Training Camp battles

[darth_henning]

I'm surprised Shore is being sent down, but I think its mostly a space issue at this point. 

 

There's really no space for him at center or wing which is unfortunate. 

 

 

Hopefully we're lucky enough that he clears as I can see him taking Jones' role on the shut-down line next year. 

[travel_dude]

Pat Steinberg (@Fan960Steinberg) tweeted at 10:34 AM on Fri, Oct 02, 2015:

#Flames forward Drew Shore on waivers today according to colleague @renlavoietva.

I think he gets claimed which is too bad for us, but good for the player as I think he has earned a chance at the NHL level, we are just to crowded at forward.

 

As good a time to waive him as any, I guess.  Teams are still evaluating their prospects and some PTO's.  He is a RHS center, though, with is more.  Florida might take a chance on him, though the reason they traded him was his waiver status.

 

i think you could honstly flip a coin between Shore, Hathaway and Granland IMO.  i think all 3 have been solid and I"m not sure I oculd say 1 has stood out over the other. I think a lot of people are going to lean Hathaway but I think that has more to do with him exceding expctations then how he has played.if you just focus on the quality of play and remove what your expectations where, I think Hathaway has a good camp but not enough to uspeate Shore/Granland and of course if its a tie i think you keep the player you might end up losing on waivers.

 

I woudn't worry about waivers with Wilson I think he clears no problem and even if he didn't i don' think it would matter. he started off better then those guys but i don't think has played as well recently. he would be my pick for the 7th dman role strickly based on the fact that i don't lke the idea of any young dman in the 7th dman role, I want them to play. I think Kulak has had the better camp then wotherspoon and right now to me is showing more upside so with Brodie sidlelined longer term that may give him the inside track. if it was a matter of finding someone to play 13-15 mins a night i'm not so sure Kulak would make the team but there is potential they'll need someone on some nights to play over 15 and right now in that role I lean Kulak at least while Brodie is out.

 

Shore is out.

 

Kulak has impressed, and I think he is a callup at some point.  Spoon has had a low event camp, which is good for a shutdown d-man.  Wilson may get signed, but he will start in the AHL, me thinks.  Signing him and waiving him is better than no contract at all.

He can be rotate into the lineup for a month without facing waivers again.

 

So, I think Spoon and Nakladal are the 6th and 7th D.  That way, you can use Nakladal sparingly to start.  He has pro experience, just not NA pro experience.

 

I like Byron for the PK.  I think he really excelled in that role last season and you don't really replace that with Granlund or Hathaway.

 

Byron is one of the better PK'ers no doubt.  I think you are under-rating Granlund on PK.  He was quite effective in that role last season.

[JTech780]

I dunno. I don't think he does. But I wouldn't be fussed if he did. We would lose a contract. That helps if we think there is a good option on a waiver claim later, or signing a FA out of college or elsewhere.

I think a few teams might be interested in a 6'3" RHS center who can skate and win draws.

[cccsberg]

The reality is that Granlund and Hathaway showed better than some waiver eligible guys.  They likely get cut, but I think it is based on their situation.  Raymond is on thin ice right now.  One more bad pre-season game and he is out.  Last night he was the most offensive, but for all that, he still tripped over the blue lines or fell with the puck or had offense die on his stick.

 

It probably doesn't hurt to send Byron down.  He likely isn't claimed.  I like his forechecking and possession game, but not so much his offense.  Shore is going to be a good player, once he is played consistently.  

 

The Kulak/Nakladal/Wotherspoon/Wilson decision is a real tough one.  Wilson is the only one that would face waivers if we signed him.

 

I am open to keeping one of Bollig or Engelland, but not both.  But, Hartley is going to lobby to keep both, because he loves their game (at least the physical side of it).  The ball is in Treliving's court right now.  He can let the coach decide or he can make the tough decisions that most benefit the club, for now and for the future.  I get the sense that some of his opinions are slightly different than Bob's.  

I agree with either Bollig or Engelland.  With the additions of Bouma and Ferland, plus Bollig I believe we have enough toughness to be able to send Engelland down and keep Kulak/Wotherspoon/Nakladal to fill out the 5-7D roles until Brodie comes back, then we'll see what Smid brings when he is ready.

[cross16]

Dissapointing news on Shore. I don't agree obviously and I do think he will get claimed. i think he outplayed most of the guys in the battle for those last spots and still has upside to tap.

[cccsberg]

I'm surprised Shore is being sent down, but I think its mostly a space issue at this point. 

 

There's really no space for him at center or wing which is unfortunate. 

 

 

Hopefully we're lucky enough that he clears as I can see him taking Jones' role on the shut-down line next year. 

I also like him for the future, but really he did not stand out outside of FO's this preseason and someone has to go.  

 

Still more difficult choices to make.

[darth_henning]

I also like him for the future, but really he did not stand out outside of FO's this preseason and someone has to go.  

 

Still more difficult choices to make.

 

Yeah. 

 

We still have Bollig, Byron, Colborne (IR?) Granlund, Hathaway and Raymond fighting for one LW spot and 13th forward. 

 

That's a few good options (and a couple not so good ones). 

 

Defense for the bottom two and 7th is also still flexible. 

 

 

But overall its nice to have too many options rather than too few. 

 

 

Since you mentioned Faceoffs (which I didn't realize he'd done so well in) Stajan's contract comes up in two years right? I wonder if Shore might slot in as his replacement as faceoff guy for the bottom 6 even next year? assuming we keep him.

[travel_dude]

Yeah. 

 

We still have Bollig, Byron, Colborne (IR?) Granlund, Hathaway and Raymond fighting for one LW spot and 13th forward. 

 

That's a few good options (and a couple not so good ones). 

 

Defense for the bottom two and 7th is also still flexible. 

 

 

But overall its nice to have too many options rather than too few. 

 

 

Since you mentioned Faceoffs (which I didn't realize he'd done so well in) Stajan's contract comes up in two years right? I wonder if Shore might slot in as his replacement as faceoff guy for the bottom 6 even next year? assuming we keep him.

I have heard it that Arnold's FO number were the best on the baby Flames last year.  Progression wise, I would suggest that Arnold is the best suited of our prospects to take over for Stajan.  Colborne is another choice, but not if his wingers include Bollig.

[robrob1974]

I think a few teams might be interested in a 6'3" RHS center who can skate and win draws.

You gotta remember they need to play him as well. How many teams does he fit right now?

I also wonder where our prospects and youth would fit on good teams.

We evaluate our players in relation to our own guys. How NHL ready are they on Stanley Cup contenders or a top 10 team in the league?

[The_People1]

Dissapointing news on Shore. I don't agree obviously and I do think he will get claimed. i think he outplayed most of the guys in the battle for those last spots and still has upside to tap.

 

I felt he was just a step too slow all the time. 

 

Some guys barely move their feet and they fly. Others, like Drew Shore, work 110% every stride pushing 10,000 rpm only to move at an "okay" speed.  He's a bit faster than Max Reinhart, Hanowski, etc but if he was a more natural skater, he would be a "for sure" NHLer.

[robrob1974]

I felt he was just a step too slow all the time.

Some guys barely move their feet and they fly. Others, like Drew Shore, work 110% every stride pushing 10,000 rpm only to move at an "okay" speed. He's a bit faster than Max Reinhart, Hanowski, etc but if he was a more natural skater, he would be a "for sure" NHLer.

That's the way I saw him last year as well.

Are the cuts on the main site? They're not showing up on the Mobile app.

[JTech780]

Roger Millions (@RogMillions) tweeted at 11:43 AM on Fri, Oct 02, 2015:

#Flames cuts today. Prospects Hathaway, Sieloff, Morrison all off to Stockton. Drew Shore on waivers. Could be picked by another team.

[cross16]

While I agree Shore is not a pretty skater or a great skater I don't really agree on your take he isn't fast enough but that's fine. I didn't see any issues for him moving around the ice at all.

 

Acording to twitter, Seiloff, Morrison and Hathaway are also being "cut" today.

[Kulstad]

http://flames.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=781410

 

The Calgary Flames announced today that they have assigned five players to their American Hockey League affiliate, the Stockton Heat: Garnet Hathaway ©, Kenney Morrison (D), Jakub Nakladal (D), Patrick Sieloff (D) and Tyler Wotherspoon (D). In addition to the assigned players, Drew Shore © has been placed on waivers.

 

Calgary has 29 players remaining at training camp (3x goalies, 9x defencemen, 17x forwards).

[JTech780]

A little surprised Nakladal was sent down, thought he had played well.

Kulak has to be the surprise of camp this year. The guy was playing in the ECHL last year. He has tremendous skating ability, for me his decision making was suspect in years past, so if he has fixed that area of his game he will be a great asset going forward.

[cross16]

Kulak is definetly this years Jooris, which is fantastic for the Flames. They needed a dman or two under either ELCs or cheaper contracts to start pushing for roster spots and provide th eFlames options should they be able to move a Smid or Engelland next offseason or lose Russell.

 

not to discount what Kulak has done at all, but I think the final decision probablly came down to Kulaks' LH shot very Nakladal's RH shot. I think Kulak was the best of bunch when it came to LH shot and becuase the Flames seem very determined to have balance on the d core i'm not so sure they would have replaced Brodie with a RH shot.

 

Be interesting to see if Wilson is actually considering as part of the roster or just being kept for depth while they figure out whats up with Smid. Smid has been cleared for contact so it's very possible that he start the season on IR and if so does signing Wilson make sense at that point?

[kehatch]

The roster is really clearing up now:

 

Forwards:

 

Roster (15): Frolik, Hudler, Jones, Backlund, Raymond, Stajan, Bouma, Bollig, Jooris, Gaudreau, Monahan, Byron, Ferland, Granlund, Bennett

IR: Colborne

 

Defence:

 

Roster (7): Hamilton, Wideman, Giordano, Engelland, Russell, Kulak, Wilson

IR: Brodie, Smid

 

Goalie:

 

Roster (3): Hiller, Ramo, Ortio

 

That leaves two more cuts to come.  Presumably one forward and a goalie.  Though they could run with three goalies and cut a defender or forward.  

 

Good on Kulak and Granlund for making the cut.  I am disappointed (but not surprised) to see Raymond stick over Shore.

[JTech780]

The roster is really clearing up now:

Forwards:

Roster (14): Frolik, Hudler, Jones, Backlund, Raymond, Stajan, Bouma, Bollig, Jooris, Gaudreau, Monahan, Byrone, Ferland, Granlund

IR: Colborne

Defence:

Roster (7): Hamilton, Wideman, Giordano, Engelland, Russell, Kulak, Wilson

IR: Brodie, Smid

Goalie:

Roster (3): Hiller, Ramo, Ortio

That leaves one more cut to come. Presumably a goalie. Though they could run with three goalies and cut a defender or forward.

Good on Kulak and Granlund for making the cut. I am disappointed (but not surprised) to see Raymond stick over Shore.

You forgot Bennett. Two more cuts coming and I think they will both be forwards.

Jermain Franklin (@TSNJFranklin) tweeted at 1:05 PM on Fri, Oct 02, 2015:

Hartley's message to Wotherspoon "you need to be a little tougher on yourself... more demanding, you let those 2 guys step in front of you"

Interesting quote from Hartley.

[cross16]

The roster is really clearing up now:

 

Forwards:

 

Roster (14): Frolik, Hudler, Jones, Backlund, Raymond, Stajan, Bouma, Bollig, Jooris, Gaudreau, Monahan, Byrone, Ferland, Granlund

IR: Colborne

 

Defence:

 

Roster (7): Hamilton, Wideman, Giordano, Engelland, Russell, Kulak, Wilson

IR: Brodie, Smid

 

Goalie:

 

Roster (3): Hiller, Ramo, Ortio

 

That leaves one more cut to come.  Presumably a goalie.  Though they could run with three goalies and cut a defender or forward.  

Good on Kulak and Granlund for making the cut.  I am disappointed (but not surprised) to see Raymond stick over Shore.

 

You missed Bennett (Flames website did too).

 

I think 1 forward and 1 goalie are going to go. I think its between Byron- Granland for the forward becuase I think if they were going to cut Raymond they would have done it by now.

[kehatch]

You forgot Bennett. Two more cuts coming and I think they will both be forwards.

 

You missed Bennett (Flames website did too).

 

I think 1 forward and 1 goalie are going to go. I think its between Byron- Granland for the forward becuase I think if they were going to cut Raymond they would have done it by now.

 

Yikes, thanks.  My guess is Granlund gets the axe due to his contract status.  There is also a lot of chatter that the Flames will carry 3 goalie and go with 6D.  At least in the short term. If that is the case my guess is Wilson is gone.  Either signed to a deal and put in the NHL or just cut.  

[cross16]

You forgot Bennett. Two more cuts coming and I think they will both be forwards.

Jermain Franklin (@TSNJFranklin) tweeted at 1:05 PM on Fri, Oct 02, 2015:

Hartley's message to Wotherspoon "you need to be a little tougher on yourself... more demanding, you let those 2 guys step in front of you"

Interesting quote from Hartley.

 

Very intresting becuase this is also the 2nd time this preseason he has called out Wotherspoon. Told him earlier he need to not play as "nice" and now this. this is part of the reason I've never been a big fan of Spoon even in his draft year. Doesn't play with any edge in any shape of the word. Really tough to find a niche in the NHL as a defensive dman (which he has to be) if you play with Zero edge. I'm not asking him to plow guys through the boards, but you need an edge.

 

I usually don't like being dramatic, but this is becoming a huge year for Wotherspoons future. I'm not pushing any panic button becuase as i've said before he was finally healthy in camp but he's been passed now and more talent is coming. He needs to really take a step forwrad this year in the A to put himself back on the radar or he'll probably be out of this organization pretty quickly (pretty sure he'll be waiver eligible next year).

[cccsberg]

OK, just heard a while ago on radio 960 that Hathaway, Seiloff, Wotherspoon, Morrison and Nakladal sent down to Stockton.  D is set for now if they keep 7 guys (Kulak plus vets plus PTO Wilson, 2 injured).  Still 17 Forwards needing to get to 13/14/15(Colborne injury).  And still 3 goalies.

[Kulstad]

OK, just heard a while ago on radio 960 that Hathaway, Seiloff, Wotherspoon, Morrison and Nakladal sent down to Stockton.  D is set for now if they keep 7 guys (Kulak plus vets plus PTO Wilson, 2 injured).  Still 19 Forwards needing to get to 13/14/15(Colborne injury).  And still 3 goalies.

 

*cough* http://fans.flames.nhl.com/community/topic/21762-training-camp-battles/?p=681672*cough*

 

[cccsberg]

Very intresting becuase this is also the 2nd time this preseason he has called out Wotherspoon. Told him earlier he need to not play as "nice" and now this. this is part of the reason I've never been a big fan of Spoon even in his draft year. Doesn't play with any edge in any shape of the word. Really tough to find a niche in the NHL as a defensive dman (which he has to be) if you play with Zero edge. I'm not asking him to plow guys through the boards, but you need an edge.

 

I usually don't like being dramatic, but this is becoming a huge year for Wotherspoons future. I'm not pushing any panic button becuase as i've said before he was finally healthy in camp but he's been passed now and more talent is coming. He needs to really take a step forwrad this year in the A to put himself back on the radar or he'll probably be out of this organization pretty quickly (pretty sure he'll be waiver eligible next year).

Hartley's trying to mentor him and prod him further.  Hopefully he is able to do it, that he wants it enough and makes that next step.  Next year some spots may open up but with Nakladal, Morrison, Kylington, Andersson, Culkin, Sieloff and Hickey coming on strong next year its now or never.  Just push through kid, you can do it.

[travel_dude]

 

 

 

Yikes, thanks.  My guess is Granlund gets the axe due to his contract status.  There is also a lot of chatter that the Flames will carry 3 goalie and go with 6D.  At least in the short term. If that is the case my guess is Wilson is gone.  Either signed to a deal and put in the NHL or just cut.  

 

 

I would like to think that Bollig and Raymond are the ones to go, but I have been off-base so far.  Byron could use playing time in the 

AHL, since he hasn't been outstanding so far, and he really hasn't had any playing time in the last 6 months.  In my opinion, he is more versatile than Bollig.  Raymond sticking would be an insult to the motto of "always earned".

 

Granlund being cut could be explained away by the waiver status, but that is BS.  If his play was equal to the play of Bollig or Raymond, I could buy that.

 

The funny thing about Kulak was last camp, he came in with a better chance than Culkin, but Culkin had the better camp and got the spot in the AHL.  This year seemed the opposite.  Culkin had a good start to camp, but Kulak got better.  Culkin's injury derailed yet another season.