Carty

If Vegas takes a couple of extra goaltenders, they are still going to keep the best 2... If they take extras and create a need for teams to get another backup, there will be added competition for the Flames to get the best upgrade possible... The Flames are not in a position where gambling on goaltending for another season is a good plan... The Flames are in a position to make a deal for the best they can possibly get and protect them from the draft... I'll be PO'ed and more than a little disappointed if they miss the boat and end up settling for average goaltending (or worse)... But at this point, I still have faith that Treliving is quietly working on making a deal for the best upgrade(s) possible...

I edited and added this to better explain my train of thought... If they wait too long they run the risk of missing out on the best choice(s) for a goaltending upgrade if other teams cut a deal first...

I would not expect either Burke or Treliving to say anything different publicly... They don't need to prematurely start a bidding war with another team that needs to upgrade their goaltending... They will hold their cards close... That said, if that in fact turns out to be their approach, I will be both surprised and disappointed... Two of the best potential solutions in net are already gone... I agree with your comment travel_dude, for the Flames to wait until after expansion just doesn't make any sense.... Not just because of the draft, but due to competition from the other teams that also want to upgrade...

Elliott is 2 years older than Bishop, and 4 years older than Darling... Johnson is also older than both Bishop and Darling... Treliving went with cheaper options for goaltenders last season, and we all know how that turned out... If he fails to deliver on an upgrade for a starter, it won't matter what happens for upgrades at RW, D etc... The team will be handicapped from the start of the season... They need a goaltender that can inspire confidence on a consistent basis... Every goaltender can let in the occasional softy or have a bad game once in a while, but the good ones can snap back after a bad goal or come back the next game with a solid performance like Kipper did and not fall into an extended streak of meltdowns...

Just to clarify due to the way you quoted me without the "By the same logic Father de Souza presents in his article" to preface the quote, I'm not suggesting that public transit should be free, just equating it to what Father de Souza said about how there should be free tickets to a new arena... Sure transit fares go back into city coffers, but it's a drop in the bucket and the cost for the system is still almost entirely subsidized by taxpayers, many of which will never use it... It would take a long, long time to even put a small dent in the 10 billion cost of the Green Line by itself, and the same goes for the rest of the public transit system... The arena and transit are just different parts of city infrastructure... Nenshi wants to make an Olympic bid as part of his 'legacy', and he's going to need a new arena,,, Sure the Flames would of course use it, and also help pay for it, and it would also gets used for other cultural events...

By the same logic Father de Souza presents in his article, riders on tax payer funded buses and LRT's should get to ride for free, and that will never happen... Father de Souza likes to give opinions on a lot of subjects, and he gets paid from a number of different sources to do it... In the article he conveniently claims Calgary as his hometown, as he was born in Ontario and went through the school system in Calgary when his father moved there for work, and then he moved back to Ontario where he still lives... He has a nice song and dance about how it is wrong to take money from the poor and give it to the rich, but maybe he should also remember the one about how people that live in glass houses should not be throwing stones... I'll leave it at that... Huge amounts of taxpayer dollars are spent on the construction and maintenance of public transportation... My tax dollars go towards them, but I never use it... I don't complain about it, as it is part of the cities infrastructure... So is a new arena, and the same thing applies to it for taxpayers in general... The city of Calgary is about to spend close to 10 Billion freaking dollars on the Green Line alone, and half of that is additional cost and shortfall resulting from poor planning... Another way of looking at it is the entire cost of CalgaryNEXT is only about 20% of the amount of the overages on the Green Line and only about 10% of it's total cost... Everyone has their own opinion based on how they choose to look at it, and there are a number of possible angles...

Francis gives his opinion, and actually manages to make some good points... Also interesting to read the comments from Calgarian entrepreneur W. Brett Wilson who is 12% owner of the Preds... http://www.msn.com/en-ca/sports/news/nashville-is-showing-calgary-how-to-support-hockey-and-revitalize-a-city-build-a-new-arena/ar-BBBmh8I?li=AA54y7&ocid=spartandhp Nashville is showing Calgary how to support hockey and revitalize a city: Build a new arena NASHVILLE, Tenn. — How is it a city like Nashville is showing Calgary the right way to support hockey? How insulting to have an arena in a southern, non-traditional hockey market provide a better hockey experience for its fans and the city than a self-proclaimed hockey mecca. Nashville’s Bridgestone Arena generates far more money and civic pride than the Saddledome. It attracts the world’s best entertainers, which is something the Dome can’t do anymore. It’s a place for a city to rally around, gather, celebrate and reinvigorate. Take a good look-see at what’s going on in and around the Predators’ conference final series against the Anaheim Ducks — this is how it could be in Calgary. A city and an NHL hockey team working hand-in-hand to create infrastructure and experiences a world-class city such as Calgary should be privy to. Nashville’s got it right. Calgary’s got, well, nothing close. It’s not a knock on the Flames — it’s a shot at those in Calgary standing in the way of a new arena. Twenty-five years ago, it was different: the Saddledome was adequate and Nashville didn’t have an arena at all. In 1993, then-mayor Phil Bredesen decided Nashville needed a major facelift and would get one by way of a new arena. He didn’t have a NHL or NBA franchise as an anchor tenant, but he knew how vital is was to transforming his city. It turned out it kick-started everything. “Back then, Broadway was unsafe,” Nashville Predators chief executive officer Sean Henry said of the city’s now-famous strip of Honky Tonk bars. “You wouldn’t be caught dead there. The mayor had vision. He said ‘we’ll build an arena there’ and people mocked him. He said ‘it will anchor our entertainment district.’ Getting a team was secondary. People thought he was crazy. “A good leader does what he thinks is right, not always just what is popular. It can’t get done with a political leader who is scared.” And there it is, the crux of the problem facing Calgary. No wonder Bredesen had previously made hordes of money as an entrepreneur who went on to be Tennessee’s governor. Calgary has long lacked such vision. Two years after building the downtown rink for a shockingly reasonable US$144 million ($218 million in today’s dollars), the NHL awarded Nashville a franchise, kick-starting the revitalization. A modest rink of 17,113 seats for hockey, it has been constantly renovated and updated with state-of-the-art audio and video capabilities that help make it host to one of the NHL’s most spectacular game-night productions. They do that with the help of a $2 improvement tax on every ticket. The Flames and the city of Calgary can learn from all of it. “We enjoy the best public/private relationship in all of sports,” Henry said of the cooperation between the city, which owns the rink, and the team, which operates it as one of North America’s busiest venues. “This is a case study in how you build an arena and everything else falls into place. They pay for themselves. For every dollar you spend on it, three times comes back.” They don’t miss out on top concerts like Calgary does because the 37-year-old Saddledome is ill-designed, ill-equipped and out-dated. Nashville is a must-stop for every major tour and is one of the top tourist attractions in the U.S. It’s one of the fastest growing cities in America; almost 100 people move to the city daily. Dozens of cranes dot the city’s growing skyline, with 39 significant building projects in the works, including plenty of hotels. In a city with two main industries — health care and music — the main attraction is the few blocks around Bridgestone Arena, where modern-day patrons now don’t think twice about their safety while boot-scootin’ from bar to bar at night. Behind the rink is the $620-million U.S. Music City (Convention) Centre added four years ago to build off the success of the district. On Tuesday and Thursday this week, a wave of yellow-clad Predators fans swept into the area, tailgating, dancing and drinking before and after watching the team’s first appearance in the Western Conference final. A who’s-who of the country music scene descended on the celebrations, as they have all year long. On Tuesday, Keith Urban sang the anthem before enjoying the game with Nicole Kidman and their kids. On Thursday, it was Kelly Clarkson. Calgary entrepreneur and philanthropist W. Brett Wilson owns 12 per cent of the Predators and constantly marvels at how a city like Calgary can’t see the forest for the trees and enjoy similar benefits with a new rink that’s taking far too long to gain any traction. He not only empathizes with his fellow NHL owners throughout their struggle to get a new arena built, but is also saddened as a Calgarian. “I’m hugely disappointed in the city’s lack of leadership, whether it’s staff or politicians, in terms of saying ‘here’s what we need — let’s go negotiate it.’ As opposed to, ‘oh no, we’re not going to do that,'” said Wilson, who has long been critical of Calgary Mayor Naheed Nenshi’s apprehensive approach to supporting an arena that will clearly require tax dollars to build. “It bugs me to no end that when a city is allocated a couple hundred million for a sports facility that an ownership group anywhere puts up of their own money. People keep forgetting that’s a donation — a donation to the infrastructure of the city. Sure, they’re going to want to mould the building in terms of access and rights to usage, but that’s all part of a contract.” Instead of embracing the possibilities and working hard toward a solution, Nenshi initially showed outright disdain for the mere notion of spending a dime of taxpayers’ money on a new rink. “I think the biggest problem has been this mindset — this perception that there has to be a win-lose negotiation,” said Wilson. “On the part of whether it’s the mayor or some of the aldermen, the comment that, ‘I’m never going to give a dollar to the billionaires’ is just so adverse to the interest of the city.” Correct. While we are led to believe progress is being made between the Flames and the city behind closed doors the last handful of months, the dialogue over possibilities has yet to be healthy enough among constituents. It needs to have concrete numbers on how East Village’s Plan B, next to the current Dome, would be funded, so the public can have an informed discussion on its merits. “But one of the core problems from my perspective is the sheer autonomy and power the Stampede board has,” Wilson said of the East Village concept. “Based on rumour and innuendo, I would question the sanity of anyone trying to build a facility on Stampede land. That’s why you start to see talk of property swaps. I don’t have any inside knowledge from the team or the city, but you can see there’s movement.” The latest threat is that unless a proposal between the city and the Flames is unveiled within the next handful of weeks, there would be no possible movement from city council on it until after the October municipal election. Calgary’s leadership needs to boldly steer people in the right direction, which is to make sure a deal is concocted allowing Calgary to eventually enjoy the fruits of a new building the way Nashville has. Or the Flames will eventually leave, providing economists with a case study on how to dismantle a city. “The relationship the Predators as a club have with the city of Nashville is extraordinary, whether it be through funding, expansions, upgrades, renovations,” said Wilson. “The benefit to the city has been immense. Why can’t we figure that out in Calgary?” It’s a question Nenshi and his council needs to answer soon, before another wave of politicians are brought in to end this logjam.

Treliving absolutely has to deliver on obtaining an upgrade for a starter.... There were not many valid options for next season, and now there are two less... We all know the other areas that need improvement, RW, D, etc, etc... Gully has had another year as a head coach and made some mistakes, but also made significant progress... I think that he will learn from the mistakes and use the experience of what worked and what didn't and grow as a coach... Even if the other needs are addressed and improved, if the Flames do not have more reliable goaltending next season Treliving will have come up short and failed... At this point I have no reason to think that Treliving won't come up with a deal for a solid starter, but anything less including just 'average' performance protecting the net and the Flames will be at a disadvantage right from the start of the season...

When Fleury has been in the zone during the playoffs and the Pens have won, he has put up some impressive numbers... .956 SV% & 1.52 GAA while facing an average of 35.7 shots... His stats fall off a cliff for the losses, with a .864 SV% & 4.39 GAA while facing an average of 28.2 shots, but the D and the Pens as a team also share blame for the losses... That said, Fleury has also been able to come back with some solid performances after losses... Viability of acquiring Fleury would depend on availability and cost... He is not my first choice, but Bishop and Darling are taken, other possibilities are still unknown depending on availability, but Fleury is still an upgrade over either of Elliott or Johnson... The question has become who else might become available in the right trade that would be a better option, and at this point it is impossible to say... The cost might be more than some might want to see the Flames spend, but the Flames can't afford to go into next season with just average or sub-par goaltending either... They need an upgrade as a starter...

Darling cost the Canes their lowest 3rd round pick... Keeping Elliott would cost the Flames their 3rd round pick in 2018, on top of the 35th overall they already gave up... Who would you rather have?... At $4.15 mil a season for Darling compared to the $2.7 mil the Flames payed Elliott this season, I still take Darling... But that ship has sailed, and the Flames missed the boat... For me Bishop is still on my short list, and I think his ask for a contract might not be as bad as some might think... See what the KIngs want, and what could be arranged to trade for Bishop's negotiating rights... Leave it too long, and a team like the Stars might drive up the price... Any goaltender the Flames are likely going to be able to pick up is a gamble, so is keeping Elliott, and hoping at this stage of his career he can be consistent as a starter is also a risk... I have no doubt in my mind that Elliott was seriously rattled the last couple of games... and I just don't want to bet the farm on his being able to turn it around as a dependable starter... That said, maybe he could thrive as a backup until Gillies or Rittich is ready ... If it's for the right price... This 1a/1b goaltender approach is not something I want to see repeated... The Flames need a starter... and they need to upgrade to get one... t

I'm not saying that is not possible, but I am saying neither has earned it, and it's not a good idea... There have been worse contracts, even with the Flames... There is too great a chance for another meltdown, from both of them... and we're not just talking a bad game here or there... Even if one of them ends up getting another contract with the Flames due to lack of feasible options, it should only be as a backup on a 1 year show-me, and no NTC or NMC... That way the door for a trade or demotion to the Heat would remain open... If Elliott/Johnson says no to that, then that says something about their confidence to have a comeback season and earn a better contract...

and Beaker wants to be a master electrician... Just don't that happening either...

Have to wonder if the Pens don't try and work a deal to keep both... It's not Murray that's been getting the starts... Take Fleury's last 5 games, 1 he was soft and had a .853 SV%... They stayed with him and he came back with a .961 SV% in 51 shots to eliminate the BJ's... Next 2 games he went .943 and .944... Last night he only had a .909, but I'd still be surprised if he doesn't get the next start... That said, I don't see the Pens trading away Murray either... If they have to choose, Fleury will probably be the one to go on the block...

If something happens in a deal for Fleury or Murray going to another team, then the price for Bishop goes up, both for his rights and then to sign him... Same thing happens when Darling is signed... Supply and demand...

Can't see the best goalies still being available that late... The longer Treliving waits, the bigger the stakes get for the gamble to get a starter... Treliving already missed the boat on Darling, and he will soon run out of boats... No boat, and drowning is a distinct possibility... Trade for his rights, and it might not cost as much as you think to get him signed... Bishop already said regarding his contract ask when the deal to the Flames fell apart last summer that it wouldn't be as high as many had thought... and you still save the high cost to acquire him last summer (rumored 1st round pick)... Rather have Fleury or Murray?... It is unknown what Pittsburgh and/or Vegas will do... It's another gamble... and any goalie that comes available that is worth getting will present the same risk for a bidding war... As it stands now, LA might do everything they can to keep Bishop from going to the Flames... Even though Treliving already knew the shortcomings of Elliott and Johnson by the time Bishop was traded to LA, it sounds like he didn't consider the possibility of that happening...

Maybe NBC Sports got the tip for the story from Bishop's agent...

From: http://nhl.nbcsports.com/2017/05/01/the-ben-bishop-market-is-reportedly-heating-up/ The Ben Bishop market is reportedly heating up There’s been significant goalie movement already this offseason, so no surprise suitors are now jockeying for Ben Bishop‘s services. Per TSN’s Pierre LeBrun, a “couple of teams” spoke to Los Angeles about acquiring the rights to Bishop, who becomes an unrestricted free agent on July 1. Obtaining Bishop’s rights would open up a two-month negotiating window ahead of him hitting the market. This news comes days after Carolina made a big splash in the goalie market — acquiring Scott Darling’s rights from Chicago — and with another potential target, Marc-Andre Fleury, showing extremely well for Pittsburgh. Bishop, 30, just wrapped the last of a two-year, $11.9 million deal with a $5.95M average annual cap hit. His season was largely forgettable. Caught in a difficult situation with Tampa Bay — splitting time with goalie-of-the-future Andrei Vasilevskiy, and distracted by contract uncertainty — Bishop had just a .910 save percentage in 32 games with the Bolts, before getting flipped to L.A. at the deadline. With the Kings, Bishop wasn’t much better. His save percentage dropped to .900, and the club failed in its attempt to rally for a postseason push. This might’ve knocked some of the luster off Bishop, but probably not that much. He’s only one year removed from a banner ’15-16 campaign in which he was the Vezina runner-up, and finished 10th in MVP voting. He also posted three straight 35-win seasons with the Bolts, including a career-high 40 in ’14-15. Still, he might not be in line for a huge payday or lengthy term. For as good as his resume is, Bishop turns 31 in November and has a history of health issues. Teams believed to be interested include Calgary and Dallas, most notably.

It wouldn't be balls, just stupidity... Treliving went after two bargain goalies last summer, and we all know how that turned out... While they both had good runs, they both also had meltdowns, and when it was all said and done for the season, the bad still outweighed the good... When Bishop went to LA, I sure hope Treliving was at least trying to get him, he was in negotiations for Bishop in the summer so he was obviously interested then... It is also possible that if Treliving was in on Bishop and the offer was similar, Yzerman might have been inclined to let Bishop go to LA because of the trade talks with the Flames going south in the summer... If it was a case not wanting to hurt the current goalies feelings?... Too bad, by that time they had both had extended periods of incompetence... With Darling getting snapped up, the short list of potentially available goaltenders that have the best chance of being an upgrade just got even shorter... Treliving has to deliver on a goaltending upgrade... If he stays with Elliott and Johnson, or even one of them as part of a 1a/1b approach again and it doesn't work, it could cost the Flames a season, the risk is too big... The only way he could keep one of Elliott or Johnson is to get a bonafide starter and then keep one as a backup... and even that carries a risk...

It's Nenshi... He just wants to blow smoke...

Seems like when it comes the the creosote contamination, Nenshi would rather drop it than look the problem in the eye and find a real solution...

No doubt that we will see more of it in the papers on a regular basis...

Have to wonder when it's finally coming down the pipe...

I realize that I said that Darling was not high on my list as a potential goalie for the Flames to try and obtain for next season, and I have to admit that could very well be from the limited times that I watched him play... What I had seen turns out to be some of his weaker games and highlights of goals against... So after searching out and watching more of Darling, I would now have to say he is on my short list of goalies I would be like to see in a Flames jersey as an upgrade...

It is not only disgraceful to further delay the cleanup that should have long ago been completed, it has a potential to become a very expensive class action lawsuit from affected property owners... If carcinogenic gasses are seeping into basements and nothing is being done to stop the problem from becoming even worse over time, it is a huge liability... and the ramifications of that liability could easily prove to be a lot more expensive than cleaning it up... Nenshi want's to put together an Olympic bid, and that will require new facilities... Location aside, no matter where a new arena and the promised fieldhouse are built, the creosote is an environmental disaster that is long overdue to be dealt with and not just swept under the carpet for the next mayor... Get over that...

Nenshi has decided that the best way to procrastinate the creosote cleanup is with another 5 year study while the problem spreads even further and becomes more difficult and expensive to deal with... and he's going to roll with it...