Goaltending

[Pyromancer]

04/05/2015 Brad Thiessen (G) Adirondack DEL Recalled from loan by Calgary (NHL)

 

Flames recall goaltender Brad Thiessen - Calgary Flames Transactions - flames.nhl.com
 

Reinforcements on the way. Poor Adirondack gets no respect.

[JTech780]

04/05/2015 Brad Thiessen (G) Adirondack DEL Recalled from loan by Calgary (NHL)

Flames recall goaltender Brad Thiessen - Calgary Flames Transactions - flames.nhl.com

Reinforcements on the way. Poor Adirondack gets no respect.

What is Calgary supposed to do? Play with no backup goaltender?

[Pyromancer]

What is Calgary supposed to do? Play with no backup goaltender?

I think Kris Russell would be an excellent back-up.

He has more saves (BS) than this year's LA Kings backup; 275 to 260

Heck, in Edmonton, he might even be able to be the starter.

[Pyromancer]

Other options:

Jon Gillies - Providence Friars (NCAA) - Heading to Frozen Four - Earliest availability Friday; definitely Sunday

Joni Ortio - Adirondack Flames (AHL) - Availability unlikely due to injury.

Mason McDonald - Charlottetown Islanders (QMJHL): Lead Sherbrooke Phoenix 3-2 - Availability unlikely due to injury.

[jjgallow]

What is Calgary supposed to do? Play with no backup goaltender?

 

For sure, they had no choice.

 

But for them to get to this situation illustrates a lack of depth and/or some poor decisions.

 

Ie., not signing Gillies last year,

 

over-playing Ortio without a serious additional prospect.

 

Not drafting that well with goaltenders, to be honest, since ortio/gillies

 

Not acquiring any other additional prospects.

 

 

So, yes, they cannot be faulted for their current actions.  

 

Questioning how we got here, imho, is fair game.

[kehatch]

For sure, they had no choice.

 

But for them to get to this situation illustrates a lack of depth and/or some poor decisions.

 

Ie., not signing Gillies last year,

 

over-playing Ortio without a serious additional prospect.

 

Not drafting that well with goaltenders, to be honest, since ortio/gillies

 

Not acquiring any other additional prospects.

 

 

So, yes, they cannot be faulted for their current actions.  

 

Questioning how we got here, imho, is fair game.

 

They did something. They signed Hiller.  Expecting them to be ready to have Ramo and Ortio both injured is unreasonable.  And even with that they still have Hiller in the NHL. 

 

Expecting them to sign college prospects prematurely for the purpose of depth or bringing on more tenders just in case is unreasonable IMO.  

[jjgallow]

Expecting them to sign college prospects prematurely for the purpose of depth or bringing on more tenders just in case is unreasonable IMO.  

 

When else would you sign a prospect other than prematurely?

[xstrike]

I agree, no Kipper, lol.  I disagree that we should sign someone to sit on the bench. Although free agent rules are not my forte, so there may be no other choice.

 

imho, this is not just a case of bad luck.  We still need one more solid goaltending prospect.

 

 

If we do sign someone, I hope we use this "emergency" as an excuse to increase our goaltending prospect depth.  It is the one position where this can be easily accomplished through free agency, due to the voodoo that is goaltending prospects.

 

An example:  Sign a free agent like 19-year-old Alexander Georgiyev.

 

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=262640

 

The best-kept secret in Finland, by far.  At 19 years of age, he is currently performing at at a level that Ortio didn't reach until he was 21.  

 

And there's more.  Georgiyev is playing on the worst team in Finland.   Yet still putting up numbers that demonstrate him to be the best prospect playing in that country right now.

 

Expect him to emerge as the best goaltender in Finland, as early as next year, and expect him to end up in North America shortly thereafter.

 

This is the kind of bench-warmer I would like to see the Flames pick up.

And this guy is not signed with any teams already because...?

 

I think Kris Russell would be an excellent back-up.

He has more saves (BS) than this year's LA Kings backup; 275 to 260

Heck, in Edmonton, he might even be able to be the starter.

But then our D depth would take another hit. Wideman-Brodie for top then well mostly crap for 3-7. Sides, only booms would block a lot of shots then.

 

For sure, they had no choice.

 

But for them to get to this situation illustrates a lack of depth and/or some poor decisions.

 

Ie., not signing Gillies last year,

 

Questioning how we got here, imho, is fair game.

Gillies wanted another year in college, you cannot blame Flames management for that. College prospects are a bit different from CHL or foreign ones.

[jjgallow]

Gillies wanted another year in college, you cannot blame Flames management for that. College prospects are a bit different from CHL or foreign ones.

 

He wanted to sign.  The Flames weren't ready to take the risk of signing him, is what happened.

 

Now, they are risking Thiessen in a Flames jersey going into the final three games of the playoff race.

 

 

Not so sure taking a chance on him would have been nearly as risky as what they're doing now, in hindsight.  (and in foresight, as many of us expressed this at that time as well, and yes, we cited injury as one legitimate reason for it)

[kehatch]

When else would you sign a prospect other than prematurely?

When he is ready. They didn't think Gilles is ready. Disagree with that if you want. But the motive to signing a prospect isn't to have a fourth goalie option in case everyone else gets hurt.

[xstrike]

When he is ready. They didn't think Gilles is ready. Disagree with that if you want. But the motive to signing a prospect isn't to have a fourth goalie option in case everyone else gets hurt.

I agree with kehatch on this one JJ.

[jjgallow]

When he is ready. They didn't think Gilles is ready. Disagree with that if you want. But the motive to signing a prospect isn't to have a fourth goalie option in case everyone else gets hurt.

 

Understandable.  But, what do you mean by "everyone else" is hurt?

 

I count two hurt goalies, in the Flame's entire system, who are signed right now.

 

Seems strange that an organization, under it's current contract status, can be devastated by but two injuries.

 

 

Also seems strange that for the whole last half of the season in the AHL, the Flames were developing exactly zero goaltending prospects.  Which raises the question of what the purpose is for their farm team.

 

I agree with you that it is the Flame's perogative to determine that Gillies isn't ready.   

 

I fail to believe that there is no available prospect on this earth for the last three months, that the Flames couldn't have developed.

[robrob1974]

That one does make sense JJ.

The AHL team has been struggling since Ortio went down. If they viewed the playoffs as an important part of development they would've signed a more competent goalie to help get them there.

[JTech780]

Understandable. But, what do you mean by "everyone else" is hurt?

I count two hurt goalies, in the Flame's entire system, who are signed right now.

Seems strange that an organization, under it's current contract status, can be devastated by but two injuries.

Also seems strange that for the whole last half of the season in the AHL, the Flames were developing exactly zero goaltending prospects. Which raises the question of what the purpose is for their farm team.

I agree with you that it is the Flame's perogative to deterine that Gillies isn't ready.

I fail to believe that there is no available prospect on this earth for the last three months, that the Flames couldn't have developed.

Brad Thiessen is a proven AHL starting goalie, he is having a down year this year, but signing him was solid depth move this year.

If they had signed Gillies he would have had to play in the ECHL to get playing time.

There are only so many spots to give goalies in the minors. If you want to develop Ortio as a starter then you have to play him as a starter in the AHL.

Adirondack has signed Doug Carr and Clay Witt as college free agents to try and develop goaltending prospects.

[robrob1974]

Also, if you want to develop Gillies as a starter, you have to play Gillies full time starter time.

[jjgallow]

Adirondack has signed Doug Carr and Clay Witt as college free agents to try and develop goaltending prospects.

 

 

 

Define "try"....

[cross16]

JJ you at overreacting and taking what shojld be a small issue and blowing it up into some organizational travesty. Gilles should have gone back to college the flames made the right call there and I think he has proven them right. He needed to prove more and he has. Signing him last season would have been a mistake IMO. There is no rush IMO to get him going pro but I think he likely will this year. Look at the current depth chart for goalies in calgary.

Ramo - hurt

Hiller

Ortio - hurt

Theissen

Gilles - unavailable but that's is unforeseen

Macdonald - hurt.

So out of their top 6 options 4 of them are unavailable due to unforeseen circumstances. How is that a slight against the organization? It's just bad luck simple as that. Any team who lost 4 of their top 6 options is net would scramble just like the flames. You just can't have that many goalies under contract.

[tincup1]

The injury situation is back luck and that's all there is to it.  They have 3 capable goalies in Ramo, Hiller and Ortio.  Most teams would envy that.  Gillies is an exciting prospect and he's really the big question mark at this point.  If the Flames are in the playoffs, I suspect he'll be on his way to Calgary, either as a backup or one of the black aces.  I'd love to see him as Hiller's backup, but that's just me. 

[JTech780]

The injury situation is back luck and that's all there is to it. They have 3 capable goalies in Ramo, Hiller and Ortio. Most teams would envy that. Gillies is an exciting prospect and he's really the big question mark at this point. If the Flames are in the playoffs, I suspect he'll be on his way to Calgary, either as a backup or one of the black aces. I'd love to see him as Hiller's backup, but that's just me.

Gillies isn't eligible to play in the playoffs if he signs, as he wasn't under contract before the trade deadline. At best he can help Adirondack this year.

[travel_dude]

Gillies isn't eligible to play in the playoffs if he signs, as he wasn't under contract before the trade deadline. At best he can help Adirondack this year.

See link about that very subject...

http://flamesnation.ca/2015/4/6/a-brief-look-at-calgary-s-reserve-list

Specifically....

The reserve list is important because, as I learned regarding Douglas Murray, players not on an NHL team's reserve list as of the trade deadline cannot play for that team in the post-season. This is also why any UFA college goalie, such as Boston University's Matt O'Connor, couldn't play for the Flames in the playoffs, but both Mason McDonald and Jon Gillies - if signed - could.

 

So, if Gillies is signed out of college this year, he can play in the playoffs.

[cross16]

One thing to keep in mind with Gilles though is his contract can't slide so the 9 game rule doesn't apply. If you sign him to carry him for the playoffs I'm fairly certain it will burn a year on his entry level deal.

Not a huge deal IMO but something to remember.

[JTech780]

See link about that very subject...

http://flamesnation.ca/2015/4/6/a-brief-look-at-calgary-s-reserve-list

Specifically....

The reserve list is important because, as I learned regarding Douglas Murray, players not on an NHL team's reserve list as of the trade deadline cannot play for that team in the post-season. This is also why any UFA college goalie, such as Boston University's Matt O'Connor, couldn't play for the Flames in the playoffs, but both Mason McDonald and Jon Gillies - if signed - could.

So, if Gillies is signed out of college this year, he can play in the playoffs.

I stand corrected. Thanks for the link to the article.

Adirondack has signed University of Calgary goalie Jacob DeSerres to an ATO. He was a former 3rd round pick of Philadelphia.

[jjgallow]

JJ you at overreacting and taking what shojld be a small issue and blowing it up into some ....travesty. 

 

something we have in common i guess

[JTech780]

I agree, no Kipper, lol. I disagree that we should sign someone to sit on the bench. Although free agent rules are not my forte, so there may be no other choice.

imho, this is not just a case of bad luck. We still need one more solid goaltending prospect.

If we do sign someone, I hope we use this "emergency" as an excuse to increase our goaltending prospect depth. It is the one position where this can be easily accomplished through free agency, due to the voodoo that is goaltending prospects.

An example: Sign a free agent like 19-year-old Alexander Georgiyev.

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=262640

The best-kept secret in Finland, by far. At 19 years of age, he is currently performing at at a level that Ortio didn't reach until he was 21.

And there's more. Georgiyev is playing on the worst team in Finland. Yet still putting up numbers that demonstrate him to be the best prospect playing in that country right now.

Expect him to emerge as the best goaltender in Finland, as early as next year, and expect him to end up in North America shortly thereafter.

This is the kind of bench-warmer I would like to see the Flames pick up.

This player is still draft eligible, even he wasn't I believe the Finnish league is still ongoing and he would be under contract with them. Very rarely if at all are players from Swedish and Finnish leagues brought over mid season.

[jjgallow]

This player is still draft eligible, even he wasn't I believe the Finnish league is still ongoing and he would be under contract with them. Very rarely if at all are players from Swedish and Finnish leagues brought over mid season.

 

Thanks JTech, 

 

Here's where I get confused, if you could help:

 

My understanding is that all Europeans are draft elligible, at all ages.   (all Non-North Americans)

 

So, how do we swing things like get Roman Cervenka?

 

And, not that Cervenka is the world's greatest example, but why can't that apply elsewhere?