DL44 Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Who do ya got as your 3 leaders in the Hart race this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_worthy Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Malkin Stamkos and Giroux (yawn). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DL44 Posted March 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Malkin Stamkos and Giroux (yawn). Lundqvist AND Quick before Giroux. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted March 28, 2012 Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 Giroux, Lundqvist & Quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_worthy Posted March 28, 2012 Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 Lundqvist AND Quick before Giroux. Lundqvist and Quick have both been awesome. But there are awards for goalies, as much as I have never really thought that was right, it is what it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted March 28, 2012 Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 You have to make the playoffs to win the Hart so Stamkos is out of question. Lundqvist, Malkin, Giroux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_worthy Posted March 28, 2012 Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 You have to make the playoffs to win the Hart so Stamkos is out of question. Lundqvist, Malkin, Giroux I think if he hits 60, he is a definite contender. Only one player has scored 60 this century (Ovechkin in 07-08 scored 65 and won the Hart) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Don Posted March 28, 2012 Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 I really hate having goalies as Hart nominations because in reality, they should win it every year. Unless a guy has a multiple record-breaking season he should be in the Hart conversation for fairness' sake to the skaters involved. The 3 skaters most valuable to their teams while putting up impressive offensive numbers are: Evgeni Malkin: Obvious choice. He carried the team without the best player in the world for almost the entire season. He has brought the max production out of Neal and Kunitz and is the main reason why the are battling for #1 in the division, conference and league. Steven Stamkos: He is the best goal scorer by far this season and the fact that the Lightning will miss the playoffs has nothing to do with him. 1st in goals, 2nd in points, 2nd in PP goals, 1st in Game-winning goals, 1st in Overtime goals. Erik Karlsson: He will be the first 20-year old defenceman to hit 80 points since Paul Coffey. Leads defencemen in points by 27! He has more even-strength points than all other defencemen but 1 have total points. 16 EVS Goals. 5 Game-winners. He's 7th in league scoring overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted March 28, 2012 Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 I think if he hits 60, he is a definite contender. Only one player has scored 60 this century (Ovechkin in 07-08 scored 65 and won the Hart) Steven Stamkos: He is the best goal scorer by far this season and the fact that the Lightning will miss the playoffs has nothing to do with him. 1st in goals, 2nd in points, 2nd in PP goals, 1st in Game-winning goals, 1st in Overtime goals. It's kind of like an unwritten rule. Is Stamkos really important to the Lightning's success this year? Wait, what success? Oh... Pshh... On the other hand, "Wow, why are the Rangers challenging for the President's Trophy when they weren't suppose to? Oh, Lundqvist. Why are the Pens winning without Crosby? Oh, Malkin. Why are the Flyers winning without Richards and Carter? Oh, Giroux." The list goes on. Those are the conversations of Hart Trophy winners. Without Malkin, do the Penguins miss the playoffs? Yes. Without Giroux, do the Flyers miss the playoffs? I would lean towards, Yes. Without Lundqvist, do the Rangers miss the playoffs? Certainly wouldn't challenge for President's Trophy. Without Stamkos, do the Lightning miss the playoffs? Yes. But wait, he was there and they still missed the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crzydrvr Posted March 28, 2012 Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 Picking Malkin to win it, and it's pretty clear. Only player who will finish with over 100 points barring miracle runs by both Giroux and Stamkos, keeping the Pens in the President's Trophy race despite missing key players like Staal, Crosby and Letang for long stretches of time.... Runners-up should be Lundqvist and either Giroux or Quick (if LA makes the playoffs it's gotta be Quick). I don't think they'll win, but they should deserve the nod over almost everyone else out there. Goalies may have their own award, but with the Hart's wording I think both Lundqvist and Quick are in the running. And they should be. Lundqvist has backed his team to top spot in the East, while Quick has basically had to win games on his own in LA (and they STILL hang around the playoff race). I'm not sure any other goalie in the NHL has had to do more with less; the only thing the Kings haven't asked him to do is score goals, and the way they're rolling they might have to any day now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_worthy Posted March 28, 2012 Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 It's kind of like an unwritten rule. Is Stamkos really important to the Lightning's success this year? Wait, what success? Oh... Pshh... On the other hand, "Wow, why are the Rangers challenging for the President's Trophy when they weren't suppose to? Oh, Lundqvist. Why are the Pens winning without Crosby? Oh, Malkin. Why are the Flyers winning without Richards and Carter? Oh, Giroux." The list goes on. Those are the conversations of Hart Trophy winners. Without Malkin, do the Penguins miss the playoffs? Yes. Without Giroux, do the Flyers miss the playoffs? I would lean towards, Yes. Without Lundqvist, do the Rangers miss the playoffs? Certainly wouldn't challenge for President's Trophy. Without Stamkos, do the Lightning miss the playoffs? Yes. But wait, he was there and they still missed the playoffs. So if you're the best player in the league but your team sucks, you can't win the Hart? (just asking, not saying that Stamkos is) By the way... Lundqvist: .675 winning percentage Biron: .684 so maybe the Rangers are a tad more than Lundqvist it's a team game and making the playoffs is not up to any one player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DL44 Posted March 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 So if you're the best player in the league but your team sucks, you can't win the Hart? (just asking, not saying that Stamkos is) Not exactly what he said... but generally yeah, the voters historically will tend to lean towards the contenders... over individuals on the have-nots.. How else you explain the Canucks regular season trophy haul last yr... But there is no way they will be able ignore Stamkos ripping and willing his team thru their defensive and goaltending shortcomings to even be in the race till recently.. he should be a finalist. He would probably of won it if TB made the playoffs. But the fact they didn't will play its part in the voting. right or wrong, its historically how it's gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 But there are awards for goalies, as much as I have never really thought that was right, it is what it is There are more awards for skaters. Richard, Lindsay, Ross, etc. Goalies have the Vezina. Without Lindqvist the Rangers wouldn't be 1st in the east. Without Quick the Kings probably wouldn't even be on the bubble. The Hart is for the most valuable player in the league. I think both qualify as their team's MVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_worthy Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 The Hart is for the most valuable player in the league. I think both qualify as their team's MVP. I used to argue the same thing. The problem is that it is impossible to compare the contribution of goaltenders against that of skaters. IMO, the best goalies are all the MVPs of the league. They play more than twice as much as any skaters and they directly impact far more games. But apples and oranges. So I have gone to the dark side and now agree that goalies should be left out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 So if you're the best player in the league but your team sucks, you can't win the Hart? Hart trophy doesn't go to the best player in the league. It goes to the player most valuable to his team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_worthy Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 Hart trophy doesn't go to the best player in the league. It goes to the player most valuable to his team. tomato tomahto I'll re-phrase: so if the best player in the league is on a crappy team, he isn't valuable to his team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 tomato tomahto I'll re-phrase: so if the best player in the league is on a crappy team, he isn't valuable to his team? We're talking about Hart Trophy here right? SHOULD the best player in the league win the Hart Trophy? YES DOES the best player in the league win the Hart Trophy? NO WHY? Because the Hart Trophy is awarded to the player most valuable to his team. Therefore, "TEAM" consideration comes into play. How valuable is a player to a team's success that missed the playoffs? It's hard to argue there was any success to begin with. I know what you're saying, but that's not how it works. Stamkos will not be in conversation for a Hart Trophy despite an individual effort of gigantic proportions. If the Penguins missed the playoffs, then neither would Malkin. SHOULD it be like that? NO, but it's like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Don Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 There are more awards for skaters. Richard, Lindsay, Ross, etc. Goalies have the Vezina. Without Lindqvist the Rangers wouldn't be 1st in the east. Without Quick the Kings probably wouldn't even be on the bubble. The Hart is for the most valuable player in the league. I think both qualify as their team's MVP. The Richard and Art Ross are not voted on. It's in the same category as the Jennings. There is only 1 trophy voted on by the media for the "best" player that a forward can win. Goalies have the Vezina and defencemen have the Norris. Without Smith where would the Coyotes be? Without Lehtonen where would the Stars be? Preds without Rinne, Flames without Kipper, Ottawa without Anderson, Buffalo without Miller, Florida without Theodore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 The Hart Trophy goes to the most valuable player to their respective team, it doesn't say anything about most valuable forward or most valuable non-goalie. To not vote for a goalie just because goalies have the Vezina (which is awarded to the best goalie, not the most valuable) seems kind of lame. My votes go to Malkin, Lundqvist and Pietrangelo. They are the best players at their positions this year and huge reasons why their team are at the top of the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
403Loyalty Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 had to go with malkin and lundqvist of course but also stamkos even tho historical like everyone has said hart nominees usually are not selected if you are not making the playoffs. BUT Stamkos goal totals are leaps above the rest and he may even hit 60. big milestones = a chance at the award. And one could easily say that if the Lightning had a goaltender they should be in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_worthy Posted April 28, 2012 Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 We're talking about Hart Trophy here right? SHOULD the best player in the league win the Hart Trophy? YES DOES the best player in the league win the Hart Trophy? NO WHY? Because the Hart Trophy is awarded to the player most valuable to his team. Therefore, "TEAM" consideration comes into play. How valuable is a player to a team's success that missed the playoffs? It's hard to argue there was any success to begin with. I know what you're saying, but that's not how it works. Stamkos will not be in conversation for a Hart Trophy despite an individual effort of gigantic proportions. If the Penguins missed the playoffs, then neither would Malkin. SHOULD it be like that? NO, but it's like that. Stamkos says hi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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