Flames & Losing For Higher Draft Order.

[The_People1]

Yeah.

There are never good players available in that 11-14 spot. (Iggy was a #11)

******************************************************************

It's not where you draft but who you draft. That's where scouting/management smarts comes in. (Gaudreau is a 4th rounder as is Brodie)

Signings like undrafted Gio certainly make up for the lack of top 5-10 picks.

 

Picking high has an aura of getting a superstar but some of the best (Shea Weber, Duncan Keith) aren't even 1st round picks.

Not sure why you continue to patent good scouting and development for your own use, disallowing its coexistence with a high draft pick. We need good late round picks regardless where we draft in the first round.

[kehatch]

Right on man.

When the Flames finally decided to rebuild by trading Iginla 3 years ago, their prospect pool was so depleted, I felt we needed 3 years of high picks to replenish it. This is year 3.

Replenish for what? To win championships and not just to be a middle of the pack team. One more high pick and the Flames should be set for the next decade.

Next season will be about winning and the young players forming lines and building chemistry with one another. Some will confuse the change in our cheering as "you guys finally see the light!" But no. It was always the plan to cheer for the playoffs after year 3.

I was one of the very vocal advocates for change. We all are cheering for championships. Just about everyone is being patient and understands this is a rebuild. I have been vocal about high picks improving the percentages of getting an impact player. Most are on the same page outside of the earlier controversial debate on "to rebuild or not to rebuild".

Where many disagree with you is that success counter acts the rebuild. We are winning games on the backs of the kids, many mid draft picks. We are developing them in the right environment. Most publications have our system near the top in the NHL.

Cheering for loses doesn't make a lot of sense when the kids are delivering wins. It's like wishing Brodie wasn't playing as a top pairing guy. Or that Monahan was excelling against top lines. Or that Gaudreau wasn't being an impact player right out of the gate. Or that the young players we found like Jooris and Colborne weren't playing as well as they are.

We are winning because the rebuild is working. Cheering against that because your plan (made three years ago) was to get three high draft picks doesn't make much sense.

[travel_dude]

I was one of the very vocal advocates for change. We all are cheering for championships. Just about everyone is being patient and understands this is a rebuild. I have been vocal about high picks improving the percentages of getting an impact player. Most are on the same page outside of the earlier controversial debate on "to rebuild or not to rebuild".

Where many disagree with you is that success counter acts the rebuild. We are winning games on the backs of the kids, many mid draft picks. We are developing them in the right environment. Most publications have our system near the top in the NHL.

Cheering for loses doesn't make a lot of sense when the kids are delivering wins. It's like wishing Brodie wasn't playing as a top pairing guy. Or that Monahan was excelling against top lines. Or that Gaudreau wasn't being an impact player right out of the gate. Or that the young players we found like Jooris and Colborne weren't playing as well as they are.

We are winning because the rebuild is working. Cheering against that because your plan (made three years ago) was to get three high draft picks doesn't make much sense.

We also got three 1st in 2013, which is a better result than was probably anticipated. Poirier is looking like he could become a top line RW. Klimchuk is also making great strides. Monahan is that big center we have wished for, for years. Bennett could be a huge win for this team. Does a McDab=vid or Eichel make us that much better? Hanifin or another top D might help us more. Or some guy down the list.

It's nice to get top picks to help stock the cupboard, but you also have to take stock at some point and see where you are. Having guys like Johnny, Brodie, and Jooris step up gives you some great depth. Seeing if Poirier, Bennett and Baertschi can make the jump the end of the season or next year is crucial. If they make the team, and are as good as initially advertised, then we have guys that put the vets in depth positions.

[The_People1]

I was one of the very vocal advocates for change. We all are cheering for championships. Just about everyone is being patient and understands this is a rebuild. I have been vocal about high picks improving the percentages of getting an impact player. Most are on the same page outside of the earlier controversial debate on "to rebuild or not to rebuild".

Where many disagree with you is that success counter acts the rebuild. We are winning games on the backs of the kids, many mid draft picks. We are developing them in the right environment. Most publications have our system near the top in the NHL.

Cheering for loses doesn't make a lot of sense when the kids are delivering wins. It's like wishing Brodie wasn't playing as a top pairing guy. Or that Monahan was excelling against top lines. Or that Gaudreau wasn't being an impact player right out of the gate. Or that the young players we found like Jooris and Colborne weren't playing as well as they are.

We are winning because the rebuild is working. Cheering against that because your plan (made three years ago) was to get three high draft picks doesn't make much sense.

Success counter acts the high pick, which therefore counter acts the rebuild in our minds. The disagreement is whether the high pick is necessary for a championshop caliber rebuild and we feel there has been enough sample size since '04 to suggest that a high pick is indeed one of the many necessary ingredients in winning a Cup. This is not a subjective feeling but fact backed by objective evidence presented by Cup winning teams.

High picks alone do not win championships as displayed by the Oilers but high picks have nonetheless been a key piece for nearly every team that has won the Cup recently. So foregoing this key piece is unlikely to result in a Cup win eventually.

The only silver lining this year is that it's a stacked draft and if the Flames can pick in the low teens, then that is equivalent to a top 6 to 10 pick in a regular draft year. At the end of the day, we still see missing pieces in the farm that we need before we win ourselves out of the chance to draft impacts players, like RH shots and Dmen.

Anyways, all we're saying is "one more top pick" and next year we shift our cheering. What u posted above, we will post next year at whoever is still cheering for loses.

We also got three 1st in 2013, which is a better result than was probably anticipated. Poirier is looking like he could become a top line RW. Klimchuk is also making great strides. Monahan is that big center we have wished for, for years. Bennett could be a huge win for this team. Does a McDab=vid or Eichel make us that much better? Hanifin or another top D might help us more. Or some guy down the list.It's nice to get top picks to help stock the cupboard, but you also have to take stock at some point and see where you are. Having guys like Johnny, Brodie, and Jooris step up gives you some great depth. Seeing if Poirier, Bennett and Baertschi can make the jump the end of the season or next year is crucial. If they make the team, and are as good as initially advertised, then we have guys that put the vets in depth positions.

Yes, at some point we have to take stock to see what we have. That point is next season.

[Flyerfan52]

Success counter acts the high pick, which therefore counter acts the rebuild in our minds. The disagreement is whether the high pick is necessary for a championshop caliber rebuild and we feel there has been enough sample size since '04 to suggest that a high pick is indeed one of the many necessary ingredients in winning a Cup. This is not a subjective feeling but fact backed by objective evidence presented by Cup winning teams.

High picks alone do not win championships as displayed by the Oilers but high picks have nonetheless been a key piece for nearly every team that has won the Cup recently. So foregoing this key piece is unlikely to result in a Cup win eventually.

The only silver lining this year is that it's a stacked draft and if the Flames can pick in the low teens, then that is equivalent to a top 6 to 10 pick in a regular draft year. At the end of the day, we still see missing pieces in the farm that we need before we win ourselves out of the chance to draft impacts players, like RH shots and Dmen.

Anyways, all we're saying is "one more top pick" and next year we shift our cheering. What u posted above, we will post next year at whoever is still cheering for loses.

Yes, at some point we have to take stock to see what we have. That point is next season.

We have Bennett (4th OA) & Monahan (6th OA). High enough to suit you?

As you said, the player picked later could/would have been a 1/1 in a shallower draft. 2006 was a pretty good draft & Toews went 3rd. Sometimes the best player isn't the 1st OA. (Giroux @ #22 looks better than many taken ahead of him.)

When drafting teenagers due diligence & patience play a big role.

 

I'll be happier earning a pick as far near the last as possible.

[cccsberg]

I was one of the very vocal advocates for change. We all are cheering for championships. Just about everyone is being patient and understands this is a rebuild. I have been vocal about high picks improving the percentages of getting an impact player. Most are on the same page outside of the earlier controversial debate on "to rebuild or not to rebuild".

Where many disagree with you is that success counter acts the rebuild. We are winning games on the backs of the kids, many mid draft picks. We are developing them in the right environment. Most publications have our system near the top in the NHL.

Cheering for loses doesn't make a lot of sense when the kids are delivering wins. It's like wishing Brodie wasn't playing as a top pairing guy. Or that Monahan was excelling against top lines. Or that Gaudreau wasn't being an impact player right out of the gate. Or that the young players we found like Jooris and Colborne weren't playing as well as they are.

We are winning because the rebuild is working. Cheering against that because your plan (made three years ago) was to get three high draft picks doesn't make much sense.

Agree completely. We are looking for players, and beyond that impact players. Sometimes those come as high draft picks, sometimes not. It doesn't matter where they come from just as long as we get them. The Flames have some now with likely more on the way. The rebuild is working, just not the "statistically probable" way many wanted (e.g. Oilers).

[cccsberg]

Success counter acts the high pick, which therefore counter acts the rebuild in our minds. The disagreement is whether the high pick is necessary for a championshop caliber rebuild and we feel there has been enough sample size since '04 to suggest that a high pick is indeed one of the many necessary ingredients in winning a Cup. This is not a subjective feeling but fact backed by objective evidence presented by Cup winning teams.

High picks alone do not win championships as displayed by the Oilers but high picks have nonetheless been a key piece for nearly every team that has won the Cup recently. So foregoing this key piece is unlikely to result in a Cup win eventually.

The only silver lining this year is that it's a stacked draft and if the Flames can pick in the low teens, then that is equivalent to a top 6 to 10 pick in a regular draft year. At the end of the day, we still see missing pieces in the farm that we need before we win ourselves out of the chance to draft impacts players, like RH shots and Dmen.

Anyways, all we're saying is "one more top pick" and next year we shift our cheering. What u posted above, we will post next year at whoever is still cheering for loses.

Yes, at some point we have to take stock to see what we have. That point is next season.

You seem to have the "perfect plan" all worked out in your head. But just as they don't play the game on paper, there is no such thing as the perfect, paper plan. The kids are stepping up and that is what matters, not whether or not the team adheres to what we think is best.

According to your plan no walk-on, much less 4th round draft choice has a chance in hell of making the team much less making an impact. I guess the Flames have already blown your draft plan out of the water. Why don't you sit back and enjoy the ride and the accomplishments of the guys we have? They are doing great and proving the doubters wrong...

[kehatch]

You seem to have the "perfect plan" all worked out in your head. But just as they don't play the game on paper, there is no such thing as the perfect, paper plan. The kids are stepping up and that is what matters, not whether or not the team adheres to what we think is best.

According to your plan no walk-on, much less 4th round draft choice has a chance in hell of making the team much less making an impact. I guess the Flames have already blown your draft plan out of the water. Why don't you sit back and enjoy the ride and the accomplishments of the guys we have? They are doing great and proving the doubters wrong...

 

Agreed.  Suggesting we need three seasons of high picks is an arbitrary recipe.  I don't understand why we should ignore what has actually happened in favor of an arbitrary guess of three seasons to rebuild.  

 

EDIT: I moved all of the Oiler related chat to the oilers thread located here: http://fans.flames.nhl.com/community/topic/14976-oilers/

[kehatch]

I was a big advocate of if your going to be at the bottom of the league may aswell make it worth it and get the best pick possible.

There was a multitude of people on here ranting "no every game matter's we need to win no matter what"

But guess what if we had it your guys way and they won 1-3 games more, we wouldn't have Bennett. Heck he wouldn't have Monahan, and Monahan was and still is the cornerstone of this rebuild for the flames. Sooner or later key leadership like Gio, Hudler, Glenx WILL be gone. Granted they had a HUGE role in creating what we are now, but they're not the future.

I viewed the rebuild to last us 4-5 years until we became a CONTENDER, not just a play-off bubble team.

And we seem right on pace.

Can we make the play-offs? It's possible

Can we make it past the 1st round? Unlikely (Highly depends on match-ups), Good experience tho

We did have it my way. The games came to play the last two seasons. But they didn't have the assets to earn the points. So we got Monahan, Bennett, etc. This season kids like Gaudreau, Monahan, and Brodie are forcing the issue and we are winning games.

If you "losers" had it your way that would mean those guys aren't playing as well as they are. Complaining that our young team is playing too well so we might get a slightly lower draft pick is silly. There isn't anything to complain about.

[The_People1]

You seem to have the "perfect plan" all worked out in your head. But just as they don't play the game on paper, there is no such thing as the perfect, paper plan. The kids are stepping up and that is what matters, not whether or not the team adheres to what we think is best.

According to your plan no walk-on, much less 4th round draft choice has a chance in hell of making the team much less making an impact. I guess the Flames have already blown your draft plan out of the water. Why don't you sit back and enjoy the ride and the accomplishments of the guys we have? They are doing great and proving the doubters wrong...

 

cccsberg, i'm cheering for high picks AND 4th rounders to make the team and have an impact.  I want to have it all.  Why must cheering for high picks automatically mean we don't care about late round picks?  Imagine drafting in the top 3 AND the late round picks all pan out.  That's crazy awesome.

 

No where do we suggest to draft in the top 3 and then neglect the development of the later picks. 

 

 

Agreed.  Suggesting we need three seasons of high picks is an arbitrary recipe.  I don't understand why we should ignore what has actually happened in favor of an arbitrary guess of three seasons to rebuild.  

 

EDIT: I moved all of the Oiler related chat to the oilers thread located here: http://fans.flames.nhl.com/community/topic/14976-oilers/

 

The number is not entirely arbitrary.  Teams picks 7 rounds on average (some more or less depending on trades).  Three times seven is twenty one players drafted.  A full team is a 23-roster.  First fill Addy with players and then draw players from Addy to the Flames.

 

One high pick cannot form a core alone whereas two can.  Three is better than two.  Yes, four is better than three but four is waiting too long.  We don't have to draft them all ourselves.  We can trade for them, like how Dallas got Seguin for example.  Maybe there's a deal out there for us that would allow us to by-pass tanking to achieve. 

 

Anyways, it's just a numbers game.  Three years worth of picks is/should be good enough to form a brand new team in many aspects.

[Wrek]

We did have it my way. The games came to play the last two seasons. But they didn't have the assets to earn the points. So we got Monahan, Bennett, etc. This season kids like Gaudreau, Monahan, and Brodie are forcing the issue and we are winning games.

If you "losers" had it your way that would mean those guys aren't playing as well as they are. Complaining that our young team is playing too well so we might get a slightly lower draft pick is silly. There isn't anything to complain about.

 

Most of the "losers" cheered most when we won games on the backs of our future prospects. It was/is great.

But when we win meaningless points that would of moved us from drafting Nurse over Monahan, on that backs of people like Cammi ect who would only show up for a paycheck, I couldn't careless if we won a game over the Oiler's at the time, you know why? DRAFT POSITION

 

The youth movement is in full effect now, and i'm glad as hell we have the likes of Monahan over Nurse, and Bennet over Dal Colle, Vertanen ect

 

News flash, we still don't have the assets to go all the way. We have obviously passed the draft high stage (cmon lottery), because of key players (Gio, Monahan, Brodie, Gaudreau) the list could go on really.

 

Now it's time we see a good trade from Treliving, and get rid of some expiring assets to further improve the team.

Instead of plugs like Seto, Bollig, Engelland, Diaz.

[cross16]

In a perfect world, throw me in the camp that wants one more high pick. I think if the flames were able to land a top D or W prospect it would really round out the prospects they already have. Having said that, I do agree that the experience being gained right now is far more valuable and another thing I want to mention is I think far too often people only focus in the draft and are assuming we have to draft our entire team and forget that if we just continue to draft well in all rounds we are going to have enough prospects to be very flexible in trades to fill the holes. Already you have seen the likes of Baertschi, Granlund, and Jooris come up as rookies and potential become trade assets or potentially make players like colborne or backlund expendable. To me good drafting is all about creating assets and options not rebuilding your entire team. I don't think that is realistic.

[kehatch]

The great thing about being a fan is that it's win win right now. If we make the playoffs that's fantastic. If we just miss them at least we saw a LOT of progress as a team and with our individual players. If we fall off completely we get a player that will help the rebuild.

I understand why people want a high draft pick. I don't understand how people can be concerned over the success we are having. This has been a spectacular season.

[cccsberg]

cccsberg, i'm cheering for high picks AND 4th rounders to make the team and have an impact.  I want to have it all.  Why must cheering for high picks automatically mean we don't care about late round picks?  Imagine drafting in the top 3 AND the late round picks all pan out.  That's crazy awesome.

 

No where do we suggest to draft in the top 3 and then neglect the development of the later picks.

The thing with me is that cheering for a high draft pick(i.e. losing) seems counter to good development (i.e. winning). I'm happiest for good draft picks (not necessarily high ones) and great development.

[jjgallow]

Abbreviated some of your comments.

By the time McDavid or Eichel is ready (minimum 2 years, max 4 years), your other picks would need to be top line players. EDM is not set up to succeed with either of those guys. BUFF is closer due to all the 1st round picks from trades and such.

 

Abbreviated yours as well lol, sorry

 

I'm pretty sure we're all aware that McDavid and Eichel are at least a couple years away from their prime years (best case scenario).

 

Two comments on that (options, really):

 

As per my post, I suggested we're 2-3 years away from being a contender, regardless.  So McDavid and Eichel both fit into our timeline.  In the event we were fortunate enough to get them, we would keep them.  We would have too many centers, and we would have to resolve that issue with an unpopular trade involving either Monahan or Bennet.  But not right away.  We would have to see what we have in Bennet first.

 

More likely, we'll get a high pick, but not McDavid or Eichel.   Very likely, we trade that pick for a top D prospect.  Because this, not Center, is our bottleneck.  We will not be a contender until we address this position.

 

A high draft pick does not necessarily push our rebuild out.  It just adds value.  Value that can be traded.

[Wrek]

Abbreviated yours as well lol, sorry

 

I'm pretty sure we're all aware that McDavid and Eichel are at least a couple years away from their prime years (best case scenario).

 

Two comments on that (options, really):

 

As per my post, I suggested we're 2-3 years away from being a contender, regardless.  So McDavid and Eichel both fit into our timeline.  In the event we were fortunate enough to get them, we would keep them.  We would have too many centers, and we would have to resolve that issue with an unpopular trade involving either Monahan or Bennet.  But not right away.  We would have to see what we have in Bennet first.

 

More likely, we'll get a high pick, but not McDavid or Eichel.   Very likely, we trade that pick for a top D prospect.  Because this, not Center, is our bottleneck.  We will not be a contender until we address this position.

 

A high draft pick does not necessarily push our rebuild out.  It just adds value.  Value that can be traded.

 

If we were fortunate enough to win the lottery and have a chance to choose between the two, I would rather we traded the pick away, and pick up some D prospects. And besides why would we have to trade 1 of Monahan or Bennett? From what I have been reading Bennett has a good chance of moving to the wing unless we need him at Center. 

[robrob1974]

cccsberg, i'm cheering for high picks AND 4th rounders to make the team and have an impact. I want to have it all. Why must cheering for high picks automatically mean we don't care about late round picks? Imagine drafting in the top 3 AND the late round picks all pan out. That's crazy awesome.

No where do we suggest to draft in the top 3 and then neglect the development of the later picks.

The number is not entirely arbitrary. Teams picks 7 rounds on average (some more or less depending on trades). Three times seven is twenty one players drafted. A full team is a 23-roster. First fill Addy with players and then draw players from Addy to the Flames.

One high pick cannot form a core alone whereas two can. Three is better than two. Yes, four is better than three but four is waiting too long. We don't have to draft them all ourselves. We can trade for them, like how Dallas got Seguin for example. Maybe there's a deal out there for us that would allow us to by-pass tanking to achieve.

Anyways, it's just a numbers game. Three years worth of picks is/should be good enough to form a brand new team in many aspects.

When was Getzlaf and Perry drafted? How about Giroux? Kopitar? Krejci or Bergeron? I am throwing names out there, some drafted higher than others. But we needed a few high end picks. I get that. Gaudreau is performing better than a lot of first rounders so far. Brodie is performing like he couldve been drafted higher.

I agree though we could use a higher pick, but theyre performing great as a team. If we czn continue this identity for years to come, it's better to start now.

[Kulstad]

Due to (unpopular ?) contributions in other threads, this thread has been re-opened.  Most of the recent comments have been moved from the Can we make the Playoffs this year? thread (linky-poo, in case some of the conversation needs piecing together --> http://fans.flames.nhl.com/community/topic/21086-can-we-make-the-playoffs-this-year/).

[robrob1974]

Good read on our depth drafting record as of late.

http://flames.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=746250

[FiresideChat]

One good thing about this draft is that there are about 10 guys that are as good of prospects as Bennett, it's deep. If the Flames finish picking 7-12, we should get one of them which is good. 

 

McDavid, Eichel and Marner are starting to look like the top 3 (Marner has risen because he's already posted 77 points in 38 games this year) with Strome and Hanifin rounding out the Amazing 5. All of those guys are roughly about the same talent level as Ekblad or better. 

 

After that you have Kylington, Roy, Werenski and Provorov as defenders that could go from 6-14 and we will likely be getting one of them. If not you have Barzal (who's probably the closest to a Bennett clone in this draft), Zacha, Sprong and Merkley who round out the best of the bunch. There are some oversized guys like Crousse and Rantanen, but they are not very good for a top 15 pick in a draft like this. Skill is more important than size when you're in the top 15.

[DirtyDeeds]

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2015/01/07/oilers-fans-who-put-draft-picks-ahead-of-winning-have-it-all-wrong

above is a good read...

 

 

 

 

This threadbelow is choice read over on the Oilers message board and will only get better:

http://fans.oilers.nhl.com/community/topic/16025-this-article-deserves-its-own-thread/

[The_People1]

Post-2004 lockout, we've seen almost all teams win the Cup after drafting in the top 2. Only Detroit didn't follow this rule.  I just want to put it out there right now that the teams in a playoff spot include,

 

Eastern Conference:

Tampa Bay Lightning - Stamkos (#1), Hedman (#2)

New York Islanders - Tavares (#1)

Pittsburgh Penguins - Crosby (#1), Malkin (#2), Staal (#2)

Washington Capitals - Ovechkin (#1)

Boston Bruins - Seguin (#2)

 

Western Conference:

Anaheim Ducks - Bobby Ryan (#2)

Chicago Blackhawks - Kane (#1)

St.Louis Blues - Erik Johnson (#1)

LA Kings - Doughty (#2)

 

All these teams above drafted very well in all rounds, traded very well, and signed UFA's very well.  They also drafted in the top 2 since the 2004 lockout.  The other teams in the playoffs without a top 2 pick since post-2004 lockout include,

 

Montreal Canadiens

Detroit Red Wings

New York Rangers

Nashville Predators

San Jose Sharks

Winnipeg Jets

Vancouver Canucks

Calgary Flames

 

The teams on this second list neglected a top 2 pick but instead, simply drafted very well in all rounds, traded very well, and signed UFA's very well.

 

I really wonder who will win the Cup this year.  Will it be a team who neglected a Top 2 pick?  If so, then i will hereby officially soften my stance on the notion that the Flames would benefit tremendously by drafting a Top 2 pick. It would mean all we need is to draft very well in all rounds, trade very well, and sign UFA's very well.

 

If not, then i will remain with my stance on the notion that drafting in the Top 2 is indeed a key ingredient to winning the Cup.

 

We also know that drafting in the Top 2 does not equal an automatic Cup win. Many teams have proved this.  So therefore, drafting in the Top 2 is not the only ingredient needed. It is only one of many key ingredients.  We even know that it's possible to win a Cup without one, a.k.a. Detroit.  But we can also conclude, at the same time, that is it tremendously more likely to win a Cup after drafting one.

 

Moving forward, if more teams win the Cup without drafting in the Top 2, then i must change my views about Top 2 picks as well.

[KidKappa]

Post-2004 lockout, we've seen almost all teams win the Cup after finishing in the top 8 of their conference. Only the Oilers seem to believe that this is untrue.   I just want to put it out there right now that the teams in a playoff spot include,

 

Eastern Conference:

Tampa Bay Lightning 

New York Islanders

Pittsburgh Penguins 

Washington Capitals 

Boston Bruins 

Montreal Canadiens

Detroit Red Wings

New York Rangers

 

Western Conference:

Anaheim Ducks 

Chicago Blackhawks 

St.Louis Blues 

Nashville Predators

San Jose Sharks

Winnipeg Jets

Vancouver Canucks

Calgary Flames

 

 

All these teams above drafted very well in all rounds, traded very well, and signed UFA's very well.  They also finished in the TOP 8 of their conference during the year they won they cup since the 2004 lockout.  

 

I really wonder who will win the Cup this year.  Will it be a team who  doesn't finish top 8 in their conference?  If so, then i will hereby officially soften my stance on the notion that the Flames would benefit tremendously by finishing top 8 in their conference.. It would mean all we need is to draft very well in all rounds, trade very well, and sign UFA's very well.

 

If not, then i will remain with my stance on the notion that finishing top 8 in the conference is indeed a key ingredient to winning the Cup.

 

We also know that finsihing Top 2 does not equal an automatic Cup win. Many teams have proved this.  So therefore, finishing Top 2 is not the only ingredient needed. It is only one of many key ingredients.  We even know that it's possible to win a Cup without finishing top 2 , a.k.a. La Kings.  But we can also conclude, at the same time, that is it tremendously more likely to win a Cup after finishing top 8 in the conference.

 

Moving forward, if more teams win the Cup without finishing top 8 in the conference, then i must change my views about finishing top 8 in the conference as well.

[conundrumed]

Post-2004 lockout, we've seen almost all teams win the Cup after drafting in the top 2. Only Detroit didn't follow this rule.  I just want to put it out there right now that the teams in a playoff spot include,

 

Eastern Conference:

Tampa Bay Lightning - Stamkos (#1), Hedman (#2)

New York Islanders - Tavares (#1)

Pittsburgh Penguins - Crosby (#1), Malkin (#2), Staal (#2)

Washington Capitals - Ovechkin (#1)

Boston Bruins - Seguin (#2)

 

Western Conference:

Anaheim Ducks - Bobby Ryan (#2)

Chicago Blackhawks - Kane (#1)

St.Louis Blues - Erik Johnson (#1)

LA Kings - Doughty (#2)

 

All these teams above drafted very well in all rounds, traded very well, and signed UFA's very well.  They also drafted in the top 2 since the 2004 lockout. 

If I'm reading this right, you're pointing out 8 out of 12 difference-makers. Slightly below 67% isn't exactly an awesome number to tank for.

You can argue for Seguin, but the others are bonafide crushing it for their teams.

[mike_jones]

How many cups could an Oiler chuck, if an Oiler could chuck a top 2 pick?

 

*Chuckles*