Goaltending

[cccsberg]

Also Zach Fucale/Carey Price tandem looks pretty tempting as well.  

Or how about these?

Gibson/Anderson(RFA)-Anaheim

Dubnyk/Kuemper(RFA)-Minnesota

Halak/Berube-NYI

Lundqvist/Raanta-NYR

Allen/Elliot-SLB

Bishop(NMC)/Vasilevskiy/Gudlevskis(RFA)-TBL

Miller/Markstrom-Vancouver

Pavelec/Hellebyck-Winnipeg

 

PS: Fucale should be protected as a 2nd year player....

[cross16]

Neither Ortio nor Gilles are eligible for NMCs in their contracts.

As it stands now I don't think there is anyway Ortio would get claimed barring a rare and unlikely turnaround in his game. Looking around the league I see at least 5-6 better options out there for goalies than Ortio so he would be pretty far down the list so I think leaving him unprotected is a no brainer. Gilles is a different argument and a lot would of the debate would depend on who the flames acquire on the offseason but also how Gilles does in the AHL next year. If he is only so/so then I doubt he would get looked at seriously in an expansion draft. There are going to be some good goalies, and good young goalies, available in that draft

[cccsberg]

I'm not terribly worried about what goalie to protect. 

 

If Gillies is eligible to be picked, he will definitely be the one protected. 

 

if Gillies is not eligible, then we protect whoever our current starter is. If that's Ortio, great, if that's someone else, great. 

 

 

I'm a little concerned with Ortio's play the past week. 

 

6 of his first 7 games since call-up were good to great, with one stinker on a team breakdown. 

 

3 of his last 4 games have been weak, with one excellent game. 

 

Average is still decent (0.909, 2.55) but the trendline is a bit of a worry.

Don't agree, just because the stats are lower doesn't mean he played a "stinker".  

Neither Ortio nor Gilles are eligible for NMCs in their contracts.

As it stands now I don't think there is anyway Ortio would get claimed barring a rare and unlikely turnaround in his game. Looking around the league I see at least 5-6 better options out there for goalies than Ortio so he would be pretty far down the list so I think leaving him unprotected is a no brainer. Gilles is a different argument and a lot would of the debate would depend on who the flames acquire on the offseason but also how Gilles does in the AHL next year. If he is only so/so then I doubt he would get looked at seriously in an expansion draft. There are going to be some good goalies, and good young goalies, available in that draft

Gillies is automatically protected as a <3yr pro.

[cross16]

Don't agree, just because the stats are lower doesn't mean he played a "stinker".  

Gillies is automatically protected as a <3yr pro.

Players in the first and 2nd year pro careers will be protected. Assuming the draft happens in the 2017 offseason, which if it happens at all it will based on all the info I've read, that would make Gilles available as he will be going into his 3rd pro season.

[cccsberg]

Players in the first and 2nd year pro careers will be protected. Assuming the draft happens in the 2017 offseason, which if it happens at all it will based on all the info I've read, that would make Gilles available as he will be going into his 3rd pro season.

Looking back at the NHL article, it was stated as <3 years played, i.e. just 2 years pro, still protected.  Also, I have read the expansion draft would likely occur before July 1, 2017 therefore still part of the 2016 official season.  But, no reason to argue over it, once all the details come out and are fully clarified (e.g. NTC, NMC, dates, expansion Y/N?) we will know.

[cross16]

Looking back at the NHL article, it was stated as <3 years played, i.e. just 2 years pro, still protected.  Also, I have read the expansion draft would likely occur before July 1, 2017 therefore still part of the 2016 official season.  But, no reason to argue over it, once all the details come out and are fully clarified (e.g. NTC, NMC, dates, expansion Y/N?) we will know.

I can't link it but Pierre Lebruns article said that 2nd year players entering their 3rd years are no long exempt and that would be Gilles. I have read that elsewhere as well.

[jjgallow]

I'm not terribly worried about what goalie to protect. 

 

If Gillies is eligible to be picked, he will definitely be the one protected. 

 

if Gillies is not eligible, then we protect whoever our current starter is. If that's Ortio, great, if that's someone else, great. 

 

 

I'm a little concerned with Ortio's play the past week. 

 

6 of his first 7 games since call-up were good to great, with one stinker on a team breakdown. 

 

3 of his last 4 games have been weak, with one excellent game. 

 

Average is still decent (0.909, 2.55) but the trendline is a bit of a worry.

 

I don't think he'll be here for enough games to make a trendline.   I don't think he was bad last night, and I think he was very good the night before.

 

I DO think the Flames have been overdue to give him a break, let him see the game from another angle, and get hungry again.

 

That will happen Sunday.    And hopefully Ortio comes back recharged with a strong performance.

 

I agree, if you have to choose between Gillies and Ortio (not sure about this), then you protect Gillies.

 

That's not to say Ortio can't be a starter.  He's 2 years younger than when Kipper became a starter, and already playing decent NHL hockey.   It all depends on the ability of the player to continue improving.

 

p.s....I still think we should be bringing in more young prospects.    And I don't think we want to leave Gillies unprotected.  So that basically rules out signing a veteran starter imho.  (I could be biased, lol)

[phoenix66]

I can't link it but Pierre Lebruns article said that 2nd year players entering their 3rd years are no long exempt and that would be Gilles. I have read that elsewhere as well.

At this point it's all still speculation and details left to work out. That being said tho if Gilles has to be protected then it's pretty straight forward that he is the one who would be. They do however need to keep that possibility in mind when looking for our #1 this summer.

You also have to keep in mind we will have to expose other good players who may be more appealing than our goalies.(Wotherspoon for example,Jooris,Colborne etc) The teams with solid 1a/1b tandems are the ones that really need to be worried.

[kehatch]

p.s....I still think we should be bringing in more young prospects. And I don't think we want to leave Gillies unprotected. So that basically rules out signing a veteran starter imho. (I could be biased, lol)

Assuming the Flames sign Ortio to an extensio and assuming that Gilles won't be exempt (TBD) we still need two goalies next season.

If you bring on a bridge goalie like Pavalec, Ramo, or Reimer then they are either UFA before it matters or they go unprotected.

If you bring on a good option like Varlamov then you have a year to see how the market shakes out and if you think Gilles/Ortii is at risk you can still protect him.

If you somehow manage to get one of the top young guys like Murray or Andersen then you take the risk. I agree with Cross that it is unlikely Gilles is going to get claimed given the number of good young goalies available.

[cross16]

At this point it's all still speculation and details left to work out. That being said tho if Gilles has to be protected then it's pretty straight forward that he is the one who would be. They do however need to keep that possibility in mind when looking for our #1 this summer.

You also have to keep in mind we will have to expose other good players who may be more appealing than our goalies.(Wotherspoon for example,Jooris,Colborne etc) The teams with solid 1a/1b tandems are the ones that really need to be worried.

Agreed. I don't think the prospect of potentially having to leave Gilles unprotected should have an Impact on who they pursue this offseason because I don't think it's a given Gilles would get claimed. Between other goalies that could/will be available and other flames talent that will be left unprotected I think leaving Gilles unprotected is a viable option.

However this really depends on how he plays next season. If Gilles plays lights out then I think h likely would have to be protected but I think you cross that bridge when you get there and still search aggressively for a starter this coming season. Obviously I'm not advocating giving up a ton for a goalie that would be left unprotected but I don't see the flames doing that anyway.

[JTech780]

I think the expansion teams will be looking for more veteran or more experienced goaltenders, so I am not too worried about leaving Gillies unprotected.

If Las Vegas gets a team the need to be able to win games right out of the gate, I doubt they will go with a bunch of rookie talent.

[kehatch]

I think the expansion teams will be looking for more veteran or more experienced goaltenders, so I am not too worried about leaving Gillies unprotected.

If Las Vegas gets a team the need to be able to win games right out of the gate, I doubt they will go with a bunch of rookie talent.

 

The expansion team is going to get 30 players.  Not all of them are going to be NHL players.  I would say about half of them are going to be added to their system with the remaining spots filled in via trade / free agency.  I think the eligible young prospects will be at as much risk as anyone to get picked.  

[JTech780]

The expansion team is going to get 30 players. Not all of them are going to be NHL players. I would say about half of them are going to be added to their system with the remaining spots filled in via trade / free agency. I think the eligible young prospects will be at as much risk as anyone to get picked.

Part of the reason that they want to make so few players protected per team is so the expansion team can be competitive right out of the gate by getting actual NHL talent.

Part of that is because Las Vegas needs to be able generate interest right away. I do t think that market can make it through 5-10 years of building.

[robrob1974]

I think we are too worried about our goalie situation in the expansion draft. Our goaltending sucks and Gillies and Ortio are not extreme high end potential goalies. I admit it depends on what they do next year, but I doubt our team loses a goalie when other teams have so much better to choose from. We sound silly.

[jjgallow]

I think we are too worried about our goalie situation in the expansion draft. Our goaltending sucks and Gillies and Ortio are not extreme high end potential goalies. I admit it depends on what they do next year, but I doubt our team loses a goalie when other teams have so much better to choose from. We sound silly.

 

I agree, and not....I'm not worried.   But for those of us who want out goaltending situation to be pristine at the start of next season, this complicates those plans.  What was a disadvantage, now looks like an advantage.

[travel_dude]

I agree, and not....I'm not worried.   But for those of us who want out goaltending situation to be pristine at the start of next season, this complicates those plans.  What was a disadvantage, now looks like an advantage.

 

If, and that's a big if, the expansion draft is for the 2017/18 season, Gillies is not going to be a good option for an expansion team. He won't be ready.  He will have only one season in the AHL.  We still need a starting goalie for an NHL this season.  He would be the one protected, unless he plays like crap.

 

If, on the other hand, the expansion is delayed, then we absolutely need a starter now.  

[phoenix66]

I think we are too worried about our goalie situation in the expansion draft. Our goaltending sucks and Gillies and Ortio are not extreme high end potential goalies. I admit it depends on what they do next year, but I doubt our team loses a goalie when other teams have so much better to choose from. We sound silly.

I disagree on Gillies.. He should be at least as good Gibson is in Anaheim

But on the topic I agree.. I think it will all work out fine. I think our #1 next year will be a player we will risk exposing if Gilles has to be exposed. But I don't think he does.

I still believe next year's likely #1 is starting against Montreal tomorrow

Makes even more sense with the expansion draft potential obstacles

[kehatch]

I agree, and not....I'm not worried. But for those of us who want out goaltending situation to be pristine at the start of next season, this complicates those plans. What was a disadvantage, now looks like an advantage.

Not a surprise, but I see the exact opposite. Goalies that were previously not available may now be available increasing our opportunity to get a starter for next season.

[DirtyDeeds]

Neither Ortio nor Gilles are eligible for NMCs in their contracts.

As it stands now I don't think there is anyway Ortio would get claimed barring a rare and unlikely turnaround in his game. Looking around the league I see at least 5-6 better options out there for goalies than Ortio so he would be pretty far down the list so I think leaving him unprotected is a no brainer. Gilles is a different argument and a lot would of the debate would depend on who the flames acquire on the offseason but also how Gilles does in the AHL next year. If he is only so/so then I doubt he would get looked at seriously in an expansion draft. There are going to be some good goalies, and good young goalies, available in that draft

Conroy was on the Fan960 this afternoon at the charity thing they have going on. When asked about goaltending he let slip the Flames are looking to bring in a solution. Then he said probably a couple. So expect the Flames to bring in a couple of starters if they are able to compete for the starting position.

 

BT has shown he is big on competition for training camp and this ended up hurting us with 3 goalies to start the year. I hope that the Starter will be clear when we start the regular season next year.

[darth_henning]

I don't think he'll be here for enough games to make a trendline.   I don't think he was bad last night, and I think he was very good the night before.

 

I DO think the Flames have been overdue to give him a break, let him see the game from another angle, and get hungry again.

 

That will happen Sunday.    And hopefully Ortio comes back recharged with a strong performance.

 

I agree, if you have to choose between Gillies and Ortio (not sure about this), then you protect Gillies.

 

That's not to say Ortio can't be a starter.  He's 2 years younger than when Kipper became a starter, and already playing decent NHL hockey.   It all depends on the ability of the player to continue improving.

 

p.s....I still think we should be bringing in more young prospects.    And I don't think we want to leave Gillies unprotected.  So that basically rules out signing a veteran starter imho.  (I could be biased, lol)

 

Once you're past 8 games, that's over 10% of a season. That's enough to start looking at trends. 

 

I don't think he was bad, he just wasn't good either. And that defines 3 of his past 4 games. Hopefully its just not being used to playing that many straight and needing a break. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I've been in the camp almost since the call-up happened that Ortio deserves a chance to compete for NHL starter next year to see if he can earn it. I think he has the potential. What he lacks is consistency (though that seems to be improving)

 

We definitely need a veteran starter for the next 2-3 years though. Ortio is a 50/50 shot at being able to be an NHL starter at best. So are most other prospects. We can't make that gamble at this stage of the rebuild.

 

Conroy was on the Fan960 this afternoon at the charity thing they have going on. When asked about goaltending he let slip the Flames are looking to bring in a solution. Then he said probably a couple. So expect the Flames to bring in a couple of starters if they are able to compete for the starting position.

 

BT has shown he is big on competition for training camp and this ended up hurting us with 3 goalies to start the year. I hope that the Starter will be clear when we start the regular season next year.

 

That worries me. That worries me a LOT. Do we need healthy competition? Yes. But it hould be between Ortio and an experienced goalie to see who earns the starter's job. Not a multi-way competition to see who gets playing time like screwed us over in the early part of this year. 

[cross16]

 

 

 

That worries me. That worries me a LOT. Do we need healthy competition? Yes. But it hould be between Ortio and an experienced goalie to see who earns the starter's job. Not a multi-way competition to see who gets playing time like screwed us over in the early part of this year. 

 

Its not just in the NHL thought you are very likely going to need a goalie for Heat as well. Gilles will be back yes and McDonald is elgible for the A but is that the tandem you want? Your are 1 injury away from having either Gilles or McDonald sit on the bench.

 

Ortio or no Ortio, the Flames likely do need 2 goalies in the offseason.

[kehatch]

Treliving is a smart GM. I seriously doubt we enter next season with 3 goalies again. That was a disaster this year and it won't be repeated. If they have more then 2 goalies to start camp the competition will be over before game 1.

[robrob1974]

Its not just in the NHL thought you are very likely going to need a goalie for Heat as well. Gilles will be back yes and McDonald is elgible for the A but is that the tandem you want? Your are 1 injury away from having either Gilles or McDonald sit on the bench.

Ortio or no Ortio, the Flames likely do need 2 goalies in the offseason.

My bet is that MacD starts in the ECHL and if he works his way up, it's a good place to start.

[cross16]

My bet is that MacD starts in the ECHL and if he works his way up, it's a good place to start.

Agreed. Which means you are looking for a goalie for the A too. Maybe it's Poulin, but I don't think it would be. I think they want someone who can give them NHL games if they needed it.

[cccsberg]

I think we are too worried about our goalie situation in the expansion draft. Our goaltending sucks and Gillies and Ortio are not extreme high end potential goalies. I admit it depends on what they do next year, but I doubt our team loses a goalie when other teams have so much better to choose from. We sound silly.

Agree that Ortio is still middling, though improving, but all Gillies has shown to date is high end potential and success to the highest level. Next year will be very telling, yes, but otherwise I think you're way off base.