Tall, but 215 is not huge for 6'3". That sweater makes him look like he is about 280. Considering most goalies are injured around the neck or head, why is there so much padding and extra jersey in the upper part of the body. Those pads also look like they could stop a bullet. It looks like the goalie pads are designed to equalize a 5'10" goalie with a 6'3" goalie. Cover more of the net. In that way, the players will never agree to reduce the padding size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Didn't the NHL institute a limit on the size of goalie equipment a couple of times over the last few years? First they limited the width of the pads and the size of the upper body protection (very noticeable on goalies like JS Giguere who looked like a little kid playing dress-up in his father's suit), then they limited the length of the pads during the last CBA. I am in the "don't do it" camp when it comes to increasing the size of the nets. There's nothing wrong with the size, nor is the goalie equipment getting bigger, it's just that there are far less accurate shooters in the NHL now (more powerful, definitely, but not as accurate). Piss off and leave the nets alone. They did and it did pretty much nothing which is why the bigger nets debate has come back on the table. I would disagree on the accuracy becuase IMO right now there is more talent in the game then there was in the early 2000s but yet scoring is at basically the same level. It is very tough to be an overly accurate shooter when you look up and see nothing but a goalie in the net with only tiny areas to shoot at. I think the Dryden - Price photo comparison there just demonstrates how much more of the net current goalies take up versus goalies of the past. I don't think is immediate problem now, but my worriy is if scoring continues on this path where will we be in 3-4 years so I agree you've got to look at it now. I think looking at the goalie eqiupment is where you want to start and if it can be done then do it. Suprisingly most goalies they've asked about it are receptive when confirms to me that its way too big to begin with. EDIT: actually just found a great Marian Hossa quote about this. http://my.chicagotribune.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-85005319/ When Blackhawks winger Marian Hossa broke into the NHL in the late 1990s, he can remember how much space he had to shoot at a net on a breakaway. It seemed like a canyon compared to what's available today. "You used to see so much net back then when you were coming face-to-face with the goalie," Hossa said. "These days, it's hard to see any real holes." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted November 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 When they broke out of the lockout in 2005, goal scoring actually improved dramatically and it was a result of eliminating the two line pass and cutting down severely on clutching and grabbing. That, and a few coaches adopted full on offensive strategies because they were trying to take advantage of the new rules. Fast forward 10 years and goal scoring is down again because at the end of the day, offense wins games but defense wins championships. Every team is focusing on defense-first hockey again. What this suggests is that game styles affect goal scoring more than goalie equipment. In other words, make new rules that encourage/reward offensive systems rather than defensive systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Personally I don't think increasing the size of the nets is the right way to go. I have no problem with downsizing goalie pads if.... Big If... it does not take away from the goalies safety. Seems to me last time the goalie pads were in discussion they put a former goalie in charge of this study. Is this suggestion the only thing he could come up with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 Personally I don't think increasing the size of the nets is the right way to go. I have no problem with downsizing goalie pads if.... Big If... it does not take away from the goalies safety. Seems to me last time the goalie pads were in discussion they put a former goalie in charge of this study. Is this suggestion the only thing he could come up with? During the game last night, they had the little bald guy dress up in the chest protector. He disappeared in the equipment and looked to be around 300 pounds. Kyprios had the catching glove and it looked like you could stop a truck with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 I'm fine with increasing the size of the nets if they also increase the size of the ice. Goalies on average are bigger but so are skaters. Gaudreau is considered small now but Henri (Pocket Rocket) Richard was roughly the same size. I read an article about advanced stats today about save %s that touched on the fact not all shots are created equal. With teams trying to make better use of the 4th line you see more shots from them. Even the best 4th liner doesn't possess the shot of a 1st liner. I'd like to see the size of goalie jerseys limited. 4" of sleeve hanging from the upper arm is like a portable net stopping or slowing shots. ********************************************************************************** If the NHL really wants to increase goals make the goalies go back to the old horsehair filled pads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 During the game last night, they had the little bald guy dress up in the chest protector. He disappeared in the equipment and looked to be around 300 pounds. Kyprios had the catching glove and it looked like you could stop a truck with it. Are you talking about Darren Pang? former NHL Goalie for the Blackhawks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted November 13, 2015 Report Share Posted November 13, 2015 Are you talking about Darren Pang? former NHL Goalie for the Blackhawks? Yes. Little bald guy. He said he was 140 lbs. but you should have seen how big he looked. I wish I had a pic of it. It was insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted February 7, 2016 Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 Although this chart has to do with Goaltender Pads it has its place on the size of the nets debate too. The last official change in goaltenders pads was in 2006 season where the pads were reduced from 12-11 in wide. http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/if-goalie-equipment-shrinks-dont-expect-save-percentages-to-decrease-with-it/ As you can see the SV% has seen steady growth despite the reduction in size of goaltenders pads. Some speculate it is because the reduced size gave the goaltender better mobility. Apparently a new bunch of changes are coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Although this chart has to do with Goaltender Pads it has its place on the size of the nets debate too. The last official change in goaltenders pads was in 2006 season where the pads were reduced from 12-11 in wide. http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/if-goalie-equipment-shrinks-dont-expect-save-percentages-to-decrease-with-it/ As you can see the SV% has seen steady growth despite the reduction in size of goaltenders pads. Some speculate it is because the reduced size gave the goaltender better mobility. Apparently a new bunch of changes are coming. I think this is why you have to seriously consider bigger nets. Its already been shown that reducitng goaltending equipment is only a temporary fix. Goaltending is not a science and starts at minor hockey so they are only getting better at their technique. You can less then eqiupment but they will learn to adapt. I'm intrested to see how the new changes will work, but i'm pretty convinced at this point that the NHL will have to go to bigger nets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted February 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Although this chart has to do with Goaltender Pads it has its place on the size of the nets debate too. The last official change in goaltenders pads was in 2006 season where the pads were reduced from 12-11 in wide. http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/if-goalie-equipment-shrinks-dont-expect-save-percentages-to-decrease-with-it/ As you can see the SV% has seen steady growth despite the reduction in size of goaltenders pads. Some speculate it is because the reduced size gave the goaltender better mobility. Apparently a new bunch of changes are coming. I wonder how the size of goalies themselves correlate with the league average save percentage. It used to be, if you were a good 6'-0" reflex goalie, then you had a place in the NHL. Nowadays, it seems the minimum height to be a goalie in the NHL is 6'-2" and you must also have high end athletic abilities too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 During the game last night, they had the little bald guy dress up in the chest protector. He disappeared in the equipment and looked to be around 300 pounds. Kyprios had the catching glove and it looked like you could stop a truck with it. Yes. Little bald guy. He said he was 140 lbs. but you should have seen how big he looked. I wish I had a pic of it. It was insane. Are you guys thinking of this one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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