Oilers

[cross16]

Oilers are past the point of tanking. They are just legitimately this bad of a franchise.

[xstrike]

Oilers are past the point of tanking. They are just legitimately this bad of a franchise.

You hear Coach Todd? He was raging mad. Enough that Fan960 is going to censor it when the do a replay. I don't blame him.

[travel_dude]

You hear Coach Todd? He was raging mad. Enough that Fan960 is going to censor it when the do a replay. I don't blame him.

 

Posted this in GDT:

 

[Carty]

From: http://www.edmontonsun.com/2016/03/31/edmonton-oilers-least-popular-destination-among-nhlers-player-agent-poll

 

Edmonton Oilers least-popular destination among NHLers: player-agent poll

 

The Edmonton Oilers won an NHL poll.

Unfortunately.

For the second year in a row, a player agent poll by ESPN.com’s Craig Custance revealed that the Oilers are the team to which most NHLers don’t want to be traded.

Custance asked 10 general managers to submit the most common teams on their clients’ ‘no-trade’ list, and Edmonton won for the second year in a row, finishing ‘ahead’ of the Winnipeg Jets and the New York Islanders.

“I know things are changing, I know this is a great place to play, but it’s not surprising to hear the reports,” said Oilers centre Mark Letestu. “The climate, obviously people get scared right away, and there hasn’t been a lot of success here recently. There’s not really a huge driving reason for free agents to come this way. It’s on the guys in the room to change that. With wins and success comes guys wanting to play here.”

Connor McDavid and a new arena don’t seem to have as much sway around the league as the organization would have hoped.

“It helps to have Connor … but until we have success, that’s the biggest barometer for guys when they go into free agency,” said Letestu. “Especially older free agents, maybe the window is closing on that opportunity to win and you want to go to a winner. When you see a rebuild, it’s often difficult to get behind that because you don’t know how long it’s going to be.

“They want to play for winners and that’s what we have to be.”

[jjgallow]

I'm curious, do you all think McD will regret not pulling a Lindros or Edmonton winning his lottery year? Most top athletes are highly competitive. How long will he spend on an Oiler team that is everything but competitive?

 

Are RNH, Hall, Eberle, Yak, etc stunted (or worse) because they've lost for so long. I don't like losing when the games don't matter. To lose for years and years when the games could matter has got to have a mental toll.

 

I think McDavid will regret it, yeah.

 

Quebec wasn't exactly a great place to be then either, and I was pretty upset with Lindros.

 

But this, IMHO, is different.    The Oilers literally Consume top young talent, and destroy it.   It's even a Safety thing, with their track record of giving 18 year olds unsheltered minutes, and no direction.

 

Sure enough, McDavid gets injured on schedule.

 

I would not have thought any less of him.  Based on the safety record alone, let alone the success record.

[DirtyDeeds]

I think McDavid will regret it, yeah.

 

Quebec wasn't exactly a great place to be then either, and I was pretty upset with Lindros.

 

But this, IMHO, is different.    The Oilers literally Consume top young talent, and destroy it.   It's even a Safety thing, with their track record of giving 18 year olds unsheltered minutes, and no direction.

 

Sure enough, McDavid gets injured on schedule.

 

I would not have thought any less of him.  Based on the safety record alone, let alone the success record.

add to JJ's thoughts :

 

You also have to consider what effect missing all these playoffs will have on McD's career stats and earnings. I think it will definitely hurt how his legacy is looked upon after he finishes hockey.  

 

We all know how the effect of Iggy not getting a cup, has everyone looking at his total career now. Iggy had a number of playoff appearance too.

 

Oilers are 10 and counting, missed playoff seasons and setting new NHL records, for bottom dwelling.

[travel_dude]

add to JJ's thoughts :

 

You also have to consider what effect missing all these playoffs will have on McD's career stats and earnings. I think it will definitely hurt how his legacy is looked upon after he finishes hockey.  

 

We all know how the effect of Iggy not getting a cup, has everyone looking at his total career now. Iggy had a number of playoff appearance too.

 

Oilers are 10 and counting, missed playoff seasons and setting new NHL records, for bottom dwelling.

 

Two more years of ELC for him.  Then the big payday.  There is no reason to think that EDM will offer less than $80m over 8 years.  The way they throw money around for lower quality D-men (Ference, Nikitin, Sekera) and relatively unproven guys (Klefbom, Jultz, Davidson) shows a lack of planning long term.  Nurse, Lander, Maroon, Reinhart will all get big raises.  Unless they somehow trade Hall, Eberle and Nuge, they are screwed.  Trade, as in trade for youngins on ELC or cheap contracts. They will need to pay top dollars to a top 2 D-man.  They don't have any right now.

[xstrike]

Two more years of ELC for him.  Then the big payday.  There is no reason to think that EDM will offer less than $80m over 8 years.  The way they throw money around for lower quality D-men (Ference, Nikitin, Sekera) and relatively unproven guys (Klefbom, Jultz, Davidson) shows a lack of planning long term.  Nurse, Lander, Maroon, Reinhart will all get big raises.  Unless they somehow trade Hall, Eberle and Nuge, they are screwed.  Trade, as in trade for youngins on ELC or cheap contracts. They will need to pay top dollars to a top 2 D-man.  They don't have any right now.

Would it be at all possible for the Oilers not to be able to afford McD? I mean, I know they'd try to trade out salary, but other GMs look to throw the boat anchor and not a life preserver. If they run into cap trouble, I'm sure GMs would love for McD to be up for grabs. Unlikely, but... something to wonder about.

[travel_dude]

Would it be at all possible for the Oilers not to be able to afford McD? I mean, I know they'd try to trade out salary, but other GMs look to throw the boat anchor and not a life preserver. If they run into cap trouble, I'm sure GMs would love for McD to be up for grabs. Unlikely, but... something to wonder about.

 

They would ice a sub-standard team to keep him.  Does that mean he wants to sign there?  No.  But he wants to play hockey.  No leverage as a young player.  He can sign a bridge deal to take him to UFA status.  Or he can Drouin himself.  I doubt he is like that moron, though.  He seems like an honest player.

[tmac70]

For years we have all said the same thing, they really don't have anything. The battle cry is now remove it all and make it better. The removal of Ebs, Yak, Hall and RNH should happen this summer. Oiler faithful believe they have all these offensive stars but they are near the bottom in offensive stats.

 

Is there any one the Flames would be interested in and could obtain with what we have? The Oilers do not need draft picks they need already proven players especially D and they will need some forwards with the crap moving out.

 

So what are Hall, Eberle, RNH and Yak worth at current value?

[travel_dude]

For years we have all said the same thing, they really don't have anything. The battle cry is now remove it all and make it better. The removal of Ebs, Yak, Hall and RNH should happen this summer. Oiler faithful believe they have all these offensive stars but they are near the bottom in offensive stats.

 

Is there any one the Flames would be interested in and could obtain with what we have? The Oilers do not need draft picks they need already proven players especially D and they will need some forwards with the crap moving out.

 

So what are Hall, Eberle, RNH and Yak worth at current value?

 

That's really hard to say.  

 

Hall has the most value.  His one-way game only shows up in scoring.  I don't know if there is too much Oiler stink on him or whether he could be fixed.  That is the risk.  He's like a spoiled child at time; wants to win, but only if he gets to be "the man".  He would be the #2 LW on this team.  With that salary, we couldn't afford him to play that role this season.

Return:  They would likely get a package for him, including a 3/4 D-man and a top 9 player.  Maybe someone offers a top 2 D-man, but he would likely be an older one.

 

Nuge is an injury concern these days.  They decided to have him play more of a 200 foot game, but he doesn't have enough defensive instincts compared to Backlund.  He is a better offensive center than Backlund, though.

Return:  Tough to gauge interest.  Reported to be offered for Seth Jones, but turned down.  His salary is a hindrance.  

 

I probably undervalue the Oinklers too much, but how much are player from a 30th place team really worth.  If they were having bad years, that is one thing.  They are being called out by their coach, not just this year, but seemingly every year.  Of the big 4, I would only have interest in Hall or Eberle.  Eberle only because he is a RW and can score.  Hall because he would probably fit with Bennett as a speedy LW.  The cost to obtain is too much for the Flames.  The impact to the cap is too much for the Flames.  

[cross16]

I think the draft is gonig to determine who and what the oilers deals would/will look like. The OIlers "core" as it stands right now would likely be McDavid, Drasaitl, Hall, RNH, Eberle, Klefbom, Sekera and Nurse. I think everyone outside of the that they would gladly trade in the right deal, but thats the mix of guys that I think either the OIlers won't trade, or would prefer not to. HOw the drat lottery goes for them is going to play a huge factor in that process because if they get top 3, your are drafting someone who can play next year. Getting Laine/Pulljarvi makes an Eberle trade easier to swallow and getting Mathews opens up the potential of trading Draistal and RNH.

 

Problem right now is the only player who has really good value is Hall and maybe Draistl but those are two players they don't want to part with and for good reason IMO. I think the would want to trade RNH and Eberle but their values are limited. Both probably return you a decent nubmer 4ish dman and a pick/prosepct, or a good top6/top 9 forward but again they are going to have to come with a contract. I don't think teams are going to take RNH and Eberle without giving up contracts in return. so it limits how impressive a package you can actually get. 

[travel_dude]

I think the draft is gonig to determine who and what the oilers deals would/will look like. The OIlers "core" as it stands right now would likely be McDavid, Drasaitl, Hall, RNH, Eberle, Klefbom, Sekera and Nurse. I think everyone outside of the that they would gladly trade in the right deal, but thats the mix of guys that I think either the OIlers won't trade, or would prefer not to. HOw the drat lottery goes for them is going to play a huge factor in that process because if they get top 3, your are drafting someone who can play next year. Getting Laine/Pulljarvi makes an Eberle trade easier to swallow and getting Mathews opens up the potential of trading Draistal and RNH.

 

Problem right now is the only player who has really good value is Hall and maybe Draistl but those are two players they don't want to part with and for good reason IMO. I think the would want to trade RNH and Eberle but their values are limited. Both probably return you a decent nubmer 4ish dman and a pick/prosepct, or a good top6/top 9 forward but again they are going to have to come with a contract. I don't think teams are going to take RNH and Eberle without giving up contracts in return. so it limits how impressive a package you can actually get. 

 

You are right about the pick determining how they move forward.  Some feel that if they "won" 1st overall they would package it to Arizona for a top defenseman ++.  Maybe, but they are not getting OEL for that pick.

 

I think their core is a lot less than it used to be.  Watching Eberle or Hall bail on plays makes me wonder how much Chiapet sees them as part of the core.  Hall wanted to be, and was thought to be the next captain.  With McDavid, there is no chance that happens now.  Eberle has been identified (not in name) by the coach, as have Hall, as playing a lazy game.  If HNIC can figure out those comments, then Chiapet likely knows this as well.

 

So that leads me to believe that the core is McDavid, Draisaitl, Klefbom, and Nurse. 

[cross16]

I agree, thats why i say "Core" in quotations. I think ideally the plans was for that group of players to form the core but thats not going to be able to happen going forward. 

[jjgallow]

For years we have all said the same thing, they really don't have anything. The battle cry is now remove it all and make it better. The removal of Ebs, Yak, Hall and RNH should happen this summer. Oiler faithful believe they have all these offensive stars but they are near the bottom in offensive stats.

 

Is there any one the Flames would be interested in and could obtain with what we have? The Oilers do not need draft picks they need already proven players especially D and they will need some forwards with the crap moving out.

 

So what are Hall, Eberle, RNH and Yak worth at current value?

 

I think they still have value, just not here.

 

A team that's already winning, and wanting to get younger, might take a risk on them.   I don't see them getting incorporated into other rebuilding teams.  Could be wrong.

 

They would definitely need to be split up.  They are all damaged goods at this point.  All three.   And some of them may go on to have phenomenal hockey careers.   But I don't see that "group" ever making it.

 

What the Oilers need from us, would be a Giordano type player.    Flames fans wouldn't have it.  I would have it.  But....I wouldn't have any of those three.  Just not the right fit here, imho. 

 

The biggest problem with a flames/oilers trade, is that we share a lot of the same weaknesses, to Very different degrees.   We can't afford to give Edmonton the defense they need.   We don't have the goaltending to give them.   And our highest scorer won't solve their size problems.

[DirtyDeeds]

I think the draft is gonig to determine who and what the oilers deals would/will look like. The OIlers "core" as it stands right now would likely be McDavid, Drasaitl, Hall, RNH, Eberle, Klefbom, Sekera and Nurse. I think everyone outside of the that they would gladly trade in the right deal, but thats the mix of guys that I think either the OIlers won't trade, or would prefer not to. HOw the drat lottery goes for them is going to play a huge factor in that process because if they get top 3, your are drafting someone who can play next year. Getting Laine/Pulljarvi makes an Eberle trade easier to swallow and getting Mathews opens up the potential of trading Draistal and RNH.

 

Problem right now is the only player who has really good value is Hall and maybe Draistl but those are two players they don't want to part with and for good reason IMO. I think the would want to trade RNH and Eberle but their values are limited. Both probably return you a decent nubmer 4ish dman and a pick/prosepct, or a good top6/top 9 forward but again they are going to have to come with a contract. I don't think teams are going to take RNH and Eberle without giving up contracts in return. so it limits how impressive a package you can actually get. 

Without this years pick RNH is viewed by the fans as has to go. How can they afford to pay him 6/m per year for a 3rd line center? He has been replaced as 2nd line center by Drasaitl.

 

The fans are questioning Hall and mostly his leadership and the only ones who think he should stay are those who think so because he rooms with McD. There are a few who think he must go because he will bring back the best return.

 

No one up on OMB is defending Eberle anymore. They say he takes weeks off and has to be 1st one to go.

 

Klefborn gets a pass because he was injured. 

 

Nurse they think needs more NHL time despite his flaws. I don't think they see him as needing more farm time to develop.

[CheersMan]

The one thing we have learned about TM is that he sure knows how to rip his team in public, Bravo, Bravo!  I wonder though, does he know how to mentor, motive and teach his players how to play the game?  The product on the ice is his, maybe he should take ownership of it, instead of pointing the finger with blame all the time.

[DirtyDeeds]

The one thing we have learned about TM is that he sure knows how to rip his team in public, Bravo, Bravo!  I wonder though, does he know how to mentor, motive and teach his players how to play the game?  The product on the ice is his, maybe he should take ownership of it, instead of pointing the finger with blame all the time.

I don't think he realized what he was getting.

I think he figured his coaching would be enough to improve the team somewhat.

He might be trying to highlight the real problem for the GM and decisionmakers.

If those problem players are gone next season then what does it matter if he rips them now?

It could backfire though if you have to get something from a player who ends up returning next season after you ripped him.

 

Edit: If nothing else it will endear him to the fans. They are frustrated too and can relate to his frustrations he is being so vocal about. Instant association.

[travel_dude]

...

 

The fans are questioning Hall and mostly his leadership and the only ones who think he should stay are those who think so because he rooms with McD. Tehre are a few who think he must go because he will bring back the best return.

 

...

 

Nurse they think needs more NHL time despite his flaws. I don't think they see him as needing more farm time to develop.

 

I think the coach and GM have a slightly different view.  Hartley would (privately) describe him as a cookie monster.  A guy more intent on his stats that the team winning.  I think that Todd or Chia both see that.

 

Nurse was brought in too soon, at too high a level.  At best he is a 3rd pairing guy right now.  He makes too many rookie mistakes, but who is he supposed to learn from?  He needs at least a year in the AHL.  No point in ruining him now.  He's way too young with lots of potential.

 

 

The one thing we have learned about TM is that he sure knows how to rip his team in public, Bravo, Bravo!  I wonder though, does he know how to mentor, motive and teach his players how to play the game?  The product on the ice is his, maybe he should take ownership of it, instead of pointing the finger with blame all the time.

 

You can teach all you want, but the things he is teaching is not being done consistently.  That is his biggest complaint.  Some of these players he is talking about are vets, not 1st year kids.  McDavid makes as many mistakes as any rookie.  The difference is that he tends to learn from that.  He listens to the coach.

 

How many times do you have to tell a player that they are still responsible when they don't have the puck?  This isn't a draft year for these players.  If your 4th line is the only one that can play more than 55 seconds on a shift after almost a week off, then you have a problem.  If they can't get up for a BOA, what chance do they have against the Canucks?  Are they going to show up after the summer out of shape and lazy?  

[cross16]

The one thing we have learned about TM is that he sure knows how to rip his team in public, Bravo, Bravo!  I wonder though, does he know how to mentor, motive and teach his players how to play the game?  The product on the ice is his, maybe he should take ownership of it, instead of pointing the finger with blame all the time.

 

If you need to coach or motivate your players to show up and compete your problem is not the coach its the players.When you ahve the exact same issues through what 4 coaches now? Your problem isn't the coach.

[DirtyDeeds]

If you need to coach or motivate your players to show up and compete your problem is not the coach its the players.When you ahve the exact same issues through what 4 coaches now? Your problem isn't the coach.

This is going to put to test the old adage "You can't fire the whole team".

 

Considering the fact that most often the coach is the one who usually gets the boot in the end, then the methods and actions they take, will show us how serious the Oilers are about changing things.

 

I expect the Oilers won't be able to make all the wholesale changes in one or two seasons, which likely will cripple the efforts to make those needed changes.

[Flyerfan52]

This is going to put to test the old adage "You can't fire the whole team".

 

Considering the fact that most often the coach is the one who usually gets the boot in the end, then the methods and actions they take, will show us how serious the Oilers are about changing things.

 

I expect the Oilers won't be able to make all the wholesale changes in one or two seasons, which likely will cripple the efforts to make those needed changes.

In a normal organization Chia would have had year 1 to assess the players he inherited & see how they respond to having a GM & coach with track records & then given carte blanche to make changes as required (he was hired before McDavid was won{?}).

But, given the odd love affair between Katz & KLowe (why pick a spear carrier from the dynasty years as your idol?) there is likely more in play. Like how attached is Katz to all those 1st OAs his son got to hand jerseys to on the grand stage.

That is a messed up organization & Chia is probably in over his head if he tries to fix it.

[jjgallow]

I don't think he realized what he was getting.

I think he figured his coaching would be enough to improve the team somewhat.

 

That's really the only thing you can knock him for at this point.   I normally don't approve of coaches who call out their players, but Edmonton is an Exception.

 

Which, he should have known, before taking the job.   And if he didn't, that's about the only thing I can fault him for.  

[travel_dude]

In a normal organization Chia would have had year 1 to assess the players he inherited & see how they respond to having a GM & coach with track records & then given carte blanche to make changes as required (he was hired before McDavid was won{?}).

But, given the odd love affair between Katz & KLowe (why pick a spear carrier from the dynasty years as your idol?) there is likely more in play. Like how attached is Katz to all those 1st OAs his son got to hand jerseys to on the grand stage.

That is a messed up organization & Chia is probably in over his head if he tries to fix it.

 

You have to wonder what moves he will be allowed.  Bob Nicholson seems to have a say.  Katz seems to have a say.  Klowe and MacT still seem to be involved.  Messier seems to be in there somehow, as does Gretz.  It reminds me of the years on interference that the Leafs had (Ballard, Teacher's Pension, etc.).

 

I wonder if the fanbase will accept Chia saying that he tried to make trades but he could get anything done.  You have to think there are not many GM's that want to give anything of value to the kid with all the new toys that can't even play with them properly.  He may manage to trade guys like Hendricks or Korpikosky or Lander or some other low value player, but those guys are not the problem per se,

[CheersMan]

I don't think he realized what he was getting.

I think he figured his coaching would be enough to improve the team somewhat.

He might be trying to highlight the real problem for the GM and decisionmakers.

If those problem players are gone next season then what does it matter if he rips them now?

It could backfire though if you have to get something from a player who ends up returning next season after you ripped him.

 

Edit: If nothing else it will endear him to the fans. They are frustrated too and can relate to his frustrations he is being so vocal about. Instant association.

 

He better be careful he doesn't embarrass his GM and decision makers.  These rants only devalue what assets they are trying to salvage.  He more or less called out every player on his team noting the specialty units, 5 on 5, even strength, face-offs, etc.

 

If you need to coach or motivate your players to show up and compete your problem is not the coach its the players.When you ahve the exact same issues through what 4 coaches now? Your problem isn't the coach.

 

BH motivates his players with ice time and line mates.  Let’s see how TM motivates his players on game 81 after a bag skate.  TM needs to take ownership of his team, their play is a reflection of him and his message.  He needs to stop pointing fingers and using the past as an excuse for poor play.  I’m not saying his players get a pass by any means, I just don’t like his style of airing his dirty laundry in front of the cameras every week, that’s the sign of a desperate coach already.