cross16

If I had to guess, Mang and his camp are in the 6 range. Flames likely more like 5 to 5.5. Pure guess though. I think 5.5-6 is around where this likely needs to be on a long term deal.

Article from Winters comments around Mangiapane today. Coles notes, Mang is interested in staying, has made a multi year offer/discussion with the Flames and him staying is not contingent on Tkachuk. https://dailyhive.com/calgary/mangiapane-pitch-flames-long-term-deal

As I've said before I don't think the Flames ever rebuilt, they re tooled. There was never a design that they would be bad for multiple years. But they were doomed from the start by letting Feaster run it. More picks, whatever it wouldn't have mattered they just had a bad GM in charge. Got unlucky with some softer drafts years but you can't have a bad GM in charge on hope to succeed in a rebuild.

Sounds like Mangiapane is interested in a longer term deal with the Flames. Yes this is Eric Francis but it's his agent putting this out there.

This capture my point though. It's not like there are FA deals that are jumping to mind saying "Flames should have done that". I'm not debating either that their is work to be done, you'd be pretty silly not to make that point. I just think that just because it's quiet it's not a signal that they were not prepared or that there was no Plan B. Plan B when a player like Gaudreau leaves just gets very complicated and to me that is why you are not hearing from the Flames right now. They are working through a plan and we'll see what it is. Could be good, could be terrible but we'll find out either way. I just don't see a problem with how they've gone about business so far.

It comes down to a UFA vs RFA. If you have a high profile UFA waiting is dangerous but it generally is not with an RFA. If you have the time you should use it IMO and it's been a successful strategy for them, as it has most the league. I get that the situation with Gaudreau is causing people to rethink that and while fair on an emotional level I think in the bigger picture the strategy will works. There are several red herring like factors that contributed to Gaudreau and it should also be pointed out the Flames did reach a verbal agreement with Gaudreau (by all accounts) then they got a different answer. It doesn't change the fact that small market teams can't let players like Gaudreau walk for nothing but that was true 2 weeks ago and a year ago. I don't think it's time to question the Flames negotiation strategy because i'm not sure leaving this to this 11th hour is what they did wrong here.

Giordano was extended a full year before he became a UFA.

I agree on the last point. Everyone is assuming that because Tkachuk is all business he will leave Calgary but I would argue the opposite. If he is all about business then resigning here is probably his best bet. He's coming off a career year and is in a situation where his organization just lost their best player and is sitting on a bunch of cap space. Really the only reasons to leave are that he wants to, or he's not a believer the Flames will win the near future. But business wise I think this is his best situation. I am in agreement that the Flames cannot let Tkachuk go like Gaudraeu did I just don't' agree that this Friday has as much of an impact to his trade value.

I am aware, but even with a signed QO it's not like extension talks stop. For me this comes down to leverage and right now Tkachuk has the leverage and i'm not sure a team acquiring him now vs next week gains any so why would the trade value change so much.

I don't really understand this logic though, What was Plan B suppose to be? What is Plan B when an elite offensive talent walks for nothing and there really isn't anything on the FA market that can come close to replacing him? What did people expect or want plan B to be? Once Forsberg signed in Nashville I think your Plan B was gone as that was really the only talent available that could have realistically had a chance to "replace" what you lost in Gaudreau and fit the age range. Since then what deals are they missing out on? Aside from the rebuild or not decision (which I am very confident is not up to Treliving) your plan now is you got to keep what you have. External upgrades are secondary at this point until you get those guys locked up. That becomes the plan.

I'm not sure I'm agreeing with the logic here as any team trying to acquire Tkachuk inherits the same situation as the Flames. The only advantage you have to acquiring him now, vs post Friday is a few days worth to take to him about an extension but how does that increase your leverage? Tkachuk can still do the same thing to the new team he could do to the Flames "pay me this or i'm taking my QO" and i'm not sure a few days changes that negotiation strategy. For me i'm not that concerned about Friday. It gives you some clarity sure but I think the Flames can still work both angels with Tkachuk throughout the summer. My deadline would be camp, you cannot let Tkachuk make it to camp with just the 1 year offer signed IMO.

While correct I would say this is extremely unlikely to happen.

Tkachuk is a rare case where it likely doesn’t make sense to file for arbitration. I don’t see him getting a 1 year deal that beats his QO and filing takes away his ability to sign an OS. The flames would actually likely benefit more from arbitration if they could push for a 2 year deal. i won’t be surprised if he doesn’t file.

he can still accept his QO until the hearing as he can any offer. If he files it also makes him ineligible to sign an offer sheet. filing for arbitration is mostly procedural. It changes very little in terms of the negotiation so I would expect all of the Flames RFAs with arb rights to file. If Tkachuk doesn’t file it would likely be because they want to keep an offer sheet option open.

On Tim and Friends today. Says he has something special coming for Calgary and Calgary fans. Still not a great interview but much better than the one he gave yesterday

it can work too. Charles Woodson signed with the Packers because they were the only team to give him a good offer. Originally hated it but wound up staying and won a Super Bowl. I just find it interesting when it does.

In my mind this was always why he was waiting (well that and it's a tactic his agent uses) he wanted to see if Philly would open up cap space. What I don't get, and where I question the agent, is when he said no the Flames he had to know Philly was out. I mean the rumors all day on Tuesday were Philly wasn't going to pay the price to move JVR and were then out on Gaudreau. What did they see that we didn't? Columbus felt more like plan D, almost a we better take this otherwise were not going to get a long term deal type of pivot. It was pretty shocking how little he knew about Columbus in the interviews i've watched. Just so weird you'd commit to a place for that long where you probably don't really want to go to. Not the first athlete who has done it but it's just weird to me. I also found it weird that the agent sent a message to Friedman within minutes of the news breaking that Gaudreau was out. The "Flames did all they could" tweet is weird to send out so fast from an agent.

I will be very interested to see in the coming weeks/months if he and Lewis Gross part ways. It's probably because i'm closer to this one that others but i'm not sure I have seen a more botched free agent process than this one. I get Gaudreau wouldn't be prepared for this but what about Gross? and if Gross was doing his job did Johnny just not listen? I have a hard time believing him that he wants to be in Columbus for the next 7 years. It's just very, very bizarre. Be interesting to see if he stays there for the full 7.

That wouldn't make much sense to me. Kerfoot isn't a great fit and is pretty expensive for what he brings. I get options are limited but i'm not seeing Kerfoot/Holl helping much.

See and for me if all your getting is an Iginla like return I think what they did is fine. I'll take a record breaking season and a trip to the 2nd round over a late first and 2 nothing prospects any day of the week. Now if a lottery team was calling that's different. Like i'm saying, move him 2 years ago and perhaps it's multiple picks, young players etc then i'm listening. That's the type of asset management you need, but I also acknowledge there are other factors in that.

A lot of offence can be created by D. A few skills that are lacking from the Flames D core is carrying the puck in transition, getting good quality pucks to the net and their PP lacks a true QB. Klingberg is high end in all of those categories so he checks quite a few boxes. He isn't very good in his own zone but the Flames could pair him with Tanev or Zadorov to mitigate that. Having said that i'm pretty skeptical there is something here. Coleman is from Texas so not surprising he'd follow a Star and the rest are Swedes. I'm not sure the Flames can afford to pay him what he might get so i'm skeptical there is much to this, even though I do think the Flames want to get a puck moving dman. As much as we focus on Johnny's offence and the hole he left there what should be more concerning to the Flames is his transition ability. Now he's one of the best in the league at it so you aren't going to replace it, but I'm more concerned about their transition ability and rush offence he is leaving behind than I am the points/goals.

Wasn't expecting him back but Jankrok going to the Leafs

So that is the rub. Your only eligible for an extension going into the last year of your deal so it was the summer of 20-21 where I think the decision had to be made or 2 years prior to him being a UFA. As Heartbreaker pointed out at the time he was coming off back to back not great seasons and a not so great playoffs against Dallas. Tough to know what the value was and honesty the fact that Gaudreau didn't generate this huge market in UFA kind of tells me i'm not sure his value int he league is as high as it was to us as fans. I still think the conversation and decision should have been made but I also think it's fair to question how much he would have netted in return. As much as I think you cannot let assets walk for free Heartbreaker makes a good point that you just can't trade all your elite pieces too. So as much as we, and myself include, make it seem easy it's much more complex than we think and it's possible they had a meeting and were assured he was interested then he got married, soon to be dad and things changed. Which is the problem of the timeline of how the decision had to come at least 2 years prior to him actually being a UFA.

Another RFA deadline to keep in mind. all 3 of the Flames primary RFAs have arb rights as to a few of their minor league players (Phillips mainly)

Yes he can.