PokernHockey Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 I am so sick of narrow minded posts like this people who don't adhere to my narrow minded view. Jokinen was one of the few bright spots for the Flames the last 2 years. Good teams move out the problem players, not the ones playing well. That is how you make your team better. Going a new direction for the sake of changing direction is not a good move. Good teams also make moves with upgrades in mind. So the Flames let their top center, a 60 point, 2-way center walk as a free agent. Their solution(s)/option(s) to replacing that player are: - A 30 year old winger who has never taken a regular shift as a centerman in the NHL (Cammalleri)- Last year didn't exist when he was playing center eh? - A 26 year old rookie who has never played a pro game in North America (Cervenka) - A 23 year old center that is good defensively but is less offensive than children's music (Backlund) - A 28 year old center than is coming off the worst statistical season of his career (Stajan) - But I thought that all he needed was top 6 minutes and then he is a stud? I'm sure I can find quotes if you forgotten what you have said already - A 28 year old winger who has never taken a regular shift as a centerman in the NHL (Hudler) How anyone thinks these are better options than retaining Jokinen is beyond me. Sure its a new direction, but its pretty clear that direction is backwards. I fixed the spelling mistake in your first sentence for you bud. I don't think anyone has said that alone any one pickup is better, I feel like most of the arguments why letting him go is not the end of the world is that a ) our center position didn't do much with him, so change may not be good, but it may also not be bad. B ) perhaps the sum of the parts is better then the individual pieces The only constant in your attacks against all those players is their age. Perhaps noting that Joker is at the age that he is on the downswing of his career and was looking for a retirement contract with money and term in many of the reports (at least from what I heard) also may have had something to do with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrippinVdUb Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 but but but its time for a change cervenka lit up the khl so he will get 50+ points in the NHL backlund is going to break out cammalleri is just as good as jokinen blah blah blah blah blah blah is right, we havent had a #1c in years, I was more upset about loosing Langkow then I ever will be about Joker, being a vetran player isnt good enough, this guy hasnt won anything anywhere and Im am pumped that hes gone. When we first got Oli I was probably more excited then anyone but how fast that feeling wore off when it became obviously clear that he was not the answer. We have done nothing but fall further and and further into obscurity in the NHL since he joined the flames, kinda like the Panthers, kings, and Islanders all did before us. Even the Rangers missed the playoffs (with the game and there lives resting on his stick) after acquiring him. If you want to sit around and cry over his loss have at it but dont try and rip my opinion apart, fact is every team he has played on turned out better with out him! I dont like the idea of moving players around and playing them out of there natural position any more then the rest of the people on here, but ask me if I would take Oli or Cammy, and I will take Cammy every time, at least he brings a fire to the game and a desire to win! P.S. the only post season hockey Joker has played was in the season he was traded to Calgary, riding off the success Cammy and Iggy had on our top line WITHOUT a #1c! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrippinVdUb Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 There's always McDonald's. dont forget the waffles! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool17 Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 blah blah blah is right, we havent had a #1c in years, I was more upset about loosing Langkow then I ever will be about Joker, being a vetran player isnt good enough, this guy hasnt won anything anywhere and Im am pumped that hes gone. When we first got Oli I was probably more excited then anyone but how fast that feeling wore off when it became obviously clear that he was not the answer. We have done nothing but fall further and and further into obscurity in the NHL since he joined the flames, kinda like the Panthers, kings, and Islanders all did before us. Even the Rangers missed the playoffs (with the game and there lives resting on his stick) after acquiring him. If you want to sit around and cry over his loss have at it but dont try and rip my opinion apart, fact is every team he has played on turned out better with out him! I dont like the idea of moving players around and playing them out of there natural position any more then the rest of the people on here, but ask me if I would take Oli or Cammy, and I will take Cammy every time, at least he brings a fire to the game and a desire to win! P.S. the only post season hockey Joker has played was in the season he was traded to Calgary, riding off the success Cammy and Iggy had on our top line WITHOUT a #1c! Well said. +1 I fixed the spelling mistake in your first sentence for you bud. I don't think anyone has said that alone any one pickup is better, I feel like most of the arguments why letting him go is not the end of the world is that a ) our center position didn't do much with him, so change may not be good, but it may also not be bad. B ) perhaps the sum of the parts is better then the individual pieces The only constant in your attacks against all those players is their age. Perhaps noting that Joker is at the age that he is on the downswing of his career and was looking for a retirement contract with money and term in many of the reports (at least from what I heard) also may have had something to do with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 dont forget the waffles! There's a Smitty's on Meadowwood that makes great pancakes & waffles. __________________________ In case you didn't know Joker is wearing #12 here (presumably in tribute). I'm thinking of buying/ordering that tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 There's a Smitty's on Meadowwood that makes great pancakes & waffles. __________________________ In case you didn't know Joker is wearing #12 here (presumably in tribute). I'm thinking of buying/ordering that tomorrow. Is there a really good burger joint? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 Is there a really good burger joint? He'll love George's. I had the 4 patty burger & dang near had to back my car over that juicy burger to flatten it so I could take a bite. (Their subs are dang good too.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 Hahaha that is pretty awesome. I gotta see if I can implement that in everyday conversation..... For the record the drinking game was an ongoing joke about how much Jokinen over handled the puck and, and they ate definitly not alchoholics. It was satirical. Jokinen was a good player, but he was not the difference maker in a playoff vs. not playoff team. He himself is PROOF that you can train a player to player better defensively, you can coach a player to be more physical and buy into a system. He wasn't a standout in the face off dot, he wasnt Great fit. And if we are going to settle for mediocrity we dont deserve to make playoffs. The difference between Jokinen and Cervenka, Cammy Hudler etc is age, potential ceiling and the very REAL possibility they could turn out AS good as Joker. As always I agree we should've kept him. It would've been nicer to stack our hands before discarding players but it's not tht simple, and we don't know what went on between Joker and Feaster. We can spicy orange duck (:-D) all day about it but it's not going to change anything an every GM makes mistakes. It really is time to move on, and rather than focus on negative, suggest what moves can make us better. "you can't keep living in the past and looking backwards if you expect to survive in the future" "great risks equal great rewards. A ship at dock is usually safe but that is not what a ship is meant for" You don't seem to understand that Joker was only mediocre at playing 1C, something he was not really suited for. He was our top scorer for most of the season and his points will be tough to replace from the center position. He excelled at 2C and his 2 way play, which proves the shortcomings of your argument. Can you actually blame him when he is asked to play over his true abilities? He did fairly well at it surpassing the production of some true #1C's like Ryan Getzlaf, Jonathan Toews, Paul Stastny, Ryan Kesler, and Mike Richards to name a few. If 19th overall among centers is your idea of "settle for mediocrity" then bring it on please, just play him at #2C where he belongs. Instead now we have a maybe #2C who has never played a game in the NHL and whos natural position is Wing. We still don't have a true #1C. I know some are saying Cammy played it a few games last year, but that was because of injuries and to fill in. Right now we are weaker down the middle and there is big doubt that the replacements can step up to the plate. So we are left with a less than mediocre bunch of centers most of whom are more suited for 3-4 line duties and some people are happy because it is change. Sorry but that does not cut it in the top tier of professional sports. The only reason I have not called Feaster a complete idiot about this situation, is because he left us with the impression that he would be dealing to fix that weakness. He hasn't done any dealing and he hasn't got a lot of room to work with anymore unless cap goes out to compensate. Personally I think he is hoping that the present bunch will do well enough for a season or two, until some of our drafts(ie: Max Reinhart) work their way up to the big club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CastleMania Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 Personally I think he is hoping that the present bunch will do well enough for a season or two, until some of our drafts(ie: Max Reinhart) work their way up to the big club. Funny you should say this because I think you're probably right. Feaster is trying to pull a fast one on the fan base. He's adamant that this team is not rebuilding, but yet we really haven't made any great strides towards becoming a contender. I think what is actually being done is Feaster is saying we're moving in this direction, while he is quietly trying to go the other way. The problem with this strategy is that by trying to move in two different directions you just get stuck in the middle. I'm one of those fans who doesn't want to see a rebuild, but what I want to see even less is a team that is just standing pat hoping that a mediocre team will make a push. Just pick one direction and head that way! I could be wrong. We should know in a couple seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 Personally I think he is hoping that the present bunch will do well enough for a season or two, until some of our drafts(ie: Max Reinhart) work their way up to the big club. Well said Deeds... I also agreed with your assessment on Olli and have made similar comments myself... Funny you should say this because I think you're probably right. Feaster is trying to pull a fast one on the fan base. He's adamant that this team is not rebuilding, but yet we really haven't made any great strides towards becoming a contender. Feaster fooled me once, and it ain't happening again... I like some of the moves he has made, but not all... After letting our best center walk for nothing, and if he fails to bring in a proven center before the start of the season, as far as I am concerned that could be the start of the tipping point for many fans patience... I could be wrong. We should know in a couple seasons. I think we the writing might be on the wall long before that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 I think we the writing might be on the wall long before that... That is a really interesting thought Carty and deserves a thread on its own. How long will the Flames Fans be willing to let Feaster run the hockey club? I think some fans are willing to give him a lot longer than you think because of the future they are being sold.(man that sounds a lot like the Oilers kool-aid to me) Which brings up some thoughts to ponder: 1. It will be longer if nothing else happens than Sven turns to be our standout rookie. I think the Flames Fans are so starved for someone/something to cheer about that they will forgive the lack of top centers or goaltender replacements progression short term. 2. Will Feaster ever get to see how well Mark Jankowski does when he actually is of maturity to play in the NHL for us? 3. Regardless of the performance of your rookies , will you start crying for heads if we fail to reach the playoffs this season? Feaster himself has said failing to make the playoffs is unacceptable. Is his standard your standard or are you letting him pick your performance level for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
successfulblackman Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 I fixed the spelling mistake in your first sentence for you bud. I don't think anyone has said that alone any one pickup is better, I feel like most of the arguments why letting him go is not the end of the world is that a ) our center position didn't do much with him, so change may not be good, but it may also not be bad. B ) perhaps the sum of the parts is better then the individual pieces The only constant in your attacks against all those players is their age. Perhaps noting that Joker is at the age that he is on the downswing of his career and was looking for a retirement contract with money and term in many of the reports (at least from what I heard) also may have had something to do with it? Wow Another person who caught on to ring a ding dong's narrow minded views. welcome to the club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool17 Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 You don't seem to understand that Joker was only mediocre at playing 1C, something he was not really suited for. He was our top scorer for most of the season and his points will be tough to replace from the center position. He excelled at 2C and his 2 way play, which proves the shortcomings of your argument. Can you actually blame him when he is asked to play over his true abilities? He did fairly well at it surpassing the production of some true #1C's like Ryan Getzlaf, Jonathan Toews, Paul Stastny, Ryan Kesler, and Mike Richards to name a few. If 19th overall among centers is your idea of "settle for mediocrity" then bring it on please, just play him at #2C where he belongs. Instead now we have a maybe #2C who has never played a game in the NHL and whos natural position is Wing. We still don't have a true #1C. I know some are saying Cammy played it a few games last year, but that was because of injuries and to fill in. Right now we are weaker down the middle and there is big doubt that the replacements can step up to the plate. So we are left with a less than mediocre bunch of centers most of whom are more suited for 3-4 line duties and some people are happy because it is change. Sorry but that does not cut it in the top tier of professional sports. The only reason I have not called Feaster a complete idiot about this situation, is because he left us with the impression that he would be dealing to fix that weakness. He hasn't done any dealing and he hasn't got a lot of room to work with anymore unless cap goes out to compensate. Personally I think he is hoping that the present bunch will do well enough for a season or two, until some of our drafts(ie: Max Reinhart) work their way up to the big club. No bud, you misunderstand me. We are actually on the exact same page as far as the Jokinen debate goes. I think we SHOULD have kept him at least on a short term basis and I hope Feaster has a plan in place. What I was saying was we DO need a change, and whether it was right or wrong to move Jokinen it is done. I want to remain competitive and at this point we are better with him than not. But I don't think we are at the point of panicking just yet, and there are good reasons to be cautiously optimistic and not wave our hands in the air and say we are done before we even begin and the sky is falling before we have even skated a single game or seen what the boys can do. If It were up to me I would've kept him at least until someone better was available. If that option was even possible(again we don't know what went on between Feaster and Jokinen) The mediocrity comment was about not making change. If we don't ever change anything when it wasn't working how can we expect a different outcome. Not toward Jokinen, he's a great guy and #2 C, but we need a number one. Now it forces us to do everything to obtain a #1 instead of saying, oh good enough and abusing that safety net. Or drafting better and hoping that what we have Will get us through till our prospects are ready(and again is we're having Jokinen would have been better option but hey, maybe Feaster isn't done yet, or Cammy may end up excelling) Again, I wish he were here especially at the cost he signed at, and i completely agree the change soley for the sale of change is a bad idea, but we can whine about past stuff forever. It's done. What is being a defeatist going to solve? It's easy to point out someone else's flaws, shortcomings and bad mistakes than it is to come up with anything original or ideas, solutions and do the job and have someone else tear you apart. Which is why sir, you have my respect. You put forth ideas and if you disagree with someone you state reason and fact and correct the mistakes instead of insulting people and being part of the cliche that misery loves company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool17 Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 Wow Another person who caught on to ring a ding dong's narrow minded views. welcome to the club +1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool17 Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 That is a really interesting thought Carty and deserves a thread on its own. How long will the Flames Fans be willing to let Feaster run the hockey club? I think some fans are willing to give him a lot longer than you think because of the future they are being sold.(man that sounds a lot like the Oilers kool-aid to me) Which brings up some thoughts to ponder: 1. It will be longer if nothing else happens than Sven turns to be our standout rookie. I think the Flames Fans are so starved for someone/something to cheer about that they will forgive the lack of top centers or goaltender replacements progression short term. 2. Will Feaster ever get to see how well Mark Jankowski does when he actually is of maturity to play in the NHL for us? 3. Regardless of the performance of your rookies , will you start crying for heads if we fail to reach the playoffs this season? Feaster himself has said failing to make the playoffs is unacceptable. Is his standard your standard or are you letting him pick your performance level for you? You've both got a point. I think there needs to be performance improvement in the next two seasons or Feaster will be done regardless of rookie performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 No bud, you misunderstand me. We are actually on the exact same page as far as the Jokinen debate goes. I think we SHOULD have kept him at least on a short term basis and I hope Feaster has a plan in place. What I was saying was we DO need a change, and whether it was right or wrong to move Jokinen it is done. I want to remain competitive and at this point we are better with him than not. But I don't think we are at the point of panicking just yet, and there are good reasons to be cautiously optimistic and not wave our hands in the air and say we are done before we even begin and the sky is falling before we have even skated a single game or seen what the boys can do. If It were up to me I would've kept him at least until someone better was available. If that option was even possible(again we don't know what went on between Feaster and Jokinen) The mediocrity comment was about not making change. If we don't ever change anything when it wasn't working how can we expect a different outcome. Not toward Jokinen, he's a great guy and #2 C, but we need a number one. Now it forces us to do everything to obtain a #1 instead of saying, oh good enough and abusing that safety net. Or drafting better and hoping that what we have Will get us through till our prospects are ready(and again is we're having Jokinen would have been better option but hey, maybe Feaster isn't done yet, or Cammy may end up excelling) Again, I wish he were here especially at the cost he signed at, and i completely agree the change soley for the sale of change is a bad idea, but we can whine about past stuff forever. It's done. What is being a defeatist going to solve? It's easy to point out someone else's flaws, shortcomings and bad mistakes than it is to come up with anything original or ideas, solutions and do the job and have someone else tear you apart. Which is why sir, you have my respect. You put forth ideas and if you disagree with someone you state reason and fact and correct the mistakes instead of insulting people and being part of the cliche that misery loves company. I don't think Joker was the reason for our mediocrity, but some Fans are using him as an excuse for our results. If he is the reason, then we also have to point fingers at anyone below him who did not produce at levels above their capabilities. I agree with you, we should have held on to him for a couple years, unless we actually had a #1C in the wings. We already did change things. Many got tired of our coaching and systems. Most here feel we will be a different team, even had we kept the exact same roster, just due to that change alone. I don't think we will be much better just maybe play more exciting hockey to watch. If the coaches can scrape a few more points out of our division and just get us into the playoffs and play a bit more exciting hockey is that good enough? Most posters here feel the rookies stepped up to the plate last season when asked to, yet only a few of those same rookies will get a full time slot again this year(IE: Horak, Byron, Carson) Sven is about the only one who will get a top 6 shot this season. I don't see Brodie as a Top 4 D answer yet, but he may get some extra 2nd PP unit ice time and a full season up with the Flames.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool17 Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 I don't think Joker was the reason for our mediocrity, but some Fans are using him as an excuse for our results. If he is the reason, then we also have to point fingers at anyone below him who did not produce at levels above their capabilities. I agree with you, we should have held on to him for a couple years, unless we actually had a #1C in the wings. We already did change things. Many got tired of our coaching and systems. Most here feel we will be a different team, even had we kept the exact same roster, just due to that change alone. I don't think we will be much better just maybe play more exciting hockey to watch. If the coaches can scrape a few more points out of our division and just get us into the playoffs and play a bit more exciting hockey is that good enough? Most posters here feel the rookies stepped up to the plate last season when asked to, yet only a few of those same rookies will get a full time slot again this year(IE: Horak, Byron, Carson) Sven is about the only one who will get a top 6 shot this season. I don't see Brodie as a Top 4 D answer yet, but he may get some extra 2nd PP unit ice time and a full season up with the Flames.. I agree that coaching was a MASSIVE problem last year and we will benefit largely from Heartleys emphasis on hi tempo, system and work ethic. I think Joker would have done well under Heartley but it is also a reason I think Cammy will thrive and is the best chance for Backs and Stajan to improve as well. I can see Cammy breaking 70+ points this year and Stajan returning to form. Glencross could break 50pts. With Cervenka a big question mark it would've been nice to have Joker, but of he ends up being 50-60 pts, Feaster and Hartley will look like a geniuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 With Cervenka a big question mark it would've been nice to have Joker, but of he ends up being 50-60 pts, Feaster and Hartley will look like a geniuses. Still, even If Cervenka accomplishes the hoped for 50 - 60 points, we still have to admit that Joker got 61 last year, and that was on a hurting team... While I think Cervenka was one of Feasters better moves, it would have been nice to have Joker back on the same 2 year contract that he has with the Jets... That would reduce the gamble we are taking at center now significantly... When your best center accepts a 2 year contract at 4.5 mil a year elsewhere, you do not let him walk, especially for no return, unless you have a better proven center on your team already... Feaster has quite a ways to go yet before he can be called a genius... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 Still, even If Cervenka accomplishes the hoped for 50 - 60 points, we still have to admit that Joker got 61 last year, and that was on a hurting team... While I think Cervenka was one of Feasters better moves, it would have been nice to have Joker back on the same 2 year contract that he has with the Jets... That would reduce the gamble we are taking at center now significantly... When your best center accepts a 2 year contract at 4.5 mil a year elsewhere, you do not let him walk, especially for no return, unless you have a better proven center on your team already... Feaster has quite a ways to go yet before he can be called a genius... Honestly IMO feaster is on my hot seat if the flames have a repeat of last season. I disagree with most in that I don't like the way he has built the team and the process he has gone through. I like some of what he has done but overal he is still falling short IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WILLDABEAST Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 Honestly IMO feaster is on my hot seat if the flames have a repeat of last season. I disagree with most in that I don't like the way he has built the team and the process he has gone through. I like some of what he has done but overal he is still falling short IMO. Maybe... I can see that... I think its hard to judge him because its hard to say what he is aiming at doing with his moves... The more i read these arguments the more my gut says we should have kept jokinen... However i wonder how that would fit with our current cap sitaution... Reality is it might have prevented us from changing faces which i think was the goal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Maybe... I can see that... I think its hard to judge him because its hard to say what he is aiming at doing with his moves... The more i read these arguments the more my gut says we should have kept jokinen... However i wonder how that would fit with our current cap sitaution... Reality is it might have prevented us from changing faces which i think was the goal Making change for the sake of making change without a better substitution in place is a fools gamble... That includes changing faces on the roster... If Feaster does not produce a better proven center by acquisition prior to the beginning of the season, I really think he is starting to stretch his neck over the line... Reality is, you are right, it is difficult to say where Feaster is aiming at with his moves... He says one thing in that the team is looking to contend and not rebuild, but some of his moves, or lack thereof, do not seem to put the team in the best position to minimize risk at a key position... Feaster has to: Solidify the center position, we need to bring one in... Hopefully a #1, but even a good proven #2 that has reasonable skill on face offs... Add a top 4 D, preferably top 2. Consider acquiring another backup goaltender if Irving is not signed soon, perhaps even otherwise... Long story short, I think Ramo could be a part of the future. If Feaster accomplishes these things, then heck yeah, I'll even be the one to start the thread that acknowledges Feaster is indeed a genius... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis23 Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 aaaaaaaaaah... all of this discussion........ Why the hell did we let Jokinen go? Feaster shot himself in the foot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsp393 Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 aaaaaaaaaah... all of this discussion........ Why the hell did we let Jokinen go? Feaster shot himself in the foot. He underperformed two of the last three years and we under performed all three. Regardless of who's fault big changes were needed and he was the scapegoat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobieit Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 You've both got a point. I think there needs to be performance improvement in the next two seasons or Feaster will be done regardless of rookie performance. Feaster has only been GM for only 2.5 years. That's only 2 drafts, both turned out far better than previous ones. When last have we had a couple of prospects to be proud of and excited about? Added to that he has only had 2 offseasons, 1 where he had his back against the wall cap wise and had barely any players turning ufa. Not only did he trade an aging Reggie to salvage some return before he got to old. Along with that he got this team out of cap trouble so he could add some talent at the deadline. This is only his second offseason and because he has failed to turn this team into a contender this fast means he is on the hot seat? We fail to remember the state of the team before Feaster took over. We were old and slowly deteriorating, now we have young talent who are given a shot to make the big club. How much can a guy do in a short amount of time, what does everyone expect? Can't overnight become a contender it takes time! IMO Feaster has done what is in his control to do, acquiring a number one center isn't exactly a walk in the park since other teams don't want to trade their number 1 unless it is for a overpayment. With jokers contract it would mean Sven would not have a chance to play, or we don't get Cervenka, or we don't sign Hudler, or we don't get Wideman. Every says we need to get younger, so we insert Sven, Cervenka and Hudler. We all want a better D, Wideman is an upgrade. Yet some would rather have an older #2 center instead of one of those peices. Common Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davis1891 Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 He underperformed two of the last three years and we under performed all three. Regardless of who's fault big changes were needed and he was the scapegoat. Unless I've missed something, do we really know what happened between Jokinen and management? Maybe he wanted more then what he settled on with the jets. If that's the case, then I'd've probably not wanted him back either--- and I've always liked Jokinen. If not... Then yeah, mismanagement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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