Oilers

[ConnorFutureGM]

Like I said I'm not thrilled with Feaster and King but the reason I rated them higher is that they have a better track record of actively trying to improve the roster than Lowe and his we will be better as everyone is a year older philosophy. TBH neither is ideal but I see the Flames as the better of the two.

I'm not saying the players are causing the losing but anyone in the work world knows that if you stay in a bad situation or work environment you tend to get numb to it. It's hard to snap yourself out of it and change things around. The players are numb to losing and okay with it because they have been losing so long. It's actually been proven that if you visualize your dreams and post pictures of your dream house and stuff you are less likely to achieve it as you get satisfaction from the visualization and it demotivated you. I think kind of the same thing is going on with the Oil right now.

Honestly I forgot Gagner. But Gags is an RFA next year so will the Oil be willing to pay what he wants? The other thing is I honestly don't see any way that Hemsky and Gagner net you what you need. If Gagner gets signed and puts up another good season next year and Hemsky stays healthy maybe but even still an established 1 or 1a Dman will cost you. The other, other thing is I just don't buy that these kids can win together. They don't know how to.

Krueger is fine but this is about the respect factor.

Like I said the Oil look pretty good on paper. My suggestions are made to shake up what's between there ears. They need a Wake up call and it has to be by trading a couple of the young core for SIGNIFICANT return, signing an established coach, and bringing in a solid FA from a winning culture.

 

- I'm not saying that MacTavish will be better. I am saying that MacTavish is more of an unknown. Will he be able to do his own thing? Does he have a better understanding of the Oilers' needs than Tambellini? Don't know. What is known though is Feaster's body of work which isn't great.

 

- Oilers do need to get some winners in the lineup.

 

- Yes the Oilers need a #1 defenceman. The same thing could be said about a lot of teams. There aren't that many bonafide #1 defencemen out there and probably none that are available via trade. Oilers will have to make due with what is available. Not sure what the price is for the better defencemen available but Gagner is a decent trade piece.

 

LMAO and there it is. Just like your management, you cant see the forest for the trees. Yeah you need more fowards and a average goalie there is the template for succuss. Have you not been doing this for the past five years. Our roster has a better GF than yours, so 100% your guys up front do not do us any good.

 

Hey no your right keep all five guys add more forwards and stay with rub a dub seems to have worked so far  .

 

- That is not logical at all. Let me get this straight, you think that the Flames couldn't have used any of the Oilers forwards? Hall is the best player on either team this season.

 

- The young players aren't the problem in Edmonton, its the lack of support from the vets.

[TrippinVdUb]

- I'm not saying that MacTavish will be better. I am saying that MacTavish is more of an unknown. Will he be able to do his own thing? Does he have a better understanding of the Oilers' needs than Tambellini? Don't know. What is known though is Feaster's body of work which isn't great.

 

- Oilers do need to get some winners in the lineup.

 

- Yes the Oilers need a #1 defenceman. The same thing could be said about a lot of teams. There aren't that many bonafide #1 defencemen out there and probably none that are available via trade. Oilers will have to make due with what is available. Not sure what the price is for the better defencemen available but Gagner is a decent trade piece.

 

 

- That is not logical at all. Let me get this straight, you think that the Flames couldn't have used any of the Oilers forwards? Hall is the best player on either team this season.

 

- The young players aren't the problem in Edmonton, its the lack of support from the vets.

How can you even compare management between teams, your claim is ridiculous. Both teams needed to go through the same kind of rebuild yet the oilers version is what the flame would look like in 3 years had we not traded Jbow and Iggy this season. Your roster is full of over aged under achieving players ie Horcoff, Smyth (who by the way was actually re-acquired through trade) that should have been moved and forgotten about as soon as the rebuild started to take shape. Now the only option you have is to buy out the remainder of there contracts in hopes of clearing cap space which even if you could lure a UFA over to come play you still wouldn't be able to because all that cash is going to have to be used to negotiate new contracts for the young guns....

Looking back, Lowe had absolutely no idea how to overlook a tear down/rebuild of an NHL hockey team, there's more to building a winner then simply tanking year after year to acquire high end talent all the while relying on the idea that talent alone wins hockey games, don't get me wrong I understand how he came to that conclusion, all he had to do to win those Stanley cups that he keeps bragging about was show up to work and let Wayne and company do there thing.....

On the other hand Flames Management has managed to move our aging players, bring in highly sought after free agents, free up cap space, draft good prospects while still trying to stay competitive, and last but not least he gets to kick start our rebuild with 3 draft picks in the first year.... If he plays his cards right we could be competing for a playoff spot the season after next. By then the oilers with have been in REBUILD mode for almost a full decade.

[ConnorFutureGM]

How can you even compare management between teams, your claim is ridiculous. Both teams needed to go through the same kind of rebuild yet the oilers version is what the flame would look like in 3 years had we not traded Jbow and Iggy this season. Your roster is full of over aged under achieving players ie Horcoff, Smyth (who by the way was actually re-acquired through trade) that should have been moved and forgotten about as soon as the rebuild started to take shape. Now the only option you have is to buy out the remainder of there contracts in hopes of clearing cap space which even if you could lure a UFA over to come play you still wouldn't be able to because all that cash is going to have to be used to negotiate new contracts for the young guns....

 

But what were the Flames doing the last 3 years? They weren't winning Stanley Cups or even making the playoffs. They were treading water. The Oilers do have a few overpaid vets on their team and Smyth can't be compliance bought out because he makes under 3 mil. And yes, the Oilers will have to consider the cap going forward with their young players.

 

Looking back, Lowe had absolutely no idea how to overlook a tear down/rebuild of an NHL hockey team, there's more to building a winner then simply tanking year after year to acquire high end talent all the while relying on the idea that talent alone wins hockey games, don't get me wrong I understand how he came to that conclusion, all he had to do to win those Stanley cups that he keeps bragging about was show up to work and let Wayne and company do there thing.....

 

According the Friedman from 960, Tambellini was the one making the final calls.

 

On the other hand Flames Management has managed to move our aging players, bring in highly sought after free agents, free up cap space, draft good prospects while still trying to stay competitive, and last but not least he gets to kick start our rebuild with 3 draft picks in the first year.... If he plays his cards right we could be competing for a playoff spot the season after next. By then the oilers with have been in REBUILD mode for almost a full decade.

 

Moved your aging players? For what return? Iginla got two no name prospects and likely a low 1st rounder. Same with Bouwmeester who was supposedly this amazing big minute defenceman who was getting back to his offensive ways. Flames couldn't even move Kiprusoff.

 

What highly sought after free agents? Hudler? Wideman? These guys signed big contracts and the Flames are worse this season with them in the lineup.

 

The Flames traded their best forwad and their best defenceman. Yes, that would likely clear up cap space but is that cap space going to lead to more bang for buck?

 

Bartschi was a decent draft choice. No one knows if Jankowski will turn out.

 

 

Whenever the Flames are going to be a playoff team again, I don't believe Feaster will be the GM of the Flames.

[tmac70]

- I'm not saying that MacTavish will be better. I am saying that MacTavish is more of an unknown. Will he be able to do his own thing? Does he have a better understanding of the Oilers' needs than Tambellini? Don't know. What is known though is Feaster's body of work which isn't great.

 

- Oilers do need to get some winners in the lineup.

 

- Yes the Oilers need a #1 defenceman. The same thing could be said about a lot of teams. There aren't that many bonafide #1 defencemen out there and probably none that are available via trade. Oilers will have to make due with what is available. Not sure what the price is for the better defencemen available but Gagner is a decent trade piece.

 

 

- That is not logical at all. Let me get this straight, you think that the Flames couldn't have used any of the Oilers forwards? Hall is the best player on either team this season.

 

- The young players aren't the problem in Edmonton, its the lack of support from the vets.

What good are your forwards to us when we had a better GF average your team this season, not saying there not good they would not have helped us as they didnt help you either. Keeping it out of the net was our issue not putting it in the net.

 

The frustrating part is your inability to accept reality with your club. Others have given you a simailr analysis of what would make your team better, even msot of the hockey anaylsist would saty the same thing. Staying loyal to your young guys has and still is your down fall. So logically moving a couple young guys makes you better.

 

So I mentioned earlier , hey your right everyone else who stated similar comments as mine are wrong. Doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result is ....... the OIlers . Good luck

[Flame111]

But what were the Flames doing the last 3 years? They weren't winning Stanley Cups or even making the playoffs. They were treading water. The Oilers do have a few overpaid vets on their team and Smyth can't be compliance bought out because he makes under 3 mil. And yes, the Oilers will have to consider the cap going forward with their young players.

 

 

According the Friedman from 960, Tambellini was the one making the final calls.

 

 

Moved your aging players? For what return? Iginla got two no name prospects and likely a low 1st rounder. Same with Bouwmeester who was supposedly this amazing big minute defenceman who was getting back to his offensive ways. Flames couldn't even move Kiprusoff.

 

What highly sought after free agents? Hudler? Wideman? These guys signed big contracts and the Flames are worse this season with them in the lineup.

 

The Flames traded their best forwad and their best defenceman. Yes, that would likely clear up cap space but is that cap space going to lead to more bang for buck?

 

Bartschi was a decent draft choice. No one knows if Jankowski will turn out.

 

 

Whenever the Flames are going to be a playoff team again, I don't believe Feaster will be the GM of the Flames.

 

What have the Flames been doing the last three years? They were icing a competitive team, entertaining Flames fans and playing hockey that mattered right up until the last week of the season. Every year they were in the mix. We were here busy calculating odds on making the playoffs, we were hoping this team lost or this team won and the Flames played out the string to the playoffs. Now they didn't make the playoffs each year but it was hockey that mattered, every year, all season long. 

The whole point of the game is to win. 

 

I find it a little flippant for you to say they weren't winning Stanley Cups. There are several teams in the NHL that have never won a single Stanley Cup. St.Louis Blues, Vancouver Canucks, Jets 1.0/Coyotes, etc. The goal is to win the Cup but you really have forgotten how difficult that is. 

 

I also think you have forgotten how in the modern NHL, how difficult it is to even make the playoffs. There is a lot of work to do in Edmonton this off-season. A lot of work in Calgary too but the attitude is there in Calgary anyway, the winning attitude of the organization. This may be an intangible that is lost now in Edmonton. Same thing that haunts the Panthers today. 

 

I am certain the Flames could have moved Kipper to Toronto, there was too much smoke there at the time for there not to be a bit of fire on that. The Flames though, in typical Flames fashion treated their player with a ton of respect and did not trade him for a conditional pick and respected his wishes to end his career here in Calgary. 

 

Yes, the Flames moved Iggy too late. You can find Iginla trade threads on this very board that are at least 3 years old with the same very reasoned arguments of moving Iggy 3 years ago. But again the Flames do what the Flames do, they respect their players. Iginla does have a special status in Calgary but still I think you will have a split here in fans who will want Iggy to win the Cup vs those who want to see the Pens exit early and bump that pick up a couple slots. 

 

Jbo was due to his contract, you yourself constantly stressed how overpaid he was, so naturally you have to know how it affected his trade value, especially in this season with Cap tightening next year. Ironically he would have been the perfect D man for the Oilers, a true top 2, heavy minutes eating D-man who always lines up against the best in the NHL and does a pretty good job on them. 

 

At some point in time Connor you have to get off the crack pipe of hope and with dreamy high ranked prospects, what matters is what happens on NHL ice in real time. You have to start looking at the real time results. The Oilers had a surprisingly bad season this year. Again, my expectation for them to at the worst, finish no lower than 20th overall was very reasonable. The possibility that they may finish below the Flames again, which I think is the 10th straight year or at least close to it has to be recognized for what it is. 

 

You always default to attacking the Flames and you have to stop with that. For the Flames you snap your fingers and draw instant conclusions that getting Hudler and Wideman has not made them better this year. Hudler is an excellent acquisition, he is exactly the kind of proven NHL Vet with a Cup ring that the Flames need going forward. Wideman is overpaid but again he is a proven top 4 D man. Ironically, these are exactly the kind of players the Oilers should be outbidding the Flames to get on their team but could the Oilers have even got them, even with a higher price offered?

 

That other intangible, can the Oilers fill out the rest of their roster with solid NHL Vets they need to make the playoffs, remains the question, just as for the Flames the opposite holds true, can they fill out their barren 23-27 age group and get the emergence of the young star they need in Sven, Johnny G of this years 1st round pick. 

 

Yes, no one knows if Jankowski will turn out but the same holds true for a ton of the Oilers picks and prospects aside from the 1st round picks. It is pretty easy to just pick first overall and I don't know what is going on with RNH, I picked him to be the best of the top 3 but his confidence is clearly shattered, can he snap out of it? Does he want out already?

 

There is a lot of intangibles at play in the Oilers re-build, things that are off the ice and between the ears of players and even in the organization itself. Lowe's little outburst about not caring about Oiler fans who don't pay for the tickets really was odd but it is reflective of something about the elitist approach of the Management in that Oil. As was his big claim about knowing something about winning Stanley Cups, which is really a joke because he knows as a player and knows nothing about winning in Hockey Ops. 

 

I can give you a long list of Stanley Cup winning GMs who have never won a Cup as a player. 

 

I am not calling the Flames results yet next season until I see the moves in the off-season but it should be unlikely they make them, they could though depending on the off-season moves. The Oilers though must make the playoffs next year, if they miss again… At that point they will set a new record for consecutive playoff misses with CDN NHL teams, they are currently tied with Calgary and Toronto with their 7 year dark ages but next year will be Year 8 in a row out of the playoffs. 

 

Connor you remain one of the last Oiler Fans who really seems unable to appreciate that the Oil are on a dangerous precipice this off-season. Most Oiler Fans seem to be very sober and concerned at this point and for good reason.

 

Feaster's "wandering the desert" comment may come true. Just as I warned so many years ago, total rebuilds are huge gambles that are all or nothings. They are not the rock solid path to the Stanley Cup you have always asserted, heck they are not even a solid path to the playoffs, never mind a Cup. Your historical quotes litter both the Oiler boards and now the Flames boards confidently predicting a Oiler Cup win in the next few years. I can go dig them up.

 

Pens, Blackhawks - you have been obsessed with the success of these teams yet neglected all the details in their rebuild that the Oilers currently lack. You have also flippantly dismissed the Islanders, Panthers, Thrashers and the lessons their total rebuild warned of. 

 

The similarity between the Islanders and Oilers is there. Two epic dynasty teams from the past, an Owner obsessed with a new arena and it remains to be seen if Katz will open his wallet or keep it shut like Wang did...

[DirtyDeeds]

Flame111:

You can try to show Connor that the world is round but he won't consider your points.

 

His world is something else:

 

He would prefer to just debate, because his world is flat.

[SheriforPM]

Epic post Flame 111

 

One thing and I am not being flippant about is... No one tanks as good as the Oilers.

[TrippinVdUb]

I was just about to come on here and see what kind of argument The Future GM had waiting for me but then I came arcoss this gem of a post. So All I really have to say is....

 

Ya what he said....

 

nice work Flame111

 

 

What have the Flames been doing the last three years? They were icing a competitive team, entertaining Flames fans and playing hockey that mattered right up until the last week of the season. Every year they were in the mix. We were here busy calculating odds on making the playoffs, we were hoping this team lost or this team won and the Flames played out the string to the playoffs. Now they didn't make the playoffs each year but it was hockey that mattered, every year, all season long. 

The whole point of the game is to win. 

 

I find it a little flippant for you to say they weren't winning Stanley Cups. There are several teams in the NHL that have never won a single Stanley Cup. St.Louis Blues, Vancouver Canucks, Jets 1.0/Coyotes, etc. The goal is to win the Cup but you really have forgotten how difficult that is. 

 

I also think you have forgotten how in the modern NHL, how difficult it is to even make the playoffs. There is a lot of work to do in Edmonton this off-season. A lot of work in Calgary too but the attitude is there in Calgary anyway, the winning attitude of the organization. This may be an intangible that is lost now in Edmonton. Same thing that haunts the Panthers today. 

 

I am certain the Flames could have moved Kipper to Toronto, there was too much smoke there at the time for there not to be a bit of fire on that. The Flames though, in typical Flames fashion treated their player with a ton of respect and did not trade him for a conditional pick and respected his wishes to end his career here in Calgary. 

 

Yes, the Flames moved Iggy too late. You can find Iginla trade threads on this very board that are at least 3 years old with the same very reasoned arguments of moving Iggy 3 years ago. But again the Flames do what the Flames do, they respect their players. Iginla does have a special status in Calgary but still I think you will have a split here in fans who will want Iggy to win the Cup vs those who want to see the Pens exit early and bump that pick up a couple slots. 

 

Jbo was due to his contract, you yourself constantly stressed how overpaid he was, so naturally you have to know how it affected his trade value, especially in this season with Cap tightening next year. Ironically he would have been the perfect D man for the Oilers, a true top 2, heavy minutes eating D-man who always lines up against the best in the NHL and does a pretty good job on them. 

 

At some point in time Connor you have to get off the crack pipe of hope and with dreamy high ranked prospects, what matters is what happens on NHL ice in real time. You have to start looking at the real time results. The Oilers had a surprisingly bad season this year. Again, my expectation for them to at the worst, finish no lower than 20th overall was very reasonable. The possibility that they may finish below the Flames again, which I think is the 10th straight year or at least close to it has to be recognized for what it is. 

 

You always default to attacking the Flames and you have to stop with that. For the Flames you snap your fingers and draw instant conclusions that getting Hudler and Wideman has not made them better this year. Hudler is an excellent acquisition, he is exactly the kind of proven NHL Vet with a Cup ring that the Flames need going forward. Wideman is overpaid but again he is a proven top 4 D man. Ironically, these are exactly the kind of players the Oilers should be outbidding the Flames to get on their team but could the Oilers have even got them, even with a higher price offered?

 

That other intangible, can the Oilers fill out the rest of their roster with solid NHL Vets they need to make the playoffs, remains the question, just as for the Flames the opposite holds true, can they fill out their barren 23-27 age group and get the emergence of the young star they need in Sven, Johnny G of this years 1st round pick. 

 

Yes, no one knows if Jankowski will turn out but the same holds true for a ton of the Oilers picks and prospects aside from the 1st round picks. It is pretty easy to just pick first overall and I don't know what is going on with RNH, I picked him to be the best of the top 3 but his confidence is clearly shattered, can he snap out of it? Does he want out already?

 

There is a lot of intangibles at play in the Oilers re-build, things that are off the ice and between the ears of players and even in the organization itself. Lowe's little outburst about not caring about Oiler fans who don't pay for the tickets really was odd but it is reflective of something about the elitist approach of the Management in that Oil. As was his big claim about knowing something about winning Stanley Cups, which is really a joke because he knows as a player and knows nothing about winning in Hockey Ops. 

 

I can give you a long list of Stanley Cup winning GMs who have never won a Cup as a player. 

 

I am not calling the Flames results yet next season until I see the moves in the off-season but it should be unlikely they make them, they could though depending on the off-season moves. The Oilers though must make the playoffs next year, if they miss again… At that point they will set a new record for consecutive playoff misses with CDN NHL teams, they are currently tied with Calgary and Toronto with their 7 year dark ages but next year will be Year 8 in a row out of the playoffs. 

 

Connor you remain one of the last Oiler Fans who really seems unable to appreciate that the Oil are on a dangerous precipice this off-season. Most Oiler Fans seem to be very sober and concerned at this point and for good reason.

 

Feaster's "wandering the desert" comment may come true. Just as I warned so many years ago, total rebuilds are huge gambles that are all or nothings. They are not the rock solid path to the Stanley Cup you have always asserted, heck they are not even a solid path to the playoffs, never mind a Cup. Your historical quotes litter both the Oiler boards and now the Flames boards confidently predicting a Oiler Cup win in the next few years. I can go dig them up.

 

Pens, Blackhawks - you have been obsessed with the success of these teams yet neglected all the details in their rebuild that the Oilers currently lack. You have also flippantly dismissed the Islanders, Panthers, Thrashers and the lessons their total rebuild warned of. 

 

The similarity between the Islanders and Oilers is there. Two epic dynasty teams from the past, an Owner obsessed with a new arena and it remains to be seen if Katz will open his wallet or keep it shut like Wang did....

[DL44]

In terms of 111's comment about connor ignoring other factors that led to Chi and Pit's rise... he referenced preseason the historical basement to playoff single season turnarounds as parallel comparables to the Oilers' potential this yr, choosing to ignore the differences in the number of significant offseason additions made with those teams that successfully made massive turnarounds.

 

 

i.e. his belief was that the Oilers were playoff bound this yr.  Would of been equivalent to a 74 pt to a ~95 pt turnaround based merely on the addition of 2 more rookies and development from within. But he had faith, and belief and hope.. Can't fault him for being an extreme homer optimist.

 

Just fault him for the voluntary ignorance.

[s4xon]

The Oilers are up 2-0 in Minni and I don't even understand how...2 goals in 3 shots....

 

Watching them play, I have no clue if they even follow a system.  Everyone is everywhere, no one is in position, the cycle is non-existent, and a lot of the choices they are making with the puck are leaving me scratch my head, my scalp is getting pretty raw at this point. (what would one expect from the crapshoot org from up north?)

 

If this team doesn't establish a solid head coach and solid system, the Oilers rebuild is going to be a very very long one.

[The_People1]

Thanks for the win tonight Oilers.

[Young_Guns_V2]

Flame111:

You can try to show Connor that the world is round but he won't consider your points.

 

His world is something else:

 

He would prefer to just debate, because his world is flat

 

 

LOL

[PokernHockey]

flame111,

 

That was probably one of the best posts I have read in a while.  +111 to you sir.

[ConnorFutureGM]

What have the Flames been doing the last three years? They were icing a competitive team, entertaining Flames fans and playing hockey that mattered right up until the last week of the season. Every year they were in the mix. We were here busy calculating odds on making the playoffs, we were hoping this team lost or this team won and the Flames played out the string to the playoffs. Now they didn't make the playoffs each year but it was hockey that mattered, every year, all season long. 

The whole point of the game is to win. 

 

I beg to differ. What you are labelling as a competitive team is a team that was missing the playoffs season after season. The difference was the Flames were never a threat to win the Stanley Cup, not even close. The team had a core of primed or past prime players and were still coming up short to make the show, never threatening to win or even be a dark horse.

 

You may try to compare the Flames making the playoffs in 8th as the Kings last year. The difference is the Kings have talented players and they were a far younger group.

 

 

I also think you have forgotten how in the modern NHL, how difficult it is to even make the playoffs. There is a lot of work to do in Edmonton this off-season. A lot of work in Calgary too but the attitude is there in Calgary anyway, the winning attitude of the organization. This may be an intangible that is lost now in Edmonton. Same thing that haunts the Panthers today. 

 

FYI, a team has to win the have a winning attitude. Just because the owner demands playoffs next season doesn't mean the Flames have a winning attitude.

 

 

I am certain the Flames could have moved Kipper to Toronto, there was too much smoke there at the time for there not to be a bit of fire on that. The Flames though, in typical Flames fashion treated their player with a ton of respect and did not trade him for a conditional pick and respected his wishes to end his career here in Calgary. 

 

Yes, the Flames moved Iggy too late. You can find Iginla trade threads on this very board that are at least 3 years old with the same very reasoned arguments of moving Iggy 3 years ago. But again the Flames do what the Flames do, they respect their players. Iginla does have a special status in Calgary but still I think you will have a split here in fans who will want Iggy to win the Cup vs those who want to see the Pens exit early and bump that pick up a couple slots. 

 

Jbo was due to his contract, you yourself constantly stressed how overpaid he was, so naturally you have to know how it affected his trade value, especially in this season with Cap tightening next year. Ironically he would have been the perfect D man for the Oilers, a true top 2, heavy minutes eating D-man who always lines up against the best in the NHL and does a pretty good job on them. 

 

- I am certain the Flames couldn't have moved Kiprusoff. Kiprusoff told his agent he didn't want to go to another team. Kiprrusoff/his agent make a statement saying that he wouldn't report if traded. Feaster tries talking to Kipprusoff, Feaster gives permission for Nonis to talk to him and KIprusoff says he doesn't want to get traded and would not report hence no trade.

 

- No. The owner of the Flames and Iginla were tight. The owner wanted Iginla to be a life long Flame according to 960. If Iginla didn't request to be traded he would have stayed and retired. To what end? It's fine treating players with respect but if it becomes to the detriment of a successful team then goal of the organization is lost.

 

- So where is the salary retention from the owner? How much more value could have Bouwmeester have gotten if he was a 3.34 mil cap hit making 3.3 mil? I would imagaine a heck of a lot more. This is an example of Flames' ownership not going above and beyond to build a better team.

 

 

At some point in time Connor you have to get off the crack pipe of hope and with dreamy high ranked prospects, what matters is what happens on NHL ice in real time. You have to start looking at the real time results. The Oilers had a surprisingly bad season this year. Again, my expectation for them to at the worst, finish no lower than 20th overall was very reasonable. The possibility that they may finish below the Flames again, which I think is the 10th straight year or at least close to it has to be recognized for what it is. 

 

You always default to attacking the Flames and you have to stop with that. For the Flames you snap your fingers and draw instant conclusions that getting Hudler and Wideman has not made them better this year. Hudler is an excellent acquisition, he is exactly the kind of proven NHL Vet with a Cup ring that the Flames need going forward. Wideman is overpaid but again he is a proven top 4 D man. Ironically, these are exactly the kind of players the Oilers should be outbidding the Flames to get on their team but could the Oilers have even got them, even with a higher price offered?

 

The Oilers highly drafted players are playing well. These are the players who are making a difference on the team. The Oilers finished above the Flames so that streak is over. As of now, the Oilers are above the Flames in the standing and have a much, much younger core than the Flames. The Oilers were a disappointment this year. They have one of if not the youngest core in the league and the Oilers need better players to support the young core.

 

Has Wideman and Hudler made the Flames a better team this year?

 

These are not the type of players the Oilers need nor have any desire for.

 

 

That other intangible, can the Oilers fill out the rest of their roster with solid NHL Vets they need to make the playoffs, remains the question, just as for the Flames the opposite holds true, can they fill out their barren 23-27 age group and get the emergence of the young star they need in Sven, Johnny G of this years 1st round pick. 

 

Yes, no one knows if Jankowski will turn out but the same holds true for a ton of the Oilers picks and prospects aside from the 1st round picks. It is pretty easy to just pick first overall and I don't know what is going on with RNH, I picked him to be the best of the top 3 but his confidence is clearly shattered, can he snap out of it? Does he want out already?

 

We will see if MacTavish will have a better ability than Tambellini in filling out a supporting cast. Filling out a supporting task is an easier job than replacing a core with new, younger players about to enter their prime which is what you're suggesting Feaster's task is.

 

Oilers have drafted Eberle at 22. Klefbom at 19 looks like a pick that can become a productive top 4 defenceman in a season or two.

 

That statement you made about RNH is aggrivating. First off, you likely hold no knowledge on the subject yet make statements like that. RNH has had a shoulder injury all season and played through it.

 

 

There is a lot of intangibles at play in the Oilers re-build, things that are off the ice and between the ears of players and even in the organization itself. Lowe's little outburst about not caring about Oiler fans who don't pay for the tickets really was odd but it is reflective of something about the elitist approach of the Management in that Oil. As was his big claim about knowing something about winning Stanley Cups, which is really a joke because he knows as a player and knows nothing about winning in Hockey Ops. 

 

Lowe is elitist and out of touch but just because Lowe is you simply cannot label everyone else the same way.

 

 

I am not calling the Flames results yet next season until I see the moves in the off-season but it should be unlikely they make them, they could though depending on the off-season moves. The Oilers though must make the playoffs next year, if they miss again… At that point they will set a new record for consecutive playoff misses with CDN NHL teams, they are currently tied with Calgary and Toronto with their 7 year dark ages but next year will be Year 8 in a row out of the playoffs. 

 

See, there's the difference. People will say the Oilers are going nowhere, their managment sucks and so forth. They will then go on to say that the Flames will probably be better than the Oilers next season. Why wait for moves? If someone is confident that their team's management is better than the Oilers than make the bet now.

 

Connor you remain one of the last Oiler Fans who really seems unable to appreciate that the Oil are on a dangerous precipice this off-season. Most Oiler Fans seem to be very sober and concerned at this point and for good reason.

 

Feaster's "wandering the desert" comment may come true. Just as I warned so many years ago, total rebuilds are huge gambles that are all or nothings. They are not the rock solid path to the Stanley Cup you have always asserted, heck they are not even a solid path to the playoffs, never mind a Cup. Your historical quotes litter both the Oiler boards and now the Flames boards confidently predicting a Oiler Cup win in the next few years. I can go dig them up.

 

First the Oilers were the Islanders of the west but now the Islanders look like a team. The season before people were saying how drafting high has gotten the Kings nowhere. Oilers still have to still surround the picks with the right players.

 

Feaster has shown himself to be a bad manager. He said his fool me once quote to get fooled again and again. He also was close to throwing a major part of the Flames' future away for nothing.

 

I still believe the Oilers will win the Cup in a few years. The Oilers have the talent which is by far the hardest thing to acquire. The Oilers need a GM who can bring in the right mix on the team to win.

 

Pens, Blackhawks - you have been obsessed with the success of these teams yet neglected all the details in their rebuild that the Oilers currently lack. You have also flippantly dismissed the Islanders, Panthers, Thrashers and the lessons their total rebuild warned of. 

 

The similarity between the Islanders and Oilers is there. Two epic dynasty teams from the past, an Owner obsessed with a new arena and it remains to be seen if Katz will open his wallet or keep it shut like Wang did...

 

What are you even talking about here? Katz puts a lot of money into the Oilers both on and off the ice. The arena has also been finalized.

 

I would expect better from you but you made a lot of statements in this post without having any knowledge on the topic.

[DirtyDeeds]

I beg to differ. What you are labelling as a competitive team is a team that was missing the playoffs season after season. The difference was the Flames were never a threat to win the Stanley Cup, not even close. The team had a core of primed or past prime players and were still coming up short to make the show, never threatening to win or even be a dark horse.

 

You may try to compare the Flames making the playoffs in 8th as the Kings last year. The difference is the Kings have talented players and they were a far younger group.

 

 

 

FYI, a team has to win the have a winning attitude. Just because the owner demands playoffs next season doesn't mean the Flames have a winning attitude.

 

 

 

- I am certain the Flames couldn't have moved Kiprusoff. Kiprusoff told his agent he didn't want to go to another team. Kiprrusoff/his agent make a statement saying that he wouldn't report if traded. Feaster tries talking to Kipprusoff, Feaster gives permission for Nonis to talk to him and KIprusoff says he doesn't want to get traded and would not report hence no trade.

 

- No. The owner of the Flames and Iginla were tight. The owner wanted Iginla to be a life long Flame according to 960. If Iginla didn't request to be traded he would have stayed and retired. To what end? It's fine treating players with respect but if it becomes to the detriment of a successful team then goal of the organization is lost.

 

- So where is the salary retention from the owner? How much more value could have Bouwmeester have gotten if he was a 3.34 mil cap hit making 3.3 mil? I would imagaine a heck of a lot more. This is an example of Flames' ownership not going above and beyond to build a better team.

 

 

 

The Oilers highly drafted players are playing well. These are the players who are making a difference on the team. The Oilers finished above the Flames so that streak is over. As of now, the Oilers are above the Flames in the standing and have a much, much younger core than the Flames. The Oilers were a disappointment this year. They have one of if not the youngest core in the league and the Oilers need better players to support the young core.

 

Has Wideman and Hudler made the Flames a better team this year?

 

These are not the type of players the Oilers need nor have any desire for.

 

 

 

We will see if MacTavish will have a better ability than Tambellini in filling out a supporting cast. Filling out a supporting task is an easier job than replacing a core with new, younger players about to enter their prime which is what you're suggesting Feaster's task is.

 

Oilers have drafted Eberle at 22. Klefbom at 19 looks like a pick that can become a productive top 4 defenceman in a season or two.

 

That statement you made about RNH is aggrivating. First off, you likely hold no knowledge on the subject yet make statements like that. RNH has had a shoulder injury all season and played through it.

 

 

 

Lowe is elitist and out of touch but just because Lowe is you simply cannot label everyone else the same way.

 

 

 

See, there's the difference. People will say the Oilers are going nowhere, their managment sucks and so forth. They will then go on to say that the Flames will probably be better than the Oilers next season. Why wait for moves? If someone is confident that their team's management is better than the Oilers than make the bet now.

 

 

First the Oilers were the Islanders of the west but now the Islanders look like a team. The season before people were saying how drafting high has gotten the Kings nowhere. Oilers still have to still surround the picks with the right players.

 

Feaster has shown himself to be a bad manager. He said his fool me once quote to get fooled again and again. He also was close to throwing a major part of the Flames' future away for nothing.

 

I still believe the Oilers will win the Cup in a few years. The Oilers have the talent which is by far the hardest thing to acquire. The Oilers need a GM who can bring in the right mix on the team to win.

 

 

What are you even talking about here? Katz puts a lot of money into the Oilers both on and off the ice. The arena has also been finalized.

 

I would expect better from you but you made a lot of statements in this post without having any knowledge on the topic.

No matter how you prefer to slice it Connor the "Standard" for competitive in the NHL is the playoffs. If you miss by only a few points or last couple games of the season then you qualify as a competitive team because you are in the mix and the league is balanced around that. Just about every team says that is the standard that they start the season out with, as their initial goal.

 

You however keep telling people that the Stanley Cup is the meaning of  "Competitive team". Sorry but only one team can win it and the LA example only proves that you do in fact only need to make 8th place to have a chance at winning it.

 

Flames Teams even missing the playoffs, are way ahead of the Oilers in having a winning attitude. What would you know about it? Your Oilers haven't displayed anything remotely close to a winning attitude for almost 8 years.

 

 

but if it becomes to the detriment of a successful team then goal of the organization is lost.

One of the stupidest things to ever come from you. Also a really good example why your team has so much trouble with attracting FA's. Its about how you treat your players and has nothing to do with the return or lack of return you get from players if and when you trade them.

 

There you go again. Making excuses for your players. Your old coach told your team it was okay to lose due to injuries. Your fan base makes excuses that tell the team it is okay they perform poorly due to injuries. You sit here in your response telling Flame111 he doesn't know what he is talking about because RNH had a shoulder injury. Suit yourself but this is one of the major reasons why your team is the only team from the bottom teams last year that failed to make a playoff push this year.

Lets see you set a pace for 76.875points in a 82 game season. You managed 74 last season. Hows your math Connor? I'll round it up to a 3 point increase in the standings, so how many years will it take you at the 3 points increase per year improvement to see the Oilers have enough points (95ish) to make the playoffs?

 

Add the missing winning attitude and you get major fail. You can't just turn on the attitude starting next year, it just doesn't work that way.

 

Feaster..yep you can rest assured Feaster will have big impact on how the Oilers are doing. Keep comparing "What might have been" most dreamers do. Funny how you criticize Feaster for his moves he attempted but never made, yet praise your New GM for moves he might make, when he hasn't done squat yet.

 

More garbage from you Connor but please keep telling yourself that you think you know what is going on. I really really hope your Oilers have the same views and attitude you do because then I know for sure they won't be close to turning things around no matter how many high draft picks you get.

[bronco73]

my Oiler hopes have been reduced to wondering about the draft.. again.  I picked them at the start of the season to finish 11'th, so I wasn't too far off, I did fully expect them to be more competitive this year though.  Glaring holes still with this team, a bottom two lines that seemed completely complacent, and glaring deficiencies at defense.  With Edmonton looking like they will be getting 6'th overall in this years draft the guy I've been cheerleading for will be right there ripe for the picking, Darnel Nurse.  Exactly what the team needs.

[The_People1]

my Oiler hopes have been reduced to wondering about the draft.. again.  I picked them at the start of the season to finish 11'th, so I wasn't too far off, I did fully expect them to be more competitive this year though.  Glaring holes still with this team, a bottom two lines that seemed completely complacent, and glaring deficiencies at defense.  With Edmonton looking like they will be getting 6'th overall in this years draft the guy I've been cheerleading for will be right there ripe for the picking, Darnel Nurse.  Exactly what the team needs.

 

Thanks for the win tonight Oilers.

 

How do you figure the Oilers will be drafting 6th overall when they won their meaningless game against the Canucks to finish 7th?  The Flames have the6th overall pick and they need to replace Bouwmeester's minutes on D.  The Flames will be drafting Nurse if given the chance.

[DirtyDeeds]

my Oiler hopes have been reduced to wondering about the draft.. again.  I picked them at the start of the season to finish 11'th, so I wasn't too far off, I did fully expect them to be more competitive this year though.  Glaring holes still with this team, a bottom two lines that seemed completely complacent, and glaring deficiencies at defense.  With Edmonton looking like they will be getting 6'th overall in this years draft the guy I've been cheerleading for will be right there ripe for the picking, Darnel Nurse.  Exactly what the team needs.

Most here are telling me Nurse won't be around when we pick. I agree with Peoples he should be our pick if he is still there, unless there is a Barkov still there too.

[bronco73]

How do you figure the Oilers will be drafting 6th overall when they won their meaningless game against the Canucks to finish 7th?  The Flames have the6th overall pick and they need to replace Bouwmeester's minutes on D.  The Flames will be drafting Nurse if given the chance.

I do stand corrected, 7'th overall is where Edmonton sits.  Thanks TP1.  Man I really wanted Nurse in Edmonton.  Most other Oiler fans are talking about drafting a center, but to me the most glaring hole in Edmonton is defense, then after that a center. 

 

If Jay picks Nurse at six I will definitely be congratulating you guys, because I think he's going to be a heck of a hockey player.  Secretly of course I've got my fingers crossed that Jay looks more at picking a forward with his first pick and nabs defense with one of his other two first rounders.

Most here are telling me Nurse won't be around when we pick. I agree with Peoples he should be our pick if he is still there, unless there is a Barkov still there too.

yea Barkov would be gold, can't see any way he's still around when the Alberta teams pick.

[Flyerfan52]

I do stand corrected, 7'th overall is where Edmonton sits.  Thanks TP1.  Man I really wanted Nurse in Edmonton.  Most other Oiler fans are talking about drafting a center, but to me the most glaring hole in Edmonton is defense, then after that a center. 

From the occasional peek in @ the Oilers board it seems the majority of the posters are closer to Connor in their thinking rather then people like you & UC. You 2 (along with a few others) see the need for balance & identify the holes in the Edmonton roster while so many are still dazzled by the potential of many goals from a very talented front 6. They seem to see defense as an unneccessary option.

[ConnorFutureGM]

No matter how you prefer to slice it Connor the "Standard" for competitive in the NHL is the playoffs. If you miss by only a few points or last couple games of the season then you qualify as a competitive team because you are in the mix and the league is balanced around that. Just about every team says that is the standard that they start the season out with, as their initial goal.

 

How is the standard of being competitive playoffs but then missing it but being close is being competitive? You either make it or you don't.

 

You however keep telling people that the Stanley Cup is the meaning of  "Competitive team". Sorry but only one team can win it and the LA example only proves that you do in fact only need to make 8th place to have a chance at winning it.

 

Yeah, teams that make it to 8th place can win the cup but if you think the Flames had a potential Stanley Cup winning team any of the last few years you're sadly mistaken. Both these points are moot. The Flames fell down the standings this season and even if you considered them a competitive team because they were close to the playoffs, they aren't close anymore.

 

Flames Teams even missing the playoffs, are way ahead of the Oilers in having a winning attitude. What would you know about it? Your Oilers haven't displayed anything remotely close to a winning attitude for almost 8 years.

 

And what would you know? Neither the Oilers nor the Flames have even been contenders in a long time.

 

 

 

One of the stupidest things to ever come from you. Also a really good example why your team has so much trouble with attracting FA's. Its about how you treat your players and has nothing to do with the return or lack of return you get from players if and when you trade them.

 

See right there, you are being insulting. Try to be civilized.

 

If Flames' ownership was putting the wants and desires ahead of maximizing return, that would be affecting his trade value. The Flames could have asked Iginla to waive his NTC the first season after the Flames missed the playoffs and they would have gotten a lot more for him, one would presume.

 

There you go again. Making excuses for your players. Your old coach told your team it was okay to lose due to injuries. Your fan base makes excuses that tell the team it is okay they perform poorly due to injuries. You sit here in your response telling Flame111 he doesn't know what he is talking about because RNH had a shoulder injury. Suit yourself but this is one of the major reasons why your team is the only team from the bottom teams last year that failed to make a playoff push this year.

Lets see you set a pace for 76.875points in a 82 game season. You managed 74 last season. Hows your math Connor? I'll round it up to a 3 point increase in the standings, so how many years will it take you at the 3 points increase per year improvement to see the Oilers have enough points (95ish) to make the playoffs?

 

What excuse am I making? I didn't at all say the Oilers lack of success this season was due to RNH's injury. Oilers need to drastically improve in a bunch of areas. I hope they make the playoffs next season but obviously it will take some shrewd moves from MacTavish to accomplish this.

 

Add the missing winning attitude and you get major fail. You can't just turn on the attitude starting next year, it just doesn't work that way.

 

Oilers won't be able to self gain a better attitude in one season but if the Oilers can bring in the right people to help develop the right attitude that would suffice.

 

 

Feaster..yep you can rest assured Feaster will have big impact on how the Oilers are doing. Keep comparing "What might have been" most dreamers do. Funny how you criticize Feaster for his moves he attempted but never made, yet praise your New GM for moves he might make, when he hasn't done squat yet.

 

When have I praised MacTavish? Show me a quote.

 

More garbage from you Connor but please keep telling yourself that you think you know what is going on. I really really hope your Oilers have the same views and attitude you do because then I know for sure they won't be close to turning things around no matter how many high draft picks you get.

 

More insulting posts from you.

 

I'm not losing my emotions on these posts, try to respond in a more appropriate manner.

[ConnorFutureGM]

From the occasional peek in @ the Oilers board it seems the majority of the posters are closer to Connor in their thinking rather then people like you & UC. You 2 (along with a few others) see the need for balance & identify the holes in the Edmonton roster while so many are still dazzled by the potential of many goals from a very talented front 6. They seem to see defense as an unneccessary option.

 

Not that you would take time to look into the Oilers prospect pool but the majority of the Oilers prospects are defencemen. The defensive depth in prospects (not playing in the NHL) is by far the Oilers strongest area. The Oilers are short on centres of all kinds and top 6 forwards. The Oilers are also short on goaltenders in the system.

 

Add to that, defencemen usually take longer to develop. If the Oilers are short a defenceman now, drafting one will be a solution 3 years too late. Defencemen are also harder to identify in potential. Often some of the best defencemen in drafts don't come out of the 1st round.

 

Anyway, drafting best player available is always best for teams long term.

[s4xon]

The Oilers are short on centres of all kinds and top 6 forwards.

 

  Your resume is looking mighty spiffy so far Connor.  You might be able to crack that NHL GM job up in Edmonton yet.

 

 

 

Often some of the best defencemen in drafts don't come out of the 1st round.

 

This only makes your case for the job even stronger.  I fully agree, for the Oilers, drafting a top quality D in the first round would just be plain idiocy.  They need to stick to their guns and draft in the later rounds for D, it's been working so far.

[ConnorFutureGM]

Yes and no. They never got around to clairifying it last time they talked about it, at least from what I read.

 

Edit:

they have a bet apparently just not sure what the sig bet part was.  Clearly he accepts the bet.

 

Replied To  ifiwaschucknorris : (Post 1312; Page 66)

 

So I pick your sig for the playoffs?

[DirtyDeeds]

yea Barkov would be gold, can't see any way he's still around when the Alberta teams pick.

Well he is injured.

 

Sometimes but not always high ranked players drop a bit because of injuries(ie Backlund). However the injury didn't affect his play through most of the season because it happened at the start of his playoffs. He should be pretty much all healed by the time draft day rolls around.