Call ups

[tmac70]

 So, one game proves he has been just ok for so long. Improvement over what? Last season when he was on the Flames? If he had scored on one of his shots last night, does that mean just ok, crap, or good? I would like to see a string of games and see what he does.

Seto given 5 minutes of PP time proves he must have been the better player? Giving him some 5v4 time should have helped his confidence, but didn't seem to do much. Six games, no points, -2. If he was Sven, he would have been demoted. I haven't even seen enough spunk to say he is playing well without the puck. I actually used to be a Setoguchi fan, but he fell off the map.

Hey I would love to eat humble pie over this kid, but he hasn't shown me anything in 2 years to get overly excited about. if Sven was playing better than Seto, the coaches would have given him more TOI. Earned never given, I guess he never earned it. This poor Sven crap gets old, he had to deal with some adversity's get the hell over it. 

 

JH may be out tonight with the Flu, The perfect opportunity to grab the bull by the horns for Sven. Sven's future is in Sven's hands, I hope he does exceptionally well tonight. He doesn't even need to score, just standout for 1 game which will go a long way. 

[kehatch]

Hey I would love to eat humble pie over this kid, but he hasn't shown me anything in 2 years to get overly excited about. if Sven was playing better than Seto, the coaches would have given him more TOI. Earned never given, I guess he never earned it. This poor Sven crap gets old, he had to deal with some adversity's get the hell over it. 

 

JH may be out tonight with the Flu, The perfect opportunity to grab the bull by the horns for Sven. Sven's future is in Sven's hands, I hope he does exceptionally well tonight. He doesn't even need to score, just standout for 1 game which will go a long way. 

 

 

There are examples all over the NHL of prospects like Baertschi that were mismanaged by their NHL team only to flourish with another team.  There is plenty of reason to be critical about the Flames management of Baertschi to date.  This isn't about poor Baertschi, it is about appropriate development. I would hate to see this kid go and be a star somewhere else.  

 

But the message isn't to feel sorry for the kid.  Its to have patience.  Some prospects develop quickly.  Some take more time.  This constant dumping on a prospect because he hasn't made your timeline is silly.  Asking why fans are holding 27 year old veteran with almost 500 games to a different standard than a 22 year old prospect with just over 50 games is silly.  

 

Sure there are some flags in his development.  His inability to stick with the Flames last season is a bit of a concern.  His slow start in the AHL the last two seasons is a bit of a concern.  Everyone is wishing he turned a corner by now, and his inability to do so is a bit of a concern.  But the kid is a long ways away from his expiration date.  There is still plenty of reason to be excited about him.  I just don't see the point in dumping on him every chance you get.  

[travel_dude]

I will add this because I feel compelled.

Seeing guys like Johnny, Jooris and Granlund in the lineup warms my heart. None of these guys are 1st rounders. All are hard working guys committed to playing in the NHL someday. Jooris exudes the lunchpail mentality of making the team through hard word and drive. Granlund suffers from older brother syndrome; always playing in the shadow of a star. He will work his butt off to beat his brother. Johnny is that special kid, who may not have made the NHL years ago (in the days of clutch and grab and Scott Stevens).

I would much rather watch these guys compete than a bunch of slackers like the Oilers, regardless of the talent level. Give me Johnny over Yak all day long. Give me Brodie over Jultz (and most of the other D in the league). Give me Hiller/Ramo over King Henrick. Give me Jooris over Eberle. You get the idea.

Oh yes, give me Sven over any of the Oiler prospects.

[Wrek]

I will add this because I feel compelled.

Seeing guys like Johnny, Jooris and Granlund in the lineup warms my heart. None of these guys are 1st rounders. All are hard working guys committed to playing in the NHL someday. Jooris exudes the lunchpail mentality of making the team through hard word and drive. Granlund suffers from older brother syndrome; always playing in the shadow of a star. He will work his butt off to beat his brother. Johnny is that special kid, who may not have made the NHL years ago (in the days of clutch and grab and Scott Stevens).

I would much rather watch these guys compete than a bunch of slackers like the Oilers, regardless of the talent level. Give me Johnny over Yak all day long. Give me Brodie over Jultz (and most of the other D in the league). Give me Hiller/Ramo over King Henrick. Give me Jooris over Eberle. You get the idea.

Oh yes, give me Sven over any of the Oiler prospects.

 

I don't get how people look at Granlund and think he has little brother syndrome. His brother honestly isnt THAT great.

If he keeps developing like he is, he's easily going to pass his brother.

 

But other then that I agree

[travel_dude]

I don't get how people look at Granlund and think he has little brother syndrome. His brother honestly isnt THAT great.

If he keeps developing like he is, he's easily going to pass his brother.

 

But other then that I agree

It all has to do with draft ranking. Big brother made the NHL sooner. Struggled a bit, but is now a fixture. Don't think he says it out loud, but there is always that rivalry between siblings.

[420since1974]

I will add this because I feel compelled.

Seeing guys like Johnny, Jooris and Granlund in the lineup warms my heart. None of these guys are 1st rounders. All are hard working guys committed to playing in the NHL someday. Jooris exudes the lunchpail mentality of making the team through hard word and drive. Granlund suffers from older brother syndrome; always playing in the shadow of a star. He will work his butt off to beat his brother. Johnny is that special kid, who may not have made the NHL years ago (in the days of clutch and grab and Scott Stevens).

I would much rather watch these guys compete than a bunch of slackers like the Oilers, regardless of the talent level. Give me Johnny over Yak all day long. Give me Brodie over Jultz (and most of the other D in the league). Give me Hiller/Ramo over King Henrick. Give me Jooris over Eberle. You get the idea.

Oh yes, give me Sven over any of the Oiler prospects.

 

 

 

Damn, you do this to me so often, LOL.

 

 

I'll be reading your posts, usually nodding my head in agreement with most every statement.

 

Well thought out and articulated, knowledgeable as well.

 

 

And then, the very last sentence is one with which I can't agree.

 

In this case, I'd easily take Darnell Nurse over Sven Baertschi.

 

Nothing against Sven, but:

 

1. We lack high quality D prospects.

 

2. It's easier to find a forward via draft, trade, or FA than a defense-man.

[travel_dude]

Damn, you do this to me so often, LOL.

 

 

I'll be reading your posts, usually nodding my head in agreement with most every statement.

 

Well thought out and articulated, knowledgeable as well.

 

 

And then, the very last sentence is one with which I can't agree.

 

In this case, I'd easily take Darnell Nurse over Sven Baertschi.

 

Nothing against Sven, but:

 

1. We lack high quality D prospects.

 

2. It's easier to find a forward via draft, trade, or FA than a defense-man.

Yeah, I always forget about Nurse because they are actually letting him develop. He's a good kid that could become something in a few years. I think Sven will be a really good player before Nurse does, due to how long they take to develop. Just not sure Sven does it here. My point is 99% of the Oil prospects have been infected.

[ABC923]

Sven with less than 8 minutes of ice tonight and a minus 1. Playing fourth line minutes and floundering. Seems to me that coach Hartley has no confidence in the kid, and the kid lacks grit to take what's given to him. Won't be surprised to see him benched next game before being sent down. He might get another call up in the Spring if he lights it up in the A, but that likely isn't going to happen. Not sure what he's worth on the market, but it's clear he has no future here. For his sake I hope we trade him. I still believe he has the ability to be a 60+ point getter, but it won't happen here.

[tmac70]

There are examples all over the NHL of prospects like Baertschi that were mismanaged by their NHL team only to flourish with another team.  There is plenty of reason to be critical about the Flames management of Baertschi to date.  This isn't about poor Baertschi, it is about appropriate development. I would hate to see this kid go and be a star somewhere else.  

 

But the message isn't to feel sorry for the kid.  Its to have patience.  Some prospects develop quickly.  Some take more time.  This constant dumping on a prospect because he hasn't made your timeline is silly.  Asking why fans are holding 27 year old veteran with almost 500 games to a different standard than a 22 year old prospect with just over 50 games is silly.  

 

Sure there are some flags in his development.  His inability to stick with the Flames last season is a bit of a concern.  His slow start in the AHL the last two seasons is a bit of a concern.  Everyone is wishing he turned a corner by now, and his inability to do so is a bit of a concern.  But the kid is a long ways away from his expiration date.  There is still plenty of reason to be excited about him.  I just don't see the point in dumping on him every chance you get.  

Why Sven cause his name come up in the topic. So if Jooris, Ferland or Granny are playing at Sven's level, you would keep them up here? The issue is every other prospect has to live up to the standards except Sven, according to some. Don't disagree that some take longer to establish, so has he elevated his game to surpass propects in 2 years?

 

Currently Flames management is giving this kid all the chances to shine. I still stand by that this is or was a mercy call up to hopefully to spark some confidance. He has played two games since his call up, how impressive has he looked since he got here? Has he done any thing to secure a roster spot? 

[kehatch]

Why Sven cause his name come up in the topic. So if Jooris, Ferland or Granny are playing at Sven's level, you would keep them up here? The issue is every other prospect has to live up to the standards except Sven, according to some. Don't disagree that some take longer to establish, so has he elevated his game to surpass propects in 2 years?

Currently Flames management is giving this kid all the chances to shine. I still stand by that this is or was a mercy call up to hopefully to spark some confidance. He has played two games since his call up, how impressive has he looked since he got here? Has he done any thing to secure a roster spot?

What part of the Flames DNA allow for a "mercy call up"? He was next on the depth chart. And where did I say that they should keep him up? I am just saying stop dumping on the kid every chance you get. He is still one of the organizations better prospects and he will be a very good player if/when he gets there.

[ABC923]

I kind of agree this was a mercy call up. We didn't particularly need Sven, we could have just played McGratten. No argument here that he was next on the depth chart, but the call was arguably unnecessary. Besides, given how Sven has been used here it may have made more sense to call up a Reinhart type player to fill in as a more energy type role.

[AlbertaBoy12]

I agree on the mercy call up, sven had no role to fill in the top 6 with this call up. To appease him and not piss him off well lets call him up and see what happens. Should have at least given him pp time.

[tmac70]

What part of the Flames DNA allow for a "mercy call up"? He was next on the depth chart. And where did I say that they should keep him up? I am just saying stop dumping on the kid every chance you get. He is still one of the organizations better prospects and he will be a very good player if/when he gets there.

Can't see how I am dumping on the kid every chance I can, but whatever. He has been less than impressive in the past 2 seasons. So by me making comments as such I am now the Sven hater. Just my opinion, you yourself agree he shouldn't be up here. 

 

He is playing 4th line minutes that are not impressive, however Jooris started 4th line and more than doubled Sven's minutes. IMHO that is taking advantage of the opportunity you have been given. If Jooris, Granny or even JH become just as ineffective I will advocate they need to go down and work on there game as well. It has been 2 years and this kid still has yet to crack a full time roster spot. You can not disagree that he is being out played by other prospects. If that is me bashing the kid, than  I am fine with it.

[The_Argus]

I kind of agree this was a mercy call up. We didn't particularly need Sven, we could have just played McGratten. No argument here that he was next on the depth chart, but the call was arguably unnecessary. Besides, given how Sven has been used here it may have made more sense to call up a Reinhart type player to fill in as a more energy type role.

 

If he's only going to get 7-8 minutes on the 4th line, then I would rather the Flames play McGratten and have Sven in the AHL. But McGratten and Baertschi aren't excactly interchangable players, especially since we are mising many players in our Top 9 due to injury.

 

Still, I think it's only temporary. I think Sven will only be here a few more games at most; as soon as someone returns from injury, I expect he'll be the first player sent down. Which is fine.

[travel_dude]

 

If he's only going to get 7-8 minutes on the 4th line, then I would rather the Flames play McGratten and have Sven in the AHL. But McGratten and Baertschi aren't excactly interchangable players, especially since we are mising many players in our Top 9 due to injury.

 

Still, I think it's only temporary. I think Sven will only be here a few more games at most; as soon as someone returns from injury, I expect he'll be the first player sent down. Which is fine.

Baertschi is playing 4th line minutes, not playing on the 4th line. McGrattan is not capable of keeping up in today's NHL without babysitting. 

[Wrek]

Oh look another day to dump on Sven, In his 8 minutes of time he looked and played better then Seto has all season.

 

So by said logic we should demote Seto no? Or is Sven not playing to everyone else's expectations? 

Have we really turned another playmaking/scoring forward to a 4th line grinder? 

[frozenwanderer]

If he's only going to get 7-8 minutes on the 4th line, then I would rather the Flames play McGratten and have Sven in the AHL. But McGratten and Baertschi aren't excactly interchangable players, especially since we are mising many players in our Top 9 due to injury.

 

Still, I think it's only temporary. I think Sven will only be here a few more games at most; as soon as someone returns from injury, I expect he'll be the first player sent down. Which is fine.

 

I agree that he will be the first player sent down when we get more healthy bodies. I kinda feel bad that he is not getting the confidence from the coaching staff to get more minutes.

[ABC923]

Oh look another day to dump on Sven, In his 8 minutes of time he looked and played better then Seto has all season.

 

So by said logic we should demote Seto no? Or is Sven not playing to everyone else's expectations? 

Have we really turned another playmaking/scoring forward to a 4th line grinder? 

Did he play better than Seto?  If so, why did he get about 2:30 in ice time in the last 30:00 while Seto got marginally more?  For the record, I would be a-ok with demoting Seto too, but obviously the coaching staff sees something there that I don't or he wouldn't still be playing.  His ice time has dropped too, so it wouldn't shock me to see Seto in the press box more often if Granlund or Jooris continue to outplay him.

 

I hate to say it, but for the moment we basically have turned Sven into a fourth line grinder, and not a very good one at that.  It's not his game.  Maybe Sven has lost his confidence.  Maybe his concussion set him back more than we realize.  Maybe the coaching staff is just testing him, seeing if he is willing to play whatever role is asked of him.  I don't know.  But each time I see him, he looks less like a playmaker and more like a failed prospect.  Do I still believe he has the ability to be a top 6 forward? Yes.  Will it happen in Calgary? No, IMO.

[Toppolzer]

Why Sven cause his name come up in the topic. So if Jooris, Ferland or Granny are playing at Sven's level, you would keep them up here? The issue is every other prospect has to live up to the standards except Sven, according to some. Don't disagree that some take longer to establish, so has he elevated his game to surpass propects in 2 years?

 

Currently Flames management is giving this kid all the chances to shine. I still stand by that this is or was a mercy call up to hopefully to spark some confidance. He has played two games since his call up, how impressive has he looked since he got here? Has he done any thing to secure a roster spot? 

In what world has he been given ":every opportunity". He has a better +/- than Monny, ans has produced at a higher PPG than Monny whilst in the NHL.

[JTech780]

In what world has he been given ":every opportunity". He has a better +/- than Monny, ans has produced at a higher PPG than Monny whilst in the NHL.

 

The first part is correct, the second part is incorrect. Baertschi's NHL PPG 0.45, Monahan's NHL PPG 0.47.

 

Baertschi is still playing scared, he hasn't made any mistakes but he really hasn't done much of anything either way. Jooris, Ferland, Granlund are all doing things to get involved in the game, Baertschi so far to this point hasn't. He needs to get involved more, show more energy and hustle.

 

If Baertschi wants more playing time, he has to start following the example of guys like Jooris. I am not trying to knock Baertschi, just pointing out what he needs to work on to stick at this level.

[conundrumed]

Couldn't have said it better myself. Guys are hungry, some are far more hungry than Baertschi. It showed in camp and preseason.

You have to have an aggression gene to get noticed, and then you have to do it night in, night out.

If Sven is a point getter in this league, he has to be one in the A.

He's got an uphill battle, but it's a battle he has to fight.

Too much hype and adulation....

[CheersMan]

Hartley is the coach.  His job is to win every single hockey game.  Hartley gives ice time to players which give the team the best chance at winning every single hockey game, plain and simply.  The big league is all about performance, if you perform and help your team win then you get another shift.  If you cough up the puck or lose an assignment, and the puck ends up in your net, then you go down a notch.  Hartley is not sitting on a fat new 3 year deal where he has time to experiment with the lineup.  He is presently working for his next deal, and his next deal is based on the win/lose column.  Until his next deal is signed, he will continue to play the players that he feels gives him the best chance at success, regardless of whether it benefits the team long term.  

 

I believe the "Call ups" are done by the GM, the coach allocates the ice time.

[Toppolzer]

The first part is correct, the second part is incorrect. Baertschi's NHL PPG 0.45, Monahan's NHL PPG 0.47.

 

Baertschi is still playing scared, he hasn't made any mistakes but he really hasn't done much of anything either way. Jooris, Ferland, Granlund are all doing things to get involved in the game, Baertschi so far to this point hasn't. He needs to get involved more, show more energy and hustle.

 

If Baertschi wants more playing time, he has to start following the example of guys like Jooris. I am not trying to knock Baertschi, just pointing out what he needs to work on to stick at this level.

My bad, prior to his call up he had a better PPG. Those two scoreless games along with Monny getting the GW against the Caps must have changed that.

[AlbertaBoy12]

Has Baer not played less games then mony, and mony plays a far more well rounded game then Baer. Not a fair comparison at all really, and in all honesty seto was way more noticeable good and bad plays then Sven was against Washington, I feel like he was a ghost out there. For comparison I think him and Johnny hockey played almost the same minutes against Washington, jh had the flu and he was more noticeable.

[conundrumed]

I hope everyone stays level that Sven is just a month past his 22nd birthday. If Detroit drafted him, he likely wouldn't have seen the NHL until next year at the earliest.

We've gotta lay off the intense microscope and let him season. He got an injury call-up, that's all it is. We aren't developing him in the NHL for 4th line duty, it's simply the injury circumstance right now.

Granlund and Jooris took big off-season steps this year, we shouldn't hold Baer to other prospects. Another year or 2 and that will be Baertschi's turn. I'm good with that.

 

As for call ups, any updates on Ferland's injury time frame?