JTech780 Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 18 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said: Which I find very odd. It was an open secret that Winnipeg was asking about Stone. In the end, Winnipeg gave up more for Hayes than what Ottawa received for Stone. I would assume that Winnipeg was offering more for Stone. Brannstrom is way better than the late 1st that Winnipeg gave to the Rangers. My guess is that Brannstrom carried more value than Valimaki and we would have had to add to the deal to get it done. I think Ottawa valued getting an elite prospect over getting an unknown 1st round pick. I would have to agree with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 26, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 19 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said: Ah, so that might have scared Winnipeg away too. $9.5 seems a little high. And you expect Tkachuk to be that much cheaper on a 8 year deal? It is what it is. They bought a ton of UFA years and paid the price. He wan;t re-signing in OTT so their offer was a moot point. The difference between Tkachuk and Sotne for cost is that Stone is a proven top 10 scorer. What would you sign JH for this year, if it was an 8 year deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 2 minutes ago, JTech780 said: Brannstrom is way better than the late 1st that Winnipeg gave to the Rangers. My guess is that Brannstrom carried more value than Valimaki and we would have had to add to the deal to get it done. I think Ottawa valued getting an elite prospect over getting an unknown 1st round pick. I would have to agree with them. A first and two other pieces. I admit that I know little about the latter two players. 3 minutes ago, travel_dude said: And you expect Tkachuk to be that much cheaper on a 8 year deal? It is what it is. They bought a ton of UFA years and paid the price. He wan;t re-signing in OTT so their offer was a moot point. The difference between Tkachuk and Sotne for cost is that Stone is a proven top 10 scorer. What would you sign JH for this year, if it was an 8 year deal? I was expecting we would pay $8 million or so for Tkachuk. I always have a hard time identifying comparables for JH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 26, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 Just now, Cowtownguy said: A first and two other pieces. I admit that I know little about the latter two players. I was expecting we would pay $8 million or so for Tkachuk. I always have a hard time identifying comparables for JH. Kucherov. I would say JH is worth 9.5 today. Stone, Kuchrov, JH are all top 10 wingers. As far as Thachuk, I was just saying he's not that much less than Stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 7 minutes ago, travel_dude said: And you expect Tkachuk to be that much cheaper on a 8 year deal? It is what it is. They bought a ton of UFA years and paid the price. He wan;t re-signing in OTT so their offer was a moot point. The difference between Tkachuk and Stone for cost is that Stone is a proven top 10 scorer. What would you sign JH for this year, if it was an 8 year deal? Except Tkachuk is 21 and has about 8 years or Prime play left .. no doubt Stone is worth 9.5, but at 26 now, they'll be hating that contract for at least 3 or 4 years , on 8 years for Stone , the big $ should have been early with the $ dropping at the end to bring down the AAV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 3 minutes ago, travel_dude said: Kucherov. I would say JH is worth 9.5 today. Stone, Kuchrov, JH are all top 10 wingers. As far as Thachuk, I was just saying he's not that much less than Stone. Which is why I think I said $9.5 seems a little high. It sounds like McDavid territory. Salaries have been moving up quickly over the last few years. It could also be that I undervalue Stone as a result of not really watching him play very often. I would love to hear from a GM about how trades take place. Are there GMs who quite dislike each other? Do some talk frequently while others avoid each other? Does personality impact how they conduct business etc. I thought Burke's comments above were interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 26, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 2 minutes ago, phoenix66 said: Except Tkachuk is 21 and has about 8 years or Prime play left .. no doubt Stone is worth 9.5, but at 26 now, they'll be hating that contract for at least 3 or 4 years , on 8 years for Stone , the big $ should have been early with the $ dropping at the end to bring down the AAV At 34 he will be too old? So, JH is basically a year younger. Both have approc 5 seasons in the NHL. Stone - 366 games 123 goal 188 assists JH - 374 games 127 goals 240 assists We have JH for 3 more years after this. Does that mean we don;t re-sign him for longer 4 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 17 minutes ago, travel_dude said: And you expect Tkachuk to be that much cheaper on a 8 year deal? It is what it is. They bought a ton of UFA years and paid the price. He wan;t re-signing in OTT so their offer was a moot point. The difference between Tkachuk and Sotne for cost is that Stone is a proven top 10 scorer. What would you sign JH for this year, if it was an 8 year deal? Does it not make sense that Ottawa got little for Stone while they got a lot for Duchene because teams were frightened by the impending contract? I think only Vegas had that kind of dough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 3 minutes ago, travel_dude said: At 34 he will be too old? So, JH is basically a year younger. Both have approc 5 seasons in the NHL. Stone - 366 games 123 goal 188 assists JH - 374 games 127 goals 240 assists We have JH for 3 more years after this. Does that mean we don;t re-sign him for longer 4 years? at 28 I'm definitely not giving him an 8 year High $ contract , No - 6 tops, but not high AAV whats the difference between giving a 30 yr old a 5 year contract , and a 26 yr old an 8 year contract ?People were saying from Day 1 it was too long and too much term for Neal, who at the same age was nearly as highly regarded as Stone is now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 26, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 1 minute ago, Cowtownguy said: Does it not make sense that Ottawa got little for Stone while they got a lot for Duchene because teams were frightened by the impending contract? I think only Vegas had that kind of dough. I don't know. If Tavares had been auctioned off, instead of them letting him walk, the price would have looked way higher. He would have been a rental last year. Impact players cost a lot. Look, I'm not hung up on this. PO'd that we had the assets to make the deal, and the deal was close but fell apart. So, we go from "Deal fell part late last night" for Stone, to "deal fell apart for Zucker at the last minute" today to player X was a non-starter and "prepared to go to battle woth these guys". It just sounds like he's trying to placate the fans saying he walked away, when the deal just fell apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebrewcrew Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 2 minutes ago, travel_dude said: Look, I'm not hung up on this. PO'd that we had the assets to make the deal, and the deal was close but fell apart. So, we go from "Deal fell part late last night" for Stone, to "deal fell apart for Zucker at the last minute" today to player X was a non-starter and "prepared to go to battle woth these guys". It just sounds like he's trying to placate the fans saying he walked away, when the deal just fell apart. I'm a little mad Stone went to Vegas. I appreciate BT tried, maybe it was the Stone camp not wanting to sign here. We'll never know. Knowing BT he will be back at the table with MIN at the draft and we will have Zucker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 1 minute ago, travel_dude said: I don't know. If Tavares had been auctioned off, instead of them letting him walk, the price would have looked way higher. He would have been a rental last year. Impact players cost a lot. Look, I'm not hung up on this. PO'd that we had the assets to make the deal, and the deal was close but fell apart. So, we go from "Deal fell part late last night" for Stone, to "deal fell apart for Zucker at the last minute" today to player X was a non-starter and "prepared to go to battle woth these guys". It just sounds like he's trying to placate the fans saying he walked away, when the deal just fell apart. Im the same , I'm thoroughly ticked we couldn't land him , its just I get that BT had his limits and he stuck to it ..may end up liking it or regretting it later, time will tell, but it just says a lot he didnt panic and stuck to what he felt the plan was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 1 minute ago, travel_dude said: I don't know. If Tavares had been auctioned off, instead of them letting him walk, the price would have looked way higher. He would have been a rental last year. Impact players cost a lot. That might be correct. I just wonder if the term/price tag were an issue. Quote Look, I'm not hung up on this. PO'd that we had the assets to make the deal, and the deal was close but fell apart. So, we go from "Deal fell part late last night" for Stone, to "deal fell apart for Zucker at the last minute" today to player X was a non-starter and "prepared to go to battle woth these guys". It just sounds like he's trying to placate the fans saying he walked away, when the deal just fell apart. This part is what I find most interesting. Is Treliving is prone to making an offer and dropping the mic? How can a Chiarelli make so many bonehead mistakes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 26, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 4 minutes ago, phoenix66 said: at 28 I'm definitely not giving him an 8 year High $ contract , No - 6 tops, but not high AAV whats the difference between giving a 30 yr old a 5 year contract , and a 26 yr old an 8 year contract ?People were saying from Day 1 it was too long and too much term for Neal, who at the same age was nearly as highly regarded as Stone is now Hey, ya got me. Very few players are over 34 and still really good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 3 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said: I'm a little mad Stone went to Vegas. I appreciate BT tried, maybe it was the Stone camp not wanting to sign here. We'll never know. Knowing BT he will be back at the table with MIN at the draft and we will have Zucker The adult in me says stick to the course. The kid in me wanted Stone big time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebrewcrew Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 3 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said: The adult in me says stick to the course. The kid in me wanted Stone big time. Oh trust me I’ve wanted Stone for 3 seasons. I understand why he didn’t pull the trigger though, Valimaki will be a big part of this team and Stone would have been tough to sign without stripping the depth from the bottom 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheersMan Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 On 2019-02-23 at 10:25 AM, CheersMan said: BT will go bin diving Monday morning. Connie, grab my foot, I found a Swedish LHD that I think will work. -------- All kidding aside, you got to give BT credit for being visible, active and trying to find something at an acceptable price. Stone was a pipe dream. Nobody was outbidding LVK with the cap space, draft picks and young talent they had at their disposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 26, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 3 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said: That might be correct. I just wonder if the term/price tag were an issue. This part is what I find most interesting. Is Treliving is prone to making an offer and dropping the mic? How can a Chiarelli make so many bonehead mistakes? I don;t find BT to be good at trades. Hammer was okay, but almost birned us for a lotto pick. Hamilton was good, but we moved that to get Lindholm. Hanifin was reported to be available going back to TDL last year. But to be specific, he makes good trades in the summer. Outgoing players sold were good deals mostly. Baertschi. Glencross. Hudler. Russell. Granlund (not great) TDL deals to add players not so good: Lazar. Backstrom. Nick Shore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebrewcrew Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 4 minutes ago, CheersMan said: Connie, grab my foot, I found a Swedish LHD that I think will work. -------- All kidding aside, you got to give BT credit for being visible, active and trying to find something at an acceptable price. Stone was a pipe dream. Nobody was outbidding LVK with the cap space, draft picks and young talent they had at their disposal. Vegas is also in a unique spot where they are in a new market, they have fans that are new to hockey, so they can try to go all-in early in their history, hook the fans and in 5 years if they suck they will be fine since the fans have already tasted success Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 26, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 3 minutes ago, CheersMan said: \ All kidding aside, you got to give BT credit for being visible, active and trying to find something at an acceptable price. Stone was a pipe dream. Nobody was outbidding LVK with the cap space, draft picks and young talent they had at their disposal. Yes, they gave up a prospect playing in the AHL (great one mind you), Lindberg (27 year old center with 2 years above 20 points) and a 2nd. That would be hard to beat for a rebuilding team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 26, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 At the end of the day, we have what we have. Sink or swim. Neal is like a TDL trade. So is Czarnik. We will win or lose on the backs of our goalies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheersMan Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 8 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said: Vegas is also in a unique spot where they are in a new market, they have fans that are new to hockey, so they can try to go all-in early in their history, hook the fans and in 5 years if they suck they will be fine since the fans have already tasted success They should of did it with Karlson last year, not sure why they didn't, LVK got cold feet. 8 minutes ago, travel_dude said: Yes, they gave up a prospect playing in the AHL (great one mind you), Lindberg (27 year old center with 2 years above 20 points) and a 2nd. That would be hard to beat for a rebuilding team. A price BT was unwilling to pay, not to mention the $72 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 18 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said: That might be correct. I just wonder if the term/price tag were an issue. This part is what I find most interesting. Is Treliving is prone to making an offer and dropping the mic? How can a Chiarelli make so many bonehead mistakes? There are so many parts to a deal.. bonuses, cap , No trade clauses ... when you hear about the "trade call" thats when the league advises of all contract clauses ,makes sure its compliant to both sides .. sometimes bonus structure creates cap issues etc.. that one almost sounded like it fell apart in the trade call they way both sides (minnesota and calgary beat writers) were so sure it was done I heard Tre bring something up in the interview, not specifically to that deal but in general , that bonuses becomes payable in full or apply to the cap in full .. something like that ..made me wonder if there was some compliance issue in this one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfire11 Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 From what we can now see GM's were allowed to talk to Stones's agent. The price for Stone in a Canadian market and Canadian taxes could have been 10.5 or 11 full term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 Just now, redfire11 said: From what we can now see GM's were allowed to talk to Stones's agent. The price for Stone in a Canadian market and Canadian taxes could have been 10.5 or 11 full term. ohh ya .. forgot about the tax thing too.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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