Flames22 Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 According to TSN, the Flames have began talking with Giordano about a contract extension. The initial offer from Giordano is reported to be at $9 million dollars/season. http://www.tsn.ca/getting-giordano-inked-atop-flames-to-do-list-1.316831 While I realize that Giordano is a good player, I for one do not think that he is worth $9 million a season. This would be more than Sidney Crosby, and the contract would not kick in until Giordano is almost 33 years old. For me, he does not deserve this, especially when taking into account his injury history. Another aspect to consider is that the Flames proved that they can still win without him, as shown by their playoff push last season. I also realize that his price will most likely go down from $9 mil by the time the talks are finished, however I still foresee issues with the reported contract. This begs the question, should the Flames consider cashing in on Giordano's good season, and trade him this offseason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 He has two elite seasons. He missed around 25 percent in each of them. Love the guy, but he isn't worth Subban dollars. But it's early in a negotiation. I doubt the number stays there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tachaudh Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 Depends on what the term is. If he's asking for a 3 year deal at 9 million I got no problem signing him to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 I previously predicted $8-mil-per for 5-years if i'm not mistaken. No one agrees it "should" be that but i think we can all agree now that it "will" be that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cccsberg Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 According to TSN, the Flames have began talking with Giordano about a contract extension. The initial offer from Giordano is reported to be at $9 million dollars/season. http://www.tsn.ca/getting-giordano-inked-atop-flames-to-do-list-1.316831 While I realize that Giordano is a good player, I for one do not think that he is worth $9 million a season. This would be more than Sidney Crosby, and the contract would not kick in until Giordano is almost 33 years old. For me, he does not deserve this, especially when taking into account his injury history. Another aspect to consider is that the Flames proved that they can still win without him, as shown by their playoff push last season. I also realize that his price will most likely go down from $9 mil by the time the talks are finished, however I still foresee issues with the reported contract. This begs the question, should the Flames consider cashing in on Giordano's good season, and trade him this offseason? Its a reported starting ask, which isn't out of line with others of his status. I'm assuming it'll come down considerably in discussions, and of course a lot depends on the Term as well. He has two elite seasons. He missed around 25 percent in each of them. Love the guy, but he isn't worth Subban dollars. But it's early in a negotiation. I doubt the number stays there. Subban's not worth Subban dollars either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 So, how about... To LEAFS, Mark Giordano Jiri Hudler 2015 1st round pick (15th) (Leafs retain some Kessel salary) To FLAMES, Phil Kessel 2015 1st round pick (Flames draft either Hanifin or Provorov) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 I would be fine with a short term contract at that price. I just don't see it happening. Even a 3 year contract bring him to 35 and it's tough to get a bug 35+ contract. I doubt he does one that is 9x2. Giordano is going to want term. At least 4 years, probably 5. 9x5 is too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tachaudh Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 So, how about... To LEAFS, Mark Giordano Jiri Hudler 2015 1st round pick (15th) (Leafs retain some Kessel salary) To FLAMES, Phil Kessel 2015 1st round pick (Flames draft either Hanifin or Provorov) Why are you wanting to deal Hudler so bad? In any event, I think the Flames are trying to build a culture here and that forms a significant part in winning. The only way I deal Gio is if he doesn't want to sign here otherwise I'm signing him. The other thing is Mitch Marner or Dylan Strome are available at 4. Marner scored more points than McDavid this year. No way Toronto trades that pick unless they get Johnny or Monny in return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crzydrvr Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 Hopefully he gets somewhere in the ballpark of 8 million per for 4 years. Rightly or wrongly, he's more than earned the money. And given the cap savings we've had from his cheap contract, he'll want to cash in. Ideally he'd get somewhere around 7 to 7.5 million for 5 years (or less) but that isn't happening anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 I would be fine with a short term contract at that price. I just don't see it happening. Even a 3 year contract bring him to 35 and it's tough to get a bug 35+ contract. I doubt he does one that is 9x2. Giordano is going to want term. At least 4 years, probably 5. 9x5 is too much. A contract that starts before he's 35 doesn't count as a 35+ contract. If injured insurance covers while on LTIR until he decides to retire without penalty. So, I'd give as much term with the $s on a sliding scale as the rules allow. Something like 10,10, 9, 7, 7, 5 & 5 over 7 years for a hit of 7.57. 1st 5 years carry a 3 million signing bonus & final 2 years the bonus is 2 (counts against salary) but after collecting July 1 of year 6 he only leaves 8 million on the table of the 53 so has made 45 in 5 should he decide to retire. The #s can be rearranged if they don't fit the rules but make them average 8-9 in real $s with the last few years bringing the cap down so he can retire if he wants. Over 8 years Gio has made 22.775 for an average of 2.85 so I don't blame him for wanting a retirement contract now that he's is a position to cash in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 I meant that he wants term because if he signed 3 years his next contract will be 35+. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 I suspect that he will sign for $7.5 over 3 or 4. I would be fine with that. As a late bloomer, he still has a lot left in him. I doubt the Flames will trade him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 It's all PR. When the season ended, there were many fans who were "adamant" they wouldn't go more than 7-mil-per for 3 years with Giordano. Completely adamant. Hearing that, both sides in negotiations have begun a propaganda program to break down and rebuild the fan's salary expectations for Giordano because it's important the fan accept any new deal for Giordano who is the captain of this team. They begin to change the fan's mind by pounding a high number down their throats over and over again for an extended period of time. And it has begun and this is only the beginning. Giordano and Treliving will never directly say $9-mil-per but they will speak through the media and other indirect methods of communication with their fanbase. Reporters will always use $9-mil-per in their articles and reports but Giordano and Treliving will continue to refuse commenting directly on specific numbers. Eventually, the fan will begin to play with the team's cap numbers and situation with Giordano at $9-mil-per. This activity alters the fan's subconscious thinking and makes the fan consider alternative scenarios like trading Giordano and/or worrying about fading skills long term. When the alternative doesn't look as good as keeping Giordano at all costs, the fan begins to accept whatever deal is presented to them. They will rationalize Giordano at $9-mil-per and consider cost savings elsewhere. Stage 1 Complain Stage 2 Realize this might be real Stage 3 Begin to budget for the worst Stage 4 Rationalize that it's not too bad Stage 5 Accept After all this. After fans get desensitized to $9-mil-per and their minds get "trained" to accept a high number, Giordano will come in at $8-mil-per for 5-years and it's deemed a fair deal by fans and media. Giordano will appear to have taken a hometown discount and Treliving will be applauded for great negotiation skills. It will appear to be a win-win on both sides and it will be a job well done by the PR group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Not surprising at all. Gio is worth right around 8 on a 3 or 4 year deal so for his camp to start at 9 is not a shock. Anyone who thinks Gio is getting less than 7 I think it out to lunch. 4 years around 30-32 mill would be ideal IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 I think he wants long term. I bet he is asking for about 5-6 years. Is this circumventing the cap? YR 1) 8M YR 2) 8M YR 3) 8M YR 4) 6M YR 5) 4M YR 6) 4M YR 7) 2M YR 8) 2M ------------ TTL 42M / 8 = Ave Cap 5.25M It would be projecting what he's worth at the age of each year of his contract, and giving him long term stability. It then gives us a decent cap hit. But it gives him elite money while he's still elite, and in age, it reflects the years he may decline? I doubt he'd go for it. Not that I think he wants that long of a term, but if we gave him the full 8 years he's allowed? Although a 5 year at the structure would give him a cap hit of 6.8M/Yr. Then if we re-sign him, we could contract him out to 1 year deals and at whatever he's worth, making the cap hit only large for those 5 seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 I think he wants long term. I bet he is asking for about 5-6 years. Is this circumventing the cap? YR 1) 8M YR 2) 8M YR 3) 8M YR 4) 6M YR 5) 4M YR 6) 4M YR 7) 2M YR 8) 2M ------------ TTL 42M / 8 = Ave Cap 5.25M It would be projecting what he's worth at the age of each year of his contract, and giving him long term stability. It then gives us a decent cap hit. But it gives him elite money while he's still elite, and in age, it reflects the years he may decline? I doubt he'd go for it. Not that I think he wants that long of a term, but if we gave him the full 8 years he's allowed? Although a 5 year at the structure would give him a cap hit of 6.8M/Yr. Then if we re-sign him, we could contract him out to 1 year deals and at whatever he's worth, making the cap hit only large for those 5 seasons. That's not allowed anymore. Can't have a year to year variance if over 20% and can cant go below 50% of the first year salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darth_henning Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 I think a fair value to both sides is as follows: Year 1 (15-16) - age 32 - 9mil Year 2 (16-17) - age 33 - 9mil Year 3 (17-18) - age 34 - 8mil Year 4 (18-19) - age 35 - 7mil Year 5 (19-20) - age 36 - 6mil Year 6 (20-21) - age 37 - 5mil That follows salary cap rules. Gives us term on Gio, and pays him what he's worth and asking for for the next two years. But it also gives us more cap space in the future, and the ability to trade him later in the contract if necessary. It still averages out to 7.3 million over 6 years, which is pretty fair given his age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 I thought his first year of his new contract he was going to be 33… OOPS I wonder if he will get 9M I am hoping closer to 8M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Its a reported starting ask, which isn't out of line with others of his status. I'm assuming it'll come down considerably in discussions, and of course a lot depends on the Term as well. Subban's not worth Subban dollars either. LOL I read that above and was going to say the same thing about Subban. I really hope Flames management doesn't join the stupidity of these inflated contracts for one person. I think Giordano is great for this team and deserves somewhere between 6 and 7M however if his agent pushes this higher figure I would take his salary into next season and trade him at the deadline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Tribal Chief Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Most times i dont beileve half the crap that comes from tsn i doubt he has asked for 9mil wont beileve it till the flames say it or Giordano says it personally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andymo Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Giordano has definitely earned his big pay day but we have to be careful on term. If he won't budge from 6 or more years at more than $7M, I think we should seriously consider trade options. We will be a cap team within 3 years and we cannot afford to be paying a severely declining asset a superstar's wage for years, as we have seen so many teams do. I would be looking at no more than a 4 year contract, taking him up to 37 years old. It may turn out (and I hope it does) that he continues at or near this level way beyond then, but equally,or indeed, more likely, he does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flamespatriot Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 I wouldn't mind paying him 9 mill the first season of his contract, but not for 5 years straight. He's a great player, but he can't play a full season. I doubt that he wants 9 or 8 million anyways. I see him signing a 6.5 or 7 million for the first three years of his contract, and then 3 or 4 million for the later years of his contract. I just can't see him getting paid more then Iginla did . Also Treliving needs to budget for Johnny, Monahan, bennet, and dougie. They will want some real money in the 16-17 season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cccsberg Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 As Giordano is our Captain and leader it would be nice if his contract is the first done and the rest like Hamilton and FA come after. Since he can't sign before July 1st I'm hoping we wake up tomorrow with news his contract is done and we have the news release. The more it drags out the more difficult other things become, both to get done and also because we don't have a goalpost reference point for other deals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andymo Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 The urgency to get this done first should not really exist. Gio has a year left and the free-agents are free-agents. But I think Treliving recognises that this could be a long a and complicated negotiation and both sides need to establish their demands soo everybody knows where they stand. If we can get Giordano tied to a 3 or four year deal, this sets us up with a great defense over that period. But his agent will know he can get 7 years as top dollar as a UFA, and if he draws his line in the sand at term, this could be a big sticking point. If Giordan signs long-term at £7.5M, we will be paying 3 defensemen $17.9M until 2020! Only Montreal pay thei top 3 that much and only Subban and Petry are signed long term. And we still have Wideman at .25 er for the next two years. With a huge raise in the bill for our forwards expected over the next few years, something has to give. And if Giordano wants 6-8 years, you have to consider he will be good value for only a portion of that, and for some of that he could be a diminished asset. This might not be a nice way to think about our captain who has just had an amazing year, but it is something that must be considered when looking at term. That is why, whilst I believe he will be resigned, I also think there is a real chance he is traded before the deadline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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