The Official Calgary Flames "New Arena" thread

[Cowtownguy]

41 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

If you can build a building and have part of that deal housing city employess, then you have a sweet deal.  We won't go into the EDM deal, since it's beyond what any modern concil should have approved.  It benefits the city because they don't care about revitalizing unless there is a reason to do it.

 

CGY did not want to have anything to do with the creosote site.  I can understand that.  It's wrong, but that is social conscience talking.  They place a bigger focus on libraries and artwork, which is fine in for a limited number of people that would enjoy it.  

 

Anyway, I'm out on this topic.  I was just responding to the negatives about perception and what I felt was a political agenda.

That would be a good way to prevent future arguments about controversial art work. Just put the money towards cleaning up the creosote. It is outrageous that this area is just being left to poison people. The city and the province should generate a strategy to pay for this and attempt to recoup the costs. 

 

I do think that a deal will be worked out. There is no way that the Flames were going to approach the city with a truly reasonable option and have the city respond positively in just a few meetings. Much of this is showmanship and negotiation that takes many years to complete.

[cross16]

I'm becoming more pessimistic a deal will be worked out because I think Edwards fully plans on moving this team unless he gets exactly the deal that he wants. The deal that he wants is a really poor deal for the City and one i'm not seeing this council agreeing to and as a tax payer i'm not really for it either. 

 

Not feeling very good about this at all anymore. Hope i'm wrong but glad to see the City wants to reach out at least. 

[DirtyDeeds]

3 hours ago, cross16 said:

I'm becoming more pessimistic a deal will be worked out because I think Edwards fully plans on moving this team unless he gets exactly the deal that he wants. The deal that he wants is a really poor deal for the City and one i'm not seeing this council agreeing to and as a tax payer i'm not really for it either. 

 

Not feeling very good about this at all anymore. Hope i'm wrong but glad to see the City wants to reach out at least. 

The city is reaching out because they are moving ahead to the next approval step for the Olympics.

 

They cant be seen trying to put lipstick on the saddledome and thinking that will do. What are they supposed to do dress up Mcmahn stadium for opening /closing ceremonies too?

 

If the city is sincere about an Olympic bid then they need a foot in the Hash Rate and get moving on these and other facilities.

[zima]

Maybe I miss read but I did see something about the venue being moved between Cgy and Edm perhaps there thinking on moving the hockey games there unsure how that helps us but I'm pretty sure I read that some where?

[cross16]

4 minutes ago, zima said:

Maybe I miss read but I did see something about the venue being moved between Cgy and Edm perhaps there thinking on moving the hockey games there unsure how that helps us but I'm pretty sure I read that some where?

 

Yes Nenshi did float the idea that they could do an Olympic bid and use Edmonton's arena. 

[phoenix66]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Yes Nenshi did float the idea that they could do an Olympic bid and use Edmonton's arena. 

Yep, then the Province threw the city a curveball and made any Provincial funding conditional on a Plebiscite that the Council (Nenshi) wanted to avoid doing 

Im pretty sure reading that a  bid that includes using Edmonton facilities will be a deal breaker for most, as well as just slapping a coat of paint on the Dome and McMahon for about the same cost the Flames wanted from the City for a new complex

 

I love that the new councillor has put together a proposal to invite the Flames back to the table,   last shot was the Flames, so the city needed to make the next move .

But people need to realize , this is following the appropriate and same script that any city or team wanting an arena has done  :

 

1. Team wants new arena

2. City says we have no money for subsidizing Rich Businessmen

3. Both advise they have public support

4. Both sides put forth heavily self serving proposals

5. Team threatens to leave Town

6. Public temperature is gauged

7. Both sides talk again

8. Talks break down

9. Team threatens more forcefully to leave- game of Chicken begins  

10.Repeat steps 6-9 as required 

11. Agreement is reached

12.Both sides praise the process and speak glowingly of the other side , and on same page to tell public what a win win it is for everybody

 

 

Basically , it’s a battle for public support .. whoever gets it usually wins   

Which I also believe is Big reason why the "Win Now " Mantra is happening ..nothing brings a City on to the Teams side like a good playoff run..  if they had pitched this after the 04 playoffs we'd have the best arena in the league right now 

 

 

[The_Tribal Chief]

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/calgary-city-councillor-files-motion-reignite-flames-arena-talks/

 

According to Sportsnet The city is Filing a Notion to reignite the arena Talks Feeling they Need a New Arena /Event Center

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

Yep, then the Province threw the city a curveball and made any Provincial funding conditional on a Plebiscite that the Council (Nenshi) wanted to avoid doing 

Im pretty sure reading that a  bid that includes using Edmonton facilities will be a deal breaker for most, as well as just slapping a coat of paint on the Dome and McMahon for about the same cost the Flames wanted from the City for a new complex

 

I love that the new councillor has put together a proposal to invite the Flames back to the table,   last shot was the Flames, so the city needed to make the next move .

But people need to realize , this is following the appropriate and same script that any city or team wanting an arena has done  :

 

1. Team wants new arena

2. City says we have no money for subsidizing Rich Businessmen

3. Both advise they have public support

4. Both sides put forth heavily self serving proposals

5. Team threatens to leave Town

6. Public temperature is gauged

7. Both sides talk again

8. Talks break down

9. Team threatens more forcefully to leave- game of Chicken begins  

10.Repeat steps 6-9 as required 

11. Agreement is reached

12.Both sides praise the process and speak glowingly of the other side , and on same page to tell public what a win win it is for everybody

 

 

Basically , it’s a battle for public support .. whoever gets it usually wins   

Which I also believe is Big reason why the "Win Now " Mantra is happening ..nothing brings a City on to the Teams side like a good playoff run..  if they had pitched this after the 04 playoffs we'd have the best arena in the league right now 

 

 

 

Not everything is the same.

Flames did not threaten to leave.  That is just a reality if you can't continue to operate out of an aging building and you can;t get any traction on building a new one.

Both sides used the media to further their cause.

 

What I don't like is self-serving politicians.  Use language strong enough for the supporters that don;t want any public money spent on anything but social progams.

Use language subtle enough that you don't PO the Flames supporters.  Make it sound like the owners are money grubbers.

Use a vision of an arena district based on some mystery arena in your election platform.

The owners walked away because the counter-strategy was in a complete other direction and there was no movement.

 

I don;t like King, nor the timing of the original proposal, but at least it was a proposal based on needing to upgrade 2 facilities and build a 3rd one.  And it made use of an area that needs to be fixed.  The rejection was based on location (cleanup costs the excuse) and not wanting to spend money on a field house.  

[cccsberg]

16 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Not everything is the same.

Flames did not threaten to leave.  That is just a reality if you can't continue to operate out of an aging building and you can;t get any traction on building a new one.

Both sides used the media to further their cause.

 

What I don't like is self-serving politicians.  Use language strong enough for the supporters that don;t want any public money spent on anything but social progams.

Use language subtle enough that you don't PO the Flames supporters.  Make it sound like the owners are money grubbers.

Use a vision of an arena district based on some mystery arena in your election platform.

The owners walked away because the counter-strategy was in a complete other direction and there was no movement.

 

I don;t like King, nor the timing of the original proposal, but at least it was a proposal based on needing to upgrade 2 facilities and build a 3rd one.  And it made use of an area that needs to be fixed.  The rejection was based on location (cleanup costs the excuse) and not wanting to spend money on a field house.  

Yes, good points.  I still believe the Flame's original proposal is the best long-term solution for all of Calgary (albeit financing issues aside), but you need some leaders to step up or it'll never get done.

[The_Tribal Chief]

well the city is filing a motion to reopen this case i guess we will see what happens

[zima]

Flames did not threaten to leave.  That is just a reality if you can't continue to operate out of an aging building and you can;t get any traction on building a new one.

 

 

They might not have said it in so many words but the connotation was there as soon as they said it that is exactly what I toke out of it and I bet I'm not the only one.

[JTech780]

 

[cross16]

Saga continues to be ridiuclous but at least there is hope they can get back to the table. 

 

Unless i've read otherwise I beleive part of the motion is that Nenshi is now long allowed to be invovled, which is smart. Try and get rid of/reduce, some of the egos involved here. 

[phoenix66]

6 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

Good stuff...  next step is knowing who the 3 council members are . and I seem to recall when they suggested it, it would have public inclusions 

Ball is back in the Flames court to show up with a clean slate 

 

 

[travel_dude]

9 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Saga continues to be ridiuclous but at least there is hope they can get back to the table. 

 

Unless i've read otherwise I beleive part of the motion is that Nenshi is now long allowed to be invovled, which is smart. Try and get rid of/reduce, some of the egos involved here. 

 

Nenshi also stated that the West Village was OFF the table.  That was today.

Need to get that fool away as much as possible.  It's not his city to control, just preside over the councilors.  

[conundrumed]

4 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Saga continues to be ridiuclous but at least there is hope they can get back to the table. 

 

Unless i've read otherwise I beleive part of the motion is that Nenshi is now long allowed to be invovled, which is smart. Try and get rid of/reduce, some of the egos involved here. 

It's headshaking.

Go look at the airport area. It can't be worse than that dive known as the Stampede Grounds. Edge of town sure, start fresh. The airport upgrades include fantastic roadworks.

Easy in, easy out. Wanna get impaired, lots of hotels. Not a flood plain. Come from any direction, good infrastructure.

[The_Tribal Chief]

Im More Worried About the Owners the City can want and want But if The Owners still arnt willing to talk were toast and ownership wasnt happy

[conundrumed]

29 minutes ago, The_Snowbear said:

Im More Worried About the Owners the City can want and want But if The Owners still arnt willing to talk were toast and ownership wasnt happy

If the owners can't make a bigger investment in the team, why should the city?

[travel_dude]

I think the biggest sticking point was ownership of the Dome.

You own it, you pay land taxes.

 

 

 

[The_Tribal Chief]

I hope with nenshi seperated it allowed for better negotiations cause what worries me is will nenshi approve a deal that is worked out between the group and the flames

[travel_dude]

5 hours ago, The_Snowbear said:

I hope with nenshi seperated it allowed for better negotiations cause what worries me is will nenshi approve a deal that is worked out between the group and the flames

 

As far as I know, he is one vote on any council motion.  He does not have special powers.

 

[cccsberg]

Nenshi's ego is still a problem and unless they are able to muzzle him it'll be tough sledding, even with the need for movement for Olympic purposes.  I mean the motion was to start with no preconceptions, but before it even got reported Nenshi declares the West Village is a non-option.  Not too hopeful....

[phoenix66]

15 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

Nenshi's ego is still a problem and unless they are able to muzzle him it'll be tough sledding, even with the need for movement for Olympic purposes.  I mean the motion was to start with no preconceptions, but before it even got reported Nenshi declares the West Village is a non-option.  Not too hopeful....

he can declare all he wants .. the more he opens his mouth now the more he looks like an idiot cuz the public now knows he has no voice on this committee.

All he did was prove his personal bias to keeping it in the East side where his family owns property .. and bickering over calling it an "event center " just made him look petty 

[The_Tribal Chief]

He doesnt need a Voice on the commitee but it doesnt matter what deal the commitee and the flames come up with if Nenshi Comes with his Ego

[cross16]

I'm not a fan of Nenshi, but he has a point of West Village. A lot of work and money has been spent there to already show that location is not feasible for what was proposed and is a bad idea. With how far behind these talks already are I would hope they would be more interested in moving forward, not backwards.