Flames Power Play - Systemic Problems?

[MAC331]

There has been a lot of line juggling, but for the most part it has been due to injuries or poor play of the said lines.  BH is still trying to find line mates for the top line and settling on Hudler seems the best but isn't a long term solution unless we re-sign Hudler.  

 

The biggest conundrum to me is playing Bennett at LW all season to date.  It seems from the outside that he was either overruled early season or decided LW was best for Bennett for now because of too many mistakes early on.  Bennett has been too good for 3rd line but perhaps not that C role yet.

The one line move that wasn't due to injury IMO has done the most damage and that is moving Bennett to LW and expecting to get more offense out of Backlund. This has been the hope for Backlund as long as he has been here, sorry he just isn't top 6 material.

Ferland, Bennett, Frolik -awesome line

Bouma, Backlund Jones- awesome line

[darth_henning]

THAT ^

[travel_dude]

The one line move that wasn't due to injury IMO has done the most damage and that is moving Bennett to LW and expecting to get more offense out of Backlund. This has been the hope for Backlund as long as he has been here, sorry he just isn't top 6 material.

Ferland, Bennett, Frolik -awesome line

Bouma, Backlund Jones- awesome line

 

The only problem about Backlund is expecting him to provide offense.  He's not that.  Give Bennett the scoring support and don't worry so much about preventing.  You are right, Backs with Booms and Jones is just fine.  Or Jooris on RW.  

[DirtyDeeds]

There has been a lot of line juggling, but for the most part it has been due to injuries or poor play of the said lines.  BH is still trying to find line mates for the top line and settling on Hudler seems the best but isn't a long term solution unless we re-sign Hudler.  

 

The biggest conundrum to me is playing Bennett at LW all season to date.  It seems from the outside that he was either overruled early season or decided LW was best for Bennett for now because of too many mistakes early on.  Bennett has been too good for 3rd line but perhaps not that C role yet.

Just about everyone here thinks our needs are RW on Flames and in one sense it is but...

 

Just in your mind take Bennett out of the LW considerations and after JH, we are not that strong. I think this is a big part of the reason why we are playing him on LW. We are strong down the middle and playing Bennett on LW is easy fit there for now.

[darth_henning]

Just about everyone here thinks our needs are RW on Flames and in one sense it is but...

 

Just in your mind take Bennett out of the LW considerations and after JH, we are not that strong. I think this is a big part of the reason why we are playing him on LW. We are strong down the middle and playing Bennett on LW is easy fit there for now.

 

I think that's being a little harsh on our LW depth. 

 

Yes, we lack a top 6 LW, but we are good with depth. 

 

Both Bouma and Ferland are at a minimum very good 3rd line LWs, and both have the potential to be decent (though not great) 2LW.  That leaves one hold on LW. 

 

RW is a much bigger problem. The only natural RWs we have are Frolik and Jones, and Jones will be gone this year. 

 

Frolik is a good 3RW, but we have no 1RW, or 3 RW (or even 4 RW but that's easily convertable). 

 

That means we have: 1LW, 3LW, 3LW and 2 RW. RW is obvioiusly by far the weaker. 

 

We're surviving on RW because of converted centers (Hudler, Colborne, Jooris), while on LW we actually could get by even with Bennett playing center. 

 

Just looking at core players: 

 

Gaudreau - Monahan - ???

???? - Bennett - Frolik

Bouma - Backlund - ???

Ferland - ??? - ???

 

 

Poirier isn't showing the numbers we wanted, but may be able to play 3 RW. Grant can easily fill 4C (if not push Backlund for 3C opening up a trade option for him)

 

The bottom line can fill out with Shore, Arnold, Colborne or a bunch of others. 

 

The big holes we have are equal at LW and RW - we need a top 6 player for each. The lineup actually looks pretty good for the rest of the forwards. 

 

Jankowski might well be a top 6 C, but he's a couple years away, but if we want to look down the road, moving Bennett to wing in preparation for that might not be a horrible idea. But that still leaves that unfilled 1 RW spot. 

 

No matter how you want to look at it, RW is by far a bigger problem than LW that needs to be addressed. 

[MAC331]

I think that's being a little harsh on our LW depth. 

 

Yes, we lack a top 6 LW, but we are good with depth. 

 

Both Bouma and Ferland are at a minimum very good 3rd line LWs, and both have the potential to be decent (though not great) 2LW.  That leaves one hold on LW. 

 

RW is a much bigger problem. The only natural RWs we have are Frolik and Jones, and Jones will be gone this year. 

 

Frolik is a good 3RW, but we have no 1RW, or 3 RW (or even 4 RW but that's easily convertable). 

 

That means we have: 1LW, 3LW, 3LW and 2 RW. RW is obvioiusly by far the weaker. 

 

We're surviving on RW because of converted centers (Hudler, Colborne, Jooris), while on LW we actually could get by even with Bennett playing center. 

 

Just looking at core players: 

 

Gaudreau - Monahan - ???

???? - Bennett - Frolik

Bouma - Backlund - ???

Ferland - ??? - ???

 

 

Poirier isn't showing the numbers we wanted, but may be able to play 3 RW. Grant can easily fill 4C (if not push Backlund for 3C opening up a trade option for him)

 

The bottom line can fill out with Shore, Arnold, Colborne or a bunch of others. 

 

The big holes we have are equal at LW and RW - we need a top 6 player for each. The lineup actually looks pretty good for the rest of the forwards. 

 

Jankowski might well be a top 6 C, but he's a couple years away, but if we want to look down the road, moving Bennett to wing in preparation for that might not be a horrible idea. But that still leaves that unfilled 1 RW spot. 

 

No matter how you want to look at it, RW is by far a bigger problem than LW that needs to be addressed. 

I think a big mistake is being made with Ferland, this kid has true all round talents to play the 2nd line LW but not being recognized. You put Ferland there and then have Gaudreau, Bouma and Colborne that could fill out the LS.

If they trade off Hudler and keep Jones they could manage RW with some trials of others like Poirier, Arnold, Hamilton or Shore.

[darth_henning]

Ferland has the talent. I don't disagree with that. But outside of last year's playoffs, he hasn't really played up to his potential which is concerning IMHO. He has flashes of brilliance, but doesn't seem to be able to sustain it. 

 

He's still being pretty physical which is something that we don't have otherwise in the top 6, but he's not putting up the points. Could be be a 2LW? maybe. Right now? Good 3LW. That's all. 

 

 

Jones had a great start to the season and since then has been completely non-productive. Unless he takes 2 mil or less, there's no way on earth I keep him. Worth more to us for what he might be able to bring back for the future IMHO. 

 

Shore, Poirier, Arnold, Hamilton or Grant could all potentially fill the bottom two RW which I alluded to, but we have no 1RW in the system, and that's the gaping hole on the team currently up front. 

[MAC331]

Ferland has the talent. I don't disagree with that. But outside of last year's playoffs, he hasn't really played up to his potential which is concerning IMHO. He has flashes of brilliance, but doesn't seem to be able to sustain it. 

 

He's still being pretty physical which is something that we don't have otherwise in the top 6, but he's not putting up the points. Could be be a 2LW? maybe. Right now? Good 3LW. That's all. 

 

 

Jones had a great start to the season and since then has been completely non-productive. Unless he takes 2 mil or less, there's no way on earth I keep him. Worth more to us for what he might be able to bring back for the future IMHO. 

 

Shore, Poirier, Arnold, Hamilton or Grant could all potentially fill the bottom two RW which I alluded to, but we have no 1RW in the system, and that's the gaping hole on the team currently up front. 

That was my point, they are NOT using Ferland properly by trying him here and there, this line and that line, put him beside Bennett and turn him loose. It is hard to be consistent when this is how they use you.

Jones I meant for the remainder of this year only.

Top line RW will have to wait until the offseason. Management need to get this one correct.

[darth_henning]

That was my point, they are NOT using Ferland properly by trying him here and there, this line and that line, put him beside Bennett and turn him loose. It is hard to be consistent when this is how they use you.

Jones I meant for the remainder of this year only.

Top line RW will have to wait until the offseason. Management need to get this one correct.

 

That would require them moving Bennett to center. 

 

Really most of our future roster hinges on whether that happens. 

[robrob1974]

That was my point, they are NOT using Ferland properly by trying him here and there, this line and that line, put him beside Bennett and turn him loose. It is hard to be consistent when this is how they use you.

Jones I meant for the remainder of this year only.

Top line RW will have to wait until the offseason. Management need to get this one correct.

I agree. Ferland has looked great some games. Good in others and then quiet in some. I wonder if playing top line, whether he feels like he needs to change his game.

I think we fix RW in this year's draft. It has to be. But I know draft theory is to draft BPA. I hunk best case is draft a top line winger and have him on an entry level contract and slowly build his salary.

I suppose it means we need to fill a top line player in the meantime.

Hopefully they can trade Jones this TD. Even if they get a 3rd or 4th rounder.

[robrob1974]

Ferland has the talent. I don't disagree with that. But outside of last year's playoffs, he hasn't really played up to his potential which is concerning IMHO. He has flashes of brilliance, but doesn't seem to be able to sustain it.

He's still being pretty physical which is something that we don't have otherwise in the top 6, but he's not putting up the points. Could be be a 2LW? maybe. Right now? Good 3LW. That's all.

Jones had a great start to the season and since then has been completely non-productive. Unless he takes 2 mil or less, there's no way on earth I keep him. Worth more to us for what he might be able to bring back for the future IMHO.

Shore, Poirier, Arnold, Hamilton or Grant could all potentially fill the bottom two RW which I alluded to, but we have no 1RW in the system, and that's the gaping hole on the team currently up front.

Jones isn't playing with Backlund anymore which has possibly hurt his numbers.

I agree with Mac to keep Ferland on a line for consistency. I'd like to see him tried with Backlund for now. Although, maybe this works better?

Gaudreau, Monahan, Hudler

Ferland, Bennett, Frolik

Bouma, Backlund, Jones

Colborne, Stajan, Jooris

[MAC331]

That would require them moving Bennett to center. 

 

Really most of our future roster hinges on whether that happens. 

True on both accounts.

[MAC331]

I agree. Ferland has looked great some games. Good in others and then quiet in some. I wonder if playing top line, whether he feels like he needs to change his game.

I think we fix RW in this year's draft. It has to be. But I know draft theory is to draft BPA. I hunk best case is draft a top line winger and have him on an entry level contract and slowly build his salary.

I suppose it means we need to fill a top line player in the meantime.

Hopefully they can trade Jones this TD. Even if they get a 3rd or 4th rounder.

It is like BH is making him pay his dues or something. I would keep it simple for Ferland plus I think he shines playing with Bennett and Frolik.

I wouldn't to idealistic on how to fix top line RW. I would like to see if Okposo becomes available and his cost. We should get a very good player in the 1st round regardless. I won't lose any sleep if they manage to trade Jones.

[kehatch]

As I see it our roster starts with something like:

Gaudreau-Bennett-?

?-Monahan-Frolik

Ferland-Backlund-?

Bouma-?-?

Giordano-Brodie

?-Hamilton

?-?

?

?

Next season will be a transition year as contracts expire, kids earn spots, and Treliving tweets the roster. We don't have a lot of assets to trade and we don't have a lot of cap room or roster room to maneuver.

My guess is there will be some turnover at forward and D with pending free agents moving on. But those spots will be filled by existing roster players and the farm. I do think we will see trades to address goalie.

[MAC331]

As I see it our roster starts with something like:

Gaudreau-Bennett-?

?-Monahan-Frolik

Ferland-Backlund-?

Bouma-?-?

Giordano-Brodie

?-Hamilton

?-?

?

?

Next season will be a transition year as contracts expire, kids earn spots, and Treliving tweets the roster. We don't have a lot of assets to trade and we don't have a lot of cap room or roster room to maneuver.

My guess is there will be some turnover at forward and D with pending free agents moving on. But those spots will be filled by existing roster players and the farm. I do think we will see trades to address goalie.

Some of this would be interesting but I don't think they will move Bennett with Gaudreau, almost like to many moving parts. We should all be curious to see which of Backlund and Stajan will be around for 2016/17, maybe both, maybe one or maybe neither. I obviously believe Ferland has more talent than you give him credit for and the same with Bouma. I think Bouma has earned the right to be off the 4th line.

I also believe we have to split up Brodie and Giordano in order to get the best out of a top 4 not just two players being very good together.

There is going to be a pile of good goalies of the market this offseason, I wouldn't go trading for one mainly because I don't think we have the parts.

[darth_henning]

Jones isn't playing with Backlund anymore which has possibly hurt his numbers.

I agree with Mac to keep Ferland on a line for consistency. I'd like to see him tried with Backlund for now. Although, maybe this works better?

Gaudreau, Monahan, Hudler

Ferland, Bennett, Frolik

Bouma, Backlund, Jones

Colborne, Stajan, Jooris

 

That's exactly what I'd do with the parts we have now.

 

 

As I see it our roster starts with something like:

Gaudreau-Bennett-?

?-Monahan-Frolik

Ferland-Backlund-?

Bouma-?-?

Giordano-Brodie

?-Hamilton

?-?

?

?

Next season will be a transition year as contracts expire, kids earn spots, and Treliving tweets the roster. We don't have a lot of assets to trade and we don't have a lot of cap room or roster room to maneuver.

My guess is there will be some turnover at forward and D with pending free agents moving on. But those spots will be filled by existing roster players and the farm. I do think we will see trades to address goalie.

 

If we're looking at core players going forward. That's what we have

 

(Though I'd swap Monahan and Bennett; I know people like the idea of Gaudreau/Bennett as a line, but I feel that puts our two best weapons on the same line which makes the team much easier to defend against. Monahan has shown he can be a 30 goal scorer last year and is just shy of that pace this year too; he also has a defensive ability that allows Gaudreau and whever the RW winds up being more freedom)

 

Either Ferland or Bouma could possibly move up to a 2nd line player, but neither has shown that level of play consistently yet. Would be nice if one did. 

 

 

The next thing to look at is who we have coming up: 

 

Jankowski, Hamilton, Grant, Arnold, Poirier, Shore for forwards

Nakladal, Kulak, Culkin for defence

Gillies for goal

 

Defence is covered. Gillies is the future starter, so we mostly need a good backup. 

 

Poirier is logically filling the 3RW hole in the next couple seasons. Hamilton,Grant, Arnold or Shore easily fill out the bottom line

 

The big question is what we do with Jankowski. He's a top 6 player, but also a center. Do we leave Bennett on wing and wait for Jankowski to develop? Shift Jankowski to wing? Trade him for a top 6 winger? bury one of him/Bennett/Monahan on the 3rd line (which would be the scariest center depth in the league).  That's a very large question mark in my mind.

[MAC331]

That's exactly what I'd do with the parts we have now.

 

 

 

If we're looking at core players going forward. That's what we have

 

(Though I'd swap Monahan and Bennett; I know people like the idea of Gaudreau/Bennett as a line, but I feel that puts our two best weapons on the same line which makes the team much easier to defend against. Monahan has shown he can be a 30 goal scorer last year and is just shy of that pace this year too; he also has a defensive ability that allows Gaudreau and whever the RW winds up being more freedom)

 

Either Ferland or Bouma could possibly move up to a 2nd line player, but neither has shown that level of play consistently yet. Would be nice if one did. 

 

 

The next thing to look at is who we have coming up: 

 

Jankowski, Hamilton, Grant, Arnold, Poirier, Shore for forwards

Nakladal, Kulak, Culkin for defence

Gillies for goal

 

Defence is covered. Gillies is the future starter, so we mostly need a good backup. 

 

Poirier is logically filling the 3RW hole in the next couple seasons. Hamilton,Grant, Arnold or Shore easily fill out the bottom line

 

The big question is what we do with Jankowski. He's a top 6 player, but also a center. Do we leave Bennett on wing and wait for Jankowski to develop? Shift Jankowski to wing? Trade him for a top 6 winger? bury one of him/Bennett/Monahan on the 3rd line (which would be the scariest center depth in the league).  That's a very large question mark in my mind.

Is Jankowski done college this season and here for next season ? Just asking is status.

[darth_henning]

He's in his senior season at college this year. So he should be turning pro next season. I suspect he'll need a season or 2 in the A before he plays in the NHL though. 

 

His college numbers in Hockey East are significantly below Gaudreau's for each of his seasons played. But they are trending up. Not sure what they are this season. 

 

 

Gaudreau

 

GP-G -A -Pt

44-21-23-44

35-21-39-51

40-36-44-80

 

Jankowski

 

GP-G -A -Pt

34-7-11-18

39-13-12-25

27-09-19-27

 

 

 

Which brings up an interesting point. Defensively responsible center (like Monahan). Maybe leaving Bennett on the wing is the play. Gives us two very strong LWs, two defensively responsible (but still scoring) centers, and a possession-first scoring RW in Frolik. Just leaves one hole to fill and two strong lines. 

 

Gaudreau - Monahan - (?????)

Bennett - Jankowski - Frolik

 

Could have two lines that put up 40 goals from the LW, 30 from the centerman, and up to 20 from the RW. Provides an interesting balance. 

[MAC331]

 

He's in his senior season at college this year. So he should be turning pro next season. I suspect he'll need a season or 2 in the A before he plays in the NHL though. 

 

His college numbers in Hockey East are significantly below Gaudreau's for each of his seasons played. But they are trending up. Not sure what they are this season. 

 

 

Gaudreau

 

GP-G -A -Pt

44-21-23-44

35-21-39-51

40-36-44-80

 

Jankowski

 

GP-G -A -Pt

34-7-11-18

39-13-12-25

27-09-19-27

 

 

 

Which brings up an interesting point. Defensively responsible center (like Monahan). Maybe leaving Bennett on the wing is the play. Gives us two very strong LWs, two defensively responsible (but still scoring) centers, and a possession-first scoring RW in Frolik. Just leaves one hole to fill and two strong lines. 

 

Gaudreau - Monahan - (?????)

Bennett - Jankowski - Frolik

 

Could have two lines that put up 40 goals from the LW, 30 from the centerman, and up to 20 from the RW. Provides an interesting balance. 

 

The only problem with this as you said yourself, Jankowski may need time in AAA. I think the evaluation team needs to determine if he is a C or possibly a RW ? Personally I love the ground Bennett covers with his speed and prefer to see him at C for us. I think Ferland patrolling LW for Bennett will buy him a lot of space to do his thing. Frolik would be an all round experienced player for them.

[darth_henning]

Exactly. Jankowski is a medium to long-term project. If he cracks the lineup as quickly as Gaudreau it will be a pleasant shock but is incredibly unlikely. 

 

I prefer Bennett as center as well. But then where does Jankowski go? 

 

Backlund is our shutdown. Grant is making a strong case to play as a center also. That gives us great depth down the middle, but means someone's getting converted to wing in a couple years. I'm just not sure who. 

 

 

I really want to see Ferland break out and show he's a top 6 player. Right now I see him as a very good 3rd liner but no better. Maybe (as others have pointed out) more consistent pairings would help him. I don't know. A lot to figure out between now and next season. 

[MAC331]

Exactly. Jankowski is a medium to long-term project. If he cracks the lineup as quickly as Gaudreau it will be a pleasant shock but is incredibly unlikely. 

 

I prefer Bennett as center as well. But then where does Jankowski go? 

 

Backlund is our shutdown. Grant is making a strong case to play as a center also. That gives us great depth down the middle, but means someone's getting converted to wing in a couple years. I'm just not sure who. 

 

 

I really want to see Ferland break out and show he's a top 6 player. Right now I see him as a very good 3rd liner but no better. Maybe (as others have pointed out) more consistent pairings would help him. I don't know. A lot to figure out between now and next season. 

LOL best not to get to far ahead of ourselves.

[cross16]

To get things back on topic a bit....

 

Since Wideman has been suspended Flames are 3-10 on the PP and Hamilton has been invovled in all of them with a goal and 2 Assists. 

 

I don't mind Wideman on the 2nd unit, but it can't be any more clear to Hartley then even when Wideman returns he can't be anywhre near the first unit.

[travel_dude]

To get things back on topic a bit....

 

Since Wideman has been suspended Flames are 3-10 on the PP and Hamilton has been invovled in all of them with a goal and 2 Assists. 

 

I don't mind Wideman on the 2nd unit, but it can't be any more clear to Hartley then even when Wideman returns he can't be anywhre near the first unit.

 

I don't know if Hartley pays attention to stats, but Russell and Wideman are missing the net on over 40% of their shots.  The eye test also shows that.  A missed shot usually end up as a loss of possession on a PP, or having the puck deflect out of the zone.

 

I like Brodie and Hamilton's choices, since they will skate in or pick a spot and wrist it in.  Those tend to result in rebounds.  Gio uses wristers and slapshots, but tends to places them direct on, instead of angled shots.

[kehatch]

To get things back on topic a bit....

 

Since Wideman has been suspended Flames are 3-10 on the PP and Hamilton has been invovled in all of them with a goal and 2 Assists. 

 

I don't mind Wideman on the 2nd unit, but it can't be any more clear to Hartley then even when Wideman returns he can't be anywhre near the first unit.

 

Wideman has 2 goals on the season.  Not PP goals.  Two goals.  Yet he was still getting 3 minutes or more of PP time per game.  If it wasn't clear to him before the suspension I am skeptical it will be after.  

[robrob1974]

The one man back on the point isn't working. How many 2-on-1s do we have to give up while on the pp