kehatch
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Everything posted by kehatch
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Ramo hasn't had a start since November 8. Digest that. November 8. That is over three weeks between starts. Fleury and Luongo are the league leaders in starts and even their backups haven't went that many days between starts. November 8 was the second half of a back to back. Tomorrow will be the second half of a back to back. The only other ice time he has had is when Berra was pulled. Once tonight and once in a stinker against Dallas. I don't expect any of the goalies to have played lights out. But I also don't expect any of the goalies to be treated like elite goalies. Berra is getting a ratio of starts higher than any other goalie in the league. He hasn't played well enough to deserve that. How can you possibly justify Berra getting an elite starter load given his play? I don't expect Ramo to be the starter. I agree that Berra has played marginally better. But I also don't expect him to go over three weeks without getting a start. That is ridiculous for any goalie. Given the marginal play of both goalies they should split a start each with the better performance getting the 3 start. They should be battling for the starter position. We should be evaluating both goalies and see what we have in them. The current ratio isn't defensible and is clearly favoritism shown by the coaching staff. The guy was given the keys to the starting position as soon as he arrived and has been at zero risk of losing them. I am just waiting for Burke to blow his top and step through both Feaster and Hartley.
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That is a leap. Playing a rotation of 10 to 1 isn't good for either goalie. Ramo isn't going to be successful playing that rarely and Berra isn't good enough to handle this time workload. And Berra started in the AHL to get used to NA ice. Since called up he has played 10 of the 11 starts. Ramo is getting the second of back to backs and that is it. If Berra was lights out it might be defensible. But he hasn't been anywhere close.
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Wonder of Ramo has an KHL clause based on games played. Maybe they are trying to entice him to use it.
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Berra is getting the start again. 10 of 11 starts. Crazy and totally inappropriate.
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Only the elite goalies get 90 percent of the starts. I am not suggesting they should split starts. But they are over playing Berra and leaving Ramon on the bench for too long. Both goalies are being put into a position to fail.
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I am still not sure what we have in Berra. But I really don't know what we have in Ramo. Ramo has had one start since Berra has gotten here. Berra has a 8 to 1 ratio of starts. Very few goalies are given that workload. That is a Kipper like workload. I think it is ridiculous that Berra is getting that ratio of starts. Especially since he hasn't been lights out. Too much workload for one goalie and not enough for the other.
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Both Rama and Berra are at a point in their development where they are either ready or they won't be. I don't agree we rushed Berra. MacDonald isn't very good and he will never be any good. We know what we have in him and it isn't good enough. If you are sinking with the piece of wood you have then you drop it and grab another piece of wood. You don't worry that the one you are drowning with could possibly float a bit better then the other one you pick out. The Flames problem is they entered the season with a bunch of broken planks. They failed in developing a successor to Kipper and now they are scrambling. I haven't given up on Berra. I don't think the Flames should unless a young goalie with potential become available for the right price.
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Brossoit could come back to bite us. I don't think he will be an NHL starter. But it is possible he could. Goalies are tough to predict. But this is just the case of the Oiler's trying to find something positive in their miserable lives.
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I am not writing off Ramo either. But he is right there with Backlund and Baertschi as guys the coaching staff have on short leashes. Berra was clearly Hartley's guy from the get go and will be given every chance to be successful.
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Agreed. I am not high on any of our goalies other then GIlles. And he is a long shot still. But I am encouraged by Ortio, Berra, and Brossoit and what they are doing in their respective leagues. Berra has looked fine. He has made some saves where the puck should have went in and he has let in very few softies. He looks technically good. And as you say the team plays in front of him. Given the types of teams he has had to play, the quality of the Flames, and our state of injury he is doing VERY well.
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In 03/04 the Flames were a young team with a great work ethic that nobody expected to make the playoffs. They had been out of the playoffs for a long time and on paper they didn't look all that good. But they had a better then expected start mostly due to effort. By Nov 20 they were hovering around the 0.500 mark and were outside the playoff picture. The Flames were generally able to out shoot their opponents but goal was a major issue. The Flames went through a revolving number of goalies. Long time back-up McLennan had trouble carrying the load. Sabourin wasn't ready. Turek wasn't ever able to establish himself as a legitimate starter. So then GM Sutter traded a conditional 2-round pick to San Jose for their third string goalie. Fans were mixed on the acquisition. Many saw it as a stop gap and a failure by the Flames to address the real issue. On Nov 20, 2003 Kipper started his first game as a Flame. He won the game posting a 0.957 SV%. He then carries the team to game 7 of the cup finals. Fast forward to this season. The Flames are not expected to make the playoffs. They are off to a better start then expected. Mostly based on effort. We are hovering around 0.500. Goal is holding us back. Berra gets recalled to mixed and relatively low expectations. He posts a 0.955 SV% and wins his first game. For clarity I think it is way to premature to say Berra is the next Kipper. But the similarities between the 03 and 13 Flames is uncanny. A rebuild is all about hope. Might as well cash some of it in right now. Hope he pulls another great start his next time up.
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That was the first game this season where we won because our goalie was better then the other guy. We have lost a couple because of the opposite. Great first start by Berra. Overall I was impressed. He seemed calm. He didn't overplay. Fast legs. Good position. Really good glove hand. He directed most of his rebounds nicely. No soft goals and a bunch of pretty big saves. I am not ready to anoint him as our goalie of the future. But it was certainly a good start. Not just the win, but his fundamentals seems good.
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I think Hartley liked Berra from the start and Ramo/MacDonald stayed up because of their contract situations. This is probably a situation where Berra wanted to start and Hartley was chomping at the bit. I don't know that it really matters. Ramo hasn't been very good so I don't think Ramo gives us a better chance to win.
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I agree with this. The Flames depth chart: C: Stajan, Monahan, Colborne, Backlund W: Glencross, Cammalleri, Hudler, Stempniak, Baertschi, Jones, Galiardi, Bouma, Jackman, McGrattan D: Giordano, Wideman, Brodie, Russell, Butler, O'Brien, Smith G: Ramo, Berra, MacDonald Even with the way they are playing we get a "C-" at centre. Maybe a "B" at wing. Defense is a "C-" when healthy but is probably a "D" with Gio out. We are a solid "D" at Goalie. Maybe a "F". But if you go out and spend assets to bring on someone like Miller right now you are still short up the middle and on defense. At best you improve from a bottom 7 team to a bottom 14 team. And you are out the assets you spent to bring on a band-aid at goal. Some people think we could be a couple of games above .0500 if we had a decent goalie. And they might be right. But I don't think we sustain that over 82 games with the roster we have. That all said I still don't like where we stand moving into the future. Very few of those guys you mention are more than temporary solutions. I do believe the Flames still need to be looking for a long term solution. Or at the least padding our G prospects to improve our chances in the future. But I also recognize there aren't any obvious targets out there. So rolling the dice on long shots might be our only real chance. I agree with most of what you are saying. But he lost us the Toronto game as well.
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This is why I didn't agree with posters who suggested we start looking at goalies after the rebuild is well underway. Schneider was out of our price range. But if LA was willing to trade Bernier in the division we should have been on that. I like GIlles as a prospect, but that is a small basket to be putting all of our goalie eggs into. The problem right now though is we don't have a solution. I would rather roll the dice on Berra/Ramo than on a guy like Bryzgalov or DiPietro. Same with Mason when he was available. There isn't any reason to spend big assets to get a 33 year old pending UFA like Miller. Hiller is similar to Miller and he isn't available. I was a fan of going after Reimer previously but he isn't available now. Etc. In other words there aren't any targets for the Flames to go after that fit our needs. Which is why we are rolling the dice on Ramo/Berra. Unfortunately so far we are rolling craps. Maybe a kid becomes available that is NHL ready and better than what we have. But so far we (and like you say the Oiler's) are out of luck.
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I feel bad for a player like Backlund. He has been given 7-minutes a night with one of the harshest d-zone starts in the league and yet he is scratched because he isn't scoring. I feel bad for Baertschi because he is having a huge impact on his line and not getting credit for it. I don't feel bad for MacDonald. The Flames basically said the only reason he made the team out of camp was his waiver eligibility. He was given a lion's share of the starts without really earning them during the Flames easiest stretch of the season. The Flames managed to win some games, but not due to goal tending. He is a career 0.900 goalie and has been about the same this season. I think he was given opportunity but he lacked the talent to capitalize on it. It is unlikely any other team would have signed him this summer. If they did it is unlikely he would have had a better opportunity with another team. If he is an NHL goalie he will get claimed. If he isn't he will get close to a million bucks to play backup in Abby.
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Ya. I expected to come in and find the Mac attacks. The first two goals weren't his fault. But an NHL goalie saves some of the ones that otherwise wouldn't be his fault. His rebound control was particularly bad tonight and led to one goal. The one from beside the net can't happen. Two games in a row where the Flames deserved the win but lost in the goalie battle. I really wish there was a goalie available that fit the bill of a rebuild. I really wish we would have been in on Bernier (though with LA in our division they may not have been willing). Unfortunately the only option is to put in Ramo next game and hope he rebounds. And if he doesn't hope that Berra can do better.
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I don't think so. Under the new CBA all but 900K of Ramo's contract would still impact our cap situation. But Berra just had a bit of a stinker in the AHL where he was pulled. They will probably let this run its course for a bit longer before bringing Berra up. I am pretty certain Berra gets his shot at some point though.
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It is much more likely goal tending improves than the Flames sustain their scoring. And of course you aren't the only one that saw Ramo struggle last night. That doesn't mean he is a horrible goalie. I also thought he was 'okay' in his other starts. I am not optimistic we are going to find an elite starter this season. But I don't think the Flames should make a panic move to improve in goal with the expectations they are otherwise a playoff team. I think they should be patient to truly see what they have in net. Panic moves in a rebuild is silly. We are less than 20-games into a rebuild. Fans need to learn patience. Despite a strong start we are probably in for a long season or three. EDIT: Excluding last night Ramo has had a very high EV SV%. That is a better metric than overall SV% for a goalie. The Flames PK has been terrible. If you want to blame losses on something that is the weakest link. The PP isn't much better.
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Ramo was horrible last night. But the Flames not making the playoffs won't be on Ramo. As you have said a 100 times the team is weak at too many positions to sustain a winning pace over 82 games and now they have injuries to one of their key players going into one of the toughest stretches of the season. It is too bad the Flames didn't go after a guy like Bernier. But wasting assets on a veteran doesn't make sense. Wasting starts on Mac (who hasn't been any better) doesn't make sense. Ramo has always been a long shot. So is Berra. But at least they both have the potential to be starting goalies. It is the right strategy and one stinker start doesn't change that.
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The Flames have one legitimate goalie prospect in the system. And Gilles is a long ways off. I was an advocate of going after a guy like Bernier. But most here didn't think it was worth spending assets on a young goalie until were were further along with the rebuild. That has left us trying to find out what we have available to us. Pulling the plug on our best option 4 games in would be very silly. We know what we have in MacDonald. If we want to guarantee mediocre tending than he is the guy to go with. Berra, Ramo, Brossoit, and Ortio are all guys we have in the system that are long shots but are also guys that could surprise and prove to be starting NHL goalies. Brossoit is clearly not ready. I don't think Ortio is either. If the Flames decided to give Berra a shot I would have been fine with it. But giving Ramo a reasonable number of starts to work things out makes a lot of sense. Despite what some people say Ramo was one of the best goalies in the KHL. That is coming from people that actually watched the games as opposed to to those that are assigning absolutes based on the box scores. The guy was a perennial KHL starting all star. Even by just the stats he was good. Omsk sure misses him. They are 20 games in and have cycled through five goalies trying to find a starter. That includes former NHLer Biron. None have managed anywhere near a .900 SV%. Ramo was always between 0.925 and 0.930. I really don't see how anyone could make a claim that Ramo was a sub par goalie in the KHL. Given where he is in his development Ramo is probably our best bet to find a starter this season. He hasn't been that bad. His stats aren't very good, but neither is Mac's. Ramo had the starts against the tougher teams with his first three starts against the Capitals, Sharks, and Kings. I only fault him on one of the goals against Dallas. I thought he was really good in the Kings game and for most of the Dallas game. Its a rebuild. Patience people. We can't be ready to throw a goalie under the bus after 4-starts.
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The Flames are one of the top offensive teams in the NHL right now. That is why they are getting points. Last night wasn't any different. I thought the Flames won in spite of goal tending. Mac struggled handling the puck along the boards all night. One ended up in our net. He gave up some really bad rebounds. The goals he did let in were stoppable. I am not saying he was horrible. But he wasn't good either. He has had one really good game. That was against Montreal. The other three games weren't very good. It shows up in his stats. I understand the Flames don't want to mess with the success they are having. But the Flames played well in front of Ramo as well. If they are so fragile that they will only play well in front of MacDonald than we are in real trouble anyway. It is in the best interest of the franchise (present and future) to see what they have in Ramo.
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Mac getting a start yesterday after the loss is why I think people have some concern. But I am willing to give that one a pass since I am not sure if they wanted Ramo under extra pressure against his old team. That might have nothing to do with it. It might just be Hartley favoring Mac. But I am willing to give it one more loss before I get too worried. But if this continues I am with you. I won't like it either.
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I believe it was Peter Maher who said something along the lines of some coaches trust certain guys. It was in response to the "why MacDonald" question. But it might just be an off the cuff answer. I am not worried yet either. As I said the fact that the opposition was Montreal might have been the reason for Mac getting the start last night. There is no question Mac deserves the start tomorrow. But I think it is a fair question on why MacDonald is getting all of the starts when (other than last night) neither goalie has been particularly good. If MacDonald loses a game I hope Ramo gets the next start. if he doesn't I will start worrying a bit. Ramo needs to play to get better. We may have him signed for two years, but if he isn't getting the play time he won't be very good. If there plan is to put him on the bench than they should cycle him and Berra so Ramo can get some NA starts in Abby.
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I am not sure that is necessarily fair. I think most people's assessment was that (before last night) MacDonald hadn't perform any better than Ramo. The coaches had indicated a "you win you are in" approach to the goal tending situation so when the Flames lost to Vancouver with Mac in almost the identical way they lost to Washington with Ramo they were expecting Ramo to get the next start. I think that is a fair expectation. It appears to many, including a number of media close to the Flames, that the coaching staff has a bit of a preference to MacDonald. And if that is true that is a problem IMO because I think it is in the Flames best interest to see what they have in Ramo. That said, If MacDonald earns the starts (like he did last night) than I don't have any problem with him getting starts. I think putting him in tomorrow is absolutely the right call. And as I said above, Ramo not getting the start last night may have been because it was Montreal. But as we go forward I think fans will have a legitimate complaint if the Flames don't give Ramo a fair crack. MacDonald might be the starter this season. But he isn't the starter of tomorrow. The Flames need to find that person. They need to see enough of Ramo to at the very least scratch him off the list.