MAC331 Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 The biggest problem is in the timing. If Gio doesn't re-sign before the season BT will be forced to trade him at the TDL or risk losing him for nothing. There would be a possibility of him signing after the season, after Jone's contract drops off but that would be risky in the extreme. As I've said before, the Flames biggest problem right now is excess vets and they need to drop or trade 2-3 NOW! That would likely be Jones and two of Engelland, Smid, Wideman or Russell. Preferably the first two. If that means dumping them for low picks, so be it, we have replacements who are probably even better. Once three are gone signing Gio won't be a problem. Look at Chicago, they've had to dump players to keep their core, and have done it twice and come back to win Cups twice. It can be done. It is never that easy and I don't see any reason to panic about our situation. Trades can happen throughout the year, needs arise. I for can't believe where salaries have gone for the "stars" and every GM's willingness to accommodate them. We are suppose to be rebuilding yet we seem to be dealing with playoff aspirations today. Yes we have some overpaid vets on the roster however that was intentional and instrumental for rebuilding. The next two years will and should be transitional years with a solid plan in place of which players you want at the end of that period. It is every GM's job to build the best team possible within the perimeters of the cap world. Good luck BT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 If you sign Gio for $8mm next year, and Monahan and Gaudreau to $6.75mm contracts (average of the Saad/Tarasanko contract hits which are the best current comparibles for what they can probably command next year), given what we have today you have 8 forwards signed for 30mm and 6 defenseman signed for 30mm. that means that you have 11 million to sign 2 goalies 4 forwards to ice a roster as well as your three spares, so 9 players total. I think it is safe to assume that your two goalies in any given year will likely command 4mm or more between them, which means you have an average of 789,770 per player left. From the flames roster as per generalfanager this does not include: Russell Jones Hudler Colborne Jooris Shore Bouma Grandlund Ferland Byron I underlined players I think most would agree that losing them would hurt the team’s cup chances. If you sign him to that contract you likely lose most of these guys and replace them with prospects or 4th line guys. To give you an idea of the level of player 800,000 gets you, the only guys currently signed in the flames system in 2016-17 who make less that are: Hunter Smith Garnet Hathaway Austin Carroll Brett Kulak Ryan Culkin Keegan Kanzig Granlund is the only one of the expiring contracts after next season that fits under that watermark. I would argue that it is not as simple as "sign Gio, have cup window for 5 years" even under the premise of his play staying superstar level for that time. Granted, a year later we can afford it much better once a bunch of bad contracts come off the books, but if your going to make the blanket statement you did, you have to be prepared for the contingency that nobody else wants Smid at 3.5mm all that much either. So likely the only way you move most of the bad contracts is by paying someone to take them. Doing that means your not risking it closing in 5 years, your slamming it shut since you won't have the same volume of prospects to hopefully find guys who can replace current players from. Gio is one of my favorite players, but if you're being logical rather then letting emotions dictate your projections you have to assume at best you have 3-5 years before a contract over $7mm becomes an anchor pulling the team down. I remember people making the argument's for keeping Iggy and Kipper since they were also clearly going to be able to maintain their superstar level's of play into their late 30's, and look how that turned out. And that is ignoring the fact that he has a history of injuries, which you have to assume will get worse as he ages, and there is no guarantee that he can come back from the torn tendons as anything more then a shadow of his former self... so there is a real risk it is a bad contract on day one. Unless he wants to sign a hometown discount I believe the return we can get for him will help the team far more then signing him to a 8mm contract would. I agree, only if salary caps stay static over time. Unfortuntely, the salary cap has only moved up higher since its introduction to the league and the expectation is that it will continue to go up over the next 5-years, slowly, but still higher. The strength of the Canadian dollar is a contributing factor to any potential fall in the salary cap because the NHL makes a lot of its money from the Canadian market. That said, even with exchange rates at $1 to 80-cents thoughout most of 2015, the cap still went up by $2-million this coming season. If the cap goes up by $2-mil per year over the next 5-years, then the Flames can be looking at increasingly more cap flexibility especially when we are shed of Raymond, Engellend, and Smid contracts. Even Jones could potentially be replaced by Poirier as soon as this season. Hiller and Ramo can be surpassed by a much more affordable Ortio. So many things can happen between now and next season with the roster and the cap. All this based on only a sub-par Canadian economy and dollar. If the Canadian economy picks up in 2 years, then we could see the salary cap increase by $3 to $5-mil per year. And if the cap goes DOWN? If that happens, then it's not a Calgary Flames problem alone. It's a league wide 25-team problem and I see the league either doing something about the league cap or every team drops one guy into UFA and all teams suffer together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 The linked article contains some interesting facts about the usefullness of Gio. Interesting food for thought. I disagree that you give Gio a blank cheque, but the loss of the pplayer has a big tangible effect. Ignore where the source posts this article, as he has covered a lot of teams, and quotes some reasonable sources. http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Todd-Cordell/How-Much-Is-Mark-Giordano-Worth/202/69882 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 The linked article contains some interesting facts about the usefullness of Gio. Interesting food for thought. I disagree that you give Gio a blank cheque, but the loss of the pplayer has a big tangible effect. Ignore where the source posts this article, as he has covered a lot of teams, and quotes some reasonable sources. http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Todd-Cordell/How-Much-Is-Mark-Giordano-Worth/202/69882 They do want to improve their possession game and if Giordano can lead the way great. I was surprised to see Byron being used for the same reason. There was a lot of very poor ill conceived passing attempts last year and undoubtedly our possession game has to improve. Undoubtedly Giordano is valuable to this team, he should be paid fairly and that for me is in around 6.6M over 6 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 I agree with the link td. I don't think he is replaceable for us. We've been impressed by the Flames culture for 2 yrs, the exact amount of time he's been Captain. We can say Hartley introduced it, but Gio has driven it. He is one of the best Dmen in the league all over the ice imho, and firm as the team's leader. The respect level for Calgary is apparent all over the league as you won't find many, if any, that hates the Flames. It's part Iginla legacy, but Gio sure carries the torch. What his contract does to the team in terms of cap, it's going to do. There's a fair bit of complaining, but we used to complain that he is underrated around the league. Well, he isn't underrated anymore, it's time to pay the piper. I'd be happy with 8 over 5, depreciating to around 6.7ish for an 8 yr term, but I'd do my damnedest to keep it around 7.5 for 6. 3-8mils, 3 7mils. The last yr or 2 might be painful, but in the now, I'm not going to underrate the fact he makes us a much better team. Who is our D leader after Gio? Hamilton and Brodie slug it out? No thanks. Wideman or Russell? No thanks. We can't replace 2 things. 1. Quality 2. Leadership I hope we don't think we can. He is clearly the "why" for where we're at currently. He makes EVERYONE better and crushes the fitness testing. As an aside, no offense to the OP, but this thread title is steeped in animosity, and thus a lot of reads throughout sound like we're the team at an arbitration hearing sharpening our fangs, rather than coming to terms with the fact it's Gio that makes everyone better, not Brodie making Gio better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cccsberg Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 It is never that easy and I don't see any reason to panic about our situation. Trades can happen throughout the year, needs arise. I for can't believe where salaries have gone for the "stars" and every GM's willingness to accommodate them. We are suppose to be rebuilding yet we seem to be dealing with playoff aspirations today. Yes we have some overpaid vets on the roster however that was intentional and instrumental for rebuilding. The next two years will and should be transitional years with a solid plan in place of which players you want at the end of that period. It is every GM's job to build the best team possible within the perimeters of the cap world. Good luck BT. Not panicking here, but with recent additions and the sooner than anticipated advance of new players, we are much further along the rebuild than expected. We have the potential to be among the truly contending as soon as this year, and a few overpaid vets is one of the main issues at the forefront today. I agree, only if salary caps stay static over time. Unfortuntely, the salary cap has only moved up higher since its introduction to the league and the expectation is that it will continue to go up over the next 5-years, slowly, but still higher. The strength of the Canadian dollar is a contributing factor to any potential fall in the salary cap because the NHL makes a lot of its money from the Canadian market. That said, even with exchange rates at $1 to 80-cents thoughout most of 2015, the cap still went up by $2-million this coming season. If the cap goes up by $2-mil per year over the next 5-years, then the Flames can be looking at increasingly more cap flexibility especially when we are shed of Raymond, Engellend, and Smid contracts. Even Jones could potentially be replaced by Poirier as soon as this season. Hiller and Ramo can be surpassed by a much more affordable Ortio. So many things can happen between now and next season with the roster and the cap. All this based on only a sub-par Canadian economy and dollar. If the Canadian economy picks up in 2 years, then we could see the salary cap increase by $3 to $5-mil per year. And if the cap goes DOWN? If that happens, then it's not a Calgary Flames problem alone. It's a league wide 25-team problem and I see the league either doing something about the league cap or every team drops one guy into UFA and all teams suffer together. The Salary Cap going up certainly will help, but it won't help with signing Gio today(this summer). Only trading out some vets will help that. I guess we'll see what happens over the next three months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CastleMania Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 Yea, I don't know why everyone keeps talking about being in the middle of a rebuild. The fact is, we possibly have the assets in place to be a contender this year and definitely going forward after that. Most of the "-building" part of "re-building" is done. Now it's just development as far as I'm concerned. This year wasn't just luck, IMO. The thing that ended up holding us back was a lack of depth, a deficiency that we have largely addressed over the past month. Let's make the moves necessary to compete for a cup over the next 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 I think we're overvaluing ourselves when some say we are contenders. Gaudreau, Bennett and Monahan as well as any other youthful players are all so young. We could very well regress a bit. Adding a few players changes a bit, but we are still rebuilding. We are going to be fighting 6 teams for the last 3 spots again. We are kidding ourselves here. We beat the Canucks, who, if 3 teams didn't drop, like us, probably shouldn't have made the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 Yea, I don't know why everyone keeps talking about being in the middle of a rebuild. The fact is, we possibly have the assets in place to be a contender this year and definitely going forward after that. Most of the "-building" part of "re-building" is done. Now it's just development as far as I'm concerned. This year wasn't just luck, IMO. The thing that ended up holding us back was a lack of depth, a deficiency that we have largely addressed over the past month. Let's make the moves necessary to compete for a cup over the next 5 years. I don't know why many look at it as, "we did pretty good without Gio". The Anaheim series had me pining how much better we'd have been with him. Remove a couple of smart picks by Perry, because Gio knows him, throw in our pillar of strength at D AND Offence D, it's close. Perhaps the difference in games going to overtime or not... We did okay without him, he sure wouldn't have HURT our chances. We were the wtf team last year, there's always 1 or 2. Sustaining it is the challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokernHockey Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 You do remember that there was a lockout in 2012/13? Sure, and if the lockout happened last year he would have never been injured based on the game number it happened in either so perhaps it was just bad luck that the lockout happened in 2012/13 instead of 2014/15. His ppg in the last 4 years starting in 2011/12 were .44, .32, .73, .78, so his lowest was the lockout year. That year the effort level was also down considerably post Iggy trade, which is to be expected when you tell your team that we are giving up on the season and entering a rebuild. Perhaps the reason he played a full season was because it was shorter and he wasn't playing as hard? I agree, only if salary caps stay static over time. Unfortuntely, the salary cap has only moved up higher since its introduction to the league and the expectation is that it will continue to go up over the next 5-years, slowly, but still higher. The strength of the Canadian dollar is a contributing factor to any potential fall in the salary cap because the NHL makes a lot of its money from the Canadian market. That said, even with exchange rates at $1 to 80-cents thoughout most of 2015, the cap still went up by $2-million this coming season. If the cap goes up by $2-mil per year over the next 5-years, then the Flames can be looking at increasingly more cap flexibility especially when we are shed of Raymond, Engellend, and Smid contracts. Even Jones could potentially be replaced by Poirier as soon as this season. Hiller and Ramo can be surpassed by a much more affordable Ortio. So many things can happen between now and next season with the roster and the cap. All this based on only a sub-par Canadian economy and dollar. If the Canadian economy picks up in 2 years, then we could see the salary cap increase by $3 to $5-mil per year. And if the cap goes DOWN? If that happens, then it's not a Calgary Flames problem alone. It's a league wide 25-team problem and I see the league either doing something about the league cap or every team drops one guy into UFA and all teams suffer together. The cap went up this year because the players chose to use their right to increase it by 5%, if they had not done that there was speculation it would at best stagnate if not go down. There was a lot of talk that players are getting sick of doing that because of how much of their salaries they lose to escrow, so it isn't a guarantee they will do that again in the future. That means any future increase caused by revenue first has to make up the difference between where it "should" be this year and where it is. The dollar is also starting much lower and will likely average lower then it did last hockey season because of that. If Hillar and Ramo are surpased you don't think Ortio will want a raise which could make him less affordable? as of today only the Ducks (~3.5mm), Leafs (2.3mm with only 1 goalie signed), and capitals (2mm, Holtby is not signed, once he is the backup cost will be 1mm unless they plan on carrying 3 goalies) are paying less then 4mm for their top 2 goaltenders. I would bet that after Burnier and Holtby sign that will go to only being the ducks. I still believe my 4mm in goaltending is pretty conservative. I fully agree with the people who want to sign him at all costs on a standalone basis. Most people seem to agree that long term it will probably turn into a bad contract as it nears the end. The point I am trying to make is you have to consider the fall out from signing him on the team in the short term as well because it isn't as simple as he is worth x so pay him x. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 Yea, I don't know why everyone keeps talking about being in the middle of a rebuild. The fact is, we possibly have the assets in place to be a contender this year and definitely going forward after that. Most of the "-building" part of "re-building" is done. Now it's just development as far as I'm concerned. This year wasn't just luck, IMO. The thing that ended up holding us back was a lack of depth, a deficiency that we have largely addressed over the past month. Let's make the moves necessary to compete for a cup over the next 5 years. You are right about development. Guys like Granlund, Arnold, Poirier, Ortio, Gillies, Morrison, Nakadl, Wotherspoon, Klimchuk, Smith, Janko, Hickey are all waiting in the wings. They are only solid development away from being good players on a good team. Maybe not Tarasenko level, but possibly top 6. Bennett for a full year will be slugging it out for top rookie. McDavid is the media favorite, but Bennett is one step ahead of him already. Johnny has never regressed in any league. He just gets better. If they keep him with Hudler and Mony for a full season, it will likely cause an increase in points. Frolik could be Bennett's winger and create magic. Hamilton, Brodie, Gio, and Wideman could be the top 4 in the league in D scoring. Backlund may figure out the soring part of being a 2-way player. A lot of ifs, but we have the solid play from last year to build on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cccsberg Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 I think we're overvaluing ourselves when some say we are contenders. Gaudreau, Bennett and Monahan as well as any other youthful players are all so young. We could very well regress a bit. Adding a few players changes a bit, but we are still rebuilding. We are going to be fighting 6 teams for the last 3 spots again. We are kidding ourselves here. We beat the Canucks, who, if 3 teams didn't drop, like us, probably shouldn't have made the playoffs. The Blackhawks won the first of their latest three Cups when Kane & Toews were very young. Don't be afraid of youth, ours are driving the team forward and upward. Will it be easy? No, but we should definitely be in the conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 Not panicking here, but with recent additions and the sooner than anticipated advance of new players, we are much further along the rebuild than expected. We have the potential to be among the truly contending as soon as this year, and a few overpaid vets is one of the main issues at the forefront today. The Salary Cap going up certainly will help, but it won't help with signing Gio today(this summer). Only trading out some vets will help that. I guess we'll see what happens over the next three months. No doubt some overpaid vets but it is those players that allow the young talents to grow and this team needs some maturity. The timing of casting this vets off is also important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 Yea, I don't know why everyone keeps talking about being in the middle of a rebuild. The fact is, we possibly have the assets in place to be a contender this year and definitely going forward after that. Most of the "-building" part of "re-building" is done. Now it's just development as far as I'm concerned. This year wasn't just luck, IMO. The thing that ended up holding us back was a lack of depth, a deficiency that we have largely addressed over the past month. Let's make the moves necessary to compete for a cup over the next 5 years. I think we lucked out to a certain extent but with a solid work ethic and effort we stayed in the picture. You mention depth and that for me better describes a rebuilding and there is work to be done in order to provide the main team step in players. The main team had a good mix that allowed the young guys some room and the vets to also contribute but even now if some key players went down we would be in a scramble. The experienced gained last year will bode well into this year and everyone will be hungry to reach playoff hockey again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 Stajan, Jones, Smid, Raymond, Engelland are $20mil in cap. Gio's hit matters zero if we can lose the real dilemma of overpaying low upside players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 Stajan, Jones, Smid, Raymond, Engelland are $20mil in cap. Gio's hit matters zero if we can lose the real dilemma of overpaying low upside players. Not quite true. Jones is the only one that would come off in year 1 of a Gio extension. Frees up $4m. Year 2 is better though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 The cap went up this year because the players chose to use their right to increase it by 5%, if they had not done that there was speculation it would at best stagnate if not go down. There was a lot of talk that players are getting sick of doing that because of how much of their salaries they lose to escrow, so it isn't a guarantee they will do that again in the future. That means any future increase caused by revenue first has to make up the difference between where it "should" be this year and where it is. The dollar is also starting much lower and will likely average lower then it did last hockey season because of that. If Hillar and Ramo are surpased you don't think Ortio will want a raise which could make him less affordable? as of today only the Ducks (~3.5mm), Leafs (2.3mm with only 1 goalie signed), and capitals (2mm, Holtby is not signed, once he is the backup cost will be 1mm unless they plan on carrying 3 goalies) are paying less then 4mm for their top 2 goaltenders. I would bet that after Burnier and Holtby sign that will go to only being the ducks. I still believe my 4mm in goaltending is pretty conservative. I fully agree with the people who want to sign him at all costs on a standalone basis. Most people seem to agree that long term it will probably turn into a bad contract as it nears the end. The point I am trying to make is you have to consider the fall out from signing him on the team in the short term as well because it isn't as simple as he is worth x so pay him x. Well, if the salary cap goes down next year, then i'm certain Gaudreau and Monahan's next contract won't be Tarasenko's level because every team would be trimming salaries and have no room to add contracts and threaten offer sheets. In that scenario, we may actually see a 2 or 3 year bridge deal, or more precisely, a "wait-for-the-economy-to-come-back" deal, in the neighbourhood of $4-mil-per each. Which then brightens the salary situation for the Flames from that perspective. You're predicting $6.75-mil-per because of current economics but if it the economy tanks, then bridge deals may be a fair way for the player to ride out bad economic times and then negotiate a bigger contract when the salary cap is on the up and up again. Anyways, we are both assuming a lot of things here in the coming 2 to 5 years when making our assertions such as the salary cap, Giordano's output, the Flames's Cup window timing/length, how to afford a good supporting cast, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 Not quite true. Jones is the only one that would come off in year 1 of a Gio extension. Frees up $4m. Year 2 is better though. And sadly, Jones is the only 1 I'm okay with overpaying. But it does go to show just how fickle you have to be with your bottom 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 And sadly, Jones is the only 1 I'm okay with overpaying. But it does go to show just how fickle you have to be with your bottom 6. Overpaying Jones doesn't make much sense. I think he works right now, because we don't have too many natural RW, and those we have are not equal in terms of skill. We have the luxury of paying $4m to have a 3rd/4th line grinding forward. For some reason, he was never able to put up really good offensive numbers, although last year did put up 14-16-30. If he was able to catch the magic again playing with some young forwards (Ferland-Bennett-Jones), he could become a valuable asset. I will need to reserve judgement until this year is underway before I know if he is worth bringing back at a reduced contract value ($3m/2 years or something reasonable). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 I would prefer him at 2.5m, but I think I am starting to look cheap. Haha, it's hard to keep a lot of these guys under the cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 I would prefer him at 2.5m, but I think I am starting to look cheap. Haha, it's hard to keep a lot of these guys under the cap. Jones is a guy that battles hard. But he was part of the transition roster. If any rookie (Poirier, Arnold) passes him on the depth chart, he will be gone by TDL or let walk in the off-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Yup, I was just responding to what would sign him to. For me that's too high. Unless you meant 3 for 2 years with an AAV of 1.5m. Then sure. I prefer it that he is replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
420since1974 Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Jones' value to the Flames is not so much a goal scorer, as it is being an important member of the shutdown line. Calgary needs someone who can/will play those hard minutes at closer to $2M/yr. than $4M/yr. (maybe Colborne or Jooris?). I'd sooner replace Jones from within than re-sign him after 2015/2016. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flames_Dynasty Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 I just have a quick question and would like feedback on if this would work. What about a backend loaded contract for Giordano? Something like 45/6 yrs with 4/yr signing bonus. This would net him a guaranteed $24 mil even if he was bought out with a salary of (1,2,3,4,5,6), which turns out to be $14 mil guaranteed even if he doesn't play a game under the new contract. A contract under this structure also does not have any cap recapture penalties if he is bought out as we don't get any cap savings until the last two years. I see Giordano having somewhere between 4 & 6yrs of good hockey in front of him so that would net him either $40 mil if he plays 4 more years ($13.3 mil cap hit) or $43 mil if he plays 6 yrs ($8.6 mil cap hit) and if he makes the whole 7yr ($7.5 mil cap hit) to the end of the contract he gets $45 mil. it would only take $0.5/yr of signing bonus to get this to $8 mil cap hit, which would pay him and Hamilton the same in the first yr on the deal. Just curious if this would work and how would the buyout work against the cap given we didn't save any money during the time in which he plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crzydrvr Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 I just have a quick question and would like feedback on if this would work. What about a backend loaded contract for Giordano? Something like 45/6 yrs with 4/yr signing bonus. This would net him a guaranteed $24 mil even if he was bought out with a salary of (1,2,3,4,5,6), which turns out to be $14 mil guaranteed even if he doesn't play a game under the new contract. A contract under this structure also does not have any cap recapture penalties if he is bought out as we don't get any cap savings until the last two years. I see Giordano having somewhere between 4 & 6yrs of good hockey in front of him so that would net him either $40 mil if he plays 4 more years ($13.3 mil cap hit) or $43 mil if he plays 6 yrs ($8.6 mil cap hit) and if he makes the whole 7yr ($7.5 mil cap hit) to the end of the contract he gets $45 mil. it would only take $0.5/yr of signing bonus to get this to $8 mil cap hit, which would pay him and Hamilton the same in the first yr on the deal. Just curious if this would work and how would the buyout work against the cap given we didn't save any money during the time in which he plays. The Flames have enough money that they don't have to worry about cap recapture in this case. Not to mention that cap recapture applies to money earned in total, so just giving him higher bonuses won't change the value as far as I know. I get the general idea of your point though (at least I think I do). Pay him relatively even throughout so that the last two years won't make a difference if he retires early. Give enough of it in the form of a signing bonus so that it doesn't get affected by the escrow payments. If I had the choice, I'd throw everything at him and see how interested he'd be in one of these deals: 3-year deal for $23.25 m, with an AAV of $7.75 m: Year 1: $8.5 million salary ($5 million in signing bonus payable on July 1st) Year 2: $7.75 million salary ($3 million in signing bonus) Year 3: $7 million salary ($2.25 million in signing bonus, for a total of $10.25 million in non-escrowed money) 4-year deal for $29.4 m, with an AAV of $7.35 m: Year 1: $8.05 million salary ($7 million in signing bonus payable on July 1st)[limited NTC if needed] Year 2: $7.6 million ($5.5 million in signing bonus on July 1st)[limited NTC if needed] Year 3: $7.5 milion ($5 million in signing bonus)[NTC expires June 20th prior to Year 3] Year 4: $6.25 million ($1 million in signing bonus, for a total of $18.5 million in non-escrowed money) 5-year deal for $34.5 million, with an AAV of $6.9 m: Year 1: $8 million salary ($7 million in signing bonus payable on July 1st)[limited NTC if needed] Year 2: $7 million ($5.5 million in signing bonus) Year 3: $7 million ($4.5 million in signing bonus) Year 4: $7 million ($4.5 million in signing bonus)[limited NTC ends prior to Year 4] Year 5: $5.5 million ($4 million in signing bonus, for a total of $25.5 million in non-escrowed money) 7 year deal for $43.05 million, with an AAV of $6.15 m: Y1: $8 million salary ($7 m in signing bonus) Y2: $6.75 million ($5 m in signing bonus) Y3: $6.75 million ($5 m in signing bonus) Y4: $6.15 million ($4.55 m in signing bonus)[limited NTC ends prior to Year 4] Y5: $6.15 million ($4 m in signing bonus) Y6: $5 million ($3.5 m in signing bonus) Y7: $4 million ($1.5 m in signing bonus, for a total of $30.55 m in non-escrowed money) 8 year deal for $46.8 million, with an AAV of $5.85 m: Y1: $7 million ($6 m in signing bonus) Y2: $7 million ($6 m in signing bonus) Y3: $6.5 million ($5.5 m in signing bonus)[limited NTC ends prior to year 3] Y4: $3.85 million ($2.75 m in signing bonus) Y5: $3.75 million ($2.75 m in signing bonus) Y6: $6 million ($5 m in signing bonus) Y7: $6.35 million ($5 m in signing bonus, for a total of $33 m in non-escrowed money) Y8: $6.35 million 9 year deal for $49.05 m, with an AAV of $5.45 m: Y1: $7 m ($6 m in signing bonus) Y2: $7 m ($6 m in signing bonus)[limited NTC ends prior to Year 2] Y3: $6.8 m ($5.75 m in signing bonus) Y4: $6.25 m ($5.25 m in signing bonus) Y5: $4 m ($3 m in signing bonus) Y6: $3.75 m ($2.75 m in signing bonus) Y7: $3.75 m ($2.75 in signing bonus) Y8: $5.25 m ($3.5 m in signing bonus) Y9: $5.25 m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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