kehatch Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 I love how everyone is an armchair GM with the draft when 99% of fans have never seen any of the prospects play outside of the top ones. Everyone is basing their reasoning on their brothers sisters uncles dogs friends dentist who lives next door to someone's grandmother. Unless you have watched some of these players play multiple times then you really have no clue what you are talking about. NHL scouts do this for a living, they are wrong at times but they are scouting 16 to 18 year olds. Its not an exact science on who is going to be the best player 5 years down the road. Agreed. The debate is fun. But those that get overly emotional in the draft following it really need to evaluate their perspective. So maybe the best plan would be to move Feaster up to replace King in the business part of hockey. Get Burkie in to do the hard-nosed stuff. Even though he was canned in TO, he put a lot of things in place that will help them going forward. My feeling with Feaster is that he negotiates like a lawyer, not a strong GM. Also, you should never have a lawyer as your PR person. I would prefer that to him staying as the GM. He seems capable of empowering his team and I think some of the micromanagement would disappear. But I want strong realistic vision in the leader and so far I haven't seen it from him. I would rather he was just gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young_Guns_V2 Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Take a pill haters. If it was Sutter we would not even have draft picks this season. Feasler is not perfect but seriously give him some time. He is at least trying to rebuild the club instead of staying at the status quot which got us nowhere.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Take a pill haters. If it was Sutter we would not even have draft picks this season. Feasler is not perfect but seriously give him some time. He is at least trying to rebuild the club instead of staying at the status quot which got us nowhere.. Feaster just started using the word rebuilding. Prior to now he was saying if they wanted a GM to rebuild the team they could fire him. He has made the desperation moves to try and make the playoffs. Same as Sutter. The difference is that Feaster failed to get them done. If Feaster was rebuilding and we end up in 25 place I think everyone is willing to give him a pass. But he was trying to win and ended up there. And he did it for three consecutive years. How is that defensible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young_Guns_V2 Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 You got someone better in mind? I say give the guy another year. I don't think he was trying to win that hard when he traded away our vets..Kipper was a total fail last year also and that did not help.You cant blame the GM for players who would rather golf than perform because he tried to change things. He finally saw what needs to be done and is working towards that. .He isn't perfect but he is starting to understand what needs to be done with this team. So give him some more time. He is not catastrophic or anything at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Missed his evaluation on the team for 3-seasons. He expected a playoff team when the talent was 'no where close'. This lead him to wait to long to make necessary changes pushing the rebuild back multiple seasons and failing to get maximum value for some of his biggest assets. Almost signed Richards to an excessive contract that would be haunting us now. Attempted the offer sheet to O'Reilly which at best would have cost us our 6-overall pick and at worst we would have lost the picks and then the player on waivers. Tried to trade down on our 6-overall to get a 29 year old second pairing D and a guy who is UFA in a season Continues to over promise (guarantee we make the playoffs, Cervenka best player not in the NHL, Ramo/Berra best goalies not in the NHL, Sven not making the team the 'upset special', Poirier and Klimchuk to 13 on their list forcing his directive of scouting to give a metaphorical 'I guess', etc) I think his next near miss will be offering an unreasonable contract to Lecavalier Signing Sarich/Babchuk to extensions only to watch them sit the bench and take up cap space Under him the Flames are consistently under controversy He constantly puts his foot in his mouth. The refusal to call it a rebuild. His commitment that if the Flames want to tear it down then they can find a new GM. Etc. I am sick of his stupid catch phrases. 'Post-Apex', 'Meritocracy', etc. Maybe that is just me. But it really bugs me. In terms of the transactions he has made most of them qualify as 'meh' moves. Which isn't bad, but it isn't good either. I don't have an issue with this draft and I don't think most of us are qualified to judge it until we see the results of the picks. I like the people he has surrounded himself with. I like what he has done for the development system. I like the fact he has increased the scope of prospect acquisition. But overall I want him gone. If we are going to have a GM that is constantly going for the home run moves then bring on a guy like Burke. He might miss once in awhile. But at least he is going to knock a few out of the park and he is far better then average on the basic transaction stuff. How many of the fans missed the need to rebuild though? Yes we were a few pieces away from contending, but they were huge pieces. I thought we should have rebuilt years ago. Mine would have been 5 years ago when Iginla would have netted a huge return. We were in the middle of a rebuild when we went to the Finals in 04. Going to the Finals put an unrealistic expectation on the team therefore the team stopped building and starting trading away picks where picks were still actually needed when we had very few prospects. How many years left on Feaster's contract? Should we sign a guy like Burke? I do like the style of play he builds towards. But he did make the mistake of trading two first rounders for Kessel. Ultimately it's probably what really lost his job in losing the opportunity of having Seguin and Hamilton. Kessel is fine though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis23 Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Feaster has failed miserably pretty much everything he's handled. Only bright spot is drafting a guy like Baer at 13th. Rest he has been nothing but a clown to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Also, I am not sure on the value on a lot of his trades. Buffalo got a decent return for Reghr while we got a bag of pucks and I can't believe we re-signed Butler (gave an offer sheet). I just feel like Feaster doesn't deal from a place of strength due to his reputation. Plus, I don't know if he is offering trades that are worth it for us. I remember hearing him say that, if we go for the big win in a trade then we're not going to get anywhere. While I get that, if you don't shoot high, it's quite possible you miss out on a good win, instead you shoot for a guy like Hanowski instead of other guys higher on Pittsburgh's list. I don't mind the trade with Colorado and with San Jose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Face it. Jay Feaster is untouchable. He has better odds of moving to upper management before he gets fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Missed his evaluation on the team for 3-seasons. He expected a playoff team when the talent was 'no where close'. This lead him to wait to long to make necessary changes pushing the rebuild back multiple seasons and failing to get maximum value for some of his biggest assets. Almost signed Richards to an excessive contract that would be haunting us now. Attempted the offer sheet to O'Reilly which at best would have cost us our 6-overall pick and at worst we would have lost the picks and then the player on waivers. Tried to trade down on our 6-overall to get a 29 year old second pairing D and a guy who is UFA in a season Continues to over promise (guarantee we make the playoffs, Cervenka best player not in the NHL, Ramo/Berra best goalies not in the NHL, Sven not making the team the 'upset special', Poirier and Klimchuk to 13 on their list forcing his directive of scouting to give a metaphorical 'I guess', etc) I think his next near miss will be offering an unreasonable contract to Lecavalier Signing Sarich/Babchuk to extensions only to watch them sit the bench and take up cap space Under him the Flames are consistently under controversy He constantly puts his foot in his mouth. The refusal to call it a rebuild. His commitment that if the Flames want to tear it down then they can find a new GM. Etc. I am sick of his stupid catch phrases. 'Post-Apex', 'Meritocracy', etc. Maybe that is just me. But it really bugs me. In terms of the transactions he has made most of them qualify as 'meh' moves. Which isn't bad, but it isn't good either. I don't have an issue with this draft and I don't think most of us are qualified to judge it until we see the results of the picks. I like the people he has surrounded himself with. I like what he has done for the development system. I like the fact he has increased the scope of prospect acquisition. But overall I want him gone. If we are going to have a GM that is constantly going for the home run moves then bring on a guy like Burke. He might miss once in awhile. But at least he is going to knock a few out of the park and he is far better then average on the basic transaction stuff. What trade down are you referring to ? I know he said after the draft they had offers to trade the pick for those kinds of players but that was specifically why he didnt make them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 What trade down are you referring to ? I know he said after the draft they had offers to trade the pick for those kinds of players but that was specifically why he didnt make them There were reports out of Philly that Feaster offered the Flames 6-overall for the 11-overall, Coburn, and Read. Not confirmed. But it was through legitimate Philly media. According to those reports Philly turned Calgary down. If it isn't true you can scratch that off the list. But it certainly appears that it did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsp393 Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Feaster just started using the word rebuilding. Prior to now he was saying if they wanted a GM to rebuild the team they could fire him. He has made the desperation moves to try and make the playoffs. Same as Sutter. The difference is that Feaster failed to get them done. If Feaster was rebuilding and we end up in 25 place I think everyone is willing to give him a pass. But he was trying to win and ended up there. And he did it for three consecutive years. How is that defensible? Sutter had a better iginla if nothing else, and with how iggy used to carry this team I would say that's atleast a strike in feasters favour. If we are going to get rid of feaster we should probably just clean house. KK is the exact same type as feaster (always says what you want to hear) and between him and ownership vs feaster/weisbrod I definatly put the blame on them for not rebuilding likely due to the flames struggles financially in the pre-iginla days. The scouting staff has failed us as much as anyone as well, are things looking up? to early to tell but atleast they have gone away from the "alberta hulks only" thinking. I honestly kind of like how we seem to favour college players as I see them as being better educated in general which should to some degree improve on ice IQ, I can't stand us picking up more brain dead Jokinens or Phaneufs. Majority of teams have gone up and down over their history so the fact were stuck having to rebuild isn't the most troubling thing to me. What bothers me is the constant bullcrap spewing out of feaster and KK's mouth, the lack of accountability this organization has shown from the players right through to ownership, and the ROR fiasco. I have personally liked a lot of feasters moves at the time they were made. They haven't all worked out for the best but a lot of that can be chalked up to other reasons. Feaster did a good job of obtaining the talented players we lacked without sacrificing too much of the future, unfortunatly we were beyond the retool stage and he sacrificed to much size to get there. Does Feaster deserve to be fired? Quite possibly, but so does the rest of the flames organization! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted July 3, 2013 Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 Take a pill haters. If it was Sutter we would not even have draft picks this season. Feasler is not perfect but seriously give him some time. He is at least trying to rebuild the club instead of staying at the status quot which got us nowhere.. Maybe it's the Feaster lovers that need to quit drinking the Kool-Aid instead... He is only now addressing the start of the re-tool rebuild because he is being forced to do so... Partially by his own actions, and more importantly by the necessary actions he failed to complete properly, or if at all even make an attempt on taking... He only recently even started using the phrase rebuild because he had backed himself into a corner with repeatedly using the phrase re-tool instead, when we all knew better... Typical lawyer... He stated emphatically on more than one occasion that he would not be the GM to go through a rebuild for the Flames, so he either sticks to his word, or at the very least addresses that fact and clears up the issue by making a statement of "Change of heart on the matter"... As has been stated, some of Feasters moves have been good enough, but not great... Some of them have been bad, but not too bad... "meh" is a word that has been used, and it fits for most of the moves... It is also only my opinion, but I think he has dropped the ball a few times as well... Is Feaster really the man we need as GM for this rebuild?... Only time will tell... Whether he is still in that position, or not... "Fool me once", my azz... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted July 3, 2013 Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 How many of the fans missed the need to rebuild though? Yes we were a few pieces away from contending, but they were huge pieces. I thought we should have rebuilt years ago. Mine would have been 5 years ago when Iginla would have netted a huge return. I agree. If you throw a ball as soon as it reaches its apex it is going to drop. You can either fight to keep the ball from dropping (futile) or you can throw another ball. The Flames did some good things starting in the 03/04 season that got them into the playoffs. They continued to do things to improve their team until 08/09. I think the team in 08/09 was the best Calgary team in a long time but we suffered injuries at the end of the season that really hurt us down the stretch and in the playoffs. In 09/10 the ball started to drop. There was optimism going into the season. We had acquired Bouwmeester to join Regehr, Phaneuf, and Giordano to form arguably the best top 4 in the league (on paper). We had brought on a guy expected to be the long awaited 1C (Jokinen). We had a hyped coach that was going to make everything right. But we struggled out of the gate and then went into free fall prior to the deadline. Rather then recognize the need for meaningful change at that time the team panicked and started a series of really bad transactions. That was followed up by 3 more seasons of bashing our heads against the wall while the team declined and our best assets dropped in value. It would have been very hard for the team to go into rebuild mode following the 08/09 season. But that is what they should have done. They should never have made the moves they did at the 09//10 trade deadline and there is no excuse they kept doing what they did for three more seasons. Even up to mid season last season they were still trying to claw themselves out of the hole. Sure some fans didn't recognize it. But most fans did and a majority of the hockey community did. There is no excuse that the Flames organization didn't recognize it. Should we sign a guy like Burke? I don't really like Burke. But I prefer him to Feaster. He connects on many of his home run attempts and he knows how to built a cup contending team. I question if he has the patience to rebuild a team though (as we saw in Toronto). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted July 3, 2013 Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 I haven't changed my tune. I didn't want him hired and he has done nothing IMO that is really all that good. I'm not going to give him credit for "rebuilding" when it was so obvious that he basically had no other choice. I think he's moves have been ok since they made the decision to rebuild but they've just been ok. I agree with a lot of what Kehatch said in terms of why I dislike Feaster but mainly it's the fact he spent two seasons taking this team backwards, he is a bit of a media hound, and I just think his limited hockey knowledge has come through in trades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted July 3, 2013 Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 he is a bit of a media hound, and I just think his limited hockey knowledge has come through in trades. I fully agree with what you said here cross... Too often to me over time, sometimes it seems that he is more of a lawyer, and less of a hockey man... Even though he has shown that he can make "safe" moves like today's acquisition of T.J.Galiardi (and I gave him kudo's for that in a different thread... The more time goes by, I just seem to have more doubt about whether Feaster is the right man for the job with the level of rebuild that is required, and also to minimize the time factor in getting the job done...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted July 3, 2013 Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 I wrote this in 2011. http://fans.flames.nhl.com/community/blog/37/entry-48-the-right-topic/ I wasn't the first one to say it. In fact that isn't the first time I said it. And other's said it much better then I did. But fans have been saying for years that we need a strategy of focusing on the future. Its nice that the GM finally caught up in June of 2013. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrippinVdUb Posted July 3, 2013 Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 My question is who? Feaster is too much of a lawyer, Shanny didn't have enough experience, Burke is too old school.... Nobody seems to stack up to the criteria wanted for this team. I don't disagree that Feaster isn't the ideal guy, but who is? To be honest I'm not sure how 2/3 of,the GMs out there have jobs, and there aren't allot of quality people out there right now..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted July 3, 2013 Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 My question is who? Feaster is too much of a lawyer, Shanny didn't have enough experience, Burke is too old school.... I don't disagree that Feaster isn't the ideal guy, but who is? To be honest I'm not sure how 2/3 of,the GMs out there have jobs, and there aren't allot of quality people out there right now..... There are guys out there. We missed out big time on getting Jim Nill for example. You just have to be willing to look to see who is available. If all else fails I would take Burke over Feaster as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfire11 Posted July 3, 2013 Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 Missed his evaluation on the team for 3-seasons. He expected a playoff team when the talent was 'no where close'. This lead him to wait to long to make necessary changes pushing the rebuild back multiple seasons and failing to get maximum value for some of his biggest assets. Almost signed Richards to an excessive contract that would be haunting us now. Attempted the offer sheet to O'Reilly which at best would have cost us our 6-overall pick and at worst we would have lost the picks and then the player on waivers. Tried to trade down on our 6-overall to get a 29 year old second pairing D and a guy who is UFA in a season Continues to over promise (guarantee we make the playoffs, Cervenka best player not in the NHL, Ramo/Berra best goalies not in the NHL, Sven not making the team the 'upset special', Poirier and Klimchuk to 13 on their list forcing his directive of scouting to give a metaphorical 'I guess', etc) I think his next near miss will be offering an unreasonable contract to Lecavalier Signing Sarich/Babchuk to extensions only to watch them sit the bench and take up cap space Under him the Flames are consistently under controversy He constantly puts his foot in his mouth. The refusal to call it a rebuild. His commitment that if the Flames want to tear it down then they can find a new GM. Etc. I am sick of his stupid catch phrases. 'Post-Apex', 'Meritocracy', etc. Maybe that is just me. But it really bugs me. In terms of the transactions he has made most of them qualify as 'meh' moves. Which isn't bad, but it isn't good either. I don't have an issue with this draft and I don't think most of us are qualified to judge it until we see the results of the picks. I like the people he has surrounded himself with. I like what he has done for the development system. I like the fact he has increased the scope of prospect acquisition. But overall I want him gone. If we are going to have a GM that is constantly going for the home run moves then bring on a guy like Burke. He might miss once in awhile. But at least he is going to knock a few out of the park and he is far better then average on the basic transaction stuff. Agree with most of your post. I personally don't feel Feaster has at this point the hockey knowledge to be a great GM. He has been relying too much on Weisbrod, Holditch, and Conroy. I think the majority of the problems above should be contributed to those 3 but ultimately it land on Feasters shoulders. Replacing Weisbrod and possibly Holditch would be a start and wake up call for the whole organization. If Feaster can't pull the plug on one or both; then we need to find a GM that will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tincup1 Posted July 3, 2013 Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 Let's face it, the problems with this team go above the GM. Before they even consider a new GM, KK and ownership need to get themselves out of the hockey ops. It made me sick to my stomach seeing KK huddled with Feaster and Weisbrod at the draft table on Sunday. I'm probably being a bit harsh but I think King is too hands on when it comes to the on ice product. It also bothered me when KK said they are looking for bench strength when asked about Shanny. Not bench strength Ken, new leadership with autonomy is what's needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKFlamer Posted July 3, 2013 Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 Feaster is starting to look like a poor GM. I'm not prepared to write him off just yet but I don't think we can look at any of his trades, acquisitions or draft picks and say he's done a good job. Likewise, we can't say he's done a terrible job either. It all seems to be a case of 'not quite as good as we had hoped' on everything. The problem we have now is we are a bad team, probably the worst in the league, and that success isn't something we can expect, so how do you fire feaster for failing? If I owned the team I would be looking for Feaster to present a solid plan and with set steps along the way and if he didnt start to deliver at each stage, boot him out. He has to start showing successes in bringing in the right players who can significantly improve the team, not mediocre players who don't necessarily make us work. Sound bites about 'getting bigger' are garbage and are not whats needed. Actions and Results, not sound bites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnittotheground Posted July 3, 2013 Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 Everyone has to remember the state of the franchise when he took over. Dutter left this team in a mess. Feaster has done a good job of getting the team younger, moving NTC/NMC contracts and drafting some good prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted July 3, 2013 Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 There are guys out there. We missed out big time on getting Jim Nill for example. You just have to be willing to look to see who is available. If all else fails I would take Burke over Feaster as well. I'd like Paul Fenton out of Nashville. 8 years as Director of Player Personnel (a say in drafting guys like Weber & Suter.) 7 as assistant to Poile & is the GM of the Milwaukee Admirals. Impressive resume IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted July 3, 2013 Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 I vote for Naheed Nenshi. He'll get us out of this mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted July 3, 2013 Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 I'd like Paul Fenton out of Nashville. 8 years as Director of Player Personnel (a say in drafting guys like Weber & Suter.) 7 as assistant to Poile & is the GM of the Milwaukee Admirals. Impressive resume IMO. I like Fenton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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