robrob74
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Posts posted by robrob74
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45 minutes ago, cross16 said:
Now 25 mins in his second game.
would certainly appear like rust is not a factor for him after the injury.
L
it is good to hear, but the hope is he doesn’t overextend himself as he’s the kind that will push himself, but possibly to injury...
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5 hours ago, travel_dude said:
His biggest and best effort was moving Lucic....for Neal.
A guy that scored nothing from the time he came back of IR to the end of the season.
Easier to buy out.
Waste of two x 2nd for a guy they can't afford.
Ennis was a decent trade.
Other than than, another gong show
you almost feel bad for their fans and then... they post a comment on a message board and remind you why you don’t.
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18 minutes ago, CheersMan said:
Fox continued on and gave CAR the middle finger salute as well. Punk Kids.
but they still got a 2nd rounder for him whereas we got nothing. It’s opinion, and I get that we all don’t agree, but I just saw Hamilton’s value higher at the time as he was clearly the best player at the time, and a top pair RHS RD. Before that deal Lindholm averaged less than 40 points per game so can’t really say it was an upgrade at the time. Everyone was saying they hoped he could do more at the time, and could be a top 6 not a top liner.
Hanifin was also and is still viewed as a #4D, not any higher. I don’t think his upside is higher than that. We did gift a 2nd rounder to the Canes in that deal. I just think it needed to be a separate deal is all.
we can all be right in this situation because all of our opinions are our opinions. Some of us feel the deal was even with just Hamilton and Ferland. While others believe they Canes may not have done the deal without Fox. But that’s negotiation. I would not have done the deal at the time.
Lindholm was happy to sign his deal with the Flames because he was probably worth a bit less. The price was kind of high for someone who didn’t really breach 40 points. The same goes for Hanifin. I’d suggest he’s about 500K overpriced but that’s just me.
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2 hours ago, cross16 said:
The Canucks bottomed out because they tried to keep winning with the Sedins by giving out horrible contracts, several bad trades and sewering their cap and team in the process. Deserve some credit for picking Petterson but also very lucky that other teams passed on him in a strong draft. I’m not trying to put Benning down as he is a good drafter but I don’t think the Canucks are a model for success at all, nor a model rebuild.
they did exactly what the Flames did in their “rebuild” and the difference is the Canucks got Petterson and the Flames got Bennett.
They were also lottery losers A few times dropping a few spots. They’ve been lottery losers more times than not and teams that are big lottery winners push teams like the Canucks down the draft board. Even just 1-2 spots could be huge. And it happened 2-3 times to them.
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1 hour ago, CheersMan said:
Some say blow it up!
Who thought VAN should have blown it up when Jimbo took over the mess Gillis left him? I did. I thought for sure they would spend the next 5+ yrs in the basement collecting picks.
I thought Jimbo was 8 eggs short of a dozen when he took over VAN but he has shown how to build a completive team in short order with the tools at his dispense.
Some will say what has VAN won? Well the answer is nothing and I hope it stays nothing but they may have had a better team than ours this post season.
What if Jimbo never fell for the Bart trade, he may have Anderson in his wheel house instead.
What if Jimbo took Tkachuk instead of positional need in Juolevi? I haven't seen Juolevi play, maybe he turns out to be a player, who knows.
Blowing it up and living in the basement has no guarantees of producing a great team.
Look at ARI, they have been collecting draft picks for the last 10 years, where are they today?
How about TB, they have been building since 06 when they picked Stamkos 1st OA. Good chance nobody remembers them this season either.
Just sayin'
for me, it goes to show that when you have a vision or draft pedigree/ smarts then stick to it. Bending was touted as a draft guy and then like a lot of GM’s he tried to rush it by trading. They gave up a 2nd for a talented underachieving player, and then found out he was soft. Then like you said took Joulevi, but then hit on other draft picks. You’re right, they leapfrogged the Flames this year. It’s sad because the Flames looked like on a good trajectory. They hit on Pettersson, and got a stud D.
the thing is, they did go rebuild and were one of the teams that lost the lottery on every chance they got, and dropped in most drafts. I think it has been 2-3 drafts where they fell big time! But they got the two things needed, a stud #1C&D. Hughes is a gifted offensive D.
I also think they did what the Flames did. They kept the Twins until they retired but wanted their mentorship for the young, like we did in keeping Gio and Glencross. Although we traded Glennie. Edler wouldn’t wave his full no trade.
I think the Flames started to get away from what us actually working, drafting by trading 1sts and 2nds. Not hitting on Benny has hurt as well.
it isn’t that the canucks didn’t rebuild, they were and sped it up with good drafting and picking up character along the way. We aren’t far behind.
horvat is as good as Backlund or better. Pettersson better than Monahan, is more akin to Gaudreau I guess. Boesser is their monahan. Miller their Tkachuk. We should be better, but the character is not their.
is that the players, or is a coach supposed to get it out of them?
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10 minutes ago, jjgallow said:
Well this thread was created long before Ward's fate was announced. But, you're not wrong, the writing is currently on the wall. I will say, Ward is a great coach despite all the people in the Ward thread blaming him for our shortcomings on the ice because they haven't yet come to terms with how much this team is lacking and refuse to look at our consistent playoff failures over the last 6 years under a few hundred different coaches hired by BT (the least pronounced of which was under Ward).
IMHO though, it's not enough. Blow it up we will. All this means is it's not starting this off-season. It could start as early as next season's trade deadline. As much as I like Ward, he can't fix this.
it’ll be when Gaudrea or Tkachuk’s contracts run out, by then they will have spent a few more 1sts, 2nds or 3rds on trying to add, and mortgage the future, thus ruining the next rebuild, like they sort of done in Arizona and what we thought was a bad mistake in ottawa. We could be so lucky to get Ottawa luck and get 2 picks in the top 5.
although currently we are a 6-8 playoff spot team. It’s possible a goalie or star get injured and we fail and drop into a lotto. It’s like what Tampa did once or twice. And Winnipeg I guess? We’ve been fairly lucky with injuries for a long time.
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the one thing I liked about Sutter was that he was really good at making adjustments and counteracting what other teams were doing. That’s what this team had lacked.
it’s great to believe in your systems, but to die by it and not change up things that aren’t working is suicide.
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This is really interesting and relates to our discussions around the CHL allowing players to play AHL after the draft. I can see where it comes from, yet, the teams are investing in developing players to be (possibly) top players in the world. So it's a catch-22. First, they're investing in the plaintiff to improve, yet, in the adult years of his Juinior career he's not able to earn more.
I wonder if it's a thing where players play JR from 16-18/19, and then go play AHL? The onus on NHL teams to develop would be even higher.
I get it, they're making money off of these players. But will that be possible with Covid?
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I would almost continue having Lindholm with Tkachuk.
Go:
Tkachuk, Lindholm, Dube
Gaudreau, Bennett, Hall
Monahan, Backlund, Mangiapane
Lucic, Gawdin, Reider
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So let’s take away the 7 games he coached to start his HC career. Since those 7 games it looks like he went 17-15-3. Over an 82 game schedule that is 40-35-7. That’s 87 points. But I guess I am cherry-picking stats. But to be fair, the Flames always put together a streak like the 7 gamer when he took over. But still, these players have a history Of Going on a short run like that and being a .500 team the rest of the way.
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6 minutes ago, Addicted said:
So now that the team that we should have and could have beaten with a couple favourable bounces or a little tighter play to close out games, walks through to the cup final after beating us....do we still want to blow our team up, or are we closer than we think? I’m going with the latter.
I am still in the position of the team needs more. It was painfully obvious that whenever the Stars wanted to play they could outplay the Flames.
I am not any different than prior to the stars making the Finals, and it’s what scares me most that people, namely the Flames organization, thinking the Flames are close.
the lightening will sweep and all the time there are teams that can make it to the Finals but lose.
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42 minutes ago, travel_dude said:
And yet somehow the Flames played over 600 hockey under him.
Consistency is the thing missing from this team.
Maybe it's just me but I wish he would pick a system that the team can play every night.
Turn that into our identity.
If it's a good one, the team will buy in and the wins will come.
Expecting the top line to somehow be great defensively is just wrong.
take out the coach change bump that happens when switching coaches mid season, what was his record after the 7 gamer?
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4 hours ago, rickross said:
Not excited about Ward being our HC next season. Why should I be? There was nothing elite about this team under Ward. Sure he did a good job considering the circumstances he was forced to work with but I don’t think ‘good’ cuts it for this team anymore. Flames fans don’t get complacent!! Why settle for “good” coaching when this team obviously needs EXCELLENT coaching to move this team to the next step??
I do agree part of the blame falls onto BT and the players. Personally I don’t feel Ward displayed any signs of being THE COACH this team needs. I guess we’ve already forgotten how we were embarrassed by yet another consecutive post season showing...which he was on the bench for both oustings.
I guess we can keep trying the same things and expect a different result but that’s wishful thinking. According to Einstein that makes us a little bit insane too!
Here’s to hoping Ward proves me wrong...but more than likely we’ll just be in here whining about having to start a new coach and GM thread by mid season
I don’t even think he was good and the team never really stopped playing tentative hockey. I think the team played as a full team for one period under Ward, and they got blown out the next two periods to get ousted from the playoffs. I bet if there aren’t other changes to the roster the team takes a big dive and we miss the playoffs by 10 points.
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8 minutes ago, cross16 said:
Bottlom of this article. 20% reduction effective Sept 1stdoes not mention their player payroll just their employees
i think the fact that players salary is tied to cap, they would be evening out the split between owners and players over however many years it takes. Plus, how much do players have to pay back in escrow?
isnt that the whole reason Panarin doesn’t want to play next year?
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5 minutes ago, cross16 said:
as a head coach maybe but he’d very likely be in high demand for Asst/assoc coach jobs.
ya, I just wonder with the state of the league and owners wanting to save, how many teams would be hiring assistants? Maybe only those making a coaching change
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16 minutes ago, cross16 said:
I’ve always thought it was going to be Ward and I think the fact that it’s out there they the flames cut payroll 20% makes it a certainty. Hard to justify going after a high profile and expensive coach after you do that.
Probably even leading to a tough negotiation with Ward
ward will also be lucky to have a job so it’ll be fair for both sides.
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3 hours ago, tmac70 said:
No surprise.... another season of below average. The sad part is the hrad work is there but this orginaziation lacks compete
I doubt it’s as bad as the mid-to-late 90’s but for some reason it feels like it. The same ol bottom of the barrel coaches. The team is better but, I just don’t see the compete there, like you said.
need better coaching and a response to strategy in games. Then there’s motivation.
GG had the beer on the bus or plane or whatever. BP lost them halfway last year. GW had his dance music practices. How often can that work? What can he do next year if he loses the room when the effort dies?
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I think this might be the Lindros Trade Tree. It really outlines how all of the pieces in the trade turned into other pieces that might have turned into others. He brings the branch right from the original piece to the moment it ends, like when the players stop working for the Avs, the branch is finished.
it is neat to see how they used the parts, Traded They and turned those trades into players and picks and drafted more players and traded them or turned them into other picks...
for us, A good tree was Kent Nilsson Turned into a 2nd rounder that turned into Niewendyk that turned into our Iginla.
are their any others like that for us?
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5 minutes ago, cross16 said:
The Flames captain is a undrafted free agent.
Their best offensive forward, and top 75 player in the game, is a 4th round pick.
Their 2nd best dman is a 4th round pick.
One of their top 6 forwards, who was top 50 in the league this year in 5 on 5 goals, is a 5th round pick
I get it's easier to focus on what you don't have than what you do and for sure Point is a failure for a club that had him in their own backyard, but let's not pretend this is easy nor forget that the Flames are actually pretty successful in finding gems themselves.
and that’s great! I don’t think we are discounting any of that just because we haven’t mentioned it. We all know and see these things but all agree we just aren’t there yet for a variety of reasons. For me trading away picks and not accumulating ones is a huge reason they’re just not there yet. It’s that process that has us in this spot right now.
I can’t see the organization going rebuild again, maybe Johnny or Monny get traded. Does trading a first plus make us that much better (for Kuemper)?
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38 minutes ago, jjgallow said:
I feel that ownership has been more concerned with consistent revenue than blowing it out of the park.
From a business perspective, I see it.
But it's contingent on being able to fill the dome with mediocre hockey. So far they've been successful at this, unfortuantely.
and what I am saying is, build right and have a consistent revenue stream and deeper runs in the playoffs. If they are perennial contenders they can possibly Go deep in the playoffs every year.
Sure the owners spend to the cap, and say they want good teams, but they’re not willing to do the proper thing and develop players and allow them to grow. Instead they rushed in and started trading away picks to get assets to help now. And it sounds like in a deep draft they’re going to trade our first rounder for a goalie when they can possibly sign one in UFA.
they’re sacrificing the future for now and this team isn’t deep enough to say it was actually the goaltending that failed them. The last two playoffs the goalies have been the Flames best players.
I say re-sign Talbot instead of giving up assets to get Kuemper. Deep draft, we need more organizational depth.
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I caught the tail end of Elliott on the Fan with Steinberg. It sounds like the Flames are in on Kuemper. It’ll be a first rounder plus. Them and the oil are in on him.
I don’t like the sound of this. I sm tired of the Flames using picks for goalies. What else would it cost?
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6 hours ago, jjgallow said:
That trade imho was a lot closer at that time than it is now. It was lopsided for only two reasons:
- Lindros's concussions
- Nobody had any idea how good Forsberg was.
Lindros really was the dominant player in the NHL for several years after that trade. But his career wasn't long enough to see the fruit of it.
Forsberg, was...right up there with him and Lemiuex. All the links are dead. But, Forsberg was ranked to be picked in the 2nd round. Europeans were very poorly scouted back then. When the Flyers picked him in the first round, there was an outcry and people wanted the GM's head. He was not meant to be central to this trade but in hindsight he was every bit as good as Lindros or better when factoring in his concussion.
no no, did you search the trade tree on YouTube? It’s just insane how all of the parts of the trade were kept or moved to get other parts and maybe those parts were moved for others. Not just the trade in itself. I should probably find the link and post it.
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I just watched a Trade Tree video of the Lindros trade ti the Flyers and wow! The Avs really worked that one and built what should’ve been a full dynasty with it when you see all of the players and draft picks that came from it. It’s worth a watch.
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30 minutes ago, The_People1 said:
Agreed so the million dollar question is, how do we fix this for our next rebuild?
It kind of seems like this is a problem from ownership down. The mandate to win at all costs means coaches are forced to go with their favorites rather than giving the young kids an opportunity to make mistakes and learn.
that’s what scares me the most about being a fan of the organization. The owners expect playoff hockey every year and don’t try to win. They want to skip to mediocre playoff hockey.
Calgary Flames Drafting and Development: Your Analysis
in Flames Talk
Posted
The one thing about the goalie we drafted was they said they didn’t see a lot of him in person but watched a lot of video. Sigilet was one of the main guys to watch his play on video. They said he had a lot of input on evaluating the a Russian goalie’s play. I dunno if that’s good or bad as I feel he hasn’t done great in managing our own goalies play during the season so it leaves me kind of thinking WTF?
he seems to have no clue when to take guys out and leave guys in, to fix what is or isn’t working for our own goalies.