Flames & Losing For Higher Draft Order.

[DirtyDeeds]

With Detroit have 5 centers out of the lineup with injuries hasn't helped much in this years playoff race ...

[jjgallow]

With Detroit have 5 centers out of the lineup with injuries hasn't helped much in this years playoff race ...

I've often wondered how the city's financial problems could affect the Red Wings as well. It's not cheap always being a contender.

[lordxan]

Would you trade Baertschi and our 1st for a chance at any of those top3? or another of our prospects?

Or maybe Gaudreau and our 1st? For any of the top 3 picks?

No, not this year.  Hayden Fleury looks to be some kind of a solid Dman.  So if we draft in the top 5 we should grab him.  Pending, i'd consider trading down a few spots to grab an extra later round pick.  But only if the risk of missing him is slim.

 

As for Beartschi and or Gaudreau, I would definitely consider moving one of the two in next year.  We just have too many smallish guys and need to get a top line Pwr Fwd  or two.  

 

However, Bear's stock has dropped this year so we need to let him develop more and hopefully play well next season to bring his stock back up.  Bear, while I do like the kid, I think may be better off elsewhere, unless we can move out some vets like Cammy and Hudler.  I doubt both Hudler and Cammy are out next season.  Another option would be to move GlenX, but he's a Pwr Fwd so that would be a move in the wrong direction. 

 

As for Gaudreau, I'd be looking at Bos, they seem to have a ton of interest in him, BUT only if the return is huge, something like Lucic and a 1st I'd do for Gaudreau.  Kid has a huge upside potential, so that would be a starting point for him, otherwise we are better off keeping Gaudreau, he may turn into our St. Louis.

[tmac70]

I am not opposed to trading anyone, I for one would like to see the abilities of Gadreau before we decide to ship him out. At present he has to much unknown about him at the NHL level. He has excelled at every level,  seems to have great prospects camps. 

 

That said if the return is huge than sure however not sure anyone over pays for unproven talent right now. 

[The_People1]

As for Gaudreau, I'd be looking at Bos, they seem to have a ton of interest in him, BUT only if the return is huge, something like Lucic and a 1st I'd do for Gaudreau.  Kid has a huge upside potential, so that would be a starting point for him, otherwise we are better off keeping Gaudreau, he may turn into our St. Louis.

 

The starting point for Gaudreau is Lucic + 1st? 

 

[FlamesLogic]

If Flames happen to not get a top 3 pick I would rather they trade down to a point where they feel comfortable taking Jake Virtanen. Goal scoring power forward that showcased the best skating ability at the CHL top prospects game. Plays for the hitmen, born in abbotsford. Fits a prospect need.

 

Guy seems destined to be a flame. Return to WHL next year and then 2 more years of maturing in AHL and I think the flames would have a very scary top 6 winger

[cross16]

Trying reversing that trade. I'm not sure a first and Gaudrea would get you Lucic....

[Flyerfan52]

As for Gaudreau, I'd be looking at Bos, they seem to have a ton of interest in him, BUT only if the return is huge, something like Lucic and a 1st I'd do for Gaudreau.  Kid has a huge upside potential, so that would be a starting point for him, otherwise we are better off keeping Gaudreau, he may turn into our St. Louis.

 

Did you have the 1st on the wrong side of the offer?

[SheriforPM]

I wouldn't trade Gaudreau. Period. Why? For a Lucic? Yes he is good but he is not a game breaker, nor is he that franchise player. He is a piece of a puzzle. 

People are way to eager to give up prospects here. 

[FlamesLogic]

Only reason to deal Gaudreau is if for some reason he wont sign here and we need to deal him before he does a Justin Schultz.

[lordxan]

 

Did you have the 1st on the wrong side of the offer?

No but forgot to add one, was supose to be a flip of picks, Bos gets a higher 1st we go lower.  Oops!

 

On a side note, it's looking more and more like we'll be picking 5th.  Which is the highest we have ever had, but to be perfectly honest, trading down and taking Hayden Fleury would be a wise move in this year's draft, get an extra asset out of moving down and get a guy which would fill a huge hole on our blue line.  

 

Thing about Fleury is he keeps improving every game, and brings that tough grit we have been missing since Phaneuf.  While he's not a super star D, he's solid which is the main thing, easily a 2-4 d guy who can fill a top 2 spot if needed.  Provides that extra insurance on the blue line.  While Eklbad (sp?) would be a top 2 D, we are simply out of the running, so to get that stud D will have to come from a trade at this point, because I see Cgy trending up in the standings with the current crop of young guys we have, it's a solid group to build a new young core around.

 

That said, they may not all be super stars but they are a very solid group, which, let's face it can often be better than a bunch of overpaid superstars.  I'm good with that.

Only reason to deal Gaudreau is if for some reason he wont sign here and we need to deal him before he does a Justin Schultz.

I have to disagree, if we get a great deal for him then you move him.  Hockey is a team game, so one guy will not make or break your team.  If Burke gets a great deal which makes sense for Cgy then you trade Gaudreau.

 

Again, you only move him for the right return.  Cgy has no need to move him so there would have to be a huge over payment.

[lordxan]

The starting point for Gaudreau is Lucic + 1st? 

 

I got ahead of myself on that, flip 1 st and Lucic.  Bos gets a higher 1st and Guadreau, Cgy gets Lucic and a lower 1st.  Is it over payment?  Hell yes, but that is the point, Gaudreau is potentially just that good, and that is why this would be a starting point.  Sure he us unproven at the NHL level, but so too was Iggy back in the day and we paid a good price to get him, point is, potential is a gamble but the reward often out weighs the risk.  If you want that potential you will pay for it.

 

Personally, I'd much rather hold on to Gaudreau, but as mentioned, flip 1sts and add Lucic, that would be worth consideration.

[FlamesLogic]

I got ahead of myself on that, flip 1 st and Lucic.  Bos gets a higher 1st and Guadreau, Cgy gets Lucic and a lower 1st.  Is it over payment?  Hell yes, but that is the point, Gaudreau is potentially just that good, and that is why this would be a starting point.  Sure he us unproven at the NHL level, but so too was Iggy back in the day and we paid a good price to get him, point is, potential is a gamble but the reward often out weighs the risk.  If you want that potential you will pay for it.

 

Personally, I'd much rather hold on to Gaudreau, but as mentioned, flip 1sts and add Lucic, that would be worth consideration.

It would but why in the world would Boston make that deal?

[lordxan]

Its not that simple, Burke needs to trade away some of the veterans and bring up more youth, that will make the team lose more. Hartley needs to keep the team on a losing is unacceptable attitude. Losing purposefully just makes the team wind up as the Oilers, all high picks and poor team attitude. 

Gotta agree with you on this, added, over the past few years our scouting team has been showing some really good results in later picks so...If we end up with 5th overall, trade down and get Hayden Fleury and some extra assets why the hell not, I would say that is a very good draft day if you nab Fleury and a later 2nd or 3rd round pick.  Heck trade down offer our extra 3rd we got in the Stempy deal and then we have 3 second round picks, could even flip two of those and Cammy for another 1st round pick who knows?

 

Point is, anything can happen at the draft if you work it, and Burke likes to work those picks, so I'm cautiously waiting to see what he can do with the 5th overall, last year we drafted 6th and got Mony who could be a 20 goal scorer in his rookie season on a weak team, so anything is possible.  

 

And yes i'm super high on Fleury just as i was on Mony and that turned out quite well, so my money is on Fleury via a trade down at around the 8th pick, and Fleury works out to be a solid 3-4 D for a long time in Cgy...Should be fun to see how close (if at all) on this prediction.

[The_People1]

I got ahead of myself on that, flip 1 st and Lucic.  Bos gets a higher 1st and Guadreau, Cgy gets Lucic and a lower 1st.  Is it over payment?  Hell yes, but that is the point, Gaudreau is potentially just that good, and that is why this would be a starting point.  Sure he us unproven at the NHL level, but so too was Iggy back in the day and we paid a good price to get him, point is, potential is a gamble but the reward often out weighs the risk.  If you want that potential you will pay for it.

 

Personally, I'd much rather hold on to Gaudreau, but as mentioned, flip 1sts and add Lucic, that would be worth consideration.

 

That's a fairer trade suggestion but of course, the Bruins will be in re-tool mode if they trade Lucic and since the East is wide open, I think the Bruins should go for the Cup now.

 

But from a Flames perspective, keep the 1st and keep Gaudreau.

 

i still think we should tank but Ortio is going to win us out of a top 4 pick. 

[Flyerfan52]

No but forgot to add one, was supose to be a flip of picks, Bos gets a higher 1st we go lower.  Oops!

 

On a side note, it's looking more and more like we'll be picking 5th.  Which is the highest we have ever had, but to be perfectly honest, trading down and taking Hayden Fleury would be a wise move in this year's draft, get an extra asset out of moving down and get a guy which would fill a huge hole on our blue line.  

 

Thing about Fleury is he keeps improving every game, and brings that tough grit we have been missing since Phaneuf.  While he's not a super star D, he's solid which is the main thing, easily a 2-4 d guy who can fill a top 2 spot if needed.  Provides that extra insurance on the blue line.  While Eklbad (sp?) would be a top 2 D, we are simply out of the running, so to get that stud D will have to come from a trade at this point, because I see Cgy trending up in the standings with the current crop of young guys we have, it's a solid group to build a new young core around.

 

That said, they may not all be super stars but they are a very solid group, which, let's face it can often be better than a bunch of overpaid superstars.  I'm good with that.

I have to disagree, if we get a great deal for him then you move him.  Hockey is a team game, so one guy will not make or break your team.  If Burke gets a great deal which makes sense for Cgy then you trade Gaudreau.

 

Again, you only move him for the right return.  Cgy has no need to move him so there would have to be a huge over payment.

That makes more sense.

 

It could also work as Boston will have about 9 million (less if as rumored the cap doesn't go to 70 million) with 17 players signed for next year. Dropping Lucic's 6 million while adding Gaudreau & flipping picks gives them room while getting 2 young assets. As long as we're not on his limited NTC list it makes sense.

@ 25 Lucic could be here a long time. He doesn't have great hands but he's hard to play against. I see him as a throwback type of power forward. A little older then our youth with a SC ring he'd be a good 1 for them to emulate. The 6 million brings us closer to the cap floor so we can continue test driving the youth & not have to throw short term money @ a UFA we really don't want/need.

 

I haven't really seen Hayden Fleury but everything I've read makes him sound like he'd become @ least a good 2nd pairing guy. Some of you see him regularly & the 1st hand reports sound good. It'd take some fancy footwork for BB to trade our top 5 pick, drop to likely late 20s & then back up to around 10 (last spot I saw Fleury's name) but he's done similar. He'd have the Bruins 1st, our 2nd (probably 33-35) & the Colorado 2nd to work with. There are also the 2 picks in the 3rd to mix up the right cocktail.

 

If BB accomplishes those 2 moves I'd call the 2014 draft a success.

That's a fairer trade suggestion but of course, the Bruins will be in re-tool mode if they trade Lucic and since the East is wide open, I think the Bruins should go for the Cup now.

 

But from a Flames perspective, keep the 1st and keep Gaudreau.

 

i still think we should tank but Ortio is going to win us out of a top 4 pick. 

The Bruins are going for the Cup now.

If you look @ the rest of their roster they can afford to drop Lucic & still be a contender/favorite. They drop 1 player & add 2 that they can ease into the lineup.

[DirtyDeeds]

That's a fairer trade suggestion but of course, the Bruins will be in re-tool mode if they trade Lucic and since the East is wide open, I think the Bruins should go for the Cup now.

 

But from a Flames perspective, keep the 1st and keep Gaudreau.

 

i still think we should tank but Ortio is going to win us out of a top 4 pick. 

This is really an unfair thing to say People.. I am so disappointed to see this statement from you....

 

Hockey is a team game. If anyone deserves blame or credit it is the team not a rookie goaltender. You are sitting here pointing a finger at one player and blaming him for winning??? and winning us out of a higher draft pick????

[Flyerfan52]

This is really an unfair thing to say People.. I am so disappointed to see this statement from you....

 

Hockey is a team game. If anyone deserves blame or credit it is the team not a rookie goaltender. You are sitting here pointing a finger at one player and blaming him for winning??? and winning us out of a higher draft pick????

Could be worse. He could be urging us to hope Ortio gets hurt.

[The_People1]

This is really an unfair thing to say People.. I am so disappointed to see this statement from you....

 

Hockey is a team game. If anyone deserves blame or credit it is the team not a rookie goaltender. You are sitting here pointing a finger at one player and blaming him for winning??? and winning us out of a higher draft pick????

Could be worse. He could be urging us to hope Ortio gets hurt.

 

Um, sensitive much?  FF52, that's such a low blow.

 

My comments were a compliment to the Flames scouting, drafting, and player development crew that's been producing results.  I don't want to jinx it but Ortio looks like a stud who at some point in the future can steal us an entire playoff round by himself.   This is a great thing and one of the first signals, to me anyways, that the Flames rebuild will be short.  And, that's not entirely bad.

 

When it comes to this season however, i obviously still cheer for "Reinhart + 28/29/30th overall" vs "Draisailt + 25/26/27th overall".  To me, you got to keep your eyes on the prize.  All this short term winning doesn't get us a bluechip long term impact player.

[DirtyDeeds]

Um, sensitive much?  FF52, that's such a low blow.

 

My comments were a compliment to the Flames scouting, drafting, and player development crew that's been producing results.  I don't want to jinx it but Ortio looks like a stud who at some point in the future can steal us an entire playoff round by himself.   This is a great thing and one of the first signals, to me anyways, that the Flames rebuild will be short.  And, that's not entirely bad.

 

When it comes to this season however, i obviously still cheer for "Reinhart + 28/29/30th overall" vs "Draisailt + 25/26/27th overall".  To me, you got to keep your eyes on the prize.  All this short term winning doesn't get us a bluechip long term impact player.

There is no guarantee that losing will get you a bluechip long term impact player either.

[FlamesLogic]

Burke on tanking for mcdavid: http://www2.tsn.ca/window/podcastcentre/#id==29257&id=13

As it should be

[The_People1]

There is no guarantee that losing will get you a bluechip long term impact player either.

 

Touche.  No guarantees but it certainly increases the odds.  Reinhart/Bennett/Ekblad has better odds of becoming a bluechip impact prospect than those ranked 6th/7th/8th and beyond. 

 

Only guarantee is that 9th to 14th in the Conference means we miss the playoffs.

[The_People1]

Burke on tanking for mcdavid: http://www2.tsn.ca/window/podcastcentre/#id==29257&id=13

As it should be

 

He's not allowed to say otherwise.

[FlamesLogic]

Regardless of what he is allowed to say I believe what he says and I think its right.

 

That said there is a difference between setting your team to win as many games as it can and actually doing everything you can to win.

In situations like this Im sure the trainers are extra prudent in making sure an injured player like glenx or wideman, etc is 100% healthy before he plays a game.

You play the young guys a few more minutes per game than you would if you were say in a playoff game. You give them a chance on the PP. ie you shift the focus to putting players in a position to develop more so than maximizing potential to win the game.

You trade off veteran assets at deadline day, etc.

All things that arent tanking as you still want your team to win or play to win, but you do shift the odds of success a few points down in the hopes of developing them for a few extra points of success in future years.

[The_People1]

Regardless of what he is allowed to say I believe what he says and I think its right.

 

All we can conclude from the clip is that Burke says the right things.

 

Brian Burke also refused to rebuld in Toronto and that prompted the rushed trade for Kessel when he should've tanked one year first before attempting such a direction.   I think he's learned his lesson and will be more patient in Calgary than he was in T.O.  That's not to say he will be as patient as the Oilers, Islanders, etc.  But I do think he will be more patient than he was in Toronto.

 

When the team is playing bad and sliding down the standings, let it run its course.  Only when a glimmer of hope surfaces do you make the moves necessary to keep that momentum going to propel you over the hump.