Flames Defense

[travel_dude]

Over the season, yes. For the last month or so I think Gio/Hamilton have been better in their all around games. Part of that is due to Brodie however so i'm not taking away credit from Brodie. 

 

That's the age old debate.  Does Brodie make Gio look better than he is?  Brodie doesn't have name recognition.  But on any given night he is arguably the best player on the ice, except for Gaudreau.  He leads in ice time, is better at zone entries, and is the only positive +- defenseman, except for Engelland. 

[kehatch]

Brodie has been the Flames second best player behind Gaudreau. I don't think anyone else is close personally.

[MAC331]

That's the age old debate.  Does Brodie make Gio look better than he is?  Brodie doesn't have name recognition.  But on any given night he is arguably the best player on the ice, except for Gaudreau.  He leads in ice time, is better at zone entries, and is the only positive +- defenseman, except for Engelland. 

Both good players, are you making a point here ? Brodie has always been good on the rush and jumping into the play.

[travel_dude]

Both good players, are you making a point here ? Brodie has always been good on the rush and jumping into the play.

 

My only point is that Brodie is the best D-man we have, and one of the top ones in the league.  I though my theme of posts had said that.  If not, let it be said now.  In a few years, the top 2 will be Brodie/Hamilton.  Not that Gio will decline, but that these two will be in their prime.  They are pretty darn good right now.

[MAC331]

My only point is that Brodie is the best D-man we have, and one of the top ones in the league.  I though my theme of posts had said that.  If not, let it be said now.  In a few years, the top 2 will be Brodie/Hamilton.  Not that Gio will decline, but that these two will be in their prime.  They are pretty darn good right now.

The word "best" gets over used for all kinds of reasons. As long as any player plays like he is suppose to and is contributing to the team success he is doing his job. With any pairing all you want is each player to compliment the other.

[Cowtownguy]

My only point is that Brodie is the best D-man we have, and one of the top ones in the league.  I though my theme of posts had said that.  If not, let it be said now.  In a few years, the top 2 will be Brodie/Hamilton.  Not that Gio will decline, but that these two will be in their prime.  They are pretty darn good right now.

Brodie is a great skater and his conditioning is amazing. He needs to be careful not to shoot the puck off of defenders in the offensive zone. He has cut that down, but it still happens from time to time. He skates so well that I suspect people tend to forget about it. Brodie also has issues with shaky confidence. Again, it appears as though he has worked on that. By comparison, Gio is the full meal deal IMO. What is truly remarkable is that he has that unique ability to get the team fired up and turn around the momentum of a game. I think that injury from last year is still lingering. He is getting better and better as the year progresses.

[travel_dude]

The word "best" gets over used for all kinds of reasons. As long as any player plays like he is suppose to and is contributing to the team success he is doing his job. With any pairing all you want is each player to compliment the other.

 

I have to disagree on that one.  Johnny is clearly the best forward we have, and it isn't close.  Without those two players, we would be 5-23-2.  Even in games when neither of them score points, they make the difference between an okay team and a good one.

 

If a guys is in your top pairing, facing the league best, he is either the best or 2nd best.  One of the two makes the pair the best pairing.

[gaetz15]

The word "best" gets over used for all kinds of reasons. As long as any player plays like he is suppose to and is contributing to the team success he is doing his job. With any pairing all you want is each player to compliment the other.

Mac I think your right with the word best being overused (Sorry travel_dude). I think the word that should be used with Brodie is "consistent". He comes in does his job. He's not a guy that is flashy, he's a strong skater and makes few mistakes. IMO because of his consistent play it helps Gio settle in to being the player that he can be.

[gaetz15]

 Brodie also has issues with shaky confidence.

 

I dont know if its shaky confidence or its more him trying to force the issue.

 

IMO if Brodie had shaky confidence (even if he has worked on it) then he would shy away from the play.  For example after he gave Nashville that penalty shot that put them up 1-0, if he had shaky confidence he would have never jumped into the middle of the ice to take that pass from Bennett to tie the game up.

 

I think the issue with Brodie (and a couple of our younger players) is that they try to do too much, they don't keep their game simple and they take risks that sometimes bite them in the arse.  

 

That being said personally I see that as a positive.  Now some people might think I'm crazy but just hear me out.  I think it is a positive attribute because these kids actually give a s*** about winning and they want to win so bad that they will try to do anything (even if it is forcing a pass here or taking a shot with a defender in the lane).

 

Now that being said, especially the way the flames are playing now, I cant see anyone having an issue with confidence (other then maybe Hiller and the only reason I say that is because Ramo is playing so well).

[DirtyDeeds]

The word "best" gets over used for all kinds of reasons. As long as any player plays like he is suppose to and is contributing to the team success he is doing his job. With any pairing all you want is each player to compliment the other.

Well our two best players this season are JH and Brodie. This is not over using the word it is being specific. 

 

Best as in better than the rest.

[gaetz15]

Well our two best players this season are JH and Brodie. This is not over using the word it is being specific.

Best as in better than the rest.

I do agree with you but now I ask why are they the best?

This is why I say consistent, they do their jobs day in day out at the same level of intensity, skill and competitiveness every time.

Now that being said there are many different words to describe those guys (best, top, reliable, consistent etc.) so I guess we really shouldn't get caught up in the wording so much

[kehatch]

Well our two best players this season are JH and Brodie. This is not over using the word it is being specific.

Best as in better than the rest.

Agreed. Hamilton, Giordano, and Monahan have been stars in segments, but those two have been great all season.

I am not sure if it has registered for some this season. But Brodie is one of the top point producers on D this season, one of the minute leaders, and the best tough minute guy on the ice by every metric.

Brodie is an elite D.

[LouCifer]

A good read about our D... supporting the talk about Brodie being elite.

 

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/suddenly-hot-flames-have-their-blue-line-to-thank/

[Da4RealDeal]

For any person who watches him play to even have a different opinion is just wrong. Brodie has been the best D man on our team up to this point this year.  Brodie completely changes the pace of the team when he is on the ice just like Johnny does.

[MAC331]

Well our two best players this season are JH and Brodie. This is not over using the word it is being specific. 

 

Best as in better than the rest.

Whatever

[MAC331]

I dont know if its shaky confidence or its more him trying to force the issue.

 

IMO if Brodie had shaky confidence (even if he has worked on it) then he would shy away from the play.  For example after he gave Nashville that penalty shot that put them up 1-0, if he had shaky confidence he would have never jumped into the middle of the ice to take that pass from Bennett to tie the game up.

 

I think the issue with Brodie (and a couple of our younger players) is that they try to do too much, they don't keep their game simple and they take risks that sometimes bite them in the arse.  

 

That being said personally I see that as a positive.  Now some people might think I'm crazy but just hear me out.  I think it is a positive attribute because these kids actually give a s*** about winning and they want to win so bad that they will try to do anything (even if it is forcing a pass here or taking a shot with a defender in the lane).

 

Now that being said, especially the way the flames are playing now, I cant see anyone having an issue with confidence (other then maybe Hiller and the only reason I say that is because Ramo is playing so well).

Many players fight their confidence at times, Hamilton was fighting it early but seems to be finding his game within this new group. I would say Wideman is definitely fighting his confidence, e doesn't seem to be doing much of anything right so far.

[cross16]

Agreed. Hamilton, Giordano, and Monahan have been stars in segments, but those two have been great all season.

I am not sure if it has registered for some this season. But Brodie is one of the top point producers on D this season, one of the minute leaders, and the best tough minute guy on the ice by every metric.

Brodie is an elite D.

 

And I would argue that Hamilton has played at an elite level for the last month or so which I personally don't think is a fluke. I think this is how good Hamilton is and it was nothing more than a slow start.

 

To think that Gio- Hamilton - Brodie are all signed together for 4 more seasons is just an amazing concept. It almost doesn't matter who fills out the d core when your top 3 is that good. 

[kehatch]

And I would argue that Hamilton has played at an elite level for the last month or so which I personally don't think is a fluke. I think this is how good Hamilton is and it was nothing more than a slow start.

To think that Gio- Hamilton - Brodie are all signed together for 4 more seasons is just an amazing concept. It almost doesn't matter who fills out the d core when your top 3 is that good.

Agreed. Hamilton has been good the last 20 or so games and really good the last 10. Giordano is also finding his groove and looks much more like last seasons Giordano (with a bit less production.)

It's a huge part or the turn around.

[AlbertaBoy12]

After every game it seems that I read on flames nation that hamiltons numbers with russell are bad in terms of advanced stats, and the eye test tells me that they arent doing great together. Also im aware that russells blocking shots is going to skew those numbers a bit but still, I cant stand russells d zone play. My question is what are everyones feeling on the russell/wideman pairing that seems to get so many minutes together on the pk, ev etc. Ari from flames nation suggested trading wideman or russell and bringing up kulak to play with hamilton, I dont agree with that.

 

But, we do need to find someone to play that left side with hamilton, personally either id like to see gio play with wideman and brodie with hamilton, while russell takes third pairing minutes. In a perfect world though I would see us trading for someone else or maybe tspoon is ready to take those minutes by the end of season. Hmm thoughts?

[cross16]

The more I think about the less I hate this idea for next year:

 

Brodie - Gio

Smid - Hamilton

Englelland - Wideman

 

Couple of truths I think we need to accept that make me embrace this concept

1- You arn't going to be able to move Smid. I don't think you can move Englelland either but I am also not sure you want to move him with how reliable he has been. 

2nd - Wideman's trade value isn't all that high. I think in order to move him you would need to take on an equally bad contract and i'm not sure that makes alot of send with him being a pending UFA. If i'm wrong and you can get value then i'm all for exploring that move but I am not optimistic that is the case. 

3rd - with Brodie, Gio and Hamilton as the strength of your team you can afford to skimp a little bit IMO becuase I think there are greater needs up front. 

 

I'm not a Wotherspoon fan and from all i've heard he sin't playing well down in Stockton so I think he is nearing bust territory. The UFA market looks weak to me, outside of Coburn or Gunnerson and i'd rather not overpay either of those two guys. This could allow more financial flexability to get Mony/Gaudreau contracts as well as try to find some depth up front or best case scenario an impact RW. 

 

Some will cringe, but I don't think a D core like that is that bad at all. I like the way Smid - Hamilton played and I think the more Smid plays the better he gets so the idea of him playing 15-18 mins a night doesn't really scare me especially having Hamilton there. Yes I too would prefer a better option but the reality is you pobably need o get that via trade and i'm not sure thats the best way to spend your assets with you look at what is lacking up front for the Flames and in net. 

[MAC331]

After every game it seems that I read on flames nation that hamiltons numbers with russell are bad in terms of advanced stats, and the eye test tells me that they arent doing great together. Also im aware that russells blocking shots is going to skew those numbers a bit but still, I cant stand russells d zone play. My question is what are everyones feeling on the russell/wideman pairing that seems to get so many minutes together on the pk, ev etc. Ari from flames nation suggested trading wideman or russell and bringing up kulak to play with hamilton, I dont agree with that.

 

But, we do need to find someone to play that left side with hamilton, personally either id like to see gio play with wideman and brodie with hamilton, while russell takes third pairing minutes. In a perfect world though I would see us trading for someone else or maybe tspoon is ready to take those minutes by the end of season. Hmm thoughts?

BH seems reluctant to move away from anything that is showing some success towards wins after this disaster of a start. Wideman for the money he makes IMO shouldn't shoved down on the 3rd pairing on is wrong side (dumb). We need him to play at his best and with some confidence, this is why I think he should play with Giordano. Brodie and Hamilton with both playing the way they can would be awesome to watch so long as they communicate well with each other. If the 3rd pairing revolved Russell, Smid and Engelland there is nothing wrong with that approach for now.

[travel_dude]

After every game it seems that I read on flames nation that hamiltons numbers with russell are bad in terms of advanced stats, and the eye test tells me that they arent doing great together. Also im aware that russells blocking shots is going to skew those numbers a bit but still, I cant stand russells d zone play. My question is what are everyones feeling on the russell/wideman pairing that seems to get so many minutes together on the pk, ev etc. Ari from flames nation suggested trading wideman or russell and bringing up kulak to play with hamilton, I dont agree with that.

 

But, we do need to find someone to play that left side with hamilton, personally either id like to see gio play with wideman and brodie with hamilton, while russell takes third pairing minutes. In a perfect world though I would see us trading for someone else or maybe tspoon is ready to take those minutes by the end of season. Hmm thoughts?

 

You have to look a bit closer at the articles:

 

Hamilton with Russell: 12:26 TOI, 29.41% CF

Hamilton without Russell: 5:21, 82.35%

Russell without Hamilton: 6:29, 13.33%

[CheersMan]

After every game it seems that I read on flames nation that hamiltons numbers with russell are bad in terms of advanced stats, and the eye test tells me that they arent doing great together. Also im aware that russells blocking shots is going to skew those numbers a bit but still, I cant stand russells d zone play. My question is what are everyones feeling on the russell/wideman pairing that seems to get so many minutes together on the pk, ev etc. Ari from flames nation suggested trading wideman or russell and bringing up kulak to play with hamilton, I dont agree with that.

 

But, we do need to find someone to play that left side with hamilton, personally either id like to see gio play with wideman and brodie with hamilton, while russell takes third pairing minutes. In a perfect world though I would see us trading for someone else or maybe tspoon is ready to take those minutes by the end of season. Hmm thoughts?

 

Russell was on the ice for 1 GA last evening.  Monahan lost the faceoff in our zone, then got picked and failed to make it to the point to disrupt the shot which found the back of the net.  The Flames were 29% in the faceoff circle last night, not nearly good enough. 

I remember Russell preventing a goal as well on the wrap around when Ramo was out of position.  Russell may not be the biggest guy but he makes up for it with good stick, positioning and toughness, imo.

[travel_dude]

Russell was on the ice for 1 GA last evening.  Monahan lost the faceoff in our zone, then got picked and failed to make it to the point to disrupt the shot which found the back of the net.  The Flames were 29% in the faceoff circle last night, not nearly good enough. 

I remember Russell preventing a goal as well on the wrap around when Ramo was out of position.  Russell may not be the biggest guy but he makes up for it with good stick, positioning and toughness, imo.

 

Russell has his good points.  Smothering offense is not his strong point.  Neither is a strong breakout.  He actually does best to skate it out, but that is usually when the other team is changing.  Weak shots along the D-zone boards or hard passes to the boards to a forward not moving are not his strength.  The latter is a function of the Flames set plays, not so much Russell.  

 

Put Russell with Engelland and I think you have a decent 5/6 pair, in limited usage.  Russell can help balance out Engelland's lack of mobility, and Engelland can help knock players off the puck.  We need a top 4 LHS D-man, assuming we keep Brodie on Gio's right side.  Or we need a RHS potential top 4 that can play slightly limited minutes with Gio.  If that's the case, you need to shelter Gio and use Brodie/Hamilton against the top lines.

[AlbertaBoy12]

You have to look a bit closer at the articles:

 

Hamilton with Russell: 12:26 TOI, 29.41% CF

Hamilton without Russell: 5:21, 82.35%

Russell without Hamilton: 6:29, 13.33%

What do you mean I need to look closer? it seems pretty clear that hamilton is better without russell then with, and russell is better with hamilton then without, even if you take half the ice time.