travel_dude

Patrick is a migraine risk, so similar to a player like Ferland. Might have to retire. I'm just thinking that Philly needs as much a player like Tkachuk as they do Gaudreau. He would draw the fans just as much, if not more. They would love him there. The COVID climate and pending expansion draft really lower the value of those types of trades. Had it happened we would be down a player that might have been the wrong one to deal. But, I will say it's possible that Tkachuk is injured and just won't come out. If true, then I would send him to skating school after recovery. He sucks generating speed. Gio looks better than him at times.

Elite C's are a smaller list by that standard. Panarin and Kane don't count.

Unless we win all 3 against MTL, there is no realistic way we can make the playoffs. Sure, it's possible that MTL loses every game but those. With VANcouver not winning anything but the 4 against us, they still don't make it. We make the playoffs with 47 points (tied with MTL, but we have more RW's). That would be INSANE.

I actually think that adding Risto increases the cost, not just a salary dump. Stick to the simple deal and add a pick or a prospect like Phillips if that's what it takes. TBH, I don't even know if Eichel should be a target. A lot of stink from Buffalo. Neck surgery this summer. Maybe we would do Tkachuk to Philly for Konecny and Patrick. One of those is a risky deal. The other is a player position we actually need. Gaudreau-Lindholm-Konecny Mangiapane-Monahan-Patrick

So, you can call it a stretch, but if you mention Nate MacKinnon in a different light, you are wrong. How many players regularly score move than 20 goals per season? More than 30? Not many. If your standard is Matthews, then I will agree elite is too strong.

Bennett scored 3 on Luongo in that game. Janko scored in a garbage game with Suban in at the end of the season. Neither player really achieved what they could have here for various reasons. Janko was always a lesser version of Backlund; defensive C that wasn't that good defensively. Bennett never was able to hit the net. Simplistic, but both were frustrating to watch.

Nobody will ever understand that one TBH. Not so much that they didn't have him on their list, just that they picked two lesser talents first (Granlund and Wotherspoon). One might think they looked at Granny's brother and though he must be as good (wasn't even close when drafted). In Granny's draft +1 he posted similar number, on the same team his brother played. But that was after he was drafted. No excuse for Wotherspoon, though they had scouted Baertschi a lot that season. They had two picks in the 2nd round and still picked marginal players.

I think that's exactly it. We can't compete against Ottawa. We play well (some nights) against the Oilers because we can contain the top line. The rest of the roster is crap. We can play well against TOR because they sometimes don't take getting hit very well. WPG blows us out of the water because they have speed and pace. The only thing that gives us a chance against them is their D. MTL is trying to play big and are getting burned. This season it's hard to even tell how we would do against the league. Probably no better than 500. That's not fact based, just an estimation on how we can't score a lot of nights and would have trouble with defensive teams.

Monahan has two years remaining after this year. Tkachuk remains under team control after one year. I don't see many teams offering up two young players on decent deals (for now). Maybe I'm wrong, but the offers would be closer to a Tkachuk, a top prospect and a 1st. Could be wrong, but I don't see that many teams that can match.

A (former) elite scoring C vs a complimentary C/RW that is on a value contract. They already have Reinhart, who is probably a similar style to Lindholm. Tkachuk should be worth 3/4 of the asking price for Eichel alone. If you break it down, they get a C that has scored at a level equal to or higher than Eichel. They get a young LW that plays a physical game at both ends of the ice.

I think people focus the blame on single players. Tkachuk is doing a lot more negative stuff in the last month than the other have ever done. The issue I have right now is I don't know what transpired to turn Tkachuk into a fool. He has never played this bad. You could argue that Bennett (and his agent) sealed their own fates. Bennett with more lazy penalties and a few shifts like PLD's final one in CBJ. His agent talking about opportunity, while the coach makes him look like he was being spoiled. Playing on the 2nd line but not really showing much there.

Bennett only had to outplay Granlund to cement his future, but somehow he didn't manage to. That was BH as the head coach. His "best" season was when somebody was injured and he played with Backlund as a LW. The Flames exited the rebuild quickly, but the leading indicators were there. How they managed assets at that points had as much to do with the failure to progress as anything. Nothing wrong with a win-now attitude if you manage it right. Yet, we decided to sign Brouwer, trade for Elliott, trade Hamilton, sign Neal, trade for Stone and Smith, trade for Hamonic..... Any of those alone was a step in the wrong direction. Hamilton was a costly trade, but was it was done after we failed on Hamonic and Brouwer. Neal set up a $6m #3LW trade. Stone set up a buyout, like Bouma and Brouwer. Combined, this has a lot to do with how poorly we exited the rebuild.

I would be happy with Tkachuk + Monahan for Eichel. The NTC would be an issue. But I think it gives us a better outlook. Gaudreau-Eichel-? Mangiapane-Lindholm-? Seems to me we can build a better roster with those 4 pieces. Elusive RW's of course, but should be easier than getting a top C.

This is a difficult thing to nail down. Huberdeau is no slouch to play with. Who would we even have equivalent to him to have Bennett play with? And it's not like he wasn't given opportunity with almost every player on this team. Almost. He's only player 2 games in FLA and already has 3 points. This is in no way a shot against Bennett. He was always the wrong player for this team, the way it's constructed. He's a C that plays a heavy game, but we had two lines that were successful without him. 3M and Gatorade lines. Mangiapane took what was given (4th line mostly) and used that to jump into the top 6. He didn't force his way to be the #3C until Ryan was injured. Yeah, Ryan was a BP pet, but you have to give the coach reasons for keeping you as a C. If he was going to replace Backlund, he had to outplay him.

That's exactly the problem. There is no reason he should have been back the next game.

This is a broad discussion, but it seems to me like the roster has problems that can't be fixed with a change to playing style or coaching. Playing with pace seems to be the common complaint that Sutter talks about. I don't see Monahan as the biggest issue now. Nor do I really think Gaudreau is the problem. Both are having down seasons. We kept them together, even while they struggled last playoffs and this season. Are they really the problem? Gaudreau's numbers have been trending down, but I don't know that it's the league figuring him out as much as failure to build around him. He was played with one player that could actually finish, and that player was struggling more under Ward than Sutter. Considering the skill, it's amazing that he has games with zero shots. Tkachuk has turned into a liability more games than not. Not sure what happened to him, but he makes more questionable plays every game. Gio has looked better with Tanev, but the pair looks painfully slow. We don't have a replacement trusted enough to develop into the Gio replacement, nor do we have a 3rd pair RD. If we are going to trade Gio and Tkachuk, then we need to do so prior to expansion. Get the players in place we actually want to keep. Maybe I'm wrong here, but Tkachuk has to either change the player he has shown the last month or we have to move him for a player worth $9m to qualify. Right now, I almost see trading Tkachuk for Laine. Neither have played well defensively, but at least one can score normal goals. That may be an extreme example, but we lack speed with Tkachuk. Staying slow doesn't help us.

I used to see Tkachuk as part of the solution, but this season I don't even know what to think anymore. What made him a special player has completely dried up. The key date that jumps out is the player-only meeting. Coincidental or not, it sticks out.

This theme seems to be all too familiar. The falling part is almost what you expect from a toddler. Yeah, he blew and edge, but if you can't skate on your edges, don't use them. A minute 45 and the goalie just leaving the net, and he won't even make a direct play to get the puck in deep. I don't think the way they broke out as a group was very smart, but it seemed like everyone was waiting for Tkachuk to pass, except Tkachuk. Much like the Scheifele goal where he fell, he's looking like he gives up way to easily. Perhaps there is some friction about playing a skill game, but Tkachuk isn't making the simple things look good. Monahan was played on the 2nd PP unit, yet he is not the biggest liability out there. In fact, he is playing with more intelligence than our highest paid player. He's only rarely doing good things on the PP. Maybe give Gaudreau and Lindholm a player that gives 100% (or a crap). EDIT - Criticizing Tkachuk here, but both Gaudreau and Valimaki gave the pucks away on multiple occasions. Hanifin's play on the shortie was key as well. When your mistakes end up in the net, then you aren't going to win many games.

I used your first source, brought up the player and linked to the current rankings. Here is the link that was listed for his ranking (and the other goalies): https://www.eliteprospects.com/draft-center/2021/dobberprospects You are using one from 2020. Wolf is plateauing from the crazy amount of shutouts. So is Cossa, with 5 goals against his last game. Oh, I jest. Not that I think Dobber is accurate, but there are so many F's and D's ranked higher in most rankings.

I would tend to agree that I saw some more attack in the middle, but I still see far too much just going up the boards. When I notice that the most is when we are pensive moving out of the zone. Reminds me of the references that (IIRC) Versteeg talked about; waiting behind the net with the puck and moving it out slowly. Slow execution. There are times when it absolutely work, like when the forwards are on the verge of hitting the O-zone and they want to attack the zone to recover it. We've seen players like Gaudreau and Mangiapane beat out the D to the puck. Anyway, I am interested to se what a real off-season does. Especially considering the potential changes to this team.

I think they need to look at things this summer to see how to improve them. I didn't expect Sutter to have much time to do anything in the season, but I do hope he looks at it closely. When you say N/S, I assume you are referring to the knack of always trying to move the puck along the boards. Like the stretch pass, I think it can be effective, as long as it's not the only thing used.

Wolf is in his 4th year in the WHL, as a player that just turned 20. As a player 16 years old, turning 17, he put up .928 with 4 shutouts. The argument about goalie size is debatable at the junior level. Gillies was a standout in college. Never translated to pro that well; development questionable perhaps. If you want to use a late extra 2nd, perhaps it's an efficient use of a pick. Ranked 7th out of available goalies by Dobber. Not that he's an expert, but looking at two number (size and SA%) doesn't give me a lot to go on.

Ya got me there. Also a cautionary tale of player attitudes. Perhaps it's only an East Coast thing where players from certain areas only want to play for the Rags.

I was not saying Americans, I was talking about where they were drafted out of. We didn't draft Tkachuk out of the US. I was including Gaudreau in the later rounds. Did I miss someone?

^^^^^ Please send addressed to Tod Button.