Eric Roy

[travel_dude]

The Flames have until June 1st to sign the kid. He was tendered and rejected a "bona fide offer" last year, which had to be made to retain his rights. It was likely league minimum, so I can understand that he wanted to prove his worth a bit more before accepting a contract.

Do you think that the Flames make another offer in the next 2 weeks? One would think that an offer would have come by now, but the playoffs had him focusing on hockey. Now that the Wheaties are done, you have to think it is crunch time.

[JTech780]

I am on the fence with him. I am not sure what his upside is, at the same time we don't exactly have a wealth of defensive prospects.

 

Maybe let him reenter the draft and if he goes undrafted, see if he is open to an AHL contract. 

[travel_dude]

I am on the fence with him. I am not sure what his upside is, at the same time we don't exactly have a wealth of defensive prospects.

 

Maybe let him reenter the draft and if he goes undrafted, see if he is open to an AHL contract.

His biggest knock is that he hasn't really improved in any facet of his game. My feeling, though, is that you don't waste a draft pick (especially a D-man). Sign him and get him into the Flames system. See what he is like after a season or two in the AHL. I don't see him being any worse than Kulak (as an offensive D-man) or any of the other guys in that mold.

[cross16]

I was really on the fence until the whl playoffs and now I think you sign him. I don't know if he will play on the NHL, i would lean no, but I saw enough there to warrant a shot at it. He played well for Brandon, took key minutes and key matchups and performed well. Given his talent was already there that to me is a package worth trying out.

[zima]

Signing Nakladal could change the flames thinking on D-men  maybe they will go after a few more quality D-men from Europe jnust a thought. 

[DirtyDeeds]

Signing Nakladal could change the flames thinking on D-men  maybe they will go after a few more quality D-men from Europe jnust a thought. 

Oilers have dipped into the pool of EU D men last few years with little success. I guess until we can see how our scouting compares to the Oilers overseas scouting.  I will temper my expectations for now.

 

Our successes with overseas players like Roman Cervenka has been pretty much fruitless..

[travel_dude]

Oilers have dipped into the pool of EU D men last few years with little success. I guess until we can see how our scouting compares to the Oilers overseas scouting.  I will temper my expectations for now.

 

Our successes with overseas players like Roman Cervenka has been pretty much fruitless..

 

We have a few guys that have not borne fruit yet; Mattsson, Rashikov, new guy...

Ramo is an example of one they got somewhat right.

Cervenka is an example of setting the hopes too high for a player you think is a center, gets rare blood disease, no training camp, short season.  He could fit on several NHL teams that have space to exploit a player like that (goal scoring only).

 

Most of the Czechs we have signed/traded for have shown the right attitude (Horak, Smid, Hudler) and heart. Cervenka was not a great fit.  

[phoenix66]

Gotta admit i dont know enough about the kid (Roy) to have an opinion , but if , as stated earlier, he doesnt appear to have NHL written on him , then no , you dont sign him.. but if hes a project with potential , then sure.

 For Cervenka, i dont see him as the Bust many do..  outside of his own attitude (he obviously wanted to go home) .. all factors worked against him that year .. even Hudler wasnt great that year and hes meshed in just fine.

 i believed with a full season, healthy, and ready, his results would have been much different.. but we'll never know, cuz, well, he took his ball and went home.

[DirtyDeeds]

We have a few guys that have not borne fruit yet; Mattsson, Rashikov, new guy...

Ramo is an example of one they got somewhat right.

Cervenka is an example of setting the hopes too high for a player you think is a center, gets rare blood disease, no training camp, short season.  He could fit on several NHL teams that have space to exploit a player like that (goal scoring only).

 

Most of the Czechs we have signed/traded for have shown the right attitude (Horak, Smid, Hudler) and heart. Cervenka was not a great fit.  

True but most of those guys are drafted by us. Ramo was drafted elsewhere.

 

I am more talking about the signings of EU players who were never drafted or never tested the NHL waters before. Those players like cervenka picked up from KHL or other EU leagues like our Nakladal signing..

 

Edit: I am not trying to derail this thread....

[cross16]

I would sign Roy but I'm not going to be upset if they don't. He's got all the physical traits you would want and has great offensive instincts and while I think he has improved his defensive game somewhat its not to the level you would want of a prospect at his age and junior experience.

 

Would like him signed, but if they don't sign him i'll understand because I think at this point the odds are not good he'll see the NHL. Having said that given the physical tools and skill set he is a guy I'd like to take a flyer on and see if I'm wrong and because the Flames aren't exactly swimming in D prospects he can fit for at least the next 3 years.

[travel_dude]

I would sign Roy but I'm not going to be upset if they don't. He's got all the physical traits you would want and has great offensive instincts and while I think he has improved his defensive game somewhat its not to the level you would want of a prospect at his age and junior experience.

 

Would like him signed, but if they don't sign him i'll understand because I think at this point the odds are not good he'll see the NHL. Having said that given the physical tools and skill set he is a guy I'd like to take a flyer on and see if I'm wrong and because the Flames aren't exactly swimming in D prospects he can fit for at least the next 3 years.

 

He is the same age (younger actually) than Kulak and Culkin.  They played in the AHL last year, while Roy stayed in junior.

They bring their own set of tools, so I'm not sure why you give up on on but sign the other two.  I guess I just figure that you always need to bring in guys that work hard and have some skill, and see if they have the stuff to make it in the pro leagues.

 

Roy could be the next TJ Brodie or he could just be a career AHL; you just don't know with D-men.  

[cross16]

He is the same age (younger actually) than Kulak and Culkin.  They played in the AHL last year, while Roy stayed in junior.

They bring their own set of tools, so I'm not sure why you give up on on but sign the other two.  I guess I just figure that you always need to bring in guys that work hard and have some skill, and see if they have the stuff to make it in the pro leagues.

 

Roy could be the next TJ Brodie or he could just be a career AHL; you just don't know with D-men.  

All 3 are different players but mainly Kulak and Culkin continued to show improvement and progression in their games throughout their Junior careers while Roy flatlined and actually until this season was regressing. I think he took a step forward this year but taking a small step forward as a 20 year old overeager is worrisome if you want to label him a prospect.

 

You may not know but I can tell you with 100% certain that Roy is NOT the next TJ Brodie. Roy has shown no evidence at all to suggest that not even when he was drafted did he flash TJ Brodie potential. I'm not saying he can't play in the NHL but he is not TJ Brodie, not even close.

[travel_dude]

All 3 are different players but mainly Kulak and Culkin continued to show improvement and progression in their games throughout their Junior careers while Roy flatlined and actually until this season was regressing. I think he took a step forward this year but taking a small step forward as a 20 year old overeager is worrisome if you want to label him a prospect.

 

You may not know but I can tell you with 100% certain that Roy is NOT the next TJ Brodie. Roy has shown no evidence at all to suggest that not even when he was drafted did he flash TJ Brodie potential. I'm not saying he can't play in the NHL but he is not TJ Brodie, not even close.

I'm not as sure as you when it comes to prospects. I see good things in player, but they don't always have the heart, opportunity, or progression it takes to get to the pro level. I'm rooting for the kid, if no other reason than to see the first Metis make the NHL.

[Zirakzigil]

Sign him and see what he does. Hes got the offensive skillset, you can teach him defense. 

[cross16]

And to clarify I'm definetly not rooting against him. As I said my choice would be to sign him I will just understand the reasoning if they don't.

[travel_dude]

And to clarify I'm definetly not rooting against him. As I said my choice would be to sign him I will just understand the reasoning if they don't.

 

Agreed.  I am just expressing hope that a kid that was ranked 70-ish would end up being signed, even after some lack of growth. D-men can be like goalies, in that you don't see them reaching their ceiling until the mid-twenties. Like every other draft pick, I will cheer them on till they are no longer part of the team, much like you do.

[kehatch]

I think he gets signed. He is big and mobile. He plays both ends. Plus the Flames aren't stacked at the position.

But he is a long shot. This is a guy that was supposed to go top 60 (even top 30) but he fell off his draft year and slipped to the 5 round. Since then he has done more to show why he slipped rather then look like a top 60 pick.

If you are a 5+ round pick you need to do something special to get an NHL contract and Roy really hasn't done that. But the Flames have the space and the kid had some tools so I think a deal gets done.

[conundrumed]

With the Morrison and Nakladal signings, gotta wonder if Roy gets signed.

[travel_dude]

With the Morrison and Nakladal signings, gotta wonder if Roy gets signed.

 

Roy is more of a long-term project, like Rafikov and Kanzig.  I think he has more upside than Ramage and Cundari.

 

The Flames have quite a few 5/6/7 type D-men in the system or possibly ready to make the jump; Smid, Engelland, Wotherspoon, Diaz/Schlemko (UFA's).  In two years' time, we possibly have only Spoon and Schlemko left.  That leaves time to develop Morrison and Nakaldal as the replacements, and eventually bringing in Culkin or Rafikov.

 

The worse thing you can do is give up on D-men too early.  You need to bring them along and see if they remain the same, regress or excel.

[conundrumed]

Roy is more of a long-term project, like Rafikov and Kanzig.  I think he has more upside than Ramage and Cundari.

 

The Flames have quite a few 5/6/7 type D-men in the system or possibly ready to make the jump; Smid, Engelland, Wotherspoon, Diaz/Schlemko (UFA's).  In two years' time, we possibly have only Spoon and Schlemko left.  That leaves time to develop Morrison and Nakaldal as the replacements, and eventually bringing in Culkin or Rafikov.

 

The worse thing you can do is give up on D-men too early.  You need to bring them along and see if they remain the same, regress or excel.

From what I've been reading, he is terrible at D. 2nd pairing as an overager doesn't imply a whole lot of faith.

[travel_dude]

From what I've been reading, he is terrible at D. 2nd pairing as an overager doesn't imply a whole lot of faith.

 

Not everybody has a career arc like TJ or Jones.  Sometimes ya gotta wait.  There is little downside to signing him and bringing him to the AHL.  Think of some of the bums we have had there in the past.  We could do a lot worse, while waiting to see if he is worthwhile.

[conundrumed]

But I'd guess the depth chart puts him in the ECHL with the 2 recent signings.

[travel_dude]

So, we have the following (as far as I can tell), depending on who gets resigned:

Acolatse (RFA)

Culkin

Kulak

Sielof

Wotherspoon

Ramage (RFA)

Cundari (UFA)

Morrison

Nakladl

Yevenko

Kanzig

Stevenson

 

They are also trying to get Rafikov to America this summer, at least for the young stars.  That is 13 potential players for the Heat.  I doubt they re-up Cundari, Acostse.  Morrison and Spoon likely start with the Flames, and Nakladl is also possible.  If that is the case, consider Engellend and Schlemko gone. Ramage or Kulak are likely back with the ECHL.  That leaves a possible spot for Roy.

[cross16]

I havn't found a source to quote but I read somewhere that Rafikov is still under KHL contract for two more years so he won't be an AHL option next year.

 

So way I would see it

 

Culkin

Seilof

Morrison

Nakladl

Kulak

Kanizg

 

Are all very likely to be in the AHL. Possibly even Wotherspoon at least to start, I don't think wotherspoon earns a spot out of camp. Roy is behind all of those guys on the depth chart and I think Roy would be in the ECHL before Ramage and Kulak.That doesn't influence my decision to sign because if Roy has to start in the ECHL I have no problem with that, but I do think depth is working against him.

 

I also disagree with the notion of there is no "risk". There is risk with every contract you sign because every contract you sign counts against your 50 limit. If you sign too many guys that end up as busts you end up carrying guys on your 50 that prevent you from looking at other acquisitions. That's why you have to give careful consideration if you are going to give a player a contract against that 50 limit because you could be paying for it if it doesn't work out so there is a degree of risk. Ultimately the decision for the Flames is do we think this guy can develop into something that can help us or are we just carrying an AHL quality player. If the answer is the later my bet is you don't see him signed

[travel_dude]

I havn't found a source to quote but I read somewhere that Rafikov is still under KHL contract for two more years so he won't be an AHL option next year.

 

So way I would see it

 

Culkin

Seilof

Morrison

Nakladl

Kulak

Kanizg

 

Are all very likely to be in the AHL. Possibly even Wotherspoon at least to start, I don't think wotherspoon earns a spot out of camp. Roy is behind all of those guys on the depth chart and I think Roy would be in the ECHL before Ramage and Kulak.That doesn't influence my decision to sign because if Roy has to start in the ECHL I have no problem with that, but I do think depth is working against him.

 

I also disagree with the notion of there is no "risk". There is risk with every contract you sign because every contract you sign counts against your 50 limit. If you sign too many guys that end up as busts you end up carrying guys on your 50 that prevent you from looking at other acquisitions. That's why you have to give careful consideration if you are going to give a player a contract against that 50 limit because you could be paying for it if it doesn't work out so there is a degree of risk. Ultimately the decision for the Flames is do we think this guy can develop into something that can help us or are we just carrying an AHL quality player. If the answer is the later my bet is you don't see him signed

 

I saw the same story about Rafikov signing a deal, but there was also a quote from BT saying they wanted to bring him over this summer....

 

Pat Steinberg @Fan960Steinberg  ·  May 20

Couple #Flames notes from GM Treliving: they're working on getting 2013 pick Rushan Rafikov to Calgary for this summer's development camp.

 

As far as where he fits, that depends on who they decide to keep. and how many are ahead of him.