DirtyDeeds Posted April 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2016 Not sure how you get that. If a team is the worst team in the league, even if they lose the lottery they get the 2nd pick (or first if the win the lottery). 2nd worst guarunteed 3rd pick or better, etc. This year we have 3 loto drawings. So the bottom team who finished last(likely Oilers again) could in theory end up with the 4th pick if all 3 loto picks go to other teams. But it also discourages team from intentionally sucking. The more games they win, even if they can't make the playoffs, the better their chance (marginally) of getting the 1st overall pick. The truly bad teams still get most of the best picks, and the teams that may be bad, but at least try to be competitive may get rewarded. That's also why I suggested the additional rule of "no more #1 picks while you still have your last one" so that should a bubble team get a top pick, they aren't helped by the lottery again if they just miss, which would then proportionally increase the chances of the other teams. We'd see a lot more competitive atmosphere in the league I think if teams were never really "out" of the mix of playing to win the most games possible. There should be some way to prevent teams from tanking for multiple #1 or multiple top 3 picks. The optics alone is pissing off a lot of fans, GM's, reporters and other teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted April 8, 2016 Report Share Posted April 8, 2016 Not sure how you get that. If a team is the worst team in the league, even if they lose the lottery they get the 2nd pick (or first if the win the lottery). 2nd worst guarunteed 3rd pick or better, etc. But it also discourages team from intentionally sucking. The more games they win, even if they can't make the playoffs, the better their chance (marginally) of getting the 1st overall pick. The truly bad teams still get most of the best picks, and the teams that may be bad, but at least try to be competitive may get rewarded. That's also why I suggested the additional rule of "no more #1 picks while you still have your last one" so that should a bubble team get a top pick, they aren't helped by the lottery again if they just miss, which would then proportionally increase the chances of the other teams. We'd see a lot more competitive atmosphere in the league I think if teams were never really "out" of the mix of playing to win the most games possible. In 2007 the Flyers were the run away worst team in the league. So bad they even lost the lottery. Top 3 draftees were Patrick Kane, James Van Reimsdyk & Kyle Turris. Did picking 2/3 help the Flyers or Coyotes? It depends on the depth of the draft & how teams rate players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted April 9, 2016 Report Share Posted April 9, 2016 In 2007 the Flyers were the run away worst team in the league. So bad they even lost the lottery. Top 3 draftees were Patrick Kane, James Van Reimsdyk & Kyle Turris. Did picking 2/3 help the Flyers or Coyotes? It depends on the depth of the draft & how teams rate players. Truth of the matter is these players are young kids not mature in their game, bodies and minds. They all have to keep that drive and desire alive in order to continue to grow and advance their talents, some do and some don't. Some hit their ceiling and they are no longer as good as they were in Junior or other leagues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted April 9, 2016 Report Share Posted April 9, 2016 Truth of the matter is these players are young kids not mature in their game, bodies and minds. They all have to keep that drive and desire alive in order to continue to grow and advance their talents, some do and some don't. Some hit their ceiling and they are no longer as good as they were in Junior or other leagues. James Van Riemsdyk is still a very good player [edit; albeit, very injury prone lately] and that was a bogus deal for Luke Schenn. Imagine JVR on a line with Claude Giroux these days. Bozak isn't terrible, but he isn't Giroux. Although, it really sucks that they didn't win the lotto and get Kane... Which ended up by far the best in that draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted April 9, 2016 Report Share Posted April 9, 2016 We pretty much know our odds after tonight. The worst we can do is 6th last in the final standings and the best we can do is 4th with a Columbus win and a loss by us. Who wins the tie breaker if we end up with the same points as the Jets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted April 9, 2016 Report Share Posted April 9, 2016 We pretty much know our odds after tonight. The worst we can do is 6th last in the final standings and the best we can do is 4th with a Columbus win and a loss by us. Who wins the tie breaker if we end up with the same points as the Jets? depends on your definition of win .. we finish higher in the standings than the Jets due to higher ROW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted April 9, 2016 Report Share Posted April 9, 2016 We pretty much know our odds after tonight. The worst we can do is 6th last in the final standings and the best we can do is 4th with a Columbus win and a loss by us. Who wins the tie breaker if we end up with the same points as the Jets? The Jets are ahead in the case of a tie. It depends on their final game if that holds up. The differential in goals has them up by 5 on us. The lotto picks will really determine where we finish for the 1st round picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted April 9, 2016 Report Share Posted April 9, 2016 The Jets are ahead in the case of a tie. It depends on their final game if that holds up. The differential in goals has them up by 5 on us. The lotto picks will really determine where we finish for the 1st round picks. I wasn't sure whether it was Gals For or Goals Differential that determined it as I noticed we could end up with the exact same record with the exact same ROW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted April 9, 2016 Report Share Posted April 9, 2016 depends on your definition of win .. we finish higher in the standings than the Jets due to higher ROW We are tied in ROW. We are 1 point back. If we get a OTL, Winnipeg is still ahead of us. If we win in the SO and WPG loses in OT or shootout, SPG is still ahead of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted April 9, 2016 Report Share Posted April 9, 2016 From here on out, after the season is over, it's anyone's guess on the lotto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted April 9, 2016 Report Share Posted April 9, 2016 I wasn't sure whether it was Gals For or Goals Differential that determined it as I noticed we could end up with the exact same record with the exact same ROW. That is the last tiebreaker. We split the season series, where you throw out one of the extra games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted April 9, 2016 Report Share Posted April 9, 2016 Cool beans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted April 10, 2016 Report Share Posted April 10, 2016 That Columbus win we need isn't looking good right now down 3-0 on 8 shots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted April 10, 2016 Report Share Posted April 10, 2016 OK that's better..3-3 lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted April 10, 2016 Report Share Posted April 10, 2016 The best we can do is 5th now, depending on the Jets game. We screwed ourselves over the opportunity to have CBJ leapfrog us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted April 10, 2016 Report Share Posted April 10, 2016 I stopped looking at the standings for those fighting for a Wildcard or in division battles. I didn't realize we were only 10 points out of the playoffs. I guess coming in to tonight we were 12 points out. But still. I guess in the end, 5 or 6 more wins this year would've done it for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darth_henning Posted April 10, 2016 Report Share Posted April 10, 2016 Its really sad. We're 10th in the league for goals for. And one of only 3 teams in the top 10 scorers not to make the playoffs (the others being Ottawa and Boston who was just eliminated today). But dead last (by 8) in goals against. We needed 5 more wins to be in realistically if one came against another bubble team. A difference of even 10 fewer goals against would have been enough for that (if not more) and that would only requires us to be 29th in the league. Its a sad illustration how we could have been in such a better position without even needing league-average tending. Just not Hillers "worst full-season save percentage in a decade" play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted April 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2016 Its really sad. We're 10th in the league for goals for. And one of only 3 teams in the top 10 scorers not to make the playoffs (the others being Ottawa and Boston who was just eliminated today). But dead last (by 8) in goals against. We needed 5 more wins to be in realistically if one came against another bubble team. A difference of even 10 fewer goals against would have been enough for that (if not more) and that would only requires us to be 29th in the league. Its a sad illustration how we could have been in such a better position without even needing league-average tending. Just not Hillers "worst full-season save percentage in a decade" play. While Hiller does deserve some blame, he does not deserve "all the blame". Ramo played terrible to start the season and Ortio with his limited play a bit later into the season did not look or play NHL calibre hockey either. Hiller had a .500 win record after the all star break. something none of the other goaltenders were close to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
420since1974 Posted April 10, 2016 Report Share Posted April 10, 2016 Thank you Winnipeg! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darth_henning Posted April 10, 2016 Report Share Posted April 10, 2016 While Hiller does deserve some blame, he does not deserve "all the blame". Ramo played terrible to start the season and Ortio with his limited play a bit later into the season did not look or play NHL calibre hockey either. Hiller had a .500 win record after the all star break. something none of the other goaltenders were close to. When he has the worst full-season save % in a decade, he deserves a lot of the blame. And honestly, had his play alone even matched Ramo or Ortio's improvement as the season wore on, we would be in the playoffs. All three tanked the first 5-8 games they played this year. The difference is both Ramo and Ortio stabilized around 0.91ish after their first 10 games. Hiller did not. Had Hiller even managed to parallel the trajectory of those two we are looking at playoffs. That's not to say that Ramo and Ortio don't have egg on them as well, but less so. Also I would say that since call-up baring a couple games Ortio has definitly looked like an NHL player. Not a great one, but not a bad one either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmac70 Posted April 10, 2016 Report Share Posted April 10, 2016 I don't cheer for loses but man it would have been great not to get a victory today. So unless we move up we are looking at a pretty good forward at 5th in Dubois, Nylander or Tkachuk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darth_henning Posted April 10, 2016 Report Share Posted April 10, 2016 Well lets hope some of Edmonton's notorious luck shifted south. ALso hypothetical: If Dallas does make the conference finals, is it worth it to package our pick, and their 1st rounder to move up if one of the teams will take it? I would think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tincup1 Posted April 10, 2016 Report Share Posted April 10, 2016 I don't cheer for loses but man it would have been great not to get a victory today. So unless we move up we are looking at a pretty good forward at 5th in Dubois, Nylander or Tkachuk. Or we could walk away with the best Dman in the draft. There are some pretty high end D like Joulevi. Regardless, the Flames are going to add a really good player somewhere around 5th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob1974 Posted April 10, 2016 Report Share Posted April 10, 2016 When he has the worst full-season save % in a decade, he deserves a lot of the blame. And honestly, had his play alone even matched Ramo or Ortio's improvement as the season wore on, we would be in the playoffs. All three tanked the first 5-8 games they played this year. The difference is both Ramo and Ortio stabilized around 0.91ish after their first 10 games. Hiller did not. Had Hiller even managed to parallel the trajectory of those two we are looking at playoffs. That's not to say that Ramo and Ortio don't have egg on them as well, but less so. Also I would say that since call-up baring a couple games Ortio has definitly looked like an NHL player. Not a great one, but not a bad one either. The one thing though is, you can't account for game situations when you say, just 10 less goals would get us an extra amount of wins. Every game is different. We can win 6-1 and then lose a bunch 2-1 games and less goals against will not matter. Any score can occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted April 10, 2016 Report Share Posted April 10, 2016 While Hiller does deserve some blame, he does not deserve "all the blame". Ramo played terrible to start the season and Ortio with his limited play a bit later into the season did not look or play NHL calibre hockey either. Hiller had a .500 win record after the all star break. something none of the other goaltenders were close to. Ramo was sent down after 6 games. in that time he started 2..TWO of them . yes, both losses, but one was over 40 shots and a .933 SV%. Once he was back he was over .900 very consistently Hiller on the other hand, not so much.. if its true what people say another 10 points put us back in the race, he easily is responsible for those Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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