conundrumed
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Posts posted by conundrumed
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24 minutes ago, jjgallow said:
I don't understand why we do Anything with goalies lol.
ON A RARE POSITIVE NOTE from me on this lol... Gillies is Killing it in the AHL.
Back to the complaints....this further confounds the issues of why we signed 3 billion other goalies to play with him down there.
IMHO, he could be up here much sooner than we all think. But if we can't get our act together with defence, it won't be enough.
Pretty much all of your thoughts here I thought were general understandings on your views?
This is just reiteration. lol
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4 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:
nope, it was pretty much Kipper or bust at that time.. even i said all along we played him way too much ..
all i can say with certainty at the moment is that Elliot's contract extension talks are on hold
And it's probably fair to say Hartley had what he had in net. Hiller did work for a year, but the position was in turmoil during his tenure.
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5 hours ago, cross16 said:
So I question both the goaltending and defence but everyone else wants to give Elliott a pass and I'm the homer?
interesting...
Cross, I just take issue that any of the Carolina goals he, "should have had".
Your example of the Teravainen goal?? How in boarding does any NHLer not score that one with a couple of whacks at it, right on top of X Goalie?
He played it poorly in super-slo-mo, maybe. But damn. Call him out with that example?
And a breakaway?
I ain't buying. I saw a superb goalie in preseason, I'm sure you did too.
Last guy I'd blame.
Look at our forward roster.
Not good enough.
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41 minutes ago, cross16 said:
And don't get me wrong i do think the flames are going to need to improve their D core. They need more 4-6 and that will be a priority this season and off season IMO. This isn't a "finished" D core by any means but I do think it's better than they've shown.
I agree to a point, the point being looking at Hickey, Mattson, Kylington etc.
I hope we can grow from within.
I'd hate Wideman's $5 plus to turn into another paying gig for a dman.
For all of the moaning and complaining about D and G.
Why don't we talk about the lobotomy we call our forward ranks?
As I said before, if Stajan is your best player, you're likely 1-4, and 1-5 is coming up fast.
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6 hours ago, cross16 said:
It is getting pretty annoying that you cannot have a disucssion about goaltending on this boards. As soon as you criticize the goaltending everyone assumes that means you are letting the players off the hook.
Stop being a homer then.
It's okay Brouwer totally fumbles an easy puck turnover in the O zone, Carolina comes back with speed, Jokipakka's only 4 feet from his goalie, Teravainan (ie not Stajan) gets behind him for a pass AND a couple of whacks, and that's Elliot's fault?
That was YOUR example of one he should've had and he was etc, etc.
Listen to Loubourdias much?
Great. Sink with him.
Was Hartley fired, in part, because of his handling of Bennett?
Isn't looking so bad so far...
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31 minutes ago, cross16 said:
No one is saying that. I bothers me everyone tries to be so black and white on this issue. Yes the team is struglging and not playing well but so is Elliott. Why does it have to be one of the others fault?
Early in the season a team is likely going to struggle and you need your goalie to be there for you. Johnson, behind the same team I might add, has been just fine, so why is it Elliott can't get any blame?
he was way out of place on the Tervaninen goal and basicaly gave him that side of the net and he's really not playing breakaways well at all. He goes down on his belly so quick and everyone is beating him on the same move, backhand over the glove. Those are the type of big saves you need when you are struggling and its the goalie he wants to be.
??
Teravainen got behind our D and a pass got through to him. Elliot stopped the first and Tera popped his own rebound in.
He got a piece of the breakaway and it went post and in.
It's easy-peasy to get behind our D way too often.
Maybe occasionally the team can help the goalie out too.
And great job taking 2 penalties late when we need a goal.
= one hot mess, invent all of the positives you like, it still comes down to W-L.
Can't score, can't skate, fight the puck all game every game...
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1 minute ago, cross16 said:
Pretty simple, he isn't playing very well.
Not his fault by any means, but to say he isn't part of the problem isn't correct either. Early in the season you are going to have issues and you need your goalie to be there, Elliott hasn't been.
Who has? Stajan and Frolik is about it for me.
We used to run around confused in the D zone, now we stand around confused.
So our goalies have to carry a GA of 1 for us to win?
We have more than issues, but here we are pointing out goaltending as the biggest again.
Which goal was Elliot's fault again?
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How is it we get on Elliot?
The whole team looks like uninspired, confused garbage.
When Stajan is consistently our best player, we're probably 1-4 and sinking.
Why wait until the last 24 minutes to start skating?
The PP isn't just bad anymore, it's laughable.
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Good time for Kulak to be the best option and win that seat outright and go from there.
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Does Wideman stay in the pressbox tomorrow?
I doubt they would do 3 in a row...
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7 minutes ago, jjgallow said:
I would regrettably agree.
I know we all have slightly different thoughts on Engelland. But, if we take a step back and look at this statement for what it is......and I Do agree with it 3 games in...
Oh Wow. The Flames are displaying bigger issues than the future of Engelland, for that statement to hold any water.
I get what you're saying I think maybe after 4 reads. lol
Or I make it up, either way.
The highlight of last night was Wideman in the press box.
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1 hour ago, travel_dude said:
The need for a goalie coach this season is lessened, due to having two vets. Before we bring in Gillies or Parsons, I would look to upgrade the coaching position.
I completely disagree. The lunatics can move the thinking in the asylum, but they can't run it.
It's precarious at best.
Brian Sutter said it best on 960 I think Thursday night, regarding players, but same concept, "check your wallet and ego at the door".
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1 minute ago, Carty said:
I was coached as a goalie at different levels... The experience ranged from excellent where I learned a lot to idiots that I tuned out... But all of this is irrelevant to my opinion that the Flames could and should be looking for an upgrade for Sigalet... I'll say it again, you can't teach what you don't know...
As you have also been coached as a goalie and most likely coached in different sports as well, I am surprised that you don't place more value on what a good coach can bring to the table... If the Flames thought a good fit as a coach didn't matter, Hartley and the other assistant coaches except Gelinas would still have a job... I just question why Sigalet still does...
Is the goalie coach a GM thing or a Head Coach thing though?
And don't overrate me. I'd say 1 in maybe 5 coaches I've had, in any sport, I respected.
Dumb adults have a means of destroying our kids, that's all I have to say about that.
I had an old, ex-NHL, miserable crew cut military mentality goalie coach for a summer that I hated.
A year later, I found myself thanking him profusely.
Every goalie is different.
The Flames should have already addressed what they want a goalie coach to accomplish.
If they're adrift, I'm not sure.
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11 minutes ago, Carty said:
Sigalet had a mediocre junior career and literally has only 1 minute of NHL goal tending experience... You can't teach what you don't know...
From all accounts he sounds like a good guy, but that doesn't mean I want to see him continue as a goalie coach for the Flames...
So here's my ask, and I don't mean it as anything else, superiority, conviction, sarcasm blahblahblah.
If you're drafted at 18, I'd surmise you're a cognizant guy re: puck tracking, athleticism, positioning, or you wouldn't be drafted. Head space..you're interviewed, you're practicing with the team.
Is it not the head coach's responsibility now? Or is the goalie coach not accountable to him?
When is the goalie himself accountable?
I get, "things to work on", but I don't get why coaching is responsible when a guy maybe just isn't sharp enough but the staff decision is completely out of his hands.
Not sure if you were coached at goalie Carty, but I did camps in the summer and team coaches.
It's like reading through the fog and who you trust.
It could be a boon for Sigalet to have an Elliot around to tell him to go boarding himself. lol
You want your goalies full of attitude. lol
Or at least I do.
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4 minutes ago, jjgallow said:
Yeah, we aren't just talking about one AHL goalie. There were more than the one "that shall not be named", and he had them Very young, lots of time to work with them. His answer to that, in most cases, was to recommend shipping them off young. Then do nothing when their level of performance brought them back to him, and the position/style didn't fit the mold.
Which goalies did we have that are excelling in the NHL?
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10 minutes ago, robrob74 said:
Elliott found similar success in a very good defensive system in St Louis, and we think we are getting a very good goalie.
I saw his preseason games. He's positionally sound. Square to the shooter, absorbs puck, bringing back the pokecheck! lol
I don't mean he can't lose 6-1, just that all you can ask for is solid mechanics. He has that, but it doesn't make us much better if we don't get better elsewhere.
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8 minutes ago, Carty said:
If you do not understand what is wrong with this statement already after looking at it again, it would take enough space to write a book to explain why...
I disagree. You don't make it this far by having a ton of positional issues. You can hone reflex, etc. But if you got this far and coaching ruined you, all I can think is, "Really"?
That's my defense of Sigalet and my hairy eyeball on management.
A goalie coach isn't overcoming what he has to work with.
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16 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said:
yes you can.
DD in Edmonton comes to mind right off. Add to that the organization(Mctavish in particular) showed no confidence in him. They ended up getting rid of their goalie coach after but the damage was done.
It was long after his departure from Edmonton, before he was able to find a proper goalie coach who instilled the confidence in him and his abilities again.
He found success in an incredibly defensive minded system. Like Mike Smith and every goalie that lands in Phoenix. Is that Burke, or team play?
Minny is really no different.
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28 minutes ago, jjgallow said:
Some common ground....this is uncomfortable
"You had one job" comes to mind. It is somewhat of a paradox that with so many goalies coming out of our AHL system being deemed NHL failures lately, the only person who had the sole job of developing those same players in the AHL since 2011, gets a promotion out of it to the NHL.
Followed by the subsequent failure of Every NHL goalie, including proven ones, once it was his sole job to develop and maintain their performance.
Amazing story, amazing person. But ......
One question.
Who is accountable, the goalie or their coach?
For me, blaming the goalie coach is easily secondary to the goalie's attributes and headspace.
If I'm a goalie coach, I can teach flexibility and angles, I can't teach a style you don't play, reflexes etc.
I can't turn Wideman into a goalie and I can't teach a good goalie to be a bad one.
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22 hours ago, jjgallow said:
You missed Giguere among others. That's really where the arguement should start (or Trevor Kidd). And it ends with Brossoit. Say what you want, the Flames clearly want that trade back. I could disagree with you on those other points but the bottom line is that we DO have a history of mishandling goaltenders and Everyone on this forum knows it. That's all I'm saying. Anyone who rejoices 0 games in over us parting ways with a young goalie, either does not know or chooses to ignore our track record (and apparently the preseason too).
I was never terribly down on Ortio, but he was coming off of a 1 way. Is he getting another this year? Not on your life.
Doesn't hurt to keep the position liquid until you find a final answer.
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Everyone looks at the, "he got this guy, good, he got this guy, bad".
From an organizational standpoint, though, he has it going on.
I believe we have kicked the crap out of most everyone but Phoenix at the draft table in his reign.
Gaudreau-Mony
Tkachuk-Bennett
In a yr, that looks like a whole lot of trouble, and "heavier" team to me.
The 2nd pairing is going to be mayhem, I have little doubt.
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Ortio just signed in Sweden. Wish him well, still get the feeling he has some untapped potential there. Man..we really don't have luck drafting goalies!
With Gillies, MacDonald and now Parsons, I think our luck is about to change.
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You've also gotta remember jj, it's all sown in very tightly, even Wideman, you can't just wave your hand in the air and be done with it.
Each move comes at a cost, getting Brouwer and getting better answers at G are busy brushstrokes that maybe you can't make if you're shopping to improve your most expensive in the league D.
My problem with the D is that it's too expensive.
When I hear Brouwer at a little too long for too much I can't help but laugh. We spend 1/2 the cap on D.
Now that it's not just Bennett, but Tkachuk also coming soon, I love the Frolik and Brouwer signings as our vets.
But getting back to D, the costs will drop at the end of the year.
And there is a flip side in that Wideman's playing for a contract, so that might mean something.
But shifting $9mil out of D and into forwards is something I'm really looking forward to.
Better guys up front will help the GF-GA ratio.
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The Flames have a top 3 of Giordano, Brodie, and Hamilton.
They have two, if Giordano stays healthy and competitive. Hamilton is not top 3. He has limitless potential if developed properly. It's different.
They have strong depth in Jokipakka, Wideman, and Engelland.
Are you messing with me?
They have NHL ready kids like Kulak and Wotherspoon.
Seriously, are you messing with me? They do have Some D prospects worth discussing and neither of these two are them.
Sure the goal against was poor last year.
No, it wasn't poor. Poor, is below the league average. We were last in the league.
Last. In. The League.
Poor is not an acceptable choice of words to describe that.
But that isn't the type of D you get all panicked about. That is a very strong line up thst most were putting forward as one of the best in the NHL a season ago.
Last in the league. And we kept it basically the same. We have some offensive defencemen, yes. That isn't the issue or even relevant, really.
The Flames have a new coaching staff and two new goalies. Suggesting there wasn't an upgrade or suggesting we are doomed to another season of a poor GA is just wrong imo.
The suggestion was that we didn't upgrade our D. The D position. Tell me that's wrong. If you can't do that, it's because you're honest. If you can, it's because you're twisting things. Like the original statement.
I would like to see a bit of a tweak in the bottom 3. But between contracts and the draft lottery that may not be in the cards, and thst certainly isn't the end of the world.
Nothing is the end of the world, true.
There's a lot of validity in jj's comment's, call it the Gallow's Poll lol.
We are, literally, the worst D in the league.
Who gives up 260 in a year? 30th in the league. 30th. It's a 30 team league.
We just did, that's who.
So we can patsy around this "little problem" like it ain't a big deal. But it's a huge deal.
If our goalies are always so bad, why can't our D pick up the play?
Again. Team problem, and a big one.
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Goaltending
in Flames Talk
Posted
A little early for any of that talk.