jjgallow
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Posts posted by jjgallow
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1 hour ago, The_People1 said:
Yes Cup contending. Why commit to Kadri, Weegar and Huberdeau if given a second chance when the team is going nowhere fast?
Also, if it's a Giordano, Tkachuk, McDavid, MacKinnon, etc... franchise level player, then commit long term and build around them to win.
But I mean...actual contending...
elite 1st line D, forwards that weigh more than 150 lbs, goalies that weren't overplayed. leading standings.
Not just "finished top 10 in standings so we will go for it"
If it's not....imminent, then, honestly, i think there's an arguement as a small market team for rotating the older guys out even when you're making the playoffs. Because you Should have the pipeline to do it.
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17 minutes ago, The_People1 said:
Think about the question the other way around. Did you see any moves made by SJ's GM to win down the stretch? Would lotto odds have played a role in not trying to win immediately? Would an unweighted lottery have encouraged more of an effort to win down the stretch? And also CHI and ANA... Would an unweighted lotto have encouraged them to try harder too? Instead, those three teams salivating at today's lottery.
it's tough man. tough sell.
there's a start though, where they limit how many 1st overalls you can have. Maybe build on that a bit more.
Also, push out the draft age. Part of the problem is the most poorly managed teams end up in the bottom for way longer than they should. if the draft age were pushed out it would be harder for them to screw up so bad lol
p.s...careful what you wish for because our turn could be coming
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1 hour ago, The_People1 said:
Right on. Flames need to be ready to move on from 30+ players and be ready to rotate in young players. Only commit long term to core superstar players. Don't go UFA hunting. Challenge prospects to step up to fill roles instead.
I often wonder when long term makes sense. Maybe it only makes sense if on the verge of a cup win, or when the player agrees to a home town discount.
What if....Oilers didn't re-sign McDavid, and put him on the trade block? We just assume it would be terrible for them. Well it probably wouldn't be popular with the marketing department. But.... what's the return for McDavid?
It's basically a whole new team. And there's franchises out there (Ie., New York, etc) that would pay it.Everyone praises Treliving with his Numerous long term signings, the latest one Matthews.
Who was a non-factor in the playoffs.
What's the price on Matthews?
I reckon the price was a whole new winning team.For a small market team, you gotta be good at that draft. You gotta have that second-to-none scouting department. You gotta have the full coaching staff, skating stuff, all of it. Once you're actually good at it, and you have an actual pipeline, trading away older players for MASSIVE returns is a little less scary.
It only seems scary when there's nothing in the pipeline...and that's when poor choices start. -
8 minutes ago, robrob74 said:
Ummm so can every team not be last place in the league? What does it take to make every team make the playoffs, make every team not last place in the league in the same year?
That's not possible.... there has to be some teams not making the playoffs, some teams in the very bottom. Its unavoidable.
5 rounds. believe you me, those mathematical geniuses will be thinking about it.
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Super excited about this draft but I still would rather save our arena-deal pick for Landon Dupont.
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1 hour ago, cross16 said:
They haven't actually completed the draw yet, at least according to their own timeline.
sounds like that is a rehearsal board.
they did this last year too lol, but this time it's worse. looks like leaked to me.
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52 minutes ago, The_People1 said:
Same same. Every player should be made available to help get another pick (except Wolf). Flames have nothing to lose at this stage of their rebuild/retool. "Worst" case is we trade away a very good veteran and the Flames pick even higher next season, right? It's not like we are Cup contenders or anything.
That's the reality of a properly done rebuild. Could we sell all our picks and turn it around next year?
If "turning it around" means finishing middle of the pack and barely making the playoffs....maybe yes. LOLWe do this right, and in a few years not Only can we sell at the TDL, but we'll have a young talented guy waiting in the AHL or abroad to fill that spot and do an even better job of it.
Your rebuild is done when you can sell at the TDL and not even feel it because of the prospects you have ready.
If we land two top-10 picks I might just go ahead and buy season tickets for the first time. -
5 hours ago, conundrumed said:
Yup. All those yesterdays.
Conroy (forcibly, I guess) had to move guys, had no cap.
You're rebuilding. It's evident. Conroy is steering it well imo. He's doing a nice job of doing it quietly.
They will totally be yesterdays when the resulting players retire and the Flames are a contender with prospects.
@cross16 listed off like 72 GMs in a row that all had same behaviour. I think it's okay for us to want the actual behaviour to change, rather than just constantly saying it was in the past.
I also hope Conroy is that changemaker. Not proven yet, but reason for hope.
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5 minutes ago, The_People1 said:
Strategically speaking, I feel the Flames need D more than F since it's the first year of what might be a 3 to 4 year retool. D take longer to develop so take a D first. Prioritize Buium and Dickinson. If they are gone, then look at Silayev, Parekh, and Yakemchuk... Maybe even Jiricek.
RHS RD are rare so taking one now means not having to worry about it 5 years down the road... Look at BUF and OTT... Solid LDs but can't get pairings right because no top tier RD. Yakemchuk is likely never going to be elite but potentially 2/3/4 on the depth chart. Goes a long ways to complement the team in 5 years time.
And Tij because it's Iginla.
It's an awkward time.
If we are being really....really...really honest lol...
There is a possibility that Landon Dupont could solve our RD issues. Not enough to seriously plan for though.
There's time. There's one thing that comes ahead of D, and we can't just hope Wolf solves it all.
I hope to see us come away with several of these guys. Won't be expensive.
https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/news/2024-nhl-draft-10-goaltenders-you-need-to-know
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6 minutes ago, cross16 said:
I'm in management and I push back all the time but did you work for Murray Edwards? I know I haven't but i know people who have.
I know just one, and they would agree with you.
Yeah things are not where I want them to be, it's true.
Your point...Conroy may have gotten lucky with arena deal: Maybe. But I dunno, this is the 2nd deal and they never let up for the 1st deal before it fell through 🤷♂️
I think you were right here. You look back at that thread, Conroy literally did everything we were moaning about him not doing. And the return was pretty decent. We had no idea then that Markstrom could have value. He started his tenure with "if you don't like it, that's okay, you won't be here". And he was extremely nice, he was very Conroy. But that's exactly what he did.
Maybe...just maybe, this stuff takes longer than we want it to. I don't like it...but I can live with it. Conroy is a guy that I believe is good at making people think decisions were theirs. Making owners think decisions were theirs, making players think decisions were theirs. I might be wrong, but,
Either way, you can only fault him with hypotheticals. He got that job done. Let's see what he does now. Most importantly, he didn't go veering off in the opposite direction.
Now if he messes up the draft, my love-in is over. But, this is an arguement about Conroy not going far enough, versus Treliving going in the opposite direction.
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2 minutes ago, cross16 said:
I've never discounted the short term thinking and for sure I'm frustrated about it. I was frustrated when Sutter did it, I was frustrated with Feaster did it, was frustrated when Treliving did it (albeit yes a little less so because at least I thought he had some pieces worth betting on) and now i'm frustrated to hear/see Conroy do it too. I don't like hearing about the Dallas model, didn't like that he didn't deal Markstrom and didn't like that they went into the season talking playoffs. Not gonna hide from that at all because its the truth, but it's more true of the organization then it is the GMs.
Difference between you and I is you seem to really like to make this personal towards the GMs themselves. Treliving was the short term thinker and reckless with picks whereas I look at the environment and the mandate. The Flames did not hire Treliving to oversee a patient rebuild and nor did the leafs so why be surprised the behavior is different? In the first year on the job Treliving acquired multiple draft picks and came very close to adding 2 more 1st rounders in the 2014 draft until the clubs balked at the deal (mostly due to who was available to them). So this idea that he has this reckless mindset isn't really there and the behavior is consistent with the mandate and the environment .
Markstrom should have been traded, we 100% agree. But, totally different spectrum, right?
In 2016, Giordano should have been traded. Imho But nobody wanted that, everyone wanted to forge ahead, even though it may have cost us a cup by now. We're not complaining about that though, we're complaining about all the picks that were sold.
Here's the thing. I fully admit there's truth in what you're saying and that ownership has a role here. Conroy for sure wanted to trade Markstrom, and for sure told Markstrom he would be dealt. Something happened. And I don't like it.
But, Conroy's not selling out. He's not giving up. He's publicly said that his mandate is to have a contender when the new arena is built. Well hello that is a rebuild mandate if I ever heard one, and for anyone else who's ever been involved in construction lol.
So what happened? Did the owners have an afterlife experience and change perspective?
In my brief experience in management, I pushed back on owners. You would be surprised to learn that I was not fired. You would not be surprised to learn that I didn't like it. So I run things myself now with nobody above me to answer to. Just a team and customers to answer to.
It's possible to push back. In my limited experience. And I appreciate people who do push back. Conroy, I feel, is extremely skilled at this, to the point that he can push back without owners even knowing he's pushed back.
Case in point, his mandate of putting together a contender in the new arena. Who's mandate really was that? IMHO, a good GM helps make that mandate happen. What we are seeing in Toronto, is the opposite of that. Again. It looks, to me, like a GM trying to build a legacy in the shortest amount of time possible.
When he signed Matthews, he said his main objective in signing him was to "remove a distraction" and "focus on winning". Literally did not even mention the long term as a reason for signing the guy. If find that weird. And I was not surprised that he was played sick and injured from game 2 onward despite rumours that it was dangerous to do so. Like, sorry, but it sounds a lot like a guy who was born into wealth and had these things come easy to them. The picks sold...so much more...
You're right, Conroy's not perfect but I feel like he's shifted the whole conversation. Something which was supposed to be impossible to do.
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25 minutes ago, cross16 said:
No frustration from me i just don't get it especially when (as this post shows) there is usually little logic behind it and rather some weird conspiracy style bulletin board rationale. Someone not getting a dman taken 12 picks ahead of their draft spot is the GMs fault which is weird but i'm sure you'll connect the dots for me in some post that also makes no sense.
As I've said for multiple years now if you want to lay this on the feet of the GM and ignore the pattern that is the Flames organization, go nuts if that is what makes you feel better. I'm sure you said the same thing about Sutter, the GM, and i'm sure you'll say it about Conroy soon enough too because I don't think the Flames (or really any organization for that matter) are capable of hiring a GM that will meet your approval.
If you want to talk about what lessons you want the Org to learn or do differently I'd be here for that discussion but linking it all back to Treliving (especially when didn't do any of the complaints you have differently from the last several GMs) is where it makes no sense IMO.
If we were so far away, then, how'd we get Tkachuk?
We were absolutely right there. We picked up Hamilton, Elliot, Stone, for....how many draft picks?
And we didn't stop there. Kept going, Smith...Hamonic (NYI used that to get Noah Dobson),Just a constant stream of selling picks for short term solutions at a time when we should have been acquiring more picks and prospects. We played guys injured, we switched up coaches, and we achieved....
regular-season mediocrity.
For the price of an arguably generational home-grown player whom they were fully aware of.
Following season we were right back down there.
You yourself were frustrated by the direction. Very frustrated, you've said many times. You gave Treliving the enormous benefit of the doubt that he was made to be a puppet. But now we see the same behaviour in Toronto.
The way I see it, we should be happy because if Treliving was a big part of the problem, then we are Not doomed.
What you see as pessimistic, I do not.
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59 minutes ago, cross16 said:
The axe to grind for some on BT is pretty weird and disappointing. Really don't understand at all why he has to come up so much. Feels awfully petty to me.
I don't think Marner is the problem and I think he played better than most, just thought he was a bit snake bitten. I get the cap argument but IMO the biggest trap you can fall into is thinking that cap space is more valuable then talent. It's not a good FA crop this year so if you are going to move Marner you better get the right return. Moving him for cap is a big mistake IMO.
I'd actually be more concerned about the Rielly deal than I would be about the Marner one if you want to talk cap space. Year 2 of an 8 year deal at 7.5 for a high end puck moving dman and PP QB and your PP was a huge factor in costing you the series and you had to amend your style of game in order to defend better. Yikes.
I don't think the Leafs have the core (in particular the blueline) to win a cup and I don't see a great path to it. I do think if Matthews had of been healthy they likely win that series so I don't think it's as grim as it seems but the path to winning a cup is blurry because I don't see how they are going to build a championship caliber blueline with the assets available to them.
I do understand your frustration (with me lol), and I admit it does seem like there's a vendetta. But there's really not. Treliving's being discussed across all of hockey right now, and not too favorably.
There's a lot of true gentlemen on here and that's why nobody "yet" bumped this thread.
For me, it's not the man. It the short-term moves. Now if that's the owners, fine, but, man oh man it sure doesn't look like it now.
There is Sooo much...that I actually think we should learn from.
7 years ago, we agreed on something. 😅 (I'm joking, it actually happens pretty often)
The first mention of Cale Makar on these boards, by you. Our scouts knew what he was. Draft was deemed week, and upgradeable. We were artificially lower it in after numerous other short term decisions. You were intrigued, I was intrigued. He was in our backyard.
But he was a "project". Sure enough, Valimaki was ready sooner.
I don't totally discredit organisations like you think. I think they knew very well of Makar's potential. But they went with the D that would be ready the fastest. Big, not bad at anything, all checkmarks, no uncertainties, no warts. I feel the Flames knew, and went with the short term decision. As they did 95% of the time.
We got a draft coming up where we get to pick from long-term and short term success. We have a busy summer where we get to pick between long term and short term decisions.
All I am saying, is I hope we learn from it. And yeah, if we don't learn from it, that does actually vindicate Treliving lol. But hopefully we do.
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On 2/4/2024 at 12:41 PM, phoenix66 said:
Well then we have a pickle don't we ... Conroy is on record as essentially saying his marching orders is to put a contender on the ice when we skate onto the new ice ..with construction starting this year that's now projected ad the 26-27 season...
So you bring in the kids ..let them grow and compwte and learn from the vets .. at some point those prospects we draft (or the picks before we draft ) after this season will likely be flipped for established players and more game ready prospects
You need veteran D to bring the kids along and insulate scoring from players who may bleed chances .. we've seen Kadri with Zary .. Huberdeau to a degree with yegor.. (I personally want to see him with Pelletier too) ..I'm extremely intrigued whether he and Andrei can mesh .. we will never be bad enough to draft a Conner (nor is there one on the horizon I'm told ) ... You lose our the vets as soon as they get older next thing you know it's young guns all over again
I never heard him say this...but...that's big.
I hear that as "go do a rebuild" because there's no way the new arena will meet its targets.
2026/2027 is...actuallly, when we want hit rock bottom in a proper rebuild.
Everything up until then should be about building up our D, or goaltending prospects, all the long term stuff.
Then in 26/27 you've got Gavin MacKenna and our own Calgarian Landon Dupont...and Boom.
Uphill from there.
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6 hours ago, conundrumed said:
Tuesday, the 7th.
Nothing good ever happened on a Tuesday.
I was born on a Tuesday
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1 hour ago, The_People1 said:
Marner needs to go. Too much cap eaten by someone who doesn't play playoff hockey. Flames should be interested this summer since the Flames aren't going to the playoffs next year. Try to flip him at the next TDL.
Also looks like Leafs may be done with Samsonov. Woll is probably their goalie moving forward... BUT maybe BT will target Markstrom to replace Samsonov.
BT needs to rebuild that entire Blueline and if probably starts with unloading Mariner's cap hit.
If he's looking to rebuild the blue-line yeah. we got some pieces. and they got draft picks (a few left anyway).
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Signs Matthews to $53m, to ensure Toronto will be an old team for next 6 years
Says it's about long term security
Lets him play injured.
We seen all this before.
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1 minute ago, conundrumed said:
What? Most of that hot mess is Dubas' doing. Blaming BT for trying to negotiate a hot mess with little cap is nothing more than grinding an axe.
Well we agree it's a hot mess. Call it bad attitude, call it grinding an axe, let's just never tolerate it here ever again.
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8 minutes ago, redfire11 said:
So are we hoping for VGK's to win tonight so the 2024 3rd round pick transfers to a 2025 2nd or a Dallas win so they go the the SC and we receive their 2024 3rd rounder?
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4 hours ago, rocketdoctor said:
Leafs nation will no doubt turn on the team but the series was very close and could have gone either way. As fans we tend to lose sight that the other team want to win as well and blame our own team for the loss.
It was a very defensive series and all the goalies were very good. Really enjoyed eatching that series was intense hockey ervery game.
That was an incredibly positive outlook, and god bless you for it,
I wish I were a gentleman sometimes. But, I also know you're going to enjoy the 2nd, 3rd round, and Stanley Cup finals, and I am just Soooo, sooo glad that we are now closer to being in them because we don't have a GM hell-bent on making incredibly idiotic short-term team-destroying decisions time and time again.
Treliving did to the leafs what he did to us in Record time thanks to even more faith and spending from ownership. People are already talking rebuild, but I suspect he will try to keep it afloat for one or two more seasons with even More short-term decisions before finally hitting a brick wall and...Yes...applying for jobs with other teams.
So here's my positivity:
Conroy has not yet done anything to harm the organisation, every move he's made has been in the long-term interest of the franchise, and because of that I can easily say we are years ahead of the leafs in terms of the next legit chance of winning a cup. I fully expect to see it here, before there.
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7 hours ago, The_People1 said:
I want Buium and Dickinson the most and I would be mad if we pass on them to take Yakemchuk or Tij. But at 9, it's probable both Buium and Dickinson are gone. In that case, Yakemchuk and Tij have as good a chance as Silayev/Parekh/Catton/etc.
Let's not forget, RHS RD with size/grit and can score. There's value there if it translates to the NHL. Yakemchuk has homerun potential.
I just hope we swing, yeah. I admit there will be others with homerun potential. But, the homerun potentials are All going to have warts in our spot. Most likely. Take the "best one", and get actively involved in their development. Get them a skating coach they wouldn't be able to afford, etc.
I won't be upset, as long as they don't reach into the 2nd round and pick someone never discussed here. I want to believe that's impossible LOL.
If we upgraded our other 1st rounder and got both Tij/Yakemchuk, I don't think we would regret it. Depending...on how Tij felt about it as others pointed out. -
21 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:
I can't believe it happened to the Leafs.... AGAIN.
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On 5/1/2024 at 10:03 PM, Thebrewcrew said:
What is Edmonton gonna do if they play a team that can kill a penalty?
I don’t think you can bank on winning the special teams battle by 15 going forward.
Yeah I am amazed they made it past the 1st round but couldn't jump on that bandwagon if i wanted to with the defensive lapses.
Hard to find teams to cheer for. Would have been cool to see Winnipeg pull off a miracle. One day.
Might just cheer for Colorado and Makar.
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https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/columnists/bell-calgary-flames-cant-blame-darryl-sutter
https://thehockeywriters.com/flames-players-quickly-proving-sutter-wasnt-problem/
Prolly nothing
https://theleafsnation.com/news/with-without-miracle-brad-treliving-has-interesting-offseason-ahead
Prolly nothing
Brad Treliving - GM Tracking & Evaluation
in Flames Talk
Posted
it Does sound a lot like BT, no arguements here
https://torontosun.com/sports/hockey/nhl/toronto-maple-leafs/leafs-never-on-verge-of-winning-anything-in-shanahan-years