Suggestion: Tyler Toffoli

[AlbertaBoy12]

Another Suggestion here, how does everyone feel about an offer sheet for tyler toffoli. Hes a RFA this summer, RW RHS, and hes got decent skill, size and speed. Before I get flamed for the idea of using an offer sheet, hes shown good potential, and good ability at the NHL level. We could probably get on him on a decent contract like 3 million at 3 or 4 years. I like the idea of giving up a second for him if we can get him to sign on. He would help our depth on the right side and give us a RW that we need. LA does have some cap issues moving forward, could be a steal for us.

 

http://www.mynhltraderumors.com/2014/06/16/compensation-for-signing-a-2013-14-restricted-free-agent/

 

The compensation for anyone thats curious.

 

For the record I dont know if we would be able to steal him for LA.

 

 

[cross16]

If you were to offer him that contract LA would say thank you and match it in a heartbeat. They aren't going to let Tyfolli go for just a 2nd round pick and I think paying him 3 mill a year is what he is going to make anyway. I think the only way you get them to second guess whether or not they should match it is if you go 5mill plus and that changes everything IMO. I'm not paying Tyfolli 5 mill nor am I giving up a 1st round pick.

[The_People1]

If you were to offer him that contract LA would say thank you and match it in a heartbeat. They aren't going to let Tyfolli go for just a 2nd round pick and I think paying him 3 mill a year is what he is going to make anyway. I think the only way you get them to second guess whether or not they should match it is if you go 5mill plus and that changes everything IMO. I'm not paying Tyfolli 5 mill nor am I giving up a 1st round pick.

 

Agreed.  I know the Kings are up against the cap but a 3-mil-per offer to Toffoli doesn't make them take the draft pick.  You have to pay upwards $5-mil-per and give up a 1st rounder and that ain't worth it for Toffoli, who i think is a second line complementary player who is a bit too passive and plays on the outside mostly.

[AlbertaBoy12]

even at 4.5 for a couple seasons it would be a steal. I think bennet in the middle, flanked withhim and  hudler would be dynamite. He played on a line in LA with jeff carter who did most of the work down the middle. Could be an interesting pick up.

[cross16]

even at 4.5 for a couple seasons it would be a steal. I think bennet in the middle, flanked withhim and  hudler would be dynamite. He played on a line in LA with jeff carter who did most of the work down the middle. Could be an interesting pick up.

 

4.5 and a 1st and a 3rd, no thanks. You'd be better off signing Frolik in FA IMO. you lose a bit of goal scoring between Tyfolli/Frolik but Frolik's defensive awareness would more then make up for it.

 

Tyfolli is a good, but not great player. Ideal for a 2nd line but not something Calgary should be paying 4.5 mill a year for with all the contracts they have up coming and definetly not an asset I would give up a first for.

[MAC331]

Love to get Toffoli but this isn't happening

[JTech780]

The guy I would offer sheet is Brandon Saad. Big power forward type, only 22. We can price him out of Chicago's range as well.

[AlbertaBoy12]

Brandon saad would be another interesting option to round out our forward line up going into next year.

[420since1974]

In the first place, I'm not a fan of offer sheets overall, they tend to make enemies of GMs (see Burke/Lowe).

 

As well, I don't feel that Toffili is worth the assets that it would take to acquire him or the salary that he'd cost.

 

Overpaying free agents now will cause cap problems in 2 - 3 years.

[AlbertaBoy12]

Even if we were to offersheet toffoli at 5 million/per for 2 years it wouldnt really cause cap problems when we have to start signing sam bennett etc. I dont see why we would care about pissing in dean lombardis cornflakes or any other gm. Most GMs would do the same thing if they had the oppurtunity and saw value.

[travel_dude]

Even if we were to offersheet toffoli at 5 million/per for 2 years it wouldnt really cause cap problems when we have to start signing sam bennett etc. I dont see why we would care about pissing in dean lombardis cornflakes or any other gm. Most GMs would do the same thing if they had the oppurtunity and saw value.

 

In 2016/17 both Johnny Hockey and Mony will be due raises from their ELC's.  Brodie will be making $4m+, Gio will likely be somewhere between $6 and $8m.  A two year offer sheet of $5m bumps right into that. 

 

An offer sheet is a one-way deal; you won't likely be able to trade with that GM again, and the other GM's will be affected by an inflated contract resulting in higher prices league wide.  ROR is a good example of a guy that is overpriced due to the OS Feaster made.  The other downside is that any of our RFA's are fair game, if not extended.

[AlbertaBoy12]

im aware of our contract situation but at that time some of the bigger deals for veterans will also be off the books.

 

I just dont see the problem with it.

[JTech780]

I think the whole making enemies with offer sheets is overblown. We made a trade with Colorado shortly after the Ryan O'Reilly fiasco. I think the Lowe/Burke issue was that Lowe offer sheeted Penner at way over market value.

I am not sure I would target Toffoli, I like him just not enough to give up a 1st round pick.

I would for Saad though. I think he is still only scratching the surface of how good he can be.

[Flyerfan52]

Is Toffoli

 

Even if we were to offersheet toffoli at 5 million/per for 2 years it wouldnt really cause cap problems when we have to start signing sam bennett etc. I dont see why we would care about pissing in dean lombardis cornflakes or any other gm. Most GMs would do the same thing if they had the oppurtunity and saw value.

Is 2 years of Toffoli worth a 1st & 3rd? It'll be his 2nd contract (bridge) so the qualifier on his next 1 = that 5 or he walks. You can't re-sign him for less & when other teams see a predicament they aren't going to help Treliving out by trading for the rights to offer him that.

 

& PO-ing GMs limits your chances of making fair (aka hockey trades) for as long as you keep that GM. Think about it. There are few offer sheets extended & even fewer not matched. Any offer made to a team after screwing them over will result in them demanding an overpayment in future trades.

The value recieved has top be seen as > the worth of the player lost. Dustin Penner was OSed @ 10 times his EL costing KLowe a 1st, 2nd & 3rd. 1 of the few that was never matched. Didn't work out well.

[AlbertaBoy12]

How good will he be in 2 years? 

 

brandon saad would be probably work out better for us I agree with Jtech. Im well aware of the fact that we would piss every gm off, im making suggestions is all.

[tachaudh]

I'd rather draft and develop my own Toffolis and Saads.

[Zirakzigil]

LA needs cheap young talent now, they wont be interested in draft picks unless you vastly overpay. The Flames are still in a rebuild and need to keep the 15th overall. 

[cross16]

I do think the whole idea of POing other GMs is a bit ridiculous. If offer sheets were such a bit deal the NHL and its GMs have had an opportunity to remove them in CBA negotations and elected to keep them. Everyone points to the Burke-Lowe incident but I think that is an isolated incident. No one talks about "bad blood" when Philly offersheeted Kesler and the Canucks had to match, or the Canucks and Blues each offer sheeting a player (Backes with the Blues and Bernier with the Nucks) to get back at one another, that was all fine. Burke-Lowe just became a story because 1. Lowe vastely overpaid for Penner and 2- Burke being Burke went on camera and ran his mouth about it. The story was more about the two of them bickering about it rather then the actual offer sheet.

 

The problem with offer sheets is not pissing off the league or other GMs its that they are designed right now as a tool to overpay. For the mid to low level salary bands the compensation is so low that a team would never want to lose a player for just that and then the high end compensation gets to be prohibitive for the team making the offer because IMO very few players are worth 4 or 5 draft picks.

[phoenix66]

I dont believe Toffoli is the kind of player you do an OS on , just because if you do , it better be for a Game changer.  I was on board with O'Reilly , and id definitely be on board for Dougie Hamilton. Players where you can justify the type of dollars youre going to have to pay to achieve it.

The only reason Burke was so livid over the Penner signing wasnt because he was Sheeted, he flat out stated hes ok with the process, it was that it was an extreme overpayment for a player that caused other players to be paid even more.

I dont believe Toffoli is that player .. hes very good, but not as good as the money that will be required.

[Flyerfan52]

I do think the whole idea of POing other GMs is a bit ridiculous. If offer sheets were such a bit deal the NHL and its GMs have had an opportunity to remove them in CBA negotations and elected to keep them. Everyone points to the Burke-Lowe incident but I think that is an isolated incident. No one talks about "bad blood" when Philly offersheeted Kesler and the Canucks had to match, or the Canucks and Blues each offer sheeting a player (Backes with the Blues and Bernier with the Nucks) to get back at one another, that was all fine. Burke-Lowe just became a story because 1. Lowe vastely overpaid for Penner and 2- Burke being Burke went on camera and ran his mouth about it. The story was more about the two of them bickering about it rather then the actual offer sheet.

 

The problem with offer sheets is not pissing off the league or other GMs its that they are designed right now as a tool to overpay. For the mid to low level salary bands the compensation is so low that a team would never want to lose a player for just that and then the high end compensation gets to be prohibitive for the team making the offer because IMO very few players are worth 4 or 5 draft picks.

Ancient history as Clarke was Gm in 2006. it's now 2 GMs later for the Flyers & the Orca don't have the same crew anymore either. But do you remember a trade of players that mattered since?

Or Vancouver & the Blues?

 

Even a hothead like BB paid the equivelent of an OS for Kessel but used it as the hammer.

************************************************************************

Personally I prefer my GM only uses the OS for a top ender like Homer tried with Weber (the 1 move/attempt by him that didn't get me POed).

You can overpay for a UFA or give more for an RFAs rights. A low OS (trying to scoop a pending RFA for 2nd or 3rd rounders) because you see that team in cap jail is a fools game. It'll be matched even if it means trading a vet to meet the cap but they certainly won't trade that vet to the team that put them in that position unless their offer blows all others out of the water.

Unless the OS return for Toffoli is unrealistic (like the return of a 1st+) they could trade Kopitar, Brown, Carter, Gaborik,etc. for a good return but less likely to the team putting them in that predicament.

Same with Saad. There would be a demand for Sharp, Hossa or even Versteeg @ 1 x 2.2.

Good teams find a way. Look @ what the Hawks lost after their 1st SC in decades. Many good players traded but loads of turnover but adding futures that got a 2nd Cup.

 

Depending on how badly the Flames want either a better option is to politely talk to their GM, offer a deal & make the offer dependant on the player(s) re-signing over the summer.  If he doesn't sign by training camp the offer is null & void. If the deal has sand the other GM will talk to the player & if he's likely to accept allow Treliving to talk contract to confirm he will sign. It's like an OS without actually submitting 1 of those stinkers. Either way you know if he's positive he wants to wear the crest.

[AlbertaBoy12]

Im not sure the way chicago is sitting now depending how much we offered saad that they wouldnt take the picks. It seems to me that chicago is going to be in over their heads sooner then later with the kane and toews deal.

 

But I agree with you it might work better if we really want Saad to try and make a trade.

[kehatch]

I think they move Sharp or even Seabrook before they move Saad.

[cross16]

I think its almost a guarantee Sharp gets moved this offseason.

 

The Blackhawks aren't going to move Saad IMO. I think they know full well that this is their last kick at the can with the current group and are prepared to make changes, IE move out a Sharp for example, in the offseason to re group but I think they see Saad as part of that core.

 

Between Tyfoli and Saad I actually think you might have a better shot at Tyfolli then Saad just given where both teams sit. I would argue LA is in worse cap shape then Chicago because at least Chicago has its starts (Kane, Toews, Keith) locked up and accounted for, while LA has to find a way to pay Kopitar next year. That being said, I think getting either is going to be very, very difficult.