Brad Treliving - GM Tracking & Evaluation

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, CBTC-FLAMES-EDITION said:

If they thought he was a good GM he'd have a new contract by now. I have no problem with what BT has done. I have agreed with most of what he has done, it's just the moves haven't really worked out like they seemed they would. Players haven't played up to their standards consistently and work ethic hasn't been there. Sitting a 20 year old when a team's veterans are playing poorly seems misguided to. I know he hasn't played well but if you do it with him do it with everyone else. As an Atlanta Falcons fan, my interest has been drawn away from the troubles of this team the past few weeks but I have watched the losses and it has been frustrating. It has also shown me what a real leader can do when I watch and listen to Dan Quinn coach the Falcons. Leadership is missing on this team. 

The Michael Vick Falcons? Wow, that's easy to forget, football losers..

Arghh, I'm thinking out loud again...

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, DirtyDeeds said:

The reason gio struggled was he himself had just come back from injury, not because he missed Brodie. Gio was partnered with Hamilton too and they just did not do well while Hamilton was learning the new systems.

 

I agree with you Brodie has to learn covering the boards backwards again. He had learned to use his backhand to advantage. We must all remember that Brodie is also dealing with personal problems. His wife recently has been sick. 

 

When Brodie came back, the Gio/Brodie combo started playing better.  We still had Russell and Hamilton sitting around -20 each, though a lot of that was Russell/Wideman not just Rissell Hamilton.  I think Brodie is a great guy and its a shame that his wife has MS.  It's a hard blow.  It's painful to watch him struggle out there, because he really should be better and has shown that every other year.

[MAC331]

9 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

When Brodie came back, the Gio/Brodie combo started playing better.  We still had Russell and Hamilton sitting around -20 each, though a lot of that was Russell/Wideman not just Rissell Hamilton.  I think Brodie is a great guy and its a shame that his wife has MS.  It's a hard blow.  It's painful to watch him struggle out there, because he really should be better and has shown that every other year.

If BT were to do one key trade this season it would be to rid us of Wideman and get Brodie a better partner to play beside. If Stone is available we must have something a young building team could use. Trade Wideman for a 6th rounder like we got for Jones. Start cleaning this roster up.

[JTech780]

I am starting to think that maybe we do need a change at the top. Treliving has done a good job and there hasn't been any glaring mistakes that he has made. That being said I am not sure I like or understand how this team is constructed.

 

They aren't overly fast and they aren't overly big. In fact I would consider them one of the slower teams in the NHL and they are pretty average when it comes to size. Part of the problem is that some of the guys that do have size (Monahan, Hamilton) rarely use it.

 

We added Brouwer and Chiasson to address the size issue, but they lack skill and in the case of Brouwer is slower than molasses.

 

If you aren't going to be a big, physical team than you better be fast and Calgary just isn't either of those things, which ends up making them pretty mediocre.

 

I want a team that can play with pace, that will pressure the opposition all over the ice. I thought that's what GG was brought in to do, but now I am seeing that he just doesn't have the team to do it. The 3M line is the only line capable of playing that way and that's why they have been our best line all season.

[MAC331]

45 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

I am starting to think that maybe we do need a change at the top. Treliving has done a good job and there hasn't been any glaring mistakes that he has made. That being said I am not sure I like or understand how this team is constructed.

 

They aren't overly fast and they aren't overly big. In fact I would consider them one of the slower teams in the NHL and they are pretty average when it comes to size. Part of the problem is that some of the guys that do have size (Monahan, Hamilton) rarely use it.

 

We added Brouwer and Chiasson to address the size issue, but they lack skill and in the case of Brouwer is slower than molasses.

 

If you aren't going to be a big, physical team than you better be fast and Calgary just isn't either of those things, which ends up making them pretty mediocre.

 

I want a team that can play with pace, that will pressure the opposition all over the ice. I thought that's what GG was brought in to do, but now I am seeing that he just doesn't have the team to do it. The 3M line is the only line capable of playing that way and that's why they have been our best line all season.

I disagree on a change at the top however ownership may have the position of "OK we let you implement your changes so they better work or show us heading in a positive direction". I think BT has done some good in the right directions however his work is far from a finished product. I think he does need some key trades in order to make the team much better. I also think we have the right coach that needs a long leash not a short one to choke him with IMO it is the players that need to play better hockey within his systems. Chiasson flat out isn't working out. Brouwer is a better than average player but needs some speed beside him, I agree. Monahan and Hamilton are what they are and so long as they are smart with their play they are assets. I like Versteeg and the knowledge he provides but we shouldn't paint him as any kind of superstar, he was normally a 3rd line player even in his prime and is being used wrong IMO.

[JTech780]

3 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I disagree on a change at the top however ownership may have the position of "OK we let you implement your changes so they better work or show us heading in a positive direction". I think BT has done some good in the right directions however his work is far from a finished product. I think he does need some key trades in order to make the team much better. I also think we have the right coach that needs a long leash not a short one to choke him with IMO it is the players that need to play better hockey within his systems. Chiasson flat out isn't working out. Brouwer is a better than average player but needs some speed beside him, I agree. Monahan and Hamilton are what they are and so long as they are smart with their play they are assets. I like Versteeg and the knowledge he provides but we shouldn't paint him as any kind of superstar, he was normally a 3rd line player even in his prime and is being used wrong IMO.

 

I would consider Chiasson as having a better season than Brouwer. Brouwer is a non factor most nights, to the point where I am not even sure he played. Did he play last night, because I didn't see him do anything last night. At least Chiasson plays well defensively and gets in position to do things offensively, even if he doesn't bury his chances. Brouwer just doesn't get into positions to do anything. I have been extremely disappointed with Brouwer.

[cross16]

Brouwer was a bad signing. Said it right when they did it and continue to believe it. I thought he was the wrong direction for where this team should be going. It's probably Treliving's biggest mistake imo. Having said that, if that is your biggest mistake you are still doing ok. 

 

I'm not quite to your level JTech because I think this team is faster than you think and certainly wouldn't put them in the bottom of the NHL. They need to be faster I don't disagree but I also think we need to remember Treliving hasn't completed his 3rd year as a GM and he really wasn't handed a very good team at all. I don't think it's reasonable that after 3 years we can expect a GM would have his stamp on his team yet, especially when contracts like Smid, Stajan and Wideman really weight down his cap situation. 

[MAC331]

Just now, JTech780 said:

 

I would consider Chiasson as having a better season than Brouwer. Brouwer is a non factor most nights, to the point where I am not even sure he played. Did he play last night, because I didn't see him do anything last night. At least Chiasson plays well defensively and gets in position to do things offensively, even if he doesn't bury his chances. Brouwer just doesn't get into positions to do anything. I have been extremely disappointed with Brouwer.

Me as well but Brouwer is making 4.5M and will be harder to move than Chiasson at 875K. You never know maybe they move Brouwer by the TDL we don't need to be paying a 3rd line RW 4.5M. Chiasson I would be happier seeing him play 4th line minutes if they keep him at all.

[travel_dude]

4 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Brouwer was a bad signing. Said it right when they did it and continue to believe it. I thought he was the wrong direction for where this team should be going. It's probably Treliving's biggest mistake imo. Having said that, if that is your biggest mistake you are still doing ok. 

 

I'm not quite to your level JTech because I think this team is faster than you think and certainly wouldn't put them in the bottom of the NHL. They need to be faster I don't disagree but I also think we need to remember Treliving hasn't completed his 3rd year as a GM and he really wasn't handed a very good team at all. I don't think it's reasonable that after 3 years we can expect a GM would have his stamp on his team yet, especially when contracts like Smid, Stajan and Wideman really weight down his cap situation. 

 

To further your evaluation of team speed, it's painfully obvious to me that the way we play is resulting in slowness.  There is rarely a fast breakout that uses any speed we have.  When we do it, it's primarily Gaudreau, Brodie or Versteeg leading the charge.  That's fine except that they are the only ones moving at speed.  

 

Brouwer is a niche player, but only works in a situation where you have similar players with him.  A guy like Stastny compliments him.  We don't really have those players in the top 9.  Maybe Tkachuk.

[DirtyDeeds]

20 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

When Brodie came back, the Gio/Brodie combo started playing better.  We still had Russell and Hamilton sitting around -20 each, though a lot of that was Russell/Wideman not just Rissell Hamilton.  I think Brodie is a great guy and its a shame that his wife has MS.  It's a hard blow.  It's painful to watch him struggle out there, because he really should be better and has shown that every other year.

This makes no sense. If Gio/Brodie played better it couldn't be because he returned. It gave BH thge option to put his #1 combo together again and to move Hamilton down the depth chart and shelter him a bit.

 

They Gio/Brodie weren't playing while he was injured so how could they play better? The truth is the whole team played better when Brodie returned. Most teams would play when your #2 D returns to the lineup.

 

Yes he should be playing better. We are all with you bud.. lets get it together for her okay?

[JTech780]

So my biggest fear right now is that Treliving will make a panic move to try and shake this team out of funk. It really is the pert storm for that kind of mistake to be made. 

 

Treliving without a contract, fighting to keep his job, a team on the bubble of playoffs, a team in the midst of a free fall tailspin.

 

I am just afraid that we will see a Bennett + for Shattenkirk type of trade.

[MAC331]

9 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

So my biggest fear right now is that Treliving will make a panic move to try and shake this team out of funk. It really is the pert storm for that kind of mistake to be made. 

 

Treliving without a contract, fighting to keep his job, a team on the bubble of playoffs, a team in the midst of a free fall tailspin.

 

I am just afraid that we will see a Bennett + for Shattenkirk type of trade.

Let's hope not. It takes more courage to stay the course with your young core and not abandon the process. A move such as this would be short term window dressing in an attempt to make the playoffs and set you back going forward.

[travel_dude]

17 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

So my biggest fear right now is that Treliving will make a panic move to try and shake this team out of funk. It really is the pert storm for that kind of mistake to be made. 

 

Treliving without a contract, fighting to keep his job, a team on the bubble of playoffs, a team in the midst of a free fall tailspin.

 

I am just afraid that we will see a Bennett + for Shattenkirk type of trade.

 

It's a valid fear.  I doubt you see Bennett shipped for a D-man.  Bennett for Duchene or Landeskog maybe.  We don't have enough high-end scoring to ship out anyone that could provide it in the future.  Bennett would be a good fit in COL.  Duchene would be a good fit here.  I don't suggest that we give up on Bennett and do it, but if we are going to ship him out, I want a high end forward coming back.

[MAC331]

23 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

To further your evaluation of team speed, it's painfully obvious to me that the way we play is resulting in slowness.  There is rarely a fast breakout that uses any speed we have.  When we do it, it's primarily Gaudreau, Brodie or Versteeg leading the charge.  That's fine except that they are the only ones moving at speed.  

 

Brouwer is a niche player, but only works in a situation where you have similar players with him.  A guy like Stastny compliments him.  We don't really have those players in the top 9.  Maybe Tkachuk.

Maybe we have this all wrong and should not be worrying so much about Bennett providing a high level of offense this season. The way Backlund and that line have stepped up should allow Bennett the time to grow more as a C. We have Brouwer and should use him to bring Bennett along his season. I still think the mistake GG is making is not using Versteeg with Gaudreau and Monahan. It is time to move Chiasson down to either 4th line or further revolving Hathaway and Hamilton out of that spot. Right now I would waive Bouma down to the minors.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

Maybe we have this all wrong and should not be worrying so much about Bennett providing a high level of offense this season. The way Backlund and that line have stepped up should allow Bennett the time to grow more as a C. We have Brouwer and should use him to bring Bennett along his season. I still think the mistake GG is making is not using Versteeg with Gaudreau and Monahan. It is time to move Chiasson down to either 4th line or further revolving Hathaway and Hamilton out of that spot. Right now I would waive Bouma down to the minors.

 

TBH, I am more worried about Gaudreau.  he has never regressed in his career.  He's always been a positive +/- player.  They need to give him the best tools to work with to get back on top.  Make sure that Gio/Hammy are on the ice at the same time as him, EV and PP time.  On the PP, they need to put him where he is the most effective; off-wing, not manning the point.  Move him away from the players that are also struggling.

 

I am thinking of two possible lines:

Gaudreau-Monahan-Tkachuk

or

Gaudreau-Backlund-Frolik

 

Regarding Chaisson, Gully was very cutting in his assessment of Chaisson last night.  A minute and 40 second shift, where there were two opportunities to change.  The last part of the shift was him deciding to participate in a rush, becuase "they are scoring so much these days".  That was the last shift Chaisson played with Gaudreau.  He will be luck to get 4th line minutes next game.  

[JTech780]

3 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

TBH, I am more worried about Gaudreau.  he has never regressed in his career.  He's always been a positive +/- player.  They need to give him the best tools to work with to get back on top.  Make sure that Gio/Hammy are on the ice at the same time as him, EV and PP time.  On the PP, they need to put him where he is the most effective; off-wing, not manning the point.  Move him away from the players that are also struggling.

 

I am thinking of two possible lines:

Gaudreau-Monahan-Tkachuk

or

Gaudreau-Backlund-Frolik

 

Regarding Chaisson, Gully was very cutting in his assessment of Chaisson last night.  A minute and 40 second shift, where there were two opportunities to change.  The last part of the shift was him deciding to participate in a rush, becuase "they are scoring so much these days".  That was the last shift Chaisson played with Gaudreau.  He will be luck to get 4th line minutes next game.  

 

I don't think Gaudreau has ever manned the point on the PP, he may rotate there as plays develop, but they have him on the half boards. That unit runs a 1-3-1 PP where Brodie is the only one at the point. They just don't execute the 1-3-1 properly because the puck always stays high, they need to get the puck moving high to low to open up the shot from the slot.

[MAC331]

40 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

I don't think Gaudreau has ever manned the point on the PP, he may rotate there as plays develop, but they have him on the half boards. That unit runs a 1-3-1 PP where Brodie is the only one at the point. They just don't execute the 1-3-1 properly because the puck always stays high, they need to get the puck moving high to low to open up the shot from the slot.

I am all for seeing Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk or Gaudreau, Monahan, versteeg but don't see any mileage in Gaudreau, Backlund, Frolik.

Sorry this was meant to answer TD

If GG has finally woke up to his pet project Chiasson being useless HOORAY !!!!!!

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

 

I don't think Gaudreau has ever manned the point on the PP, he may rotate there as plays develop, but they have him on the half boards. That unit runs a 1-3-1 PP where Brodie is the only one at the point. They just don't execute the 1-3-1 properly because the puck always stays high, they need to get the puck moving high to low to open up the shot from the slot.

 

He may be on the half boards, but he has to cover the point when Brodie shifts, which is every PP.  Where Gaudreau has had success in the past in on the off-wing a lot.  Any pass to him will be slightly further out from the net, but allowing him to get the shot off faster.  And he has had better success when there are point shot options available to pass to.  The 1-3-1 setup has not worked with Brodie out there.  

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

I am all for seeing Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk or Gaudreau, Monahan, versteeg but don't see any mileage in Gaudreau, Backlund, Frolik.

Sorry this was meant to answer TD

If GG has finally woke up to his pet project Chiasson being useless HOORAY !!!!!!

 

 

That was a Haynes suggestion, as it would give him possession and defensive help.  In theory, he would get the "Backlund Bump".  Besides, they are all about the same speed, and operate well on the rush.   

[MAC331]

14 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

 

That was a Haynes suggestion, as it would give him possession and defensive help.  In theory, he would get the "Backlund Bump".  Besides, they are all about the same speed, and operate well on the rush.   

It could work I am just why when we need to get him and Monahan working better together. The best way to accomplish this is by having another valid threat on their line in Tkachuk or Versteeg if they don't want to mess with Backlund's line.

If they would move Tkachuk with JG and SM and want to keep Bennett at a C position I wouldn't mind seeing Mangiapane up to play with Backlund and Frolik.

[travel_dude]

14 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

It could work I am just why when we need to get him and Monahan working better together. The best way to accomplish this is by having another valid threat on their line in Tkachuk or Versteeg if they don't want to mess with Backlund's line.

If they would move Tkachuk with JG and SM and want to keep Bennett at a C position I wouldn't mind seeing Mangiapane up to play with Backlund and Frolik.

 

All good ideas.  Personally I think it's also time to demote a few players.  I was wrong about Bennett's waiver status; it hasn't kicked in yet.  Not that I would start with him, but just clearing the air.  I think you could start with Bouma.  You could also do the same with Chaisson.  Neither would be a huge loss if claimed.

 

Would love to see what Magiapane could do.  Maybe a bit early, but what the heck.  Tkachuk with Johnny is a match made in Flames heaven. 

[JTech780]

5 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

All good ideas.  Personally I think it's also time to demote a few players.  I was wrong about Bennett's waiver status; it hasn't kicked in yet.  Not that I would start with him, but just clearing the air.  I think you could start with Bouma.  You could also do the same with Chaisson.  Neither would be a huge loss if claimed.

 

Would love to see what Magiapane could do.  Maybe a bit early, but what the heck.  Tkachuk with Johnny is a match made in Flames heaven. 

 

I am excited for Mangiapane too, but he isn't ready. He has really cooled off since his hot start, 3 points in his last 12 games and is  -7 in that stretch. He has also been a healthy scratch lately.

[AlbertaBoy12]

GG switched back to the lines from the preseason in the back half of the game last night.

 

Gaudreau-mony-versteeg

Ferland-backlund-frolik

Tkachuk-bennett-brouwer

Bouma-stajan-chiasson

 

I thought that some of the lines had some good shifts in the second half of the game just couldnt put enough together to score. Im curious to see if he sticks with this for next game.

[MAC331]

25 minutes ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

GG switched back to the lines from the preseason in the back half of the game last night.

 

Gaudreau-mony-versteeg

Ferland-backlund-frolik

Tkachuk-bennett-brouwer

Bouma-stajan-chiasson

 

I thought that some of the lines had some good shifts in the second half of the game just couldnt put enough together to score. Im curious to see if he sticks with this for next game.

Those lines are definitely worth a try.

[AlbertaBoy12]

1 minute ago, MAC331 said:

Those lines are definitely worth a try.

Well it cant be any worse then what we have been seeing recently in terms of generating offense, and I think those lines werent given a fair kick because of how the team performed to start the season. Im glad hes going back to that.