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Then why is the answer to always put him back with Brodie? I disagree with the bolded as well. Sure a "respectable" D maybe but not a very good D. I dont' think Jokipakka-Hamilton is that solid a 2nd pairing and its certainly not a pairing I would wnat to lean on for 20-22 mins a night every night. I don't beleive Jokipakka is a solid enough dman in to be able to play those type of minutes and cover up for Hamilton. Not to mention I think they would get murded when it comes to line matchups. Gulutzan is really limited in what he can do but hopefully the Flames can rebuild their d in the offeseason and commit to some better pairings. IMO, they'll never get to where they want to be if they insist on keeping Gio-Brodie together and certainly won't if Gio can't prove he is a good NHL dman away from Brodie.

IMO the Flames do not have the depth, and likely won't have the depth anytime soon, to stack a pairing with Gio - Brodie. Combine that problem with that they then don't have a partner for Hamilton, you will say Jokipakka but he is not a top 4 dman in my eyes, so if you want a strong D core I think you need to split them up. 11 games is too soon to say they cannot accomplish that but thats why I think Gulutzan is adament on doing it becuase the overal team is likely going to be better for it. I'm just tired of hearing how Gulutzan is messing with Brodie-Gio like its his fault. Gio needs to play better and we should not have to protect Gio like the Flmaes have done the last 2 years. The Flames also need to support Hamilton much more than they have since they acquired him. Edit: And also to the whole "why break up a good thing" argument. Last yearFlames were a lottery pick team, worst GAA, Worst GA and bottom 5 in most defensive categories so why "good thing" do they really have going for them? Good team defence needs more than 1 good pairing.

I think its time to stop making excuses or trying to appease Gio. The guy is their captain and highest paid player and he needs to step up and play like it. Everytime he gets moved away from Brodie, or Brodie has been hurt, he suddenly becomes barely average and then everytime the answer is to just move them back togeher. Brodie has been fine away from him its time for Gio to step up and stop having excuses provided for him. If Gio can't function with Brodie then I agree with what others have said that the Flames have to shop him. Flames are in trouble this year and over the next few years if we are going to be foreced to always have Brodie and Gio paired together because Gio can't seem to function without him.

I agree. I don't mind a forward getting down to block a shot but D should be boxing out and getting out the way. The vast majority of point shots a goalie sees he will stop and I think when you heavily block shots you actually end up creating more scoring opporutnities due to boucnes that are tougher on goalies to recover from. You need to block shots, but block them strategically IMO

Not sure how describing how I think the defence playing better is helping the goalies is focussing on the goalies but to each his own i guess. Please do add the more "pertinent" points to the discussion. The comment was in reference to the Flames being outshot recently and the reason for that. Did not suggest that they should care less or more about shots against, jsut that they are getting outshot more because of what they arn't generating and less becuae they are giving up too many shots against.

I don't agree with that. Has Elliott been solid, for sure but has he really stolen a game? Last night did he really make that great a save that kept the Flames in it? I don't think so, he is making the saves you are suppose to make and really outside the toe save in Chicago hasn't really had to make that great a save to keep the Flames in the game.The Flames are doing a really good job of limiting chances in high scoring areas and keeping most of the danger to the outside. Not perfect by any means but doing a solid job of it IMO. Elliott's job hasn't really been too tough lately. they are getting outshot becuase they arn't transitioniong from D to O very well and they turn the puck over too much in the neutral zone. Their shots for is the problem, not their shots against.

How is it not working? Flames have been great defensivly and are 3-1 since the current defence pairings have been put together. Is everyone playing at 100%? No but to say it isn't working I think is unfair. Flames are defending quite well right now IMO and that should be the focus.

Hamilton wasn't playing well in his own zone and hasn't been guilty of too many mental gaffs. I don't think Gulutzan trusts him but he does Engelland who IMO has played well defensively. When you are trying to rebuild a teams defense you need to ride guys you trust. I fully expect Hamiltons minutes to increase as the season goes.

That's the point though. If they are playing like top 4 dman then maybe you get more but then can you afford to lose them? Not IMO. If they are playing at a bottom pairing level they really arn't worth anything and I dont' think Treliving is going to value a 3rd round pick more than having Engelland/Wideman on the team for a potetnial playoff run, especially Engelland. The only way these guys get moved IMO is if they fall off the radar to the point where they are constantly in the press box and Treliving can afford to give them up but I also don't suspect that is going to happen. This isn't a deep D core. I get we'll have to see what happens between now and then but if the Flames are in it I don't suspect you will see them making any "selling" type moves. Glencross was a pretty rare occasion IMO.

Really depends on whether other people can step up. Right now Engelland and Wideman are top 4 blueliners for this club and IMO there is no way Treliving trades a top 4 blueliner on a team that has a chance to compete for the playoffs. I get he traded Glencross and we can discuss that, but its significantly easier to trade a 3rd line forwrad (which Glencross was at the time) on a playoff bound team then it is a top 4 blueliner or even a top 6 blueliner. Not to mention, much easier to trade someone when a club overpays, not so sure clubs are going to be overpaying for Engelland and Wideman. I think the chances they get dealt at the TDL are very small if the Flames are in it.

I dont' think the original plan was to run with 8 day but I think Kulak forced their hand. I thikn he made the team out of camp and its tough to send a guy like that down who has done everything you've asked, especially when you try and stress as an organization that there is opporunity. I get the answer would be to either not sign Grossman or to send Gossman down but keep in mind Grossman is the only D that has a history in Gulutzan (excluding Engelland who I don't count becuase that was forever ago). I think any coach wants to trust in his D and the Flames play in the preaseason and first few games sure wouldn't give him alot of faith or trust. I think the Flames wanted a Vet LH D and I think Gulutzan appreciates having someone he knows and can trust while he develops trust in others. Especially considering how much he stressed that they had to get better in the goals against department. I'l be surprised if they carry 8 dman the whole season but for now I think it makes alot of sense.

Really like that Klimchuk's offence is showing up. He's a really talented kid that is he can stay healthy I thikn will have a big year down in the A. Underrated guy, mostly becuase he's been so banged up the last few years.

That play was as much Brouwer's fault. wasn't a good pass, but it was equally as bad a job at trying to receive it so Engelland should not take full blame. 2 vets can't make a play like that. I thought Engelland was solid. Did a nice job upping his physical game which i thought helped slow down the Hawks forecheck and minimize any pressure to the inside. up until the last min of the game Elliott wasn't really foreced into any big saves because most of the shots were coming from outside the high danger areas.2nd goal was a bad bounce so not really sure why we are trying to assume blame there. Stuff like that happens. Elliott was solid, but I do think the team deserves alot of credit. Really minimized the high quality chances against and allowed Elliott to just play.

At last with Klimchuk, he has been hurt so while that is not an "excuse" its a reason. I think Klimchuk has turned a corner personally and is in line for a good season in the A so too soon to write him off, he just needs to stay healthy. Also there isn't anyone behind him yet that is a full time nhler. Some have played games but not very many. Porier on the other hand i'm no impressed with either. He has plateaued in the A and this year's camp he came in and showed no improvment and generally seemed disinterested in the process. He doens't have enough raw skill to play with a lack of desire and that's what i've seen from him. He is becoming a really dissapointing pick and just makes that Jbow trade so, so horrible. Feaster and co never really nailed that draft, not IMO anyway. The two picks i went WTF over were Porier and Kanzig and both basically look like lost causes. Really wish they had not intrusted Feaster with the early stages of the rebuild. I really think the Flames are 1-2 years behind where you would ideally want to be right now because of Feaster.

Depends on what side of the argument you fall on but for me I find that most people overrate the impact of Chemistry. You shouldn't need chemistry to operate at a basic level, you need chemistry to maximize your potential, but not for basics. And the obvious other questions, is why stick with something that isn't working? IMO, for the betterment of the team Brodie and gio need to be split up. so yes when you split up the way its been the last few seasons its probably going to take a little while to find something that sticks. Part of the reason I thikn the Flames should have cut down sooner in training camp and spent more time working on this, rather then seeing who was going to make the team.

At the same time though, how did it work the other way? I don't understand the criticism with Gulutzan moving around defensive pairings. People are acting like he is breaking up something that worked when in reality what he is doing is trying to find somethign that DOES work. Flames havn't found it for 2 years and Hartley keep hamering a square peg into a round hole, I give Gulutzan credit for not sticking with status quo. On Hamilton, wI think where I will agree with People is I do think Hamilton is going to be the the type of dman you are likely going to have to live with some mistakes. Where I disagree with that he won't get any better, I think he will for sure, and 2 his upside warrants living with a few mistakes.

NOt so sure. Takes two sides and I highly doubt they are going to be anxious to jump into contract talks and take less becuase of how he has started. They'll have confidence he can bounce back. I agree with Peeps, they should wait. I've been hard on Elliott and still don't thikn he is playing well but I also believe he will settle in but I think you wait for that to happen before you starting extended someone. There is a very real change that the Flames, and most people I might add, overlooked how important playing behind HItch was to Elliott's success. Can't make that decision yet, but don't sign a bad deal until you are sure.

This is where the critique against Hamilton can get frustrating. When he was 23, Giordano was in the AHL and a call up. Wasn't a full time NHLer until 27. At 23 Brodie was about to start his first full NHL season. At 23, Dougie Hamilton already has 2 40 plus point seasons under his belt. "starting so far back" doesn't make any sense. Sure Gio/Brodie were and are better at managing the puck but Hamilton is also much better at moving the puck and putting up points, but also to say that he can't improve isn't correct. At 23, Hamilton is already far better than what both Gio and Brodie were.

in 2012 I would have stayed where they were and taken Cody Ceci so I got rt where you are coming from. Having said that pretty easy to go back I need time and amend history to fit a narrative. Jankowski still has a chance, and IMO a likely one, of being as good or better than Ceci or Matta. IMO Matta is pretty overrated and got exposed in the playoffs. I think it's silly that people actually believe that the Flames took jankowski becuae they wanted a centre for iggy. I man feaster wasn't a great GM but he was much better than that. Either way I'm done talking about the 2012 draft. I think jankowski was a solid pick and IMO will be as good a pro as almost anyone else they could have taken with that spot. Sure would a dman be better but you at he time a centre was a great and sound pick. No way for them to know that Monahan or Bennett was as going to be in the organization.

JJ you are really overestimating how easy it would be to acquire a top 10 pick. In the last 10 drafts a team has traded into the top 10 1 time using picks. 5 other teams managed to trade into the top 10 with players but in order to do that it was the likes of Phil Kessell, Bobby Ryan, Cody Schneider, Jordan stall and Jeff Carter that were traded and even then in the case of Kessell, Ryan the teams gave up first rounders not knowing they would be top ten picks. Igninlas value was not as high as the those guys so I don't think he would have a top ten pick. Keep in mind typically rebuilding or struggle teams hold top ten picks and they are going to give up first rounders for thirty plus players. I fully agree they didn't get enough for iginla and it set the rebuild back by waiting to trade him but let's not overrate the impact it out would have had today. Top ten picks have become extremely difficult to acquire. The only player they dealt I need the last ten years who arguably should have returned a pick that high is phaneuf.

Gilles hasn't been played 11 games yet on the Ahl. Total. Talk of him being up here is extremely premature. I'd much rather see him spend at least the next two season in the A. He's got lots to prove and no reason to be rushed.

I hope for internal growth too but you are waiting 2-3 years for most of those guys and I'm not waiting that long. Could be bottom pairing options but not top 4. I think the forward are not as bad as you think. Need a bit of work but let's wait till Johnny, Mony, and Bennett settle down before we rip too hard on the forward. Talent is there but it's very green. Talent really isn't there on D.

And don't get me wrong i do think the flames are going to need to improve their D core. They need more 4-6 and that will be a priority this season and off season IMO. This isn't a "finished" D core by any means but I do think it's better than they've shown.

So you don't put Brodie in that same category as those guys? I would highly disagree with that and most of the new metrics will back me up. Brodie is a top end shutdown dman IMO. I think your reading too much into 1 game and forgetting how good Brodie and Gio have been the last few years. I dont disagre with adding to the D core and the flames do need a more stable top 4 option. I'd love Trouba but I would never trade Gio, Brodie or Hamilton for him.

I don't' agree with the notion the Flames lack a "shutdown" dman. Did the Pens have one? Do the Blackhawks really have one? IMO Brodie and Gio are as good a shutdown pairing you will find, and Brodie is IMO a shutdown dman. I think the idea of a Robyn Regher like Shutdown dman is dead in this league. That being said, the Flames lack Depth and D and while I think they have a very good top 3, their bottom 3 isn't that great. That isn't new and isn't a secret. I think Jokipakka is a decent dman but I dont' think he is a top 4 and right now you are playing him in a role he isn't suited for IMO. Doesn't help that you have have paired him with a still learning Hamilton. Then when your depth is guys like Grossman, Kulak and Wideman, that just isn't very good. Most of the mistakes I'm seeing so far from the D are being made by their depth, not guys like Brodie/Gio etc. Hamilton is still making errors but I also think the Flames havn't done him any favors by pairing him with a good solid veteran.They need to improve their depth but unfortunately the salary cap and carrying someone like Wideman really prohibited that in the offseason. I think this season/coming offseason a priority is going to be to find a LH shot top 4 dman they can pair with Hamilton. I know they wanted Hamhuis, but missed out on him.