Oilers

[conundrumed]

2 hours ago, Cowtownguy said:

I am all for Oilers vitriol as well. 

 

McDavid is clearly an amazing player and I suspect most of us here would love to have Edmonton's cap problem. Having said that, I will take issue with a few things that you have said. There are different types of talent. A player can be absolutely amazing on the ice and score a lot, but that does not necessarily make that player elite per se. Crosby has performed so well (and Toews as well) over the years, that the hardware alone that he has earned could generate a revenue stream. He must have a separate room for all of it. McDavid will need to earn his place by winning cups etc. I am not doubting that he will do it, I am just saying we should not jump the gun. 

 

I think we all noted that the Lucic contract was ill advised. It will get worse each year of it too. 

 

Yeah, we sucked against Edmonton last year. I am not sure that we made excuses for losing every game against them though. Most of the posts I looked at sought out the reasons for our lack of success. My point is that there is a difference between a reason and an excuse. Those reasons have been well documented, so I will not get into them again here. I would be willing to put good money that we don't lose all of them again this year. Given that I am not rich, "good money" means all the coin in my piggy bank. 

Points taken, btw, pennies are out of circulation, lol.

I'm sure they're hoping to add Pulju this year too. If Talbot keeps up the solid 'tending, they have the potential to be the pride of the West, unfortunately.

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Points taken, btw, pennies are out of circulation, lol.

I'm sure they're hoping to add Pulju this year too. If Talbot keeps up the solid 'tending, they have the potential to be the pride of the West, unfortunately.

 

Nobody doubt McD will have another great season.  That's a given.

As far as Puljujarvi, he fell off the map in the AHL after a decent start.  Not sure why he has only looked good against 18 year olds.

Where I think the Oilers are going to suffer the most is with the loss of Eberle.  They actually are talking about Strome at center, so I don't know who they expect to fill the void.  It's gong to be an interesting BOA this year.  I wouldn't bet on either team sweeping.    

[AlbertaBoy12]

27 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Nobody doubt McD will have another great season.  That's a given.

As far as Puljujarvi, he fell off the map in the AHL after a decent start.  Not sure why he has only looked good against 18 year olds.

Where I think the Oilers are going to suffer the most is with the loss of Eberle.  They actually are talking about Strome at center, so I don't know who they expect to fill the void.  It's gong to be an interesting BOA this year.  I wouldn't bet on either team sweeping.    

I wouldnt be surprised to see McD have another good season, but I doubt he will continue to be 13 points better then his peers. I think he will be closer to the pack this season. Poolparty is not necessarily a bust yet, being one of the youngest amongst the top group from his draft, but he really needs to get his crap together. I think the oilers saw the 3rd line center spot as a big hole last season, so I think they will try to fix that with strome. I dont really know who they plan to play on the wings in their top 9 this season but im intrigued to see what they do.

[conundrumed]

On 7/9/2017 at 3:25 PM, AlbertaBoy12 said:

I wouldnt be surprised to see McD have another good season, but I doubt he will continue to be 13 points better then his peers.

He just won the scoring race at 19-20. He's averaging >ppg so far.

He's only getting better, we need to stop kidding ourselves.

Is he 13 points better than his peers?

I'd go with more-than-likely.

Talbot on the other hand, let's see how the Oilers can cope with a down year from him?

Not seeing a contingency plan.

[travel_dude]

5 hours ago, conundrumed said:

He just won the scoring race at 19-20. He's averaging >ppg so far.

He's only getting better, we need to stop kidding ourselves.

Is he 13 points better than his peers?

I'd go with more-than-likely.

Talbot on the other hand, let's see how the Oilers can cope with a down year from him?

Not seeing a contingency plan.

 

Can't remember the percentage of the Oilers points McD is on the ice for, but it's pretty high.  I would say a lot of his points this year will depend on scoring from his wingers.

If they keep Draisaitl on his line, they will score a bunch.  If not, then players like Maroon will have to keep it up.  The thing about his assists are that they are usually tap in goals, so a fridge could probably score playing with him.  

 

The defense and goal is where I see the biggest problems.  NO upgrade on defense and Sekera out for some time.  Just signed a depth guy, but that just means they have more 3rd pairing guys that all seem to shoot left.  Brossoit could be a good backup, but they won't use him enough to develop him properly, so he will rust.  So Talbot will have to have another career year playing 70 games for them to continue winning.  Not convinced.

[cross16]

I gets its the Oilers and as Flames you never want thing to go right for them and we need to convince ourselves we are always better, but it's crazy to me how many people still are not convinced that McDavid is the next superstar in this league and already is one of its best players. He just didn't have 1 good seasons he's just that damn good.

 

as long as he stays healthy, get use to penciling him in for 100pts a season year after year because its going to happen. 

[JustAFlamer]

3 hours ago, cross16 said:

I gets its the Oilers and as Flames you never want thing to go right for them and we need to convince ourselves we are always better, but it's crazy to me how many people still are not convinced that McDavid is the next superstar in this league and already is one of its best players. He just didn't have 1 good seasons he's just that damn good.

 

as long as he stays healthy, get use to penciling him in for 100pts a season year after year because its going to happen. 

Many are saying he is elite, no one arguing that (or my memory of this board sucks)

 

personally : my comments were in regards to the projections article that put him at 117-118-119 for a few seasons over the next 9.

While would not shock me if he breaks 100 about 50% of time (assuming league scoring stays about same as is now),

and he will be near or at top of league each season (barring injury) is almost a given

 

IMHO : the whole anti-McD thing is not based around simply him, but the entire media hype of past 3-4 years (pre-draft); and the exagerations/comparisons/projections made about him (yes he could very well be the generational talent for this era of hockey) but i personally want more than 1 year of insane numbers (insane as that far ahead of peers) before comparing/projecting against the "greats" of all time.

[Fins&FIre15]

Not going to lie, every time McDavid picks up the puck, I start yelling BULL****!!!! BULL**** LOTTERY! You should be stuck with Strome instead! XD

 

I can't stand how good he is =/

[The_People1]

On 7/11/2017 at 7:08 AM, cross16 said:

I gets its the Oilers and as Flames you never want thing to go right for them and we need to convince ourselves we are always better, but it's crazy to me how many people still are not convinced that McDavid is the next superstar in this league and already is one of its best players. He just didn't have 1 good seasons he's just that damn good.

 

as long as he stays healthy, get use to penciling him in for 100pts a season year after year because its going to happen. 

 

I think it's two things.

 

1. It's the Oilers.

2. Tanking is unethical so it's normal psychology to want cheaters to lose.

[AlbertaBoy12]

On 7/11/2017 at 7:08 AM, cross16 said:

I gets its the Oilers and as Flames you never want thing to go right for them and we need to convince ourselves we are always better, but it's crazy to me how many people still are not convinced that McDavid is the next superstar in this league and already is one of its best players. He just didn't have 1 good seasons he's just that damn good.

 

as long as he stays healthy, get use to penciling him in for 100pts a season year after year because its going to happen. 

I dont think its fair to say get used to penciling him in for 100 points, people said the same thing about crosby. Hes not going to be 13 points or more ahead of the entire league every year. I dont deny hes a good player, but to expect that to continue I dont know about that.  I think teams will go at him more then they already do next season, and I think he will come down a bit, if the NHL doesnt continue to gift him penalties. 

[AlbertaBoy12]

If anyone is looking for a good laugh read the comments on this 

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/four-improved-nhl-teams-far-summer/.

 

Oilers fans claiming that they draft and develop better then the flames because they got mcdavid and draisital, or the german gretzky.

 

Another guy saying the oilers did more last year last year then the flames in the past ten years even though they tanked, even though we got to the 2nd round of the playoffs two years before them..but hey whos counting.

 

I dont know if the oilers fans are trolling or not, but its hilarious.

[JustAFlamer]

1 hour ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

I dont know if the oilers fans are trolling or not, but its hilarious.

I think the whole thing is based on the oil being soo bad for so long they really have no rivalries anymore.

So the media in hopes of generating hype etc is attempting to revive the BoA which in my mind ended in the 1990 season

The 80's where oil was stacked and flames were stacked at end, was the last time BoA was really all that meaningful IMO

 

We sort of had one with Van for a while, and sort of have one with the ducks now

While we "may" get a rivalry restarted with Oil.  Who do they have historical rivalry with? (only really us, from a few decades in past)

[conundrumed]

5 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I think it's two things.

 

1. It's the Oilers.

2. Tanking is unethical so it's normal psychology to want cheaters to lose.

None of that is McDavid's fault though, it was the NHL's draft lottery that selected Edmonton.

Bad situation on my hockey ethics, lol.

I hate the Oilers, but as a fan, I enjoy McDavid.

Guess I'll have to hold out for Team Canada, lol.

Edit: in the WHC of course...

[Flyerfan52]

3 hours ago, JustAFlamer said:

I think the whole thing is based on the oil being soo bad for so long they really have no rivalries anymore.

So the media in hopes of generating hype etc is attempting to revive the BoA which in my mind ended in the 1990 season

The 80's where oil was stacked and flames were stacked at end, was the last time BoA was really all that meaningful IMO

 

We sort of had one with Van for a while, and sort of have one with the ducks now

While we "may" get a rivalry restarted with Oil.  Who do they have historical rivalry with? (only really us, from a few decades in past)

In the Oilers glory days it was the team that won the BoA probably won the SC. In the west the road went through Alberta.

Winnipeg had some good teams back when all 3 were in the Smythe but were always stymied by the Alberta teams.

 

The BoA isn't just in the media's heads as most long time hockey fans want that revived. Until last season the Oilers didn't hold up their end but it looks like the rivalry that was on life support has a new life just like Frankenstein's monster.

The Jets are in a different division now but look ready to play harder then Jets 1.0 did. Flames are good & regardless of what the children on the Oilers board say McDavid is not Gretzky & Draisaitl < Messier while the supporting cast has no Kurri or Coffey. It'll be interesting as 3 teams that rely on youth (Edmonton most of all) vie to try to reprsent the west while holding off an Anaheim team that just won't quit winning when they need to.

[Flyerfan52]

5 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I think it's two things.

 

1. It's the Oilers.

2. Tanking is unethical so it's normal psychology to want cheaters to lose.

[cross16]

6 hours ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

I dont think its fair to say get used to penciling him in for 100 points, people said the same thing about crosby. Hes not going to be 13 points or more ahead of the entire league every year. I dont deny hes a good player, but to expect that to continue I dont know about that.  I think teams will go at him more then they already do next season, and I think he will come down a bit, if the NHL doesnt continue to gift him penalties. 

 

and until he ran into his head injuries, Crosby did just exactly that. Wasn't until 14-15 that he didn't record a 100pt season and was 9 seasons in a row. I think McDavid is going to be roughly the same. I don't think last year was the outlier at all I think its the new norm. 

 

 

[AlbertaBoy12]

10 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

and until he ran into his head injuries, Crosby did just exactly that. Wasn't until 14-15 that he didn't record a 100pt season and was 9 seasons in a row. I think McDavid is going to be roughly the same. I don't think last year was the outlier at all I think its the new norm. 

 

 

I agree but different NHL, all im saying is I dont expect him to be 13 points or more ahead of his peers. He could very well get 100 points next year, but I think you will see other players do it to. I just think its more likely he leads the league but not by a wide margin.

[jjgallow]

7 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I think it's two things.

 

1. It's the Oilers.

2. Tanking is unethical so it's normal psychology to want cheaters to lose.

 

Exactly.

 

Especially point 2, as well as just plan stupidity, and tanking on top of tanking on top of  failed rebuilds, as well as ruining the careers of some of the greatest hockey talents of this generation.

 

McDavid is the real thing.  Not McDavid real, but very close.

 

But when he looks back at his career, I truly believe his biggest regret will be agreeing to that contract.    Not because of the "discount" (there wasn't one, that's media smoke and mirrors).     Because he committed himself to a team that is so fundamentally flawed from ownership on down, that stands very little success of achieving in the modern NHL.   IMHO, we just saw their peak.  For a long time.

 

Even...with McDavid.

 

ps....I don't see any wriggle room in the cap, personally.  None.   In no world is $12.5m cheap, not with the pieces they are Still missing.

[conundrumed]

18 minutes ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

I agree but different NHL, all im saying is I dont expect him to be 13 points or more ahead of his peers. He could very well get 100 points next year, but I think you will see other players do it to. I just think its more likely he leads the league but not by a wide margin.

Name them. He can put up 3 points on an off night.

That's why he'll be 12.5 per. He's pretty good! lol.

His jr career speaks volumes.

He's the best player, in the world, for his age.

Unforunate fact. but true, we aren't having Eichel-McDavid debates, lol.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

and until he ran into his head injuries, Crosby did just exactly that. Wasn't until 14-15 that he didn't record a 100pt season and was 9 seasons in a row. I think McDavid is going to be roughly the same. I don't think last year was the outlier at all I think its the new norm. 

 

 

 

There are a few things that will impact his goals and assists this year and the next ones.

McD is a sublime passer, and whoever played with him 5v5 and PP managed to convert.  McD will continue to pass while his linemates can score.

If his linemates score less, then he will take the shot himself.  And score more often than not.

 

I'm not gong to predict 100 points every season until I see it happen more than once.  IT's not a slight on him, just that other teams adjust in how they play the Oilers and him.

And the Oilers have decisions to make about using Draisaitl and Strome.  

 

As far as the Crosby comp, it was a different league back then.  

[AlbertaBoy12]

6 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Name them. He can put up 3 points on an off night.

That's why he'll be 12.5 per. He's pretty good! lol.

His jr career speaks volumes.

He's the best player, in the world, for his age.

Unforunate fact. but true, we aren't having Eichel-McDavid debates, lol.

Except he cant put up 3 points on a off night I get what youre saying, but there was games were mcdavid didnt register a point, 20 games actually. Not that it really matters not my arguement, I wont debate him being the best player in the world, my point was pretty simple.

 

4 hours ago, travel_dude said:

There are a few things that will impact his goals and assists this year and the next ones.

McD is a sublime passer, and whoever played with him 5v5 and PP managed to convert.  McD will continue to pass while his linemates can score.

If his linemates score less, then he will take the shot himself.  And score more often than not.

 

I'm not gong to predict 100 points every season until I see it happen more than once.  IT's not a slight on him, just that other teams adjust in how they play the Oilers and him.

As far as the Crosby comp, it was a different league back then.  

While I agree on your assessment of him he definitely doesnt shoot the puck enough sometimes. I agree with you on the 100 point thing and as I said maybe he continues to be way ahead of his peers but I would be surprised.

[AlbertaBoy12]

Anyone else real tired of seeing oilers fans comment on every single sportsnet, flamesnation, tsn etc article about how good the oilers are? I mean they made the playoffs for the first time in ten seasons, on the backs of mcdavid and talbot for the most part. Obviously draisital played a role etc, but they arent very deep at forward, their defence is probably going to be worse to start the season for sure.

 

Call me confused about the optimism up the highway in edmonton. Im not trying to say the flames are leaps and bounds better at this point in time although I do think we are better at D and have more depth at forward. I just dont think at this point oilers could deal with injuries at all, although on that note they lost 367 man games last season, but I dont remember any big names that had injuries.

 

Im not saying the loss of gaudreau wouldnt hamper us, but the flames did decent during that stretch without him. I dont know if id say the same about the oilers if they lost mcdavid or draisital, things really fall off at forward after that.

[travel_dude]

18 hours ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

Anyone else real tired of seeing oilers fans comment on every single sportsnet, flamesnation, tsn etc article about how good the oilers are? I mean they made the playoffs for the first time in ten seasons, on the backs of mcdavid and talbot for the most part. Obviously draisital played a role etc, but they arent very deep at forward, their defence is probably going to be worse to start the season for sure.

 

 

The MSM are the ones fueling their BS.  They tell Oiler fans how good they did, got one goal away from the West finals, how they did all this without the Nuge line doing a lot or the new kids not yet adapted.  You have to be realistic when you view what your team did.  They had a miracle season.  Their PP was really good.  Their goalie kept them in games long enough to win by a goal.  They had way more shootout wins than the Flames.  

 

While their season was better than the Flames 2014 season which had warning signs about regressing, you can't just stay the same and expect to have the same results.  Relying on Letestu for 11 PPG or Lucic for 12 is setting you up.      

[DirtyDeeds]

Oilers only had 2 more regulation wins last season than the Flames. Repeat after me.. They only had two more wins.....

[AlbertaBoy12]

15 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

The MSM are the ones fueling their BS.  They tell Oiler fans how good they did, got one goal away from the West finals, how they did all this without the Nuge line doing a lot or the new kids not yet adapted.  You have to be realistic when you view what your team did.  They had a miracle season.  Their PP was really good.  Their goalie kept them in games long enough to win by a goal.  They had way more shootout wins than the Flames.  

 

While their season was better than the Flames 2014 season which had warning signs about regressing, you can't just stay the same and expect to have the same results.  Relying on Letestu for 11 PPG or Lucic for 12 is setting you up.      

 

11 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

Oilers only had 2 more regulation wins last season than the Flames. Repeat after me.. They only had two more wins.....

Im glad im not the only one who thinks its a little ridiculous especially with all the factors included. Especially when there is no reason Nuges line is going to break out suddenly this season.

 

I think some people seem to forget that the oilers record was 47-26-9 and ours was 45-33-4, the oilers lost 5 more times in OT, which almost covers the point spread between us as it is. The only thing I will point out is the oilers were apparantly more injured then us last season, but like I said I dont remember any of their big name guys missing significant time.