DirtyDeeds Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 You still see it. Oiler Boards still claiming we need to tear it down because our players are aging and "Our Cupboards are bare". Even our own forums fans/posters saying our "Cupboards are bare". I can now say "You must be thinking of some other team, or of the Flames a few years back". WHL: 5 players in the top 30. No other team is even close. Buffalo has 2. Leafs has 2 but neither above 20 spot. We have none in the OHL or QMJHL's top 30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 I have mixed feellings on this. I agreed a lot more before we handed Patrick Holland over and threw a 2nd rounder in to boot. Ahem....looking past that...yes, we've got something going on in the cupboards. Baertschi should be ranked higher on that list, imho. and Edmonton...whoever you want to blame for it, they've already injured all their star players for the next decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Tehnically 4 given they lost Holland, but that's a technicality. Cupboards are not bare, they are just bare to everyone that doesn't follow the Flames closely or only puts value on high end prospects. If you want to talk high end prospects, yup it's bare. Not alot of top 6 forward or top 3 dman but they are high on depth and have been for a while and I think you are seeing that with irving, Bouma, Nemisz, Brodie etc all coming up and being able to play just not star. So dpeneds on your critera. I happen to think the Flames have a decent prospect pool and I personally would rank them about 15-20 in the league because I think they are deeper in NHL calibre talent than most people give them credit for, but you can't deny they are shot on the high end talent that really gets your prospect pool ranked. Couple really good drafts could fix that though, and it's part of the reason I'm such in favor of acquring and hording picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted January 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Tehnically 4 given they lost Holland, but that's a technicality. Cupboards are not bare, they are just bare to everyone that doesn't follow the Flames closely or only puts value on high end prospects. If you want to talk high end prospects, yup it's bare. Not alot of top 6 forward or top 3 dman but they are high on depth and have been for a while and I think you are seeing that with irving, Bouma, Nemisz, Brodie etc all coming up and being able to play just not star. So dpeneds on your critera. I happen to think the Flames have a decent prospect pool and I personally would rank them about 15-20 in the league because I think they are deeper in NHL calibre talent than most people give them credit for, but you can't deny they are shot on the high end talent that really gets your prospect pool ranked. Couple really good drafts could fix that though, and it's part of the reason I'm such in favor of acquring and hording picks. I wonder why we have no prospects listed in either the OHL or QMJHL? Is it because we don't scout them as much, or are they a tad younger Cross? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ring-a-ding-dong-dandy Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 I wonder why we have no prospects listed in either the OHL or QMJHL? Is it because we don't scout them as much, or are they a tad younger Cross? its because we currently have no OHL or QMJHL prospects. the last of our prospects from those 2 leagues were Brodie and Nemisz. I honestly don't recall the last time we had a QMJHL prospect since Matthew Lombardi.For our non AHL prospects we currently have 6 in the WHL (Baertschi, Wotherspoon, Reinhart, Leach, Ferland and Brossoit), 4 in the NCAA (Gaudreau, Arnold, Ramage and Larson), 1 in SM-liiga (Granlund) and albeit an older prospect, 1 in the KHL (Rammo) edit - I was wrong the last QMJHL player we drafted was Adam Pardy. But between Pardy and Lombardi the only other Q draftee was some goon named Thomas Bellemare (he had 474 PIM in 67 games in his draft year!!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 its because we currently have no OHL or QMJHL prospects. the last of our prospects from those 2 leagues were Brodie and Nemisz. I honestly don't recall the last time we had a QMJHL prospect since Matthew Lombardi. For our non AHL prospects we currently have 6 in the WHL (Baertschi, Wotherspoon, Reinhart, Leach, Ferland and Brossoit), 4 in the NCAA (Gaudreau, Arnold, Ramage and Larson), 1 in SM-liiga (Granlund) and albeit an older prospect, 1 in the KHL (Rammo) edit - I was wrong the last QMJHL player we drafted was Adam Pardy. But between Pardy and Lombardi the only other Q draftee was some goon named Thomas Bellemare (he had 474 PIM in 67 games in his draft year!!!) Not to nitpick but the last QMJHL player Calgary drafted was Hugo Carpentier in 2006. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ring-a-ding-dong-dandy Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Not to nitpick but the last QMJHL player Calgary drafted was Hugo Carpentier in 2006. oops totally missed him i wish we would have missed him in the draft too, talk about a complete bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 I wonder why we have no prospects listed in either the OHL or QMJHL? Is it because we don't scout them as much, or are they a tad younger Cross? It's funny, becuase everyone likes to talk about how the Flames are "western based" and the link to the WHL, but IMO they scout the OHL much better than they do the WHL. Tom Webster, the Flames best scout IMO, is extremely good at finding guys. Brodie, Nemisz, Giordano, Breen and Prust are all OHL guys and I konw Webster is known as their OHL guy reponsible for that area. Flames actually "miss" in the WHL more than they do in the OHL and in fact I think they actually need to take a hard look at their wester scounts becasue their record drafting out ot the WHL isn't pretty. I think the reason they don't draft out of the Q is because the Q is not producing alot of players the Flames are after. I'm not a big fan of the Q overal I find the depth isn't very good, but mainly the Q isn't known to be a physical, pro style league and that's the player that the Flames have been after in recent years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
successfulblackman Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 It's funny, becuase everyone likes to talk about how the Flames are "western based" and the link to the WHL, but IMO they scout the OHL much better than they do the WHL. Tom Webster, the Flames best scout IMO, is extremely good at finding guys. Brodie, Nemisz, Giordano, Breen and Prust are all OHL guys and I konw Webster is known as their OHL guy reponsible for that area. Flames actually "miss" in the WHL more than they do in the OHL and in fact I think they actually need to take a hard look at their wester scounts becasue their record drafting out ot the WHL isn't pretty. I think the reason they don't draft out of the Q is because the Q is not producing alot of players the Flames are after. I'm not a big fan of the Q overal I find the depth isn't very good, but mainly the Q isn't known to be a physical, pro style league and that's the player that the Flames have been after in recent years. IMO the whl is under rated big time. They come out with some of the worlds best defense men Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crzydrvr Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 IMO the whl is under rated big time. They come out with some of the worlds best defense men So do the OHL. And the QMJHL. The WHL is not known for its defensemen, it's noted for its NHL style of play. I wouldn't say we come out with more top-tier defenders than any other league in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 You can add Feaster and Weisbrod to the list of people that think the Flames still have a lot of work in the prospect department. Both have addressed that the Flames still have a need to focus on improving their pool. We drafted poorly for a decade. Things have improved over the past few seasons but we lacked a top 60 pick in 2010 and we lost our only top 60 pick (Erixon) in 2009. Things are heading in the right direction but I certainly wouldn't be taking pot shots at the Oiler's or any other teams prospects pools. Weisbrod said it himself in the fan forum. The type of players that Calgary has been drafting, although decent players, are the easiest types of players to acquire outside of the draft. That is a great description of the Flames prospect pool. Its also part of the reason that (except Moss) the Flames don't have any of their drafted players on the roster that have played 200 games in the NHL. In fact, Backlund is the only Flames drafted player to have more then a season with the Flames. Weisbrod was also clear that players like Granlund still have a long ways to go to prove that they are NHL players. We have to remember they are prospects. Many won't ever be NHL players. Especially those guys drafted in the later rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 You can add Feaster and Weisbrod to the list of people that think the Flames still have a lot of work in the prospect department. cough cough....2nd round picks...ahem... But...yes, the drafting has been Much better. which takes me back to...why are we handing out our picks again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wally31 Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 cough cough....2nd round picks...ahem... But...yes, the drafting has been Much better. which takes me back to...why are we handing out our picks again? Ownership wants to win, and win now. Feaster keeps saying that. I wonder what Feaster would do if it was 100% his call (in all areas?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mssandhu Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 This doesn't have anything to do with the current topic but as of Febuary 3rd Sven has dropped to 10th probably because of his injury though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ring-a-ding-dong-dandy Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 This doesn't have anything to do with the current topic but as of Febuary 3rd Sven has dropped to 10th probably because of his injury though. why are you bringing up feb. 3rd on feb. 29th? i don't follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mssandhu Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 Sorry if I wasn't clear at the beginning of the forum dirtydeeds posted the power rankings of WHL players in which Sven was 4th but TSNs latests power rankings (done on Feb 3rd) show he has dropped to the 10th spot in the power rankings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ring-a-ding-dong-dandy Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 Sorry if I wasn't clear at the beginning of the forum dirtydeeds posted the power rankings of WHL players in which Sven was 4th but TSNs latests power rankings (done on Feb 3rd) show he has dropped to the 10th spot in the power rankings power rankings are meaningless, they are for no more than to help people with hockey pools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geos Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 Cupboards are not bare, they are just bare to everyone that doesn't follow the Flames closely or only puts value on high end prospects. If you want to talk high end prospects, yup it's bare. Not alot of top 6 forward or top 3 dman but they are high on depth and have been for a while and I think you are seeing that with irving, Bouma, Nemisz, Brodie etc all coming up and being able to play just not star. Then the cupboards are bare IMO. Any GM can sign a bottom 6 forward or a bottom 3 d-man in free agency or easily acquire one cheap in a trade. We have nothing that really is special other than Baertschi. Any other prospect is really, at best, someone we could easily fill with a low profile FA signing. That's the problem. The only prospects that are meaningful, IMO, are ones with really high ceilings. Anything else is just meh. Other than Baertschi, who is really someone that we couldn't easily fill their future role with an easy FA signing? No one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyro Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 Then the cupboards are bare IMO. Any GM can sign a bottom 6 forward or a bottom 3 d-man in free agency or easily acquire one cheap in a trade. We have nothing that really is special other than Baertschi. Any other prospect is really, at best, someone we could easily fill with a low profile FA signing. That's the problem. The only prospects that are meaningful, IMO, are ones with really high ceilings. Anything else is just meh. Other than Baertschi, who is really someone that we couldn't easily fill their future role with an easy FA signing? No one. I find this really shortsighted. How many teams can you honestly say have their cupboards stacked with high end prospects besides maybe St. Louis. It's unfair how little credit you are willing to give to our prospects. Irving could very well end up being a starting goaltender, reinhart could be a very effective playmaking center. Heck Ramage could be a top pairing dman some day, but you don't know. You may not be excited about our prospects because truthfully they project to be 3rd/ 4th line guys or 4/5/6 dmen but these roles are important on a team as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali-iggy Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 i think Reinhart, Baertschi, Granlund, Ramage, Wootherspoon, Leach and arnold will be nhlers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 Then the cupboards are bare IMO. Any GM can sign a bottom 6 forward or a bottom 3 d-man in free agency or easily acquire one cheap in a trade. We have nothing that really is special other than Baertschi. Any other prospect is really, at best, someone we could easily fill with a low profile FA signing. That's the problem. The only prospects that are meaningful, IMO, are ones with really high ceilings. Anything else is just meh. Other than Baertschi, who is really someone that we couldn't easily fill their future role with an easy FA signing? No one. Could not disagree more, and to put it bluntely this is flat out wrong. STeve Montador, 5/6 dman got 2.3 million in FA to play a role similar to what Brodie or someone like Ramage could come in do for less than half of that. Colby Armstrong cost the Leafs 3 million bucks to be a player ismlar to what Nemisz could be in the NHL. To bring it closer to home, look at what the Flames went rthough tryhing to fill in their 3/4 lines. Jeff Frisen, at 1.4 million, Primeau signed multi year at 1.2, Warrener at 2.5, Steve Staois brought in at 2.3 mill and a 3rd round pick, a 2nd round pick to bring in Conroy,Signing guys at over 1.2 like Zyuzin and Erikson, 3rd round pick for David Hale, all assets and money that could have been saved had the Flames had some players that could have come in and played. Not to mention guys like Yelle, Nilson, Conroy, Warrenr that had to be play longer than they should and became in effective. Relying on FA and trades to fill out your bottom lines means you overpay, simple as that. Look at contracts like Upshall, Joel Ward, Bergenheim, Marco Sturm, Max Talbot,Goc, Chad Larose, heck even Adam Pardy. Those are all players that signed big deals and all players that had they have been Flames the Flames can replace all of them in the next 2 season with the prospects they have. That's alot of savings, never mind the fact that you don' tconstantly have to be flipping over your 3rd/4th lines and getting that chemistry all restarted and gtting guys that constantly need to adjust. Absolutely ridiculous to say that prospect are irrelvant, depth is never irrelevant, period. Now if your saying that the difference between good/great teams is the amount of top 6 prosepcts then I agree. I'm not downplaying the need for top 6 it's just ridiculous that propsects that will play in the NHL are not worth talking about. I didn't even talk about what it allows you to do via the trade route if you have NHL calibre prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_worthy Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 I am in complete agreement with Cross. You simply cannot afford to round out the bottom half of your team with free agents - it's too expensive. Free agency is for filling in the final pieces - you know you're going to overpay, but if you have a specific need, you go get it. In order to be competitive, a team has to have several ELCs and/or 2nd-contract guys contributing, because these are the more economical players. As an organization, you need a regular supply of young depth to fill out the roster cheaply. Obviously, you also need high-end prospects, and on that front, we all agree that the Flames need to improve. But that does not mean that you spend all your draft picks on high-risk players - you need 3rd and 4th liners too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Free agents are okay if signed at the right time, in the right way. Ie., Derek Smith. Tim Jackman. Guys who were overlooked. US College hockey players. In the spring/summer, there will be free agents available for cheap. Of course, we don't want to get into bidding wars with other teams for Veteran NHLer free agents. But younger, unproven free agents can actually be a huge advantage to the team and also help out the salary cap. So, I agree with geos that you can add value to the bottom of your team with free agents. However, I disagree that Baertschi is our only top prospect. I think that we have a number of other top prospects. Maybe not as sure-fire as Baertschi, but some will turn out. In the future...yes, I would like to see us go for broke on draft day. Draft players with high ceilings. If they don't work out, oh well. I think we did this with Granlund, and he is another wildcard which may never see the NHL or could end up being an NHL superstar. Bill Arnold has a wide range of possibilities as well. So do Irving and Ortio. I even think Horak and Byron have chances at greatness. Out of all the players I've mentioned, a couple of them will probably pan out. The rest won't, and that's okay. A Contender needs about 10 "Top" players on their team (first and second-line players). The other part is extending the value of these players. A team like Detroit will get well over 10 good years out of them. At that rate, they only need to draft one "Top" player every year (10 players every 10 years). They draft well enough to meet this need, and they extend most of the top players well past 10 years. So they win on both ends, and it shows. The Flames burn the candle from both ends. They can't seem to get 10 years out of their top players, except for a few exceptions (Iginla, Conroy, etc). Even if they could, they don't draft a top player each year. They draft a top player maybe once every two years. Combine those two problems, and you end up with our team. So, we have problems. But we're getting better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted March 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 Anyone know or seen our latest addition Brian_Connelly play yet? other than 16 games 6 assists with the Heat and a decent showing in the all-star game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ring-a-ding-dong-dandy Posted March 15, 2012 Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 Anyone know or seen our latest addition Brian_Connelly play yet? other than 16 games 6 assists with the Heat and a decent showing in the all-star game. all i know is he skates very well and has 6/7 upside according to most. i also believe he has been hurt recently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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