Oilers

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, bronco73 said:

I think this is dependent on what names are able to be moved out and what other names are able to be signed at.  I.E, moving Eberle for Strome saved 3.5 in cap room for arguably an equivalent player.  If Nugent Hopkins can be moved (YES PLEASE!!) in the same manner then the cap issues would not be quite so obvious.  Almost every team is tight to the cap and tough decisions have to be made to gain cap relief, Edmonton and Pittsburgh are no different. 

 

I think it's really dependent on why the trade was made.  Trading Eberle for Strome, so that Strome might find success as McDavid's RW makes sense.  Trading a RW for a C doesn't make sense.  Trading a $6m long term deal for a one year cap savings doesn't make sense.  If Strome is great as a RW for McDavid, he will cost too much.  If they use him as the #2 or #3C, then they can't afford Nuge.  If Nuge cements himself as the 2nd best center on the team, then they can't trade him without major loss on the forward end.

 

 

 

  

[cross16]

they are going to need to work on some salaries sure but part of it is just going to let cost certainly do the work. It's not like the Oilers having key veterans right now and need to win in the next 2-3 years. They obviously have a big window next year, but i think in 3-4 years when there is another 6-8 million on the cap suddenly those deals won't look bad at all and they will still only be half way through. I know Talbot will be on that list but between moving Nuge, Sekera and the cap going up there is room.

 

As I said the bigger issue for me and what I would worry about more if I were an Oiler fan is what do you have in Draisatl. If he can continue his playoff success you'll be able to build a team with cheaper options, but if he doesn't then you'll be in trouble because you'll be trying to bring in players to support him. 

[bronco73]

8 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think it's really dependent on why the trade was made.  Trading Eberle for Strome, so that Strome might find success as McDavid's RW makes sense.  Trading a RW for a C doesn't make sense.  Trading a $6m long term deal for a one year cap savings doesn't make sense.  If Strome is great as a RW for McDavid, he will cost too much.  If they use him as the #2 or #3C, then they can't afford Nuge.  If Nuge cements himself as the 2nd best center on the team, then they can't trade him without major loss on the forward end.

 

 

 

  

My belief is that RNH is part of the reason that Eberle was traded for Strome.  With Strome being a center it makes Nugent Hopkins expendable, I.E.  Puljujarvi moving up to the NHL squad at his natural right wing taking Eberle's spot, Strome slotting in as a center taking RNH's spot.  Aside from RNH there is now a decent enough core of centers on the squad (McDavid, Draisaitl, Strome, Letestu... plus others like Slepyshev and Caggiula have center experience), so Nugent Hopkins can be moved out to acquire depth at other positions. 

 

To me it all made perfect sense.  The tougher job IMO is finding a trading partner willing to take on RNH, especially without salary retention.

[bronco73]

6 hours ago, cross16 said:

they are going to need to work on some salaries sure but part of it is just going to let cost certainly do the work. It's not like the Oilers having key veterans right now and need to win in the next 2-3 years. They obviously have a big window next year, but i think in 3-4 years when there is another 6-8 million on the cap suddenly those deals won't look bad at all and they will still only be half way through. I know Talbot will be on that list but between moving Nuge, Sekera and the cap going up there is room.

 

As I said the bigger issue for me and what I would worry about more if I were an Oiler fan is what do you have in Draisatl. If he can continue his playoff success you'll be able to build a team with cheaper options, but if he doesn't then you'll be in trouble because you'll be trying to bring in players to support him. 

I agree.  My problem with Draisaitl is that he is prone to making so many mental errors (maybe because of his age), bad blind passes, poor transition choices etc.  I'd rather have seen a bridge deal.  Mind you, a strong performance during the bridge deal could have ended up resulting in an even higher payday at it's completion.  Tough call with Draisaitl, but one thing I am fairly confident in is that had this contract not been made, there would have been several teams tendering offer sheets with similar deals.

[jjgallow]

20 minutes ago, bronco73 said:

To me it all made perfect sense.  

 

Which part of the last decade?

 

Sorry, that was low, lol.  Yet necessary..    I am less concerned about position actually, so I'll give you that.  My two issues are:

 

1. Strome is an inferior player.  Straight up.  And I don't even like Eberle.   Not the same calibre.  Might have more of a complete game (very arguable).  Might be bit bigger.  

               Nobody cares...the Oilers gave up an elite player for some one who is absolutely not.   

               They did it for reasons that will force them to continue to give up more elite players for non-elite players in the future.

 

2.  Strome will end up costing them even more money, as Cross alluded to, if he proves the above wrong.  And if he plays poorly, he'll still command similar money to Eberle in order to retain him in Edmonton.   So why did they do it?  For the same reason they've made all their moves in the last 10 years.

     Because they are dumb.

 

 

p.s... With regards to positions...your strategy has some sound logic to it in relation to RNH.   But it relies on faith that the Oilers will essentially vindicate this current trade with the brilliance of their next trade.  Which traditionally has not worked when following the Oilers' moves.  I still commend the positive thinking.

[bronco73]

ya man Eberle is in no sense of the word an elite player.  Just blow in his direction and you knock him off the puck.  He's got tons of talent but takes so many nights off.  If Strome does pan out, which I believe he will, I can definitely see a pay raise but not in the 6 million territory that Eberle earned. 

 

Eberle by his own play earned his ticket out of town.  He was weak and apathetic on many nights.  He brought his "dazzle" less and less often, and is horrible defensively.  The Oilers moved an expensive underperformer for one that cost less than half as much but plays a more complete game albeit less flashy... no downside there IMO.

 

BTW I didn't just happen upon this newfound dislike for Eberle, if you see my posts over the last few years on him I have had a gradually worsening opinion of him over that time. 

 

On the moves you do have a point, Their Oilers trade history in the 2000's has been nothing short of dismal, however that was then and this is now.  It isn't MacTavish or Lowe making the trades any more, it's Chiarelli and thus far he's done a very good job IMO.  Trading virtually nothing for Maroon with Anaheim retaining half salary, acquiring Kassian (who deserves accolades for turning his life and game around IMO),  Hall for Larsson was a slam dunk (which I originally criticized but the trade has worked out phenomenal for Edmonton) etc.  I finally have faith in Oilers management thanks to PC, something that I haven't had in a really long time.

[jjgallow]

On 8/24/2017 at 0:50 PM, bronco73 said:

ya man Eberle is in no sense of the word an elite player.  Just blow in his direction and you knock him off the puck.  He's got tons of talent but takes so many nights off.  If Strome does pan out, which I believe he will, I can definitely see a pay raise but not in the 6 million territory that Eberle earned. 

 

100% true.  

 

Except an important piece left out:

 

Everything you said above can also be said about Strome.   It's not like they traded Eberle for a power forward.   Strome's biggest weakness is a lack of physicality, and his second biggest weakness is a lack of defensive positioning.   Eberle had 76 points in 78 games as a 22 year old, good for 16th overall in the NHL.  Extremely hard to call that anything short of elite.

 

You may be underestimating the degree to which the Oilers destroy players.   Which will be just as true for McDavid and Strome as it was for Eberle.Even with Eberle's reduced output, however, it still vastly outpaces Strome.    It's all the same weaknesses, with less of the offensive output.

 

Quote

Eberle by his own play earned his ticket out of town.  He was weak and apathetic on many nights.  He brought his "dazzle" less and less often, and is horrible defensively.  The Oilers moved an expensive underperformer for one that cost less than half as much but plays a more complete game albeit less flashy... no downside there IMO.

 

Totally agree.  Also true of Strome.

 

Quote

BTW I didn't just happen upon this newfound dislike for Eberle, if you see my posts over the last few years on him I have had a gradually worsening opinion of him over that time. 

 

Rightfully so.   But the Oilers played a big part in that development.  He definitely "fit in" with the rest of what was going on.

 

Quote

On the moves you do have a point, Their Oilers trade history in the 2000's has been nothing short of dismal, however that was then and this is now.  It isn't MacTavish or Lowe making the trades any more, it's Chiarelli and thus far he's done a very good job IMO.  Trading virtually nothing for Maroon with Anaheim retaining half salary, acquiring Kassian (who deserves accolades for turning his life and game around IMO),  Hall for Larsson was a slam dunk (which I originally criticized but the trade has worked out phenomenal for Edmonton) etc.  I finally have faith in Oilers management thanks to PC, something that I haven't had in a really long time.

 

Their recent trades only look better because it is so hard to value Oilers players.   Taylor Hall for instance.  At his peak, you would need two Adam Larssons for the trade to make sense.

 

But his play just continued to deteriorate, and deteriorate, to the point that Adam Larsson was a good deal.  And also, the Oilers ready needed a boost in that position.   So, yes, for who Taylor Hall is now, it's a fair trade.  But in the big picture, still very dissapointing.

[bronco73]

14 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

100% true.  

 

Except an important piece left out:

 

Everything you said above can also be said about Strome.   It's not like they traded Eberle for a power forward.   Strome's biggest weakness is a lack of physicality, and his second biggest weakness is a lack of defensive positioning.   Eberle had 76 points in 78 games as a 22 year old, good for 16th overall in the NHL.  Extremely hard to call that anything short of elite.

 

You may be underestimating the degree to which the Oilers destroy players.   Which will be just as true for McDavid and Strome as it was for Eberle.Even with Eberle's reduced output, however, it still vastly outpaces Strome.    It's all the same weaknesses, with less of the offensive output.

 

 

Totally agree.  Also true of Strome.

 

 

Rightfully so.   But the Oilers played a big part in that development.  He definitely "fit in" with the rest of what was going on.

 

 

Their recent trades only look better because it is so hard to value Oilers players.   Taylor Hall for instance.  At his peak, you would need two Adam Larssons for the trade to make sense.

 

But his play just continued to deteriorate, and deteriorate, to the point that Adam Larsson was a good deal.  And also, the Oilers ready needed a boost in that position.   So, yes, for who Taylor Hall is now, it's a fair trade.  But in the big picture, still very dissapointing.

Yup, I can't argue that Strome hasn't been disappointing like Eberle.  But he's bigger and stronger, and they both needed a reset from their former teams.  What the Oilers did was move one disappointment for a bigger, stronger, way less expensive one.  Even if Strome doesn't work out and they let him walk it's a win for Edmonton, they unloaded a 6 million dollar disappointment. 

 

Hall actually was moved during his peak though.  He's at the right age and he was traded right after he achieved his second highest season point total of his career.  With the arrival of Connor it was no longer Taylors team, and our D was nothing short of inept.  I argued and argued that it was an unfair trade for the Oilers when it was made.  FlyerFan42 can attest to that.  But in retrospect, Larsson wasn't exactly a late round pick, he went fourth overall in his draft year behind RNH, Landescog and Huberdeau, he's a very good defenseman and has been a catalyst in the improvement of Edmonton's once horrific D core.  Perhaps the Oilers could have gotten something more out of New Jersey but let's face it, the Oilers being a horrible team for a decade were in no position of strength to bargain. 

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, bronco73 said:

Hall actually was moved during his peak though.  He's at the right age and he was traded right after he achieved his second highest season point total of his career.  With the arrival of Connor it was no longer Taylors team, and our D was nothing short of inept.  I argued and argued that it was an unfair trade for the Oilers when it was made.  FlyerFan42 can attest to that.  But in retrospect, Larsson wasn't exactly a late round pick, he went fourth overall in his draft year behind RNH, Landescog and Huberdeau, he's a very good defenseman and has been a catalyst in the improvement of Edmonton's once horrific D core.  Perhaps the Oilers could have gotten something more out of New Jersey but let's face it, the Oilers being a horrible team for a decade were in no position of strength to bargain. 

 

Last year's results were as much a result of Klefbom becoming what they expected of him and Russell's shotblocking over just Larsson.  Larsson is a capable defender, but he's not elite.  Just because he's the best you could get from NJ doesn't mean he's the best you could have gotten.  Capwise, the deals make sense; move out $12m, move in $6.66m.  Scoring depth, not so much.      

[DirtyDeeds]

9 hours ago, bronco73 said:

Yup, I can't argue that Strome hasn't been disappointing like Eberle.  But he's bigger and stronger, and they both needed a reset from their former teams.  What the Oilers did was move one disappointment for a bigger, stronger, way less expensive one.  Even if Strome doesn't work out and they let him walk it's a win for Edmonton, they unloaded a 6 million dollar disappointment. 

 

Hall actually was moved during his peak though.  He's at the right age and he was traded right after he achieved his second highest season point total of his career.  With the arrival of Connor it was no longer Taylors team, and our D was nothing short of inept.  I argued and argued that it was an unfair trade for the Oilers when it was made.  FlyerFan42 can attest to that.  But in retrospect, Larsson wasn't exactly a late round pick, he went fourth overall in his draft year behind RNH, Landescog and Huberdeau, he's a very good defenseman and has been a catalyst in the improvement of Edmonton's once horrific D core.  Perhaps the Oilers could have gotten something more out of New Jersey but let's face it, the Oilers being a horrible team for a decade were in no position of strength to bargain. 

FF lost 10 (years).. I am sure that will put a smile on his face....

[Flyerfan52]

52 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said:

FF lost 10 (years).. I am sure that will put a smile on his face....

Actually the opposite. The 52 is because of my birth year.

 

Nice thought though DD.

[Flyerfan52]

7 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Last year's results were as much a result of Klefbom becoming what they expected of him and Russell's shotblocking over just Larsson.  Larsson is a capable defender, but he's not elite.  Just because he's the best you could get from NJ doesn't mean he's the best you could have gotten.  Capwise, the deals make sense; move out $12m, move in $6.66m.  Scoring depth, not so much.      

I said it on the Oilers board then (1 of the few that saw Larsson as worth Hall) & I still think the Oilers traded a player they no longer needed (it was an open secret Lucic was signing there) to fill a real need. Rumors were Oilers offered RNH (the more valuable center position) but NJ held out for the only 1 of the 3 guys paid $6 million that was @ least worth it. Larsson isn't elite but I'd place him on a par with Hamilton or even Hamonic. & you know how highly I regard Hamonic.

Eberle for Strome was cap related pure & simple. I don't see either as really worth their pay but Edmonton saved a couple of million while the Isles hope Eberle works in the east. RNH will be a similar dump for a lesser player that fills the role of warm body on the depth chart.

Chia lucked into a couple of castoffs in Maroon & Kassian though but if he hadn't taken them both would probably be playing in Europe now. They were both 0 risk/good return bets he won. Probably not players he would have pursued if there were options but he took what other teams wanted to discard.

[robrob74]

14 hours ago, Flyerfan52 said:

I said it on the Oilers board then (1 of the few that saw Larsson as worth Hall) & I still think the Oilers traded a player they no longer needed (it was an open secret Lucic was signing there) to fill a real need. Rumors were Oilers offered RNH (the more valuable center position) but NJ held out for the only 1 of the 3 guys paid $6 million that was @ least worth it. Larsson isn't elite but I'd place him on a par with Hamilton or even Hamonic. & you know how highly I regard Hamonic.

Eberle for Strome was cap related pure & simple. I don't see either as really worth their pay but Edmonton saved a couple of million while the Isles hope Eberle works in the east. RNH will be a similar dump for a lesser player that fills the role of warm body on the depth chart.

Chia lucked into a couple of castoffs in Maroon & Kassian though but if he hadn't taken them both would probably be playing in Europe now. They were both 0 risk/good return bets he won. Probably not players he would have pursued if there were options but he took what other teams wanted to discard.

 

Almost Every addict has a rock bottom, for Kassian it was the Oilers. The oils saved his career and possibly life. Good on him to get clean. 

[Flyerfan52]

12 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

Almost Every addict has a rock bottom, for Kassian it was the Oilers. The oils saved his career and possibly life. Good on him to get clean. 

We've seen similar stories on most teams (including our own Ferland & McGrattan) & regardless of if you like the team/player it's always nice to see.

[robrob74]

11 minutes ago, Flyerfan52 said:

We've seen similar stories on most teams (including our own Ferland & McGrattan) & regardless of if you like the team/player it's always nice to see.

 

Yup! I was gonna say them as well... but Ferland is my favourite player. I can't believe he started at 12.

[Flyerfan52]

51 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

Yup! I was gonna say them as well... but Ferland is my favourite player. I can't believe he started at 12.

I have friends from the Swan River area & it's not uncommon there. It's great that the Flames (especially Big Em) stuck with him.

 

We're all familiar with Theo's story but I'm still impressed with his honesty after he cleaned up. He's a role model proving it's possible to many.

 

Another is Reggie Leach (The Riverton Rifle) who's part of my sig. He'd be so hung over during games he doesn't remember most of his goals (& he was a gunner). He's been sober now for over 30 years, does some motivational speaking & acts as a role model to troubled kids.

 

We see their skills on the ice but the fact they conquered their demons (be it during or after their careers) is even more inspiring.

[jjgallow]

On 2017-08-26 at 10:13 AM, bronco73 said:

Hall actually was moved during his peak though.  He's at the right age and he was traded right after he achieved his second highest season point total of his career. 

 

1.  Those two sentences contradict each other

2.  The only reason his point total was his second highest, as you know, was that he actually managed to play a full season that year

 

Hall was at his peak in 2014, averaging over a point per game on the worst team in the league (some would argue they didn't even belong in the NHL), and he was continuing to improve (already 7th best in the league).

 

Larsson will never, ever, ever, ever...  Ever....  be at that level (ie., 7th best D in the league).  Zero chance.

 

Hall may or may not be.  When we look back on his career, will Hall's peak be 2014?  Or 2019?  Could he be top 3 in the NHL?  Possible.  Could Larsson? Never.

 

That's why the Oilers got such a "good deal".    And I agree with you that the deal has merit.   But only when you abandon all hope of the thought of getting Hall back on track in Edmonton.   And that's the the kind of organization the Oilers are.  Probably best they gave up.

[bronco73]

7 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

1.  Those two sentences contradict each other

Not sure how, but ok.

7 hours ago, jjgallow said:

2.  The only reason his point total was his second highest, as you know, was that he actually managed to play a full season that year

Yup, the only one of his NHL career in fact, followed by one of his next highest total games played seasons at 72 with NJD... indicating he's at a high physically.  He's 25, scoring as high as he ever has, finally playing injury free and full or close to full seasons.  If that isn't his peak, then I don't know what is.  What do you think should be considered his peak?

7 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Hall was at his peak in 2014, averaging over a point per game on the worst team in the league (some would argue they didn't even belong in the NHL), and he was continuing to improve (already 7th best in the league).

According to the experts it is between the ages 25-29. which would put it right about now:

http://www.tsn.ca/pinning-down-a-player-s-prime-performance-years-1.388514

http://www.cbc.ca/news/when-nhl-players-peak-hockey-metrics-1.2646054

https://news.ubc.ca/2014/05/15/nhl-study/

Regardless, I think it's silly to argue semantics.  Hall was traded when he was either at, or coming to his prime playing years.

7 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Larsson will never, ever, ever, ever...  Ever....  be at that level (ie., 7th best D in the league).  Zero chance.

Of course not, he's a defenseman who is not known for scoring.  The Oilers didn't need another forward who could score points but not help stop the other team from scoring even more, they had plenty of those guys.   What they needed was a stud defenseman.  One who can clear the net, transition the puck, stop the opponents from getting scoring chances.  No there is no flash, no he will never be considered a top ten player in this league.  But they needed him in a bad way.  Do you think Hamonic will ever be considered a top 10 player?  But... was he worth acquiring?

7 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Hall may or may not be.  When we look back on his career, will Hall's peak be 2014?  Or 2019?  Could he be top 3 in the NHL?  Possible.  Could Larsson? Never.

 

That's why the Oilers got such a "good deal".    And I agree with you that the deal has merit.   But only when you abandon all hope of the thought of getting Hall back on track in Edmonton.   And that's the the kind of organization the Oilers are.  Probably best they gave up.

There's a bigger picture at stake here though jj.  The Oilers traded a former first overall forward for a former fourth overall defenseman.  They traded from a position of strength to fix a position of weakness.   The deal was overpay for sure, and that was my argument when it happened.  It was an overpay without question, but there was no choice but to overpay.  Good defenders right now in the league are at a premium league wide.  Nobody is giving up premium defenders unless you pay for them.  The Flames just traded a first and two seconds for travis hamonic, who has never been known as a scorer, and went a whopping -21 last year.   He's never in his career played even close to a full season and averages less than 20 points a season.  I don't think anybody is in any position to accuse the other of overpayment to acquire a defender.

[travel_dude]

15 minutes ago, bronco73 said:

 

There's a bigger picture at stake here though jj.  The Oilers traded a former first overall forward for a former fourth overall defenseman.  They traded from a position of strength to fix a position of weakness.   The deal was overpay for sure, and that was my argument when it happened.  It was an overpay without question, but there was no choice but to overpay.  Good defenders right now in the league are at a premium league wide.  Nobody is giving up premium defenders unless you pay for them.  The Flames just traded a first and two seconds for travis hamonic, who has never been known as a scorer, and went a whopping -21 last year.   He's never in his career played even close to a full season and averages less than 20 points a season.  I don't think anybody is in any position to accuse the other of overpayment to acquire a defender.

 

At th time of the trade. Larsson was an unknown.  Trouble sticking in the lineup.  It was a risky trade that just happened to provide enough value to silence the doubters.

If the Oilers didn't have Talbot and McDavid last season, they would still have been a lotto team, regardless of Larsson.  Many on here suggested the Flames try to pick him up from the Devils because he was looking to be mismanaged by them and could use a new direction.  IIRC, the Devils fired the coach and he had a good, full season.

 

I think there are many players that they could have traded Hall for.  Much like the Phaneuf trade, GM's start asking when was Hall made available?  I think you have a good D-man, but you need more than one line scoring all the points.  Drafting history for d-men seems to be poor, except for players that no longer play there.  Klefbom is currently the exception.      

[bronco73]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

At th time of the trade. Larsson was an unknown.  Trouble sticking in the lineup.  It was a risky trade that just happened to provide enough value to silence the doubters.

If the Oilers didn't have Talbot and McDavid last season, they would still have been a lotto team, regardless of Larsson.  Many on here suggested the Flames try to pick him up from the Devils because he was looking to be mismanaged by them and could use a new direction.  IIRC, the Devils fired the coach and he had a good, full season.

True... but they would still have been a lotto team regardless of Hall, they proved that for several straight years.  The devils right now are realizing that they are in desperate need of D help,  losing Larsson hurt them.  Larsson wasn't an unknown at all, he went 4'th overall for a reason.

 

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think there are many players that they could have traded Hall for.  Much like the Phaneuf trade, GM's start asking when was Hall made available?  I think you have a good D-man, but you need more than one line scoring all the points.  Drafting history for d-men seems to be poor, except for players that no longer play there.  Klefbom is currently the exception.      

This I totally agree with, they do need more than one line.  I think that IF they can move Drai back to his natural center on the second line and give him decent linemates (goodbye soft Eberle and softer RNH hopefully),  Strome has to work out, Jokinen SHOULD work out, Puljujarvi COULD make the team this year.  Lots of ifs, but honestly I don't see this team in the bottom four any more for the forseeable future.

[travel_dude]

8 hours ago, bronco73 said:

True... but they would still have been a lotto team regardless of Hall, they proved that for several straight years.  The devils right now are realizing that they are in desperate need of D help,  losing Larsson hurt them.  Larsson wasn't an unknown at all, he went 4'th overall for a reason.

 

This I totally agree with, they do need more than one line.  I think that IF they can move Drai back to his natural center on the second line and give him decent linemates (goodbye soft Eberle and softer RNH hopefully),  Strome has to work out, Jokinen SHOULD work out, Puljujarvi COULD make the team this year.  Lots of ifs, but honestly I don't see this team in the bottom four any more for the forseeable future.

 

Larsson was a depth player on his team.  He couldn't stick.  Many fans were frustrated by this, as they thought he was ok but kept playing in a depth role.  Potential or not, he wasn't showing a lot of it under DeBoer.  

 

I think that last year was as much about Talbot playing lights out and McDavid playing a full season would have kept them out of the basement regardless of Larsson.  A full season of Klefbom contributed to that too.  Not underselling Larsson, just being realistic.

 

Expectations for Strome are probably unrealistic.  Chia is banking on him being a fit.  Swap Jokinen for Hendricks.  Pulju could be a player this season, though I don't know why he had so much trouble last year.  Maybe he is just good against his peer group.  Or he just is having trouble with the small ice.

 

Appreciate the informed debate.    

[jjgallow]

10 hours ago, bronco73 said:

There's a bigger picture at stake here though jj.  The Oilers traded a former first overall forward for a former fourth overall defenseman.  They traded from a position of strength to fix a position of weakness.   The deal was overpay for sure, and that was my argument when it happened.  It was an overpay without question, but there was no choice but to overpay.  Good defenders right now in the league are at a premium league wide.  Nobody is giving up premium defenders unless you pay for them.  The Flames just traded a first and two seconds for travis hamonic, who has never been known as a scorer, and went a whopping -21 last year.   He's never in his career played even close to a full season and averages less than 20 points a season.  I don't think anybody is in any position to accuse the other of overpayment to acquire a defender.

 

Seeing as neither of us are the GMs, I feel we are in the rather not-unique position to accuse whoever we want of overpayment

 

You're absolutely right about Hamonic.   We overpaid, and I've made my position very clear on that on the appropriate threads on this board.   However:

 

1.   If you take everything we gave up for him, it's still not Taylor Hall, and never will be.   Not by a long shot.

 

2.   Two wrongs don't make a right.

 

3.   I only got into this because you suggested the Taylor Hall trade as a sign that the Oilers were making better decisions.   Maybe.  Maybe not.   But at the end of the day, the kinds of decisions that dissapoint me the most with the Flames, are the kind that give Oilers fans a ray of hope, compared to all of the decisions made there.   And that is essentially the difference between the two organizations.   Not that I blame you for sticking up for your team.

[Flyerfan52]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Larsson was a depth player on his team.  He couldn't stick.  Many fans were frustrated by this, as they thought he was ok but kept playing in a depth role.  Potential or not, he wasn't showing a lot of it under DeBoer.  

 

I think that last year was as much about Talbot playing lights out and McDavid playing a full season would have kept them out of the basement regardless of Larsson.  A full season of Klefbom contributed to that too.  Not underselling Larsson, just being realistic.

 

Expectations for Strome are probably unrealistic.  Chia is banking on him being a fit.  Swap Jokinen for Hendricks.  Pulju could be a player this season, though I don't know why he had so much trouble last year.  Maybe he is just good against his peer group.  Or he just is having trouble with the small ice.

 

Appreciate the informed debate.    

Depth? He played all 82 games averaging 22+ minutes the year before he got traded.I saw a fair bit of him since I tend to watch Flyers games & both are in the Metro. He actually was starting to remind me of Hamonic. I wanted the kid in O&B (as I did Hamonic) but the in division part made it unlikely. Hall was a steep price but it was was it was. Hall was redundant with McDavid guaranteed & Lucic waiting to put pen to paper. In that situation I'd do that trade every time.

BTW, don't see that as me putting Larsson > Hamonic. Given my preference in D Hamonic fits my wants much more.

 

 

I agree that it was McDavid & especially Talbot that led to an improved Oilers team but I'll give Draisaitl & Larsson their due as well.

 

Strome  is probably a toss up depending how Edmonton uses the forwards. He plays with more jam than Eberle but is less talented offensively (Eberle will probably do well on the Isles) but Chia gained cap space.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, Flyerfan52 said:

Depth? He played all 82 games averaging 22+ minutes the year before he got traded.I saw a fair bit of him since I tend to watch Flyers games & both are in the Metro. He actually was starting to remind me of Hamonic. I wanted the kid in O&B (as I did Hamonic) but the in division part made it unlikely. Hall was a steep price but it was was it was. Hall was redundant with McDavid guaranteed & Lucic waiting to put pen to paper. In that situation I'd do that trade every time.

BTW, don't see that as me putting Larsson > Hamonic. Given my preference in D Hamonic fits my wants much more.

 

The year before he played the 82 is what I was talking about.  DeBoer was his coach then.  After they removed him, Larsson stuck.

[DirtyDeeds]

On 26/08/2017 at 8:19 PM, Flyerfan52 said:

Actually the opposite. The 52 is because of my birth year.

 

Nice thought though DD.

So he was adding 10 years to your age and not taking it off?  That B..... tar and feather him... burn him at the stake.

. That heretic.   Lol