Mark Giordano Wants $9mil

[The_People1]

No one has even whispered about Hudler and he is in the same position. 

 

Hudler's omission from the news validates Giordano's importance over Hudler.  The Flames are nearing the salary cap ceiling.  The way to manage the cap going forward is to sign your most expensive players first and then see how much money is left over for the others.  Giordano is priority while Hudler is next.  Thus, we need to talk about Giordano's deal first.

[Flame111]

Well considering BT said as soon as the season was over that Giordano was his priority I think you will be wrong with your assessment of the situation. I don't think BT will be stupid about the number but I also don't think he wants to destroy the goodwill built amongst this team coming off the success from the season.

 

BT made those comments prior to an opening offer from Gio's agent of 9 million which even the "hurry and sign crowd" supporting an off-season extension as soon as possible has to take pause on. You can not pay 9 million to Gio. 

 

If there was going to be a off-season extension I think we would have seen it by now. They are too far apart. 

There is nothing wrong with taking Gio into the season without the extension. It has happened before. Iginla did the same thing, in fact he went to camp without a contract that season and was UFA before he got his contract. Everyone should start to prepare themselves for this and there is no need to get your knickers in a knot over it. 

There is a full season of Gio ahead and to me, the option to take him into next season without a contract is prudent for many reasons. 

 

(1) His starting number is absurd at 9 million. (Blame his Agent if you want)

 

(2) Evaluation - you need confirm his performance is still elite post injury. (No one knows if he is fully recovered)

 

(3) As has been discussed (age is a factor) and with it long term Cap consequences. 

 

(4) If injury occurs again in the season that is a risk that needs to be reviewed. 

 

This is just business and BT's job is to act in the club's best interests. Gio's agent is acting solely in his client's interest. This is the way it works. 

IMO it is much more in Gio's interest to sign a value contract asap given the risk of injury, his age and with the addition of Hamilton. We already know the Flames won a round of playoff hockey without him. Not saying they are not a better team with him but the crazy numbers I see being thrown around for Gio just don't work. 

 

BT should remain as flexible as possible and keep as many options on the table for the club as he can for as long as he can. He is doing his job if he does so. 

[MAC331]

BT made those comments prior to an opening offer from Gio's agent of 9 million which even the "hurry and sign crowd" supporting an off-season extension as soon as possible has to take pause on. You can not pay 9 million to Gio. 

 

If there was going to be a off-season extension I think we would have seen it by now. They are too far apart. 

There is nothing wrong with taking Gio into the season without the extension. It has happened before. Iginla did the same thing, in fact he went to camp without a contract that season and was UFA before he got his contract. Everyone should start to prepare themselves for this and there is no need to get your knickers in a knot over it. 

There is a full season of Gio ahead and to me, the option to take him into next season without a contract is prudent for many reasons. 

 

(1) His starting number is absurd at 9 million. (Blame his Agent if you want)

 

(2) Evaluation - you need confirm his performance is still elite post injury. (No one knows if he is fully recovered)

 

(3) As has been discussed (age is a factor) and with it long term Cap consequences. 

 

(4) If injury occurs again in the season that is a risk that needs to be reviewed. 

 

This is just business and BT's job is to act in the club's best interests. Gio's agent is acting solely in his client's interest. This is the way it works. 

IMO it is much more in Gio's interest to sign a value contract asap given the risk of injury, his age and with the addition of Hamilton. We already know the Flames won a round of playoff hockey without him. Not saying they are not a better team with him but the crazy numbers I see being thrown around for Gio just don't work. 

 

BT should remain as flexible as possible and keep as many options on the table for the club as he can for as long as he can. He is doing his job if he does so. 

I don't think the priority or timing matters all that much, I wouldn't read anything into it. BT has had a busy schedule up until this point.

He will have a new contract before camp.

[Flame111]

I don't think the priority or timing matters all that much, I wouldn't read anything into it. BT has had a busy schedule up until this point.

He will have a new contract before camp.

 

I don't think so, I'll make a friendly bet with you... 

 

Simply because from the GM's perspective, it makes more sense to wait. What if Hudler explodes and total chemistry occurs on the top line Hudler is putting up 2 ppg in all different situations. Now the geography changes... 

That opening number from Gio's Agent is just way too high. I say no contract prior to camp... It makes sense to evaluate Gio post injury...

[Flyerfan52]

I don't think so, I'll make a friendly bet with you... 

 

Simply because from the GM's perspective, it makes more sense to wait. What if Hudler explodes and total chemistry occurs on the top line Hudler is putting up 2 ppg in all different situations. Now the geography changes... 

That opening number from Gio's Agent is just way too high. I say no contract prior to camp... It makes sense to evaluate Gio post injury...

The opening $s from Gio's agent are too high.

Also against a panic signing because "OMG, He's only got 1 year left before he becomes UFA & could walk for nothing" is that this years free agent frenzy resulted in reasonable contracts rather than the over payments we'd become used to.

Somewhere Franson is still waiting for a call from his agent saying some team offered him $6 million long term (his opening UFA gambit).

 

Let the summer pass & see if Gio wants an extention before or after the season begins with him proving himself fully recovered. Adding Hamilton has already made the D stronger while adding a strong vet via trade or on a reasonable short term contract like Ehrhoff (Franson isn't the only UFA left) makes Gio less of a need on D & we do have others with a strong work ethic to assume the captaincy. So that basically removes all the bullets from his agent's gun.

******************************************

I prefer to keep Gio & was originally prepared to do so & live with the consequences. Reading the various arguments I'm seeing other possible scenarios so am trying to keep sentimental feelings out of it.

If we do end up with a D that makes Gio expendable he can be traded unless ready for a reasonable extention.

Expectations of a huge cash in as UFA @ 32 should be tempered after this season.

[OilersAreHighlyFlammable]

I want him at 7M

I feel like that was where the bar was set in the previous CBA negotiations and GMs paying more doesn't fit into that cap system they created.

That elite money doesnt fit in this cap world and Chicago is proving it.

Gio should be at 7 or less and that fits others into the system when they earn their raises. If he wants more, trade him. We need players that fit into what we are trying to build. As a player and what he brings does fit, but not at such a high cost.

I agree with others. He has had 1.5 years of being a really good player, where as other years he wasn't this good.

I literally lol whenever I think about the Kane and Toews contracts.

They're just..so...baaad. I mean, it's not even one either. It's TWO IDENTICAL ridiculous contracts! LOL

[420since1974]

Ya, I'm finding myself slipping down on what I'd pay Giordano.

 

Under $7M for no more than 3 years would probably take the Flames to the point where he can be easily replaced via trade or UFA.

 

Whether or not he'd accept that is another thing.

[swtrooper]

I literally lol whenever I think about the Kane and Toews contracts.

They're just..so...baaad. I mean, it's not even one either. It's TWO IDENTICAL ridiculous contracts! LOL

  Yeah it s crazy  money but they also won 3 cups. Each one of them won the Conn Smythe for MVP of playoffs. When players accomplish stuff like this, they get paid for it and teams will pay them to stay.  Subban, Parise, and Suter make similar money and haven't done crap in comparison. Not even Crosby and Malkin can touch what they ve done and look at the money they make.

 

 Not to mention $10 mil per season will probably be average for superstar players 5 yrs down the road and many of them wont have done as much as Kane or Toews.

[kehatch]

I literally lol whenever I think about the Kane and Toews contracts.

They're just..so...baaad. I mean, it's not even one either. It's TWO IDENTICAL ridiculous contracts! LOL

They just won a cup with those contracts. I don't have a problem with big contracts. What I would have a problem with is a team in a rebuild paying a 30+ year old that kind of money. By the time we are competitive the rough years of the contract will just be starting.

[jefsmi]

 The issue for Gio is term, 5 years or less at 8 mill or less would be ok, this would have him ending as our young guys approach free agency. The issue would be 8-9 mill at 7 to 8 years, those last 3 years would be crippling to the team. I suspect the term is where the issue lies.

With Hamilton on the team it drastically changes managements thinking towards this contract. Before they would probably have given a 7-8 year deal; now I expect they are holding firm at 5 years. 

Gio is a cornerstone of the team and its captain, I love the guy and want him signed. That said it would be interesting to see what would come back if he still isnt signed by the trade deadline.

[travel_dude]

 The issue for Gio is term, 5 years or less at 8 mill or less would be ok, this would have him ending as our young guys approach free agency. The issue would be 8-9 mill at 7 to 8 years, those last 3 years would be crippling to the team. I suspect the term is where the issue lies.

With Hamilton on the team it drastically changes managements thinking towards this contract. Before they would probably have given a 7-8 year deal; now I expect they are holding firm at 5 years. 

Gio is a cornerstone of the team and its captain, I love the guy and want him signed. That said it would be interesting to see what would come back if he still isnt signed by the trade deadline.

 

The only way Gio gets an 8 year deal, is if the AAV is a lot lower, as in $6m.  That is not crippling with the cap increasing at a normal rate.  Gio could retire at age 38 with no recapture penalty, or even sooner.  His true salary in those years would be about half of his first years, so he would be making the most of it in the first 3-4 years.

[Flyerfan52]

Gio will be 32 by the time the season starts. I'm wondering if he'd be open to a 3-4 year extention with a cap hit of 7-7.5 per. Every year carries the same true $s (avoiding recature while letting him make maximum $s should he retire for any reason before the contract expires) but an accelerated bonus structure.

Something like 6-6.5 & 1.0 bonus the 1st year with 5-5.5 & 2.0 every year after. Players seem to like the guarantee of the bonus as it's payable regardless. Decrease salary & up bonus if he prefers but find an agreement.

When the contract ends yearly contracts of 1 year based on the previous season like  Lidstrom & Selanne did. He could play as long as both he & the team thought he was viable while avoiding the dreaded 35+ contract.

[MAC331]

Gio will be 32 by the time the season starts. I'm wondering if he'd be open to a 3-4 year extention with a cap hit of 7-7.5 per. Every year carries the same true $s (avoiding recature while letting him make maximum $s should he retire for any reason before the contract expires) but an accelerated bonus structure.

Something like 6-6.5 & 1.0 bonus the 1st year with 5-5.5 & 2.0 every year after. Players seem to like the guarantee of the bonus as it's payable regardless. Decrease salary & up bonus if he prefers but find an agreement.

When the contract ends yearly contracts of 1 year based on the previous season like  Lidstrom & Selanne did. He could play as long as both he & the team thought he was viable while avoiding the dreaded 35+ contract.

Makes sense to me. I would just like this waiting over with. LOL

[DirtyDeeds]

Ya, I'm finding myself slipping down on what I'd pay Giordano.

 

Under $7M for no more than 3 years would probably take the Flames to the point where he can be easily replaced via trade or UFA.

 

Whether or not he'd accept that is another thing.

I am curious who you had in mind to "easily replace him with" via UFA or available via trade that we could afford let alone sign for less.

[kehatch]

I am curious who you had in mind to "easily replace him with" via UFA or available via trade that we could afford let alone sign for less.

It's not easy. But the Flames went a long way in the Hamilton pickup. That isn't to say we shouldn't keep both, because we should if we can. But it does give the Flames options if they can't sign him to a contract that makes sense.

[AlbertaBoy12]

It's not easy. But the Flames went a long way in the Hamilton pickup. That isn't to say we shouldn't keep both, because we should if we can. But it does give the Flames options if they can't sign him to a contract that makes sense.

I think its been said by myself and others, hamilton and brodie could very well end up being the first pairing next season. Im not suggesting trading Gio, but in my opinion his value isent the same as it was before the hamilton deal. IF we were to trade him our top 4 would be different, but we would get assets back and lots of them so who knows. I really dont see the flames signing him unless they get a value deal, as I said the chara contract in boston is a good example of what can happen with aging dman.

[kehatch]

I think its been said by myself and others, hamilton and brodie could very well end up being the first pairing next season. Im not suggesting trading Gio, but in my opinion his value isent the same as it was before the hamilton deal. IF we were to trade him our top 4 would be different, but we would get assets back and lots of them so who knows. I really dont see the flames signing him unless they get a value deal, as I said the chara contract in boston is a good example of what can happen with aging dman.

Giordano scares me even more then Chara. He hasn't played at this level most of his career and he has been a huge injury risk the last couple of seasons.

I think Giordano is owed a massive amount of credit for the Flames turn around. He is constantly credited as being a large part of the culture shift. In a perfect world we reward him with a good contract that doesn't handicap us down the road.

But we CAN'T handicap ourselves down the road. We just can't. If we have to to keep him then we don't keep him.

But I say again, I think the Flames will find away to sign him and that is what I am hoping for.

[phoenix66]

They just won a cup with those contracts. I don't have a problem with big contracts. What I would have a problem with is a team in a rebuild paying a 30+ year old that kind of money. By the time we are competitive the rough years of the contract will just be starting.

No they didn't. Those contracts both kick in next season, and we're seeing the result as theyve lost much of their base this offseason in Sharp, Oduya, etc.

Granted winning a cup or 2 buys a lot of latitude from their fans, but take a look over at Boston, we have to be careful not to follow their path. Yes they won a cup and went back to the final, but their devotion to aging vets like Chara cost them Hamilton, boychuk, etc

I want Gio to stay, but if signing him to a contract that jeopardizes signing a bennett, a monahan or a johnny down the road is it worth it?

Any deal over 5 years virtually guarantees a bad contract at the end of it, althougha great deal at the start. As much as having both gio and Hamilton in our top 4 is mouth watering, hamilton also makes gio tradeable if the deal is bad

like many others I have great faith a good deal will get done, but if it doesnt I also have faith BT will do the right thing

[AlbertaBoy12]

Giordano scares me even more then Chara. He hasn't played at this level most of his career and he has been a huge injury risk the last couple of seasons.

I think Giordano is owed a massive amount of credit for the Flames turn around. He is constantly credited as being a large part of the culture shift. In a perfect world we reward him with a good contract that doesn't handicap us down the road.

But we CAN'T handicap ourselves down the road. We just can't. If we have to to keep him then we don't keep him.

But I say again, I think the Flames will find away to sign him and that is what I am hoping for.

That's the part that scares me as well, and I'm sure management feels the same. He's great for this team, and is a large part of the culture change. But as you said over paying him could cause problems down the road or even if he's injured again next season. I feel like management has more bargaining chips for negotiating then gio does, but we'll see.

[kehatch]

No they didn't. Those contracts both kick in next season, and we're seeing the result as theyve lost much of their base this offseason in Sharp, Oduya, etc.

Granted winning a cup or 2 buys a lot of latitude from their fans, but take a look over at Boston, we have to be careful not to follow their path. Yes they won a cup and went back to the final, but their devotion to aging vets like Chara cost them Hamilton, boychuk, etc

I want Gio to stay, but if signing him to a contract that jeopardizes signing a bennett, a monahan or a johnny down the road is it worth it?

Any deal over 5 years virtually guarantees a bad contract at the end of it, althougha great deal at the start. As much as having both gio and Hamilton in our top 4 is mouth watering, hamilton also makes gio tradeable if the deal is bad

like many others I have great faith a good deal will get done, but if it doesnt I also have faith BT will do the right thing

Still, paying huge numbers to keep players like Stamkos, Toews, Subban, etc is part of the game. It's also part of why you still need steady prospects so you get value production from your ELCs.

But I agree on Giordano. We can't pay him that much. He should get a lot, but not Subban money.

[Flame111]

I'm glad to see that the board slowly starting to come around to taking pause with a monster contract for Gio. 

 

Gio can not get a Toews / Subban contract simply because of his age. BT has to do his due diligence on this because this contract will impact the Flames for years to come. 

 

I also think people should be very cautious about thinking the Cap is going to keep rising. 

 

The Canadian dollar is sinking like a rock and the Canadian economy is predicted to enter recession. All of these factors are going to shrink the Cap. 

Still, paying huge numbers to keep players like Stamkos, Toews, Subban, etc is part of the game. It's also part of why you still need steady prospects so you get value production from your ELCs.

But I agree on Giordano. We can't pay him that much. He should get a lot, but not Subban money.

 

Crosby Rule

 

I mentioned this awhile ago in another thread but history shows that if a team has a player that is one of the top 5 highest paid in the NHL that season they don't win the Cup. The only exception is one year with Crosby and the Penguins. 

 

Beyond that if a player is paid in the top 5, not only do they not win the Cup, they don't even make it to the Cup final. The only exception was Luo and the Nucks lost anyway in the Cup final. 

 

We have had the Cap for awhile now and if you start analyzing Cup winning team solely in terms of player's Cap hits in the year they win the Cup, you discover that dollars are fairly spread out on the team. We have a bit of a pattern on it now because we are ten years in on the Cap in the NHL.  I am almost willing to bet money that the Hawks don't win the Cup next year because of the Kane / Toews contracts... 

They simply won't have the money to spread into key depth positions. There is a reason why every player gets their name on the Cup... Depth is one constant through history on Cup winning teams... 

[420since1974]

I am curious who you had in mind to "easily replace him with" via UFA or available via trade that we could afford let alone sign for less.

 

 

I guess that I am in with the minority that believe that his skill level will drop by the time he hits 35.

 

I know that he doesn't have as many games on his body as most players do by his age, but they have been hard minutes due to the style he plays.

 

IMHO, he will be a 3rd or 4th D by the end of 2017/2018 and that level of defense-man is fairly easy to obtain by trade or UFA.

 

If he's still a Top 2 D at that time, then no, it won't be easy to replace him.

[travel_dude]

I guess that I am in with the minority that believe that his skill level will drop by the time he hits 35.

 

I know that he doesn't have as many games on his body as most players do by his age, but they have been hard minutes due to the style he plays.

 

IMHO, he will be a 3rd or 4th D by the end of 2017/2018 and that level of defense-man is fairly easy to obtain by trade or UFA.

 

If he's still a Top 2 D at that time, then no, it won't be easy to replace him.

 

It a hard thing to call.  Gio benefitted by getting tons of EV and PP time, playing with Brodie, Backlund, and Johnny.  There were less quality d-men on the team, so he got the passes or put great breakout passes to streaking players.  The only thing that has changed is that now Dougie is #2 or #3 on the team.

 

I wouldn't say that Gio's numbers will tail off significantly when he turns 35; they will reach a peak in a career year that he play 82 games.  His fitness level is still tops on the team.  His injury history is irrevelent to whether we sign him to an longer extension, as they can happen to anybody.  Stamkos, Kane, Kane, etc.

 

Keith and Weber play the same style, so it comes down to how you value leadership, work ethic and solid 2-way defensive play.  He isn't a Letang that bleeds goals.  He isn't a d-man that does nothing but stop goals.  He is a rare combo of both.

[CheersMan]

It’s not difficult to figure out who these two players are.  But before you do, look at their career numbers for a second and ask yourself who you gravitate towards as having the best career to date?

Why is one player deemed too old and expendable by some, but the other player requires a Brinks truck to deliver gold bunion for what could be eternity if there is no self-restraint?

[kehatch]

It’s not difficult to figure out who these two players are. But before you do, look at their career numbers for a second and ask yourself who you gravitate towards as having the best career to date?

Why is one player deemed too old and expendable by some, but the other player requires a Brinks truck to deliver gold bunion for what could be eternity if there is no self-restraint?

You can't use an offensive stat line to compare which is the better D. Giordano clearly has more impact to the Flames then Wideman.