Oilers

[gsp393]

Or snag MacKinnon next draft & McDavid 2 years later so they end up with 2 Crosbys.

By then they might be able to trade a combo of their current youth for the real Crosby & go with Crosby 1, 2 & 3 down the center (with 2 of them on EL).

Surely Crosby & 2 younger versions will have UFAs begging to play there for minimum.

*I realize trading Hall, Eberle, etc. would probably accomplish both aims. I was just elaborating on it. *

____________________________________________

Just curious on people's thoughts on this ?.

With the hockey establishment comparing MacKinnon to Crosby (everything from birthplace to route followed) do you think they'd offer Malkin for that 1/1 pick & change?

I don't want to derail the thread & that idea might be worth it's own during this slow period but the above comment just made me think of that.

A 2nd (healthy) Crosby on EL or a highly paid weasel that could still demand that return. What do you figure Mario would prefer?

___________________________________________

No NHL so I figure I might as well spitball something like these for discussion.

Only if theres some sort of hidden love affair with crosby. Hate to say it to a flyer fan but malkin is a great solid young player. Only reason I could see them doing this is in some sort of effort to blow it up and rebuild which makes zero sense for a team of there quality...although philly somewhat did it. To answer your question I say no.

[C_worthy]

Dubnyk was not bad last season. It's the team defence that is lacking.

I just read 3 pages of Connor trying to justify his argument that the Oilers' defense is almost as good as the Flames' defense, then I read this post...

And I laughed, and I laughed...

PS: I know you will attempt to blame the team defense on the forwards, but I think you should think it through a little more first

Oh, one final point Connor: you made a comment about Giordano's defense being average and he is only rated highly by Flames fans because of his points. That is where you are dead wrong - Giordano is loved by Flames fans (and is very highly regarded around the league) because he does EVERYTHING well, especially in his own zone, where he is, IMO, the best defenseman on the Flames. Giordano is physical, he clears guys out of the front of the net, he hits (viciously), he moves the puck out of his zone well, he is great in the corners, he covers for his partner very well, he passes well, he jumps into the rush, and he adds offense. Gio is the most under-rated Flame. And if it weren't for Glencross, it wouldn't even be close.

[PokernHockey]

____________________________________________

Just curious on people's thoughts on this ?.

With the hockey establishment comparing MacKinnon to Crosby (everything from birthplace to route followed) do you think they'd offer Malkin for that 1/1 pick & change?

I don't want to derail the thread & that idea might be worth it's own during this slow period but the above comment just made me think of that.

A 2nd (healthy) Crosby on EL or a highly paid weasel that could still demand that return. What do you figure Mario would prefer?

___________________________________________

No NHL so I figure I might as well spitball something like these for discussion.

Only if theres some sort of hidden love affair with crosby. Hate to say it to a flyer fan but malkin is a great solid young player. Only reason I could see them doing this is in some sort of effort to blow it up and rebuild which makes zero sense for a team of there quality...although philly somewhat did it. To answer your question I say no.

All equal, I would jump on that trade as the team who is in last.

You have to expect that nathan is over-hyped, especially with how he has the same route as Crosby. you know how statistically improbable it is that he will live up to it?

I am not saying he won't, and I expect him to be a very good player, but realistically, he is probably over-hyped due to the friendly news story. So I don't expect him to be Crosby good. It would really concern me if I was trading a significant piece to draft him that even as everyone compares him to Crosby, the focus of the stories is always "everything from birthplace to route followed" and his stats and or abilities are the supporting evidence. I would be more comfortable if it was the other way around.

As such, I would take a (relatively) young, league MVP, superstar, easily top 5 Center in the league (arguably top 5 player including a healthy Crosby) over a unproven prospect who has never played a game in the NHL... well, maybe the Oilers would be against having someone who has more then just potential headlining their team (see how I tied it into the thread topic? )

If the pens were a semi contender, or hadn't just lost Stall, it could be worth it to take the gamble... maybe. But I just don't see them doing it with where they are. If they still have Stall it would have the added benefit of refreshing too extend the shelf life of their team. Not quite as important since they just did that and now don't have the same fail-safe backup in the mean time.

The stall trade was a current step back but could easily improve them in the future since they balanced themselves better. And it only happened because Jordan had no intention of resigning.

The trade you are proposing will *maybe* improve the pens in the future at the position they would be giving up... and remember, they are giving up one of the best players in the league for that chance of improving. The risk/reward is not there. (also why "all else equal" the team with the pick wants Malkin.)

(why I say all else equal)

On the other hand, you have to assume that the team with the pick is not in a quick fix position where a single player, no matter how good today will make them a top contender "this year". From that perspective, if you are likely a minimum of 2-3 years from being a legitimate playoff pretender let alone a contender, it probably serves you better to let the "next crosby" grow with your team.

Plus, Malkin is a RFA in 2 years. Why would he resign with the worst team in the league who he has no loyalty to?

So in reality, I doubt that either team wants to do that trade at 1st for Malkin without getting more back. Which means I cannot see either team offering a sweetener to make the other team interested.

[ConnorFutureGM]

I just read 3 pages of Connor trying to justify his argument that the Oilers' defense is almost as good as the Flames' defense, then I read this post...

And I laughed, and I laughed...

PS: I know you will attempt to blame the team defense on the forwards, but I think you should think it through a little more first

Oh, one final point Connor: you made a comment about Giordano's defense being average and he is only rated highly by Flames fans because of his points. That is where you are dead wrong - Giordano is loved by Flames fans (and is very highly regarded around the league) because he does EVERYTHING well, especially in his own zone, where he is, IMO, the best defenseman on the Flames. Giordano is physical, he clears guys out of the front of the net, he hits (viciously), he moves the puck out of his zone well, he is great in the corners, he covers for his partner very well, he passes well, he jumps into the rush, and he adds offense. Gio is the most under-rated Flame. And if it weren't for Glencross, it wouldn't even be close.

I never insinuated Giordano is liked because he's an offensive defenceman. I stated he's an all around defenceman at least once if not more.

Here's the main reasons why the Oilers sucked last season: Peckham/Barker, Khabibulin going from a spectacular first month to a horrid five months, leaning too much on the veterans, key players recovering from serious surgeries.

Or snag MacKinnon next draft & McDavid 2 years later so they end up with 2 Crosbys.

By then they might be able to trade a combo of their current youth for the real Crosby & go with Crosby 1, 2 & 3 down the center (with 2 of them on EL).

Surely Crosby & 2 younger versions will have UFAs begging to play there for minimum.

*I realize trading Hall, Eberle, etc. would probably accomplish both aims. I was just elaborating on it. *

____________________________________________

Just curious on people's thoughts on this ?.

With the hockey establishment comparing MacKinnon to Crosby (everything from birthplace to route followed) do you think they'd offer Malkin for that 1/1 pick & change?

I don't want to derail the thread & that idea might be worth it's own during this slow period but the above comment just made me think of that.

A 2nd (healthy) Crosby on EL or a highly paid weasel that could still demand that return. What do you figure Mario would prefer?

___________________________________________

No NHL so I figure I might as well spitball something like these for discussion.

No.

It might look smart on paper but the team drafting 1st overall would make more money off the next Crosby than trading for Malkin.

[Flyerfan52]

Just curious on people's thoughts on this ?.

No NHL so I figure I might as well spitball something like these for discussion.

Only if theres some sort of hidden love affair with crosby. Hate to say it to a flyer fan but malkin is a great solid young player. Only reason I could see them doing this is in some sort of effort to blow it up and rebuild which makes zero sense for a team of there quality...although philly somewhat did it. To answer your question I say no.

Adding a 2nd Crosby by trading only Malkin isn't a blowup. They did that for Mario & the original Crosby. Also cap considerations mean Malkin will make near Sidney money while Sid #2 is on EL.

All equal, I would jump on that trade as the team who is in last.

Plus, Malkin is a UFA in 2 years. Why would he resign with the worst team in the league who he has no loyalty to?

As I said, it's slow on the boards so I'm spit balling to get ideas flowing. (I changed your RFA to UFA. I hope you don't mind.)

[PokernHockey]

As I said, it's slow on the boards so I'm spit balling to get ideas flowing. (I changed your RFA to UFA. I hope you don't mind.)

I wasn't intending to insinuate it was a stupid idea by any means.

Thanks for changing that, I hope you caught that it was a typo.

[bronco73]

So if we're better now, and our future is bright, gotta wonder why Edmonton chose to lose so much. Doesn't seem to be panning out for them, especially with many of their top players and prospects hitting free agency soon.

Gotta jump in here. It might sound rude but so be it. What makes you people think this is at all possible, for any team? The idea is complete insanity. What player would actually elect to intentionally lose? The only one that would do this is one that wants out of the game.

Imagine this, Jay Feaster walks into the dressing room and says "OK guys, we just are not good enough to make playoffs any more. What I'd like for you to do is intentionally lose so we can get some top end draft picks for the next three or four years. Thanks."

Now you tell me what the Flames players would be thinking:

* Wow, my own G.M. doesn't have any faith in me?

* If we intentionally play bad, then what team would want me since the Flames don't think I'm good enough?

* If I lose on purpose and we do get top draft picks, wouldn't those draft picks replace me on the lineup?

* If I intentionally play bad, wouldn't that restrict my ability to get a better contract here or anywhere else?

* If we actually do this, am I not risking my entire career?

These people are professional players playing in the top league on the planet for millions of dollars a year. There is no way, NO WAY they would intentionally play badly so some snot nosed little 18 year old can come to the team and destroy the vets career and pride by showing them up. It just would not and can not happen. They have too much at stake, too much pride, and too much to lose. There isn't a hockey player in this league that would do it, period. It didn't happen in Edmonton, and it will not happen anywhere else.

[PokernHockey]

Gotta jump in here. It might sound rude but so be it. What makes you people think this is at all possible, for any team? The idea is complete insanity. What player would actually elect to intentionally lose? The only one that would do this is one that wants out of the game.

Imagine this, Jay Feaster walks into the dressing room and says "OK guys, we just are not good enough to make playoffs any more. What I'd like for you to do is intentionally lose so we can get some top end draft picks for the next three or four years. Thanks."

Now you tell me what the Flames players would be thinking:

* Wow, my own G.M. doesn't have any faith in me?

* If we intentionally play bad, then what team would want me since the Flames don't think I'm good enough?

* If I lose on purpose and we do get top draft picks, wouldn't those draft picks replace me on the lineup?

* If I intentionally play bad, wouldn't that restrict my ability to get a better contract here or anywhere else?

* If we actually do this, am I not risking my entire career?

These people are professional players playing in the top league on the planet for millions of dollars a year. There is no way, NO WAY they would intentionally play badly so some snot nosed little 18 year old can come to the team and destroy the vets career and pride by showing them up. It just would not and can not happen. They have too much at stake, too much pride, and too much to lose. There isn't a hockey player in this league that would do it, period. It didn't happen in Edmonton, and it will not happen anywhere else.

The players, no, however there are things that coaches/management can do to "influence" the process. The extreme being what Ottawa did to land Alex Daigle where they either traded or demoted to the AHL all of the NHL caliber players they had.

I do not believe for a second that 3 years ago the Oilers intended to lose. They had the miss fortune where nobody wanted to go to them, coupled with mismanagement and unfortunate injuries. Remember, they paid big money for a goalie to get them back into the playoffs. He just ended up injured for a significant portion of the year.

However, I also don't believe they have tried to improve their team in the near term, since they got there, they embraced it. And over time players will buy into the "play to lose" mentality like everyone else. Nobody wants to lose, but if you say, gee, now that we got hall we will be set, gee now that we have RNH we are gunna be a dynasty. Man, with Yakapov we will be unbeatable... the mentality that it is OK to lose becomes reality because players use it as a coping mechanism. And you lose the belief that you CAN win, tensing up etc. etc. etc. Why do you think it was such big news last year that the Oilers got a ping pong table? They were trying to make it fun again to turn it around.

Now that they have those shiny 1st overall players, the question will be if they can transition it to a winning culture like the Hawks or, will they fail to put the pieces in place which they cannot/do not draft in the lottery, leading to a long lasting losing culture and have players leave in search of greener pastures like the Panthers for so many years.

I wouldn't even include the Pens as a success story: They turned it around by drafting a generational player, which all of a sudden made them the most desirable place to play in the NHL. They transformed because they got fresh (top talent) blood which wanted to win like Gonchar, Recchi, etc.

EDIT: In addition that is one of the biggest knocks against the flames, noted by management and even some of the players... the "country club" atmosphere where they are OK with losing. Personally, I think the "all we need is 8th to make magic happen in the playoffs" is part of the problem.

[Flyerfan52]

I wasn't intending to insinuate it was a stupid idea by any means.

Thanks for changing that, I hope you caught that it was a typo.

I know you saw it as what it was (floating an idea to get some chatter on whats been a pretty boring board). I threw it against the wall & am not really sure what my preference would be.

The correction was simply me fixing a typo. When thinking FA it's easy to do (much like putting NTC instead of NMC).

[Flyerfan52]

The players, no, however there are things that coaches/management can do to "influence" the process. The extreme being what Ottawa did to land Alex Daigle where they either traded or demoted to the AHL all of the NHL caliber players they had.

Very true. When we say Edmonton we are often referring to the franchise rather than the individual players. Management can trade/demote players to decrease the chances of finishing nearer the middle then in a lottery position.

An atmosphere that tells the players it's OK to lose is poisonous though & can affect their career if it continues.

_____________________________________________

BTW, the Pens purposely went the trade/demote route twice. Lou Angotti was very clear on that about the Mario sweepstakes.

When Crosby was anointed "the next one" (& bankruptcy was staring them in the face again) the Pens traded players like Jagr to get an early start with Malkin to build a future out of losing once more. Mario wouldn't have had qualms as he went from holdout draft pick (refused to don the Pens jersey @ the draft) to owner knowing that he'd saved the team using that the 1st time around so he might as well use that to salvage what was given to him in lieu of salary owed.

The reason it worked there is both Mario & Crosby were seen as generational talents (even by players) so they were able to fill out the roster with players that expect to win. The east coast location even helps as many established players often tire of the longer road trips in the west.

Every draft the top few prospects are hyped for a year or 2 in advance but not to the degree those 2 (& Lindros) were.

[Kulstad]

Gotta jump in here and change the direction of this thread.

I must absolutely applaud the City of Edmonton (that is, the city council) for standing up for themselves against Katz. Ever since I heard the story yesterday that Council decided to "explore other (partnerless!) options, I haven't been able to stop giggling to myself over this.

Katz and the city of Edmonton had a deal in place last October, and ever since that deal Katz has been pushing his luck...looking for concessions here.....perhaps a little extra cash there.....to me, he ended up very much sounding/feeling like the Innkeeper from Les Miserables.

He pushed his luck, got busted for it, and now Edmonton won't talk to him again unless he's willing to go back to the original agreement.

[Flyerfan52]

Gotta jump in here and change the direction of this thread.

I must absolutely applaud the City of Edmonton (that is, the city council) for standing up for themselves against Katz. Ever since I heard the story yesterday that Council decided to "explore other (partnerless!) options, I haven't been able to stop giggling to myself over this.

Katz and the city of Edmonton had a deal in place last October, and ever since that deal Katz has been pushing his luck...looking for concessions here.....perhaps a little extra cash there.....to me, he ended up very much sounding/feeling like the Innkeeper from Les Miserables.

He pushed his luck, got busted for it, and now Edmonton won't talk to him again unless he's willing to go back to the original agreement.

No kidding. He was given what he asked for but then decided to keep pushing. He pulled the cheap stunt of threatening to take his toy (the Oilers) & go to a different playground (Seattle) to get his way. It was an empty threat that only made him look like a dumb chicken tikka masala.

The government(s) were paying for the arena but he wants them to cover the cost of everything he envisions surrounding it while paying him to run it.

In the NHL any move of a franchise requires BoG approval.

It would probably take more then a Katz tantrum/bluff for the governors to approve moving a money making team to an unknown when moving a money loser doing well there is a possible win. Even if the team moved only loses the same as they presently do it's break even. So moving a team that contributes to the financial health of the league for a possible loss is unlikely.

Seattle might get a franchise but it will be a money bleeder that has a chance of making $s rather then a team that contributes to the overall HRR.

That's why you see teams like the Thrashers moved rather then teams that make money.

If Katz thinks he's losing money owning the franchise he could put them up for sale. With the city talking about financing the arena themselves rather then submitting to blackmail a new owner is likely to implore the city to give him/them anything approaching that sweetheart deal. Or the city can build it & collect a reasonable rent for the 41 games to help the teams bottom line while receiving the profit from any other events held there (concerts, Ice Capades, wrestling or anything else that sells out the arena).

If Katz sold the Oilers & negotiated a lease with Seattle he'd probably get an OK from other owners to buy a struggling team & move it. (If Oiler fans are lucky he'll take KLowe & his bunch with him so the Oilers can hire a front office that has a commitment to winning.

_______________________________________________

Winnipeg folks will know what I mean when I say it reminds me of David Asper deciding he wanted to own the Bombers. Someone else pays for everything while giving him the prime site the existing stadium is sitting on. When it generates profit he might be able to pay taxes to offset the cost.

[Carty]

Or the city can build it & collect a reasonable rent for the 41 games to help the teams bottom line while receiving the profit from any other events held there (concerts, Ice Capades, wrestling or anything else that sells out the arena).

About a year ago I became aware of a surprising fact...

Rexall Place is the 27th busiest arena on the planet for non-sporting events... http://www.edmontonjournal.com/homes/home-renovating/official+Paul+McCartney+plays+Edmonton+Rexall+Place/7206794/story.html (recent related article that mentions that fact)

A contributing factor, believe it or not, Edmonchuk actually gets a lot of big name rock concerts that Calgary doesn't... I think that 30 or more years ago the opposite was true, but over the decades the trend has reversed... Very Shortly after that article was written, McCartney booked a second date which again was sold out in minutes...

Katz is a shrewd money making weasel... His 100 mil he keeps spouting off about was not going to even be paid up front, but rather over time... The 250 mil figure he has mentioned is all smoke, it is kind of like me saying you build me a garage to put my car in, and you then pay me 100 dollars a month to look after it while also allowing me to rent out the other half of it that I don`t need and keep all of the money... Then over the next couple of years I will give you back a hundred bucks from the money you have given me and I will keep the rest including the rent I made from the empty space I did not need... In the meanwhile, you will also landscape the yard around the garage to make the garage more attractive so I can increase what I charge to rent out the empty space I do not need. and at some point down the road you might see back another hundred and fifty bucks back from the money you have given me...

Katz just wants to cut the Northlands group out of the picture so he can keep all of the money for himself... He wants to make money using other peoples money to start with, and it`s not like he can not afford to finance the entire project himself either...

Katz personal salary (personal income) that he draws from his empire is $250,000,000.00... A YEAR!!!

I hope Edmonton moves forward on their own and cuts Katz out of the deal... They could then give him a short term lease (so he can protect himself if revenues fall and then renegotiate)...

Due to how busy Rexall is already with non-sporting event events, the new building should only get even more revenue to help pay for it...

A couple of days ago there was an article in an Edmonton newspaper, I forget if it was in the Sun or the Journal... But it stated that the Oilers were the 5th most profitable team in the league last season...

I found that surprising as well, but I can believe it... At the end of the season when all hope was long ago lost for any hope for the Oilers season, I had a old friend of mine from Slave Lake that wanted to bring his wife down for a game (she's actually a bigger hockey fan than he is)... I had extremely limited options while trying to get 4 seats together, and this was for a game against the freakin' Ducks... I could pay about $400.00 for 4 mid level second tier seats either in a corner or behind the net, or I had the option that I ended up going with and paid a little over $1,000.00 for 4 mid level first tier seats on the blueline...

We can say a lot of derogatory things about the Oilers, and sometimes they have just made that all too easy to do... But they do have a strong hockey market...

The league is NOT going to allow Katz to move a team that is making money for the league to an unknown and unproven market... A new arena is in order, but the need for it is not as urgent as Katz proclaims... One way or another it will get done, with or hopefully without Katz... Calgary will need to look at a new arena as well, but again, the need there also has some wiggle room in the time frame...

If any Oilers fan burps or farts and then sees a haze develop in the room, do not be alarmed... This is not a medical condition... It is just Katz blowing smoke up your chicken tikka masala...

As much as I like to poke fun at your team, I look forward to the day when we can all once again enjoy the resurgence of the battle of Alberta...

[ConnorFutureGM]

About a year ago I became aware of a surprising fact...

Rexall Place is the 27th busiest arena on the planet for non-sporting events... http://www.edmontonjournal.com/homes/home-renovating/official+Paul+McCartney+plays+Edmonton+Rexall+Place/7206794/story.html (recent related article that mentions that fact)

A contributing factor, believe it or not, Edmonchuk actually gets a lot of big name rock concerts that Calgary doesn't... I think that 30 or more years ago the opposite was true, but over the decades the trend has reversed... Very Shortly after that article was written, McCartney booked a second date which again was sold out in minutes...

Katz is a shrewd money making weasel... His 100 mil he keeps spouting off about was not going to even be paid up front, but rather over time... The 250 mil figure he has mentioned is all smoke, it is kind of like me saying you build me a garage to put my car in, and you then pay me 100 dollars a month to look after it while also allowing me to rent out the other half of it that I don`t need and keep all of the money... Then over the next couple of years I will give you back a hundred bucks from the money you have given me and I will keep the rest including the rent I made from the empty space I did not need... In the meanwhile, you will also landscape the yard around the garage to make the garage more attractive so I can increase what I charge to rent out the empty space I do not need. and at some point down the road you might see back another hundred and fifty bucks back from the money you have given me...

Katz just wants to cut the Northlands group out of the picture so he can keep all of the money for himself... He wants to make money using other peoples money to start with, and it`s not like he can not afford to finance the entire project himself either...

Katz personal salary (personal income) that he draws from his empire is $250,000,000.00... A YEAR!!!

I hope Edmonton moves forward on their own and cuts Katz out of the deal... They could then give him a short term lease (so he can protect himself if revenues fall and then renegotiate)...

Due to how busy Rexall is already with non-sporting event events, the new building should only get even more revenue to help pay for it...

A couple of days ago there was an article in an Edmonton newspaper, I forget if it was in the Sun or the Journal... But it stated that the Oilers were the 5th most profitable team in the league last season...

I found that surprising as well, but I can believe it... At the end of the season when all hope was long ago lost for any hope for the Oilers season, I had a old friend of mine from Slave Lake that wanted to bring his wife down for a game (she's actually a bigger hockey fan than he is)... I had extremely limited options while trying to get 4 seats together, and this was for a game against the freakin' Ducks... I could pay about $400.00 for 4 mid level second tier seats either in a corner or behind the net, or I had the option that I ended up going with and paid a little over $1,000.00 for 4 mid level first tier seats on the blueline...

We can say a lot of derogatory things about the Oilers, and sometimes they have just made that all too easy to do... But they do have a strong hockey market...

The league is NOT going to allow Katz to move a team that is making money for the league to an unknown and unproven market... A new arena is in order, but the need for it is not as urgent as Katz proclaims... One way or another it will get done, with or hopefully without Katz... Calgary will need to look at a new arena as well, but again, the need there also has some wiggle room in the time frame...

If any Oilers fan burps or farts and then sees a haze develop in the room, do not be alarmed... This is not a medical condition... It is just Katz blowing smoke up your chicken tikka masala...

As much as I like to poke fun at your team, I look forward to the day when we can all once again enjoy the resurgence of the battle of Alberta...

I haven't checked my pulse to see if I'm still ticking yet but I think we more or less agree.

Katz's handling of this arena has gone horribly within the last year.

[Flyerfan52]

I haven't checked my pulse to see if I'm still ticking yet but I think we more or less agree.

Katz's handling of this arena has gone horribly within the last year.

Connor, this is something we all can agree on.

I think it's clear that whatever team we cheer for we all want the BoA to be a battle of probable champions again.

What Katz has done is try to take all taxpayers (Edmonton & the Gov. of Alberta) for a ride. He had a good/great deal but still asks for more. His empty threat was trying to hold the Oilers fans hostage to try to get them on his side.

I've often been rather negative towards you (& other Oiler fans) but you must see that the latest Katz maneuver would have you (I believe you said you are 26) lining his pockets for a lot of years. Katz used a hollow threat because Edmonton does have 1 of the most loyal fan bases around so the NHL would not allow him to move your team. There would be a line for prospective owners forming the minute Katz put them up for bids.

Whether you like them or not the Oilers are a franchise that should remain in Alberta. There is a good reason they are the only WHA franchise that was never relocated.

[Carty]

Whether you like them or not the Oilers are a franchise that should remain in Alberta. There is a good reason they are the only WHA franchise that was never relocated.

That is a fact...

[ConnorFutureGM]

Connor, this is something we all can agree on.

I think it's clear that whatever team we cheer for we all want the BoA to be a battle of probable champions again.

What Katz has done is try to take all taxpayers (Edmonton & the Gov. of Alberta) for a ride. He had a good/great deal but still asks for more. His empty threat was trying to hold the Oilers fans hostage to try to get them on his side.

I've often been rather negative towards you (& other Oiler fans) but you must see that the latest Katz maneuver would have you (I believe you said you are 26) lining his pockets for a lot of years. Katz used a hollow threat because Edmonton does have 1 of the most loyal fan bases around so the NHL would not allow him to move your team. There would be a line for prospective owners forming the minute Katz put them up for bids.

Whether you like them or not the Oilers are a franchise that should remain in Alberta. There is a good reason they are the only WHA franchise that was never relocated.

I'm not sure what his end game is.

He is going around to other cities and the guy that are formally respected who is now Katz's mouth piece, Stauffer, keeps telling the public on a daily basis how the Oilers could be relocated.

Katz grew up in Edmonton as a big fan and he obviously has the money to own a stable sports team. I'm not sure if all his moves or lack there of are ill timed bravado of a true Oiler fan or a somewhat heartless moves from a pure businessman.

Either way, he needs a new PR manager and Stauffer needs to stop campaigning for that role.

[conundrumed]

What I've been wondering all along with this arena plan is how are you going to move people.

Are you planning a "Grand Central" LRT station underneath the complex? Expanding the N-S downtown capacity and actually creating E-W people movers?

Driving access is terrible, are they just going to flood the streets after events?

The biggest part of a venue is getting people in and out without reducing them to hysterics.

If Katz expects the city to pick up the tab on mega-transport infrastructure due to where he wants to move 20,000+ people in and out of, he's out of his mind.

Calgary has the same problem, you see these nice stations about town, but in the downtown where you make connections, you're dropped on the street around a lot of shadiness.

That doesn't happen in big cities anywhere outside of Alberta.

The cities are built, now I scratch my head as to how you develop your people moving capacity after the fact. In the air or underground are the only options.

[DirtyDeeds]

Gotta jump in here. It might sound rude but so be it. What makes you people think this is at all possible, for any team? The idea is complete insanity. What player would actually elect to intentionally lose? The only one that would do this is one that wants out of the game.

Imagine this, Jay Feaster walks into the dressing room and says "OK guys, we just are not good enough to make playoffs any more. What I'd like for you to do is intentionally lose so we can get some top end draft picks for the next three or four years. Thanks."

Now you tell me what the Flames players would be thinking:

* Wow, my own G.M. doesn't have any faith in me?

* If we intentionally play bad, then what team would want me since the Flames don't think I'm good enough?

* If I lose on purpose and we do get top draft picks, wouldn't those draft picks replace me on the lineup?

* If I intentionally play bad, wouldn't that restrict my ability to get a better contract here or anywhere else?

* If we actually do this, am I not risking my entire career?

These people are professional players playing in the top league on the planet for millions of dollars a year. There is no way, NO WAY they would intentionally play badly so some snot nosed little 18 year old can come to the team and destroy the vets career and pride by showing them up. It just would not and can not happen. They have too much at stake, too much pride, and too much to lose. There isn't a hockey player in this league that would do it, period. It didn't happen in Edmonton, and it will not happen anywhere else.

Seriously now....

You actually think the players don't know when they suck as a team?

You actually think a GM would have to walk in and tell them they suck? Unless they are not playing up to their potential and they need a GM kick-start no GM would.

For the record Jay Feaster didn't walk into our dressing room to say we weren't good enough, instead he did it between periods in an interview on TV. That would be the "Fool me once and won't fool me twice" interview going into the last trade deadline.

Intentionally play badly...No. Interesting way to put it but not accurate. If you don't have the horses to play much better and the team/Club isn't trying to improve it, then the motivation to play better isn't there either.

You only need to follow the money. When you get owners who don't want to or can't spend the money to bring in the better players you can get a better indication.

Have the Oilers been spending close to their budget??

[alicenchains]

The Oilers were spending close to the cap up until the last 2 years.

[bronco73]

Seriously now....

You actually think the players don't know when they suck as a team?

You actually think a GM would have to walk in and tell them they suck? Unless they are not playing up to their potential and they need a GM kick-start no GM would.

For the record Jay Feaster didn't walk into our dressing room to say we weren't good enough, instead he did it between periods in an interview on TV. That would be the "Fool me once and won't fool me twice" interview going into the last trade deadline.

Intentionally play badly...No. Interesting way to put it but not accurate. If you don't have the horses to play much better and the team/Club isn't trying to improve it, then the motivation to play better isn't there either.

You only need to follow the money. When you get owners who don't want to or can't spend the money to bring in the better players you can get a better indication.

Have the Oilers been spending close to their budget??

????

you might want to re-read my post. The entire post was hypothetical BS to illustrate that professional athletes are not wont to intentionally tank so some young kids can come in and take their place. I know Feaster didn't do it. I know he wouldn't do it.

The Edmonton situation has NOTHING to do with money. They had been up until the last two seasons spending right to the cap, and they offered boatloads of money to get talent to come in, but nobody wanted to come in.

[conundrumed]

????

you might want to re-read my post. The entire post was hypothetical BS to illustrate that professional athletes are not wont to intentionally tank so some young kids can come in and take their place. I know Feaster didn't do it. I know he wouldn't do it.

The Edmonton situation has NOTHING to do with money. They had been up until the last two seasons spending right to the cap, and they offered boatloads of money to get talent to come in, but nobody wanted to come in.

I just don't understand how there never seemed to be any urgency in building a better back end.

I don't think anyone tanks it for picks, so I think that's just good anti-oilers propaganda!

But the lack of focus on Dmen & G since the slide makes me scratch my head, mgmt really seems to have half-assed it.

Add in Lowe handed out setback contracts like candy after the SCF run, and I think that's more of the ditch Edmonton has been stuck in.

Does it not bother you Oil fans that Lowe gets promoted??

Am I wrong in thinking the misery has been and remains mainly his fault?

[jjgallow]

Gotta jump in here. It might sound rude but so be it. What makes you people think this is at all possible, for any team?

I also don't intend to be rude, but my comments were about the Oilers organization as a whole, not any one player choosing to lose (and that happens fairly regualarly as well, just so you know).

http://espn.go.com/olympics/summer/2012/badminton/story/_/id/8221408/2012-london-olympics-eight-badminton-players-disqualified-trying-lose-matches

Again, don't mean to be rude, but you remind me of people I remember in the 80's who got angry at the slightest slight towards Peter Pocklington. Fans would have defended him to the death. Even some players. A few of them did.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/peter-pocklington-charged-with-securities-fraud-1.795837

To be clear, I wasn't accusing the players of trying to lose. How could I, when none of them are willing to even play?

I'm not saying that there are evil people in charge of the Oilers Organization. Lord knows lying and cheating has done this world it's share of good as well. For instance:

http://www.livestrong.com

I just don't think we should have any illusions about what paid professional sports is and how it's managed.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1138020/index.htm

p.s...I Really hope that I don't sound negative here, or worst of all, discouraging for Oilers fans. I really do believe that all their dreams can come true. All it will take is $39.99 plus shipping and handling, and the ability to pucker up and blow (which shouldn't be a problem):

http://shop.nhl.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3054294

[bronco73]

I also don't intend to be rude, but my comments were about the Oilers organization as a whole, not any one player choosing to lose (and that happens fairly regualarly as well, just so you know).

http://espn.go.com/olympics/summer/2012/badminton/story/_/id/8221408/2012-london-olympics-eight-badminton-players-disqualified-trying-lose-matches

Your accusation was that they "played bad to lose", and this proof you supply happened in other sports by athletes in sports other than hockey. Oh and by the way they were not throwing away the whole season, they were throwing 1 game. big difference.

Again, don't mean to be rude, but you remind me of people I remember in the 80's who got angry at the slightest slight towards Peter Pocklington. Fans would have defended him to the death. Even some players. A few of them did.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/peter-pocklington-charged-with-securities-fraud-1.795837

To be clear, I wasn't accusing the players of trying to lose. How could I, when none of them are willing to even play?

For the record, I never defended Peter Pocklington. I do however defend my team when people make completely idiotic claims that they should know are not fact yet make them anyway. And that team that is "unwilling to play" beat your team quite a few times over the past several years, and of the two was the last to make it to the stanley cup finals. If they are not willing to play, then what does that say of your team?

I'm not saying that there are evil people in charge of the Oilers Organization. Lord knows lying and cheating has done this world it's share of good as well. For instance:

http://www.livestrong.com

I just don't think we should have any illusions about what paid professional sports is and how it's managed.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1138020/index.htm

p.s...I Really hope that I don't sound negative here, or worst of all, discouraging for Oilers fans. I really do believe that all their dreams can come true. All it will take is $39.99 plus shipping and handling, and the ability to pucker up and blow (which shouldn't be a problem):

http://shop.nhl.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3054294

No, you sound like somebody who hides a bit of envy at the fact that they may just be in the upwards swing. You lambaste the Oilers for being so bad and not trying, yet you cheer for the Flames who have not done much better in recent years and have been accused of the same things, disinterest, unwillingness to try, etc, by many of its fans. Oh and please, "pucker up and blow"? if you are not willing to have a semi-adult conversation then you aren't worth having one with at all.

[bronco73]

I just don't understand how there never seemed to be any urgency in building a better back end.

I don't think anyone tanks it for picks, so I think that's just good anti-oilers propaganda!

But the lack of focus on Dmen & G since the slide makes me scratch my head, mgmt really seems to have half-assed it.

Add in Lowe handed out setback contracts like candy after the SCF run, and I think that's more of the ditch Edmonton has been stuck in.

Does it not bother you Oil fans that Lowe gets promoted??

Am I wrong in thinking the misery has been and remains mainly his fault?

They went after Pronger and got him, only to have him demand a trade out within a year. They way overpaid to get Souray out of Montreal only to have him demand a trade out within a few years. They aggresively went after and got Ryan Whitney, who then proceeded to get inured every time he eve looked at the ice. seeing a lack of toughness they got Andy Sutton. They brought in Tom Gilbert, one of university hockeys top defensemen at the time, and he ended up being a disappointment. They overpaid to get one of (they thought) the better goaltenders in the league, khabibulin, to come here and he turned out to be considerably less than stellar.

They did go after defensemen, but until now it hasn't really panned out for them. I agree that they didn't draft many (Gilbert being the exception) but they did attempt to make their defense better, it just didn't work.

The Lowe thing handing out contracts like candy IMO was because nobody wanted to play for Edmonton. I believe he did it to show people that he wasn't afraid to overpay if they would be willing to give him a shot.

Yes it bothers some Oiler fans that he got promoted. I am of the opinion that many of Edmontons problems are due to bad management from Lowe, but definitely not all of them. There are lots of factors out there that contributed to the teams downfall, but losing on purpose is not one of them.