robrob1974 Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 Most of the West got better. Some stayed the about the same. VAN is one I think got worse, but that is bringing in Miller and losing Kessler. The East is another story. So many teams got robbed by FA. Others overpaid to get those guys. My feeling is that the East loses a lot of games to the West. I actually think that Vancouver got better. I think Kesler has become redundant due to injuries. Yes, he was one of their leading goal scorers, but they're younger and Miller is an upgrade on Lack. Luongo was misused last year and the coaching did a huge sky dive after that infamous game against the Flames where Torts went after Hartley. He lost the room that day. Bonino was the Ducks 3rd leading scorer. If he's Vancouver's 3rd leading scorer and who knows if the Twins can get back to their scoring touch. Vrbata could be a good fit with the twins and their defence is still quite decent. It depends on whether they can play up to the powers that is the Pacific? With all of the other teams getting better as well, I am thinking they will at least fight for a playoff spot. The West got harder, and we haven't improved very much. It's going to be a elbowing show this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s4xon Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 Most of the West got better. Some stayed the about the same. VAN is one I think got worse, but that is bringing in Miller and losing Kessler. The East is another story. So many teams got robbed by FA. Others overpaid to get those guys. My feeling is that the East loses a lot of games to the West. Toronto is a team that comes to mind. FA's don't want to go there anymore. They lost some key players to FA, have some horrendous contracts on the books from knee jerk reaction signings from last summer - aka Clarkson, and can't seem to shake some contracts that they want move and/or players that want out, such as Kadri and Reimer, and even Phaneuf. The rest of the NHL and especially the rest of Canada are in for a treat when we see the TSN panel struggling through their Leafs news on a weekly basis. They may be rebuilding again. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Canucks have done enough to replace Kesler's scoring with adding Bonino at C, and Vrbata on the wing with the Sedins. Miller is an upgrade in net. I don't think Benning is done either. They shouldn't be a 6th worst place team next season, however I don't see them as a playoff team either. The Flames and the Oilers will be duking it out for the bottom seeds. Again, I don't think either is by choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 Toronto is a team that comes to mind. FA's don't want to go there anymore. They lost some key players to FA, have some horrendous contracts on the books from knee jerk reaction signings from last summer - aka Clarkson, and can't seem to shake some contracts that they want move and/or players that want out, such as Kadri and Reimer, and even Phaneuf. The rest of the NHL and especially the rest of Canada are in for a treat when we see the TSN panel struggling through their Leafs news on a weekly basis. They may be rebuilding again. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Canucks have done enough to replace Kesler's scoring with adding Bonino at C, and Vrbata on the wing with the Sedins. Miller is an upgrade in net. I don't think Benning is done either. They shouldn't be a 6th worst place team next season, however I don't see them as a playoff team either. The Flames and the Oilers will be duking it out for the bottom seeds. Again, I don't think either is by choice. I agree, that Leafs team is a elbowing show and I don't know how Phaneuf got that raise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 Toronto is a team that comes to mind. FA's don't want to go there anymore. They lost some key players to FA, have some horrendous contracts on the books from knee jerk reaction signings from last summer - aka Clarkson, and can't seem to shake some contracts that they want move and/or players that want out, such as Kadri and Reimer, and even Phaneuf. The rest of the NHL and especially the rest of Canada are in for a treat when we see the TSN panel struggling through their Leafs news on a weekly basis. They may be rebuilding again. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Canucks have done enough to replace Kesler's scoring with adding Bonino at C, and Vrbata on the wing with the Sedins. Miller is an upgrade in net. I don't think Benning is done either. They shouldn't be a 6th worst place team next season, however I don't see them as a playoff team either. The Flames and the Oilers will be duking it out for the bottom seeds. Again, I don't think either is by choice. Yes, Miller is an upgrade over Lack. Not Luongo, though. Oilers will likely try to play Draisaitl this year, and will regret it. COL will likely be worse or no better, due to losing Statsny and not really upgarding on D, and the usual ROR situation. SJS will regress this year. CHI will have cap issues and likely will lose some of their core. WASH will be as defensive as the Penguins (in other words, not). They lost Grabo. PITS falls a bit. BUFF moves up a bit, but they have experience in tank mode. No Miller to help out either. DET may not make the playoffs this year. NYR - who is left on that team? MON could be in a world of hurt this year. Rosters will change, but the arms race continues to have victims and (so called) victors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 Signing a goaltender for the next two years bought Treliving some breathing room in case of injury. It definitely won't be the Flames losing to lose, but Lucid and Peeps will be happy to know that the with the current players going into next season, the roster is looking very McDavid worthy. JJ will be ecstatic! Any kids that come up and play will learn to play their hearts out, maybe steal a few wins, but they'll see firsthand what losses look like. The heart being the difference between the Oilers and the Flames. The major UFAs are off the market now. Only hasbeens and depth players remain and with the cap floor effectively reached, I don't feel the Flames are in the hunt for much more UFAs. Maybe we see someone like Stempniak return but that's about it. The RFA poaching route is an unlikely road Treliving will take due to Burke's past experience with it. I feel what we see is what we'll get come October. I agree, what we see is McDavid worthy, which is perfectly fine for a team in a rebuild. Some common suggestions that combat the obvious McDavid worthy roster: 1. Ryan O'Reilly: There are suggestions we will target ROR but the problem with that is we have next to nothing of equal value to trade Colorado other than Giordano so trading Giordano for ROR is a sideways move, if not a critical blow to the Flames already sub-par blueline. What the Flames gain at Center is lost on D. Same goes for losing Wideman and Brodie who the Flames can ill afford to trade away. Maybe we only offer Backlund? But who else to package with Backlund because Backlund alone doesn't get it done. Combo'ing Backlund with high draft picks is an ill-advised move for the Flames who need draft picks to develop. Combo'ing Backlund with Jones hurts the Avs's cap situation and the Avs parted ways with Jones once already. Combo'ing Backlund with Hudler? That hurts the Flames RW. An ROR trade does not necessarily bring the Flames out of the Bottom 5 next season. 2. The Gaudreau factor (and young kids impact): Okay sure, Gaudreau is a potential rookie of the year candidate and Monahan could be an emerging force this coming season. Great argument for getting the Flames out of the Bottom 5, except unfortunately, the Panthers, Oilers, Islanders, Sabres, Hurricanes, Senators, etc, all have a Gaudreau equivalent talent emerging to go along with Monahan-like players. This basically cancels each other out. What it takes to get over the hump and bypass these teams is an overpowering emergence of young players like Monahan, Gaudreau, Bennett, Piorier, Klimchuk, Ramo, Ortio, etc, all at around the same time and the Flames are honestly two seasons away from that. This is not the year. 3. Management will not allow tanking: I believe Management did the best to reach the cap floor while not addressing meaningful team needs. I believe this was partly intentional and to me, this is a fine approach in year two of a rebuild. That's the main explanation for an overpayment to Engelland, a low pairing Dman at $2.9-mil-per. That's also an explanation for signing Hiller for $4.5-mil-per to sit on the bench for half the season while Ramo develops. The only help up front has been a 2nd/3rd line Toronto Maple Leafs castaway and a 4th line tough guy in Bollig. There may still be a Stempniak or Setoguchi to come but that's hardly a replacement for Cammalleri. Instead, all moves point to the idea of sheltering their kids from shock with veterans and to prevent a losing culture from creeping into the locker room by having veterans shoulder the blame for the losses. There has not been enough meaningful moves to elevate the Flames in the standings but instead, just stop gap pieces to allow their kids to develop under less pressure. There is no focus to win this coming season. Manangement has done their best to make a sideways move without intentionally making the team worse. 4. We must wait until October to judge this roster: I don't think so. - impact UFAs are all gone - impact RFAs will create holes on the team to acquire - trades will create holes on the team due to a lack of depth Options remaining are few. It's a "let 'em play and see what we've got" season. At present time, i think the Buffalo Sabres are still a runaway worst team in the NHL. After that, the Flames are in a fight with the Senators, Islanders, Panthers, and the Oilers for second worst. Based on the potential of their youth, it's fair to think the Panthers and Oilers will be trending upwards. Islanders added a few nice complementary pieces too. A fair target for the Flames this coming season is 27th to 29th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 I am surprised nobody is listing Ottawa. They are our biggest contender for last place next season IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 I am surprised nobody is listing Ottawa. They are our biggest contender for last place next season IMO. I did, http://fans.flames.nhl.com/community/topic/20517-flames-losing-for-higher-draft-order/?p=648864 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 3, 2014 Report Share Posted July 3, 2014 I am surprised nobody is listing Ottawa. They are our biggest contender for last place next season IMO.As soon as I posted I realized I left them out. They will wander in the desert for awhile now, with the ownership being a cheapo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKarkemSK Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 I'm a new member so, pardon me if I've said the same things as other people, first off i'd like to do that. When asking If tanking should be acceptable, the clear and obvious answer is no. When i think of tanking, theres nothing that stops my mind into what the Edmonton Oilers did to their franchise, and how their fans jumped on the idea and thought it was great, the way the Katz group pretty much runs the show. in the 2007-08 season the oilers actually played decent hockey and had a good record. led by most of the stanley cup losing team of 06 so they had reasonable depth and players with the will to win. example: Sam Gagner Jarret Stoll Fernando Pisani Steve Staios Curtis Glencross Raffi Torres Sheldon Souray Ethan Moreau from then on they started to tumble and the players you needed to win disappeared 08-09 Shawn Horcoff Sam Gagner Erik Cole Ethan Moreau 09-10 this year they tanked it hard the famous "Fall for Hall" their leading scorer of all people was dustin penner, it was also when hemsky went into an injury proned loser (thank you for that regher) Sam Gagner Shawn Horcoff Tom Gilbert and from then on we can all tell pretty much where they are and why they are there. Now its hard to say when the flames began their "retool" or official "rebuild" but I think common consensus would be the lockout shortened season 2 seasons ago. The flames depth players who I believe are the key players to any championship would have been Mike Cammalleri Lee Stempniak Jiri Hudler Curtis Glencross Matt Stajan Dennis Wideman Mark Giordano Tim Jackman Brian McGrattan Max Reinhart then the following season with our 3 pick first round which stacked the cupboards prefusely our depth players we had were Jiri Hudler Mark Giordano Mike Cammalleri Mikael Backlund Sean Monahan Matt Stajan Kris Russell Curtis Glencross Lance Bouma Brian Mcgratton following our moves so far and whos in and whos out we have Jiri Hudler Mark Giordano Mikael Backlund Sean Monahan Matt Stajan Kris Russell Curtis Glencross Lance Bouma Brian McGrattan I dont really see Raymond or Engelland being a crucial part of our cup winning team when that happens. but with our depth players who can teach players how to win in a NHL game and our grown rookies coming into the fold with good chances like Wotherspoon, Granlund, Hanowski, Seiloff, Agostino, I think our future is much more bright at a time of darkness than what the oilers had and how they did thier rebuild. Coach Hartley's persistant effort and dedication into hard work and for winning is also a much needed thing for a young and up and coming team, keeping a single coach is also a better idea then making a kid learn a different system every single year. Point in hand. You can't tank to rebuild, You need the right character people to win a stanley cup, I believe we are on the right track. screw the oilers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s4xon Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 ^ welcome and well said. ---------------------------------------------------------- I didn't mention Ottawa because they still have Ryan, Anderson, and Karlsson. While they may not be team saviors, they are pretty high profile names. Turris also helps shore up some offense. They'll be bad, not a playoff team, but I don't believe as bad as some people think. They also have a target on their back by the NHL offices due to previous tanking endeavors. Calgary's high profile name is Gio. Gaudreau may have a breakout season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfire11 Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 So what has Brad and Brian done in the last 2 months to ensure we are not bottom feeders next year? 1) brought in some new management staff. 2) new training staff 3) Let our best offensive player go for free (Cammi) ( Nothing (in good taste) could be done about that) 4) Drafted GOOD Bennet fell to us and pick 34 was off the board but serviceable. 5) Picked up a few serviceable RA s NO nail biting suspense or great trading acumen just 3 guys we can use that nobody else wanted. In my opinion we have all the excuses in place for a top 2 pick next year. Brian Brad and Hartley will still have a job after a losing season. In other words we have redefined the term ( losing for a higher pick) to (whats the bare minimum we can do to make it LOOK like we are not going after the #1 OA in 2015) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucid_Flame91 Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 I could careless about #1 OA next year, yes it has all the perks that been said over and over again, but as the flames have done drafting at #6 Monahan, and #4 Bennett. Once again not getting #1 OA isnt the end of the world, but we will be fighting for it. What will be interesting to see is if they make changes to the draft lottery ect before this 15' draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s4xon Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 I could careless about #1 OA next year, yes it has all the perks that been said over and over again, but as the flames have done drafting at #6 Monahan, and #4 Bennett. Once again not getting #1 OA isnt the end of the world, but we will be fighting for it. What will be interesting to see is if they make changes to the draft lottery ect before this 15' draft. They'll announce it after they see Calgary in the #1 draft position near the end of the season. Once the changes are made, Calgary will lose the lottery 4 x to pick 5th seed. Then Bettman will be happy. Can't have McDavid, Eichel, or Hanifin lost to the Flames now can we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 They'll announce it after they see Calgary in the #1 draft position near the end of the season. Once the changes are made, Calgary will lose the lottery 4 x to pick 5th seed. Then Bettman will be happy. Can't have McDavid, Eichel, or Hanifin lost to the Flames now can we? Does that mean we see MacT 1st to the podium? ************************************************ I rather like an idea I saw on DGB's Grantland a fews days ago. On the draft floor let the teams sit @ tables appropriate to recent performance. This year the Kings & Hawks get oak board tables while perennial top 5 drafters like Oilers,Florida & NYI huddle around wobbly tv trays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s4xon Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 I rather like an idea I saw on DGB's Grantland a fews days ago. On the draft floor let the teams sit @ tables appropriate to recent performance. This year the Kings & Hawks get oak board tables while perennial top 5 drafters like Oilers,Florida & NYI huddle around wobbly tv trays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 When I evaluate what management has done so far: 1. Manangement sat Cammalleri for the final game of the regular season and the Flames got blown out of the waters. That, with an Islanders win, the Flames slipped to 4th overall in the draft. 2. Management either failed to, or intentionally did not plan to re-sign Cammalleri. 3. Management then either failed to, or intentionally did not plan to replace Cammalleri's scoring. The Flames used to be two players short of a legit NHL first line. Now they are three players short of a legit NHL first line. 4. Overpays Deryk Engelland, a low pair Dman, to reach the cap floor. 5. Sign a back-up to $4.5-mil-per to reach the cap floor. These are signs that point to a management group that is either incompetent at making impact moves, and/or, is intentionally not trying to win next season (a.k.a. going for McDavid). What do you guys think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulstad Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 When I evaluate what management has done so far: 1. Manangement sat Cammalleri for the final game of the regular season and the Flames got blown out of the waters. That, with an Islanders win, the Flames slipped to 4th overall in the draft. 2. Management either failed to, or intentionally did not plan to re-sign Cammalleri. 3. Management then either failed to, or intentionally did not plan to replace Cammalleri's scoring. The Flames used to be two players short of a legit NHL first line. Now they are three players short of a legit NHL first line. 4. Overpays Deryk Engelland, a low pair Dman, to reach the cap floor. 5. Sign a back-up to $4.5-mil-per to reach the cap floor. These are signs that point to a management group that is either incompetent at making impact moves, and/or, is intentionally not trying to win next season (a.k.a. going for McDavid). What do you guys think? I could tell you what I think, but it would get me banned from the boards. There are way too many mitigating factors for you to boil something like this down to either X or Y. Player availability, player desire to come/stay here, $$$ factors, future vision of management, etc, etc, etc. The only fact that you can state unequivocally is that you're not part of the management/decision-making team, and that you can only speculate why they've done what they've done. Until you *are* part of that team, and a member of the innner-inner-circle of that team (so that you can bear witness to any of your conspiracy theories or thoughts), here's your tinfoil hat back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 I could tell you what I think, but it would get me banned from the boards. There are way too many mitigating factors for you to boil something like this down to either X or Y. Player availability, player desire to come/stay here, $$$ factors, future vision of management, etc, etc, etc. The only fact that you can state unequivocally is that you're not part of the management/decision-making team, and that you can only speculate why they've done what they've done. Until you *are* part of that team, and a member of the innner-inner-circle of that team (so that you can bear witness to any of your conspiracy theories or thoughts), here's your tinfoil hat back. No member on the boards is a member of the management team as far as we know. Does that mean no one should have an opinion on observable results from the management team, including yourself? No. I have presented empirical evidence to support the notion that management is accepting a high draft pick as a result of this up coming season with either an incompetence to steer the course another way, or with conscious intentions to do so. I feel it's a conscious intention to do so and I also feel that's completely fine. Let's take a closer look at the points you casually presented to dismiss this notion. Player availability: Plenty of impact UFAs were available and yet the Flames were only able to land a Toronto Maple Leafs castaway, a low pair Dman, and a former #1 goalie. We will never know who they talked to so either this means management is incompetent, or they intentionally didn't try to improve the team by targetting impact UFAs. Player desire to come/stay here: The Flames are rebuilding and its difficult to attract impact UFAs. Yet the Sabres are coming off one of the worst winning percentages in NHL history to attract a better group of UFAs overall. Buffalo is a small market much like Calgary. Both are cold in the winter and don't offer the lifestyle available in warmer places. So, this means either management is incompetent, or they intentionally didn't try to improve the team by targetting impact UFAs. $$$ Factor: Flames ownership is fine spending to the cap and the Flames have an abundance of cap space so that's not an excuse for failing to land an impact UFA. There was lots of $$$ available. Perhaps Treliving didn't want a bad contract. Yet, he overpaid for Engelland so that's not an excuse either. To me, he just wanted to hit the cap floor while getting a RH shot with the Engelland signing. What do you guys think? Future vision of management: impact RFAs are expensive to acquire in the form of high draft picks. The trades route would cause holes on the Flames who are thin on talent in almost every area. With such little resources available in the arsenal to acquire better players coupled with large unknowns with how their current prospects turn out in the coming years, management really doesn't have a lot of options but to be patient (a.k.a. let the season play out). By getting Raymond, Engelland, Hiller, and Bollig, Management appears to be sheltering the younger kids from the shock and responsibilities of losing by plugging the roster with complementary veterans to shoulder the blame. The Flames will lose games but management will not allow a losing culture to be established with the young core. The Flames are drafting high next season and management has more or less accepted. I hope some of you guys would too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucid_Flame91 Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 I remember something about Management saying the Flames were not going to trade for impact players cause that would deplete our prospect pool when we've finally just got it to this state. Along with not overpaying for impact players when free agency hits. That leaves 1 option for us in our current rebuild, THE DRAFT. I honestly doubt management thinks we can make the play-offs, and I doubt they want to draft 7-13 either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 The ditch people are happy because we largely avoided the UFA frenzy so didn't overpay mediocre players (which most with a few exceptions like Statsny were) & take that as a sign that management is trying to follow their preferred path. Few were what I would call "impact players". However, without overpaying there are very good players that will have to be shed by some teams to get under the cap. The reason they will be available is simply due to cap space so doesn't involve trading prospects earmarked as needed for the future but those deemed redundant because only a few with = skill sets, size & playing a given position can be on a team @ a given time. Later draft picks (odds get very slim by the 3rd) cost the other team 0 against cap space as do players still in college. The players shed won't be the superstars but many would upgrade our top 6 & top 2 defensive pairings. ******************************************************* I'm not sure how many of the "lose to win" crowd are serious & how many are simply trolling because they know many posters see that rarely successful method as abhorrent & are pulling our chains. For those that blindly follow the 1 course they have decided on it's easy to skew any detail to fit a limited view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 The ditch people are happy because we largely avoided the UFA frenzy so didn't overpay mediocre players (which most with a few exceptions like Statsny were) & take that as a sign that management is trying to follow their preferred path. Few were what I would call "impact players". I didn't see any more than a few "impact players" available in the UFA frenzy either... However, without overpaying there are very good players that will have to be shed by some teams to get under the cap. The reason they will be available is simply due to cap space so doesn't involve trading prospects earmarked as needed for the future but those deemed redundant because only a few with = skill sets, size & playing a given position can be on a team @ a given time. Later draft picks (odds get very slim by the 3rd) cost the other team 0 against cap space as do players still in college. The players shed won't be the superstars but many would upgrade our top 6 & top 2 defensive pairings. It sounds like you were paying attention to what Treliving had to say... It also sounds like a few people weren't... From: http://flames.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=724476 "I do think for teams that are nudged up against the cap or close to it, the numbers that came back in terms of the cap this year maybe gave some pause to some people with maybe under a little bit of some of the expectations." From: http://flames.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=725145 That space, some roster flexibility and the financial wherewithal to spend when appropriate will allow Treliving to be aggressive should the opportunity present itself in the coming months. “What I wanted to do is make sure we leave ourselves flexible,” he said. “There’s so much excitement around today that this is not the end. There’s going to be opportunities to add people. There may be situations whether it be cap related, player number related, roster situations, that opportunities may open for us. I wanted to make sure we didn’t close the door on that. “We are in very good position cap-wise to be aggressive if we can. We’ll see how things play out. It all depends on what opportunities come our way but I wanted to be able to react and be able to react to the opportunities that come our way. “We’re in a good position to entertain.” Now that is "empirical evidence"... I'm not sure how many of the "lose to win" crowd are serious & how many are simply trolling because they know many posters see that rarely successful method as abhorrent & are pulling our chains. I am starting to wonder myself... For those that blindly follow the 1 course they have decided on it's easy to skew any detail to fit a limited view. Just like stats can easily be misused to attempt to get a point across ... The same goes for interpreting observations of any given situation... You just have to leave out a few key pieces of any story, and it's a completely different story... I also think some people are missing the point Treliving made just how important term is on any deal that he considers... and unless it's for a true "impact player", I agree... From: http://flames.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=725145 “I was just adamant that three (years) or less with the cycle that we’re in right now. If things progress as we hope they progress, players are going to need new contracts in the next few years and you have to be prepared for this. This isn’t just planning for September. You’ve got to plan out a number of years. “The term for me was great. We have an opportunity over the next couple of years. We have some flexibility from a cash standpoint.” “The term is very important to us,” Treliving said. “These are not things where we’ve gone out five and six years. We wanted to keep things three years and under, which we’ve done on all of these contracts, over this period of time when we do have flexibility.” The Flames have that in spades. Even with signing the trio on July 1st, the Flames sit 29th in the NHL in committed payroll. Only the New York Islanders have less. More "empirical evidence"... and this evidence comes right from Treliving himself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucid_Flame91 Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 "We've put ourselves into a position where we can do x y and z, But from this day were just going to sit and wait and see if something lands in our laps from other teams messes." ok, cya at the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s4xon Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 "We've put ourselves into a position where we can do x y and z, But from this day were just going to sit and wait and see if something lands in our laps from other teams messes." ok, cya at the draft. Pretty much how I view it this season. Slow and steady, with hard hitting entertaining hockey keeping bums in the seats. Maybe a few acquisitions here and there. Draft a high profile stud on draft day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wreckening Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 My guess is Treliving is waiting in the weeds to pull the trigger on a trade or two. He may or may not do it depending on the price but I wouldn't put it past him to try and make a bold move on some teams that are feeling the cap crunch. We have to wait until the dust settles and teams figure out where they are, as we are only 3 days into FA. I think the Flames have players they are targeting and would be upset if they didn't. I trust they'll do their due diligence and make sure the deal is right before making the move. The reason I say this is I still don't believe the Flames are willing to be basement dwellers if they can help it at all. I believe they want to make significant improvement in the standings and will be willing to make the moves necessary to show everyone that this is an organization to want to come and play for as players and to cheer for as fans. Not only that, this is an organization that will soon be seeking money for a new arena and its hard to get support if your team is struggling. I'm not here to predict a trip to the playoffs this coming this season by any means. What I am saying is don't be surprised if we do end up drafting in the top 10 or lower. Call me overly positive if you like, I have broad shoulders, but I don't think this organization is happy with just ok. Brian Burke has said it himself many times that this will be a hard working, hard to play against team and I believe that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 I know what you are trying to say but winning has to be measured in relative terms to the skill/expectations of the team. It's not fair to point at a team that severly lacks talent like the Flames and say if they lose, then they have a losing culture because they simple can't win often even if they tried. There's not enough skill to overcome what the opponents can bring to the table. Wins or not, the important thing was the Flames had work ethic accountability and developed winning habits. I agree and I'm not suggesting that th flames currently have a losing culture but I don't think they have a winning one either as I agree that expectations do help dictate culture to a certain degree. However, at the end of the day in pro sports I believe you are always measure by your wins and losses and expectations can give you a pass temporarily but at some point you need to turn that work ethics accountability into wins otherwise that losing culture will develop and I think once it does it's hard to shake it. When I evaluate what management has done so far: 1. Manangement sat Cammalleri for the final game of the regular season and the Flames got blown out of the waters. That, with an Islanders win, the Flames slipped to 4th overall in the draft. 2. Management either failed to, or intentionally did not plan to re-sign Cammalleri. 3. Management then either failed to, or intentionally did not plan to replace Cammalleri's scoring. The Flames used to be two players short of a legit NHL first line. Now they are three players short of a legit NHL first line. 4. Overpays Deryk Engelland, a low pair Dman, to reach the cap floor. 5. Sign a back-up to $4.5-mil-per to reach the cap floor. These are signs that point to a management group that is either incompetent at making impact moves, and/or, is intentionally not trying to win next season (a.k.a. going for McDavid). What do you guys think? I don't think it's that black and white peeps. I see this as a management group trying to improve the team but doing so in a way that will not harm themselves long term or interfere with their plans which is to build this team through the draft. Sure they could have gone out and signed an impact player in free agency but you saw he contracts there were dolled out to get such players and secondly how easy do you think it is to get players to agree to commit to calgary for 4 or 5 years when their future is so uncertain. I think you've said this before but I believe this new management team needs to make a trade or two before you really know what they are made of because that's the only way I see them being able to improve this roster, free agency just was not going to do that for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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