travel_dude

It always good to have an extra player or two on a roadtrip. Beats trying to call them up a replacement when playing in the east.

Grossmann is a risk, so I'm not in favour of him and Wideman together. I would just keep him around for minor bumps and bruises to the other 7.

What? We are aligned in our thinking? Seriously, it's one game but we saw the beginnings of a good defensive structure. Grossmann is fine on the roster as a depth player, but should not be brought in over Kulak. Should only be injury depth when we are on the road.

Cross, I'm not sure that we can say Gio away from Brodie is a problem. Gio with a solid defensive player would be fine. Gio with Hamilton was something that didn't work early last season, mostly because Gio was less than 100%. The alternative, once Brodie came back was Russell-Hamilton, which was horrible. Hamilton improved immensely as the season went on. This season we have seen mostly Gio-Wideman. That is not something that would or should fare well against top offensive lines. You might get away with Gio-Engelland for less than 20 minutes. Maybe Jokipakka is fine for less than 20 minutes, and throw Brodie in there for a couple. I think you underrate Jokipakka a bit. I have seen some smart plays coming from him. He is stronger on the boards than Brodie and more mobile than Wdeman. He is the 2nd best LD we currently have. Anyway, I think we are just going around the topic again, so I will drop it. We can't fix it unless a trade happens or until next off-season. IMHO it's better to have a top pairing, a 2nd pairing that is quite good, and a 3rd pair you can trust. I see no value in having three average pairs.

Our PP at home is non-existent. That is not good in any way, shape or form.

Hey, I'm not specifically blaming GG for this. He's tried things. They work in some cases and don't in others. Looks like he is trying something different tonight in San Jose: Derek WillsVerified account ‏@Fan960Wills 22m22 minutes agoSan Jose, CA #Flames projected pairings vs. #Sharks: Giordano-Brodie Jokipakka-Hamilton Kulak-Engelland Goal: Johnson (starter's net) Elliott

I would say you are accurate in that Gio has to step up himself. What I don't like is forcing things and trying to make them happen. It's one thing to bring in a new system and expect all to fare well. It's another to break up successful pairs, and hope that three pairings capture the magic. If it work, then fine. If it doesn't then what are you accomplishing? I don't think that Wideman and Engelland taken separately are bad D-men. They have limitations. They have things they do well. They are being played because we have no other better options. If you play Gio-Brodie and Joki-Hamilton, then you are stuck with Wideman-Engelland or sitting one and inserting Kulak. If you choose to play Wideman top pair minutes, then you limit the effectiveness of Gio. He can't pinch as much because Wideman can't get back. Yes, you have forwards, but you also can't have a D-man that can't get back.

If we were seeing better than average results, then GG is doing the right thing. But, I think we have seen a lot of average.

Probably making room for the guy they are demoting from the Flames.

That is the simple answer. Every game he plays makes him look like a liability. I'm not in favor of the current pairs. Brodie is not the same. Gio is like a fish out of water. They were one of the best pairs in the NHL because of the sum of the parts being better as a whole. Gio-Brodie Jokipakka-Hamilton Kulak/Wideman/Engelland Alternate Wideman and Kulak in and out of the lineup. Add Engelland into the mix, but not as frequent. I care not about return on Wideman. Play him if he helps you win. I would be comforatble with Engelland playing 3rd pair minutes and give him some PK time. As it stands now, he is playing the most PK minutes, or at least it was that way recently. That has to change whether you think he is a top 4D or a bottom pair D. We are going to live and die with Gio-Brodie-Hamilton, so play them as such.

I would say that at times we are closing the gap better than other times. I have seen some improvement on the other teams entering the zone on a PP rush. Other times, I have noticed that the defenseman has the gap well covered, but then will back off into the center of the D-zone, giving more space to the player coming in. That happens when there is a 2nd player covering the other side. Seems like they still are figuring out some part of the system. Other teams are obviously looking at films and looking to exploit it.

A couple of goals in recent memory have been exactly because the D-man tries to get in the lane or is on the wrong side of a player allowing them position. I can recall two PP goals against that were from Elliott being screened by the D-man, with little to no chance of seeing. A few more have deflected off the D-man's body or stick and otherwise would have been stopped. I would be happy if we could clean up the PK and get to around 84%. I know we are taking the 2nd most amount in the NHL right now, and that needs to change.

We were outshot in all but one of these games. Elliott kept us in it as much as the defense did. A lot of the credit can be placed on his shoulders. Strangely enough, the PK has looked a lot better during that stretch and that can at least be shared between the defense and the goalie. A couple of things that have worked with the recent pairings: - Wideman has looked better defensively - Jokipakka-Hamilton has been the offensive leading pair and have become more solid defensievly

I agree about him looking out-of-sorts on the PP. If you believe in fancy stats, Brodie away from Engelland shows improvement. I would prefer using Backlund as a 4th forward on the PP, and put a RD out there.

Maybe Brodie just doesn't fit with a less-mobile player like Engelland. Is Brodie slower in decision making because he has to be ready to skate back to cover? Engelland is fine when the players he is covering are within reach, but struggles to get back on a transition play. Jokipakka has been more than adequate with Hamilton. He rarely makes high-risk plays, instead he uses short passes to his mates to move the puck. I have no issue playing Engelland. He has looked pretty stable this season. But he is not a 2nd pairing guy that should get close to 20 minutes. Playing him with Brodie isn't working.

The two have been better apart. Together they have not been great. That is the point. It doesn't matter if the problem is Brodie or Engelland; the two together have not been a 2nd pairing revelation. Let him concentrate on shutting down on defense and have Dougie step up on offence.

Since Brodie is having a tough start, and since his fancy stats have suffered since being paired with Engelland, wouldn't it make sense to pair him with Hamilton? After all, we are trying to find the best pairs. Brodie/Engelland have been okay as a pairing, but they are bleeding out there. If we are going to use Brodie on the LS, then let's get hm the best d-man, so that the minutes he plays are not spent entirely n the D-zone.

Not sure of why some thing are being done this way, but I have a few comments. The Flames have stabilized a bit and are winning some games because of goaltending. Being out-shot and out-chanced but winning the game is fine, as long as it doesn't persist. There was a stretch where we were outshot 11-1 against Ottawa. That just can't continue. Engelland played 22 minutes, while Hamilton played 16 minutes. I'm not really sure why that would make sense. Wouldn't Brodie and Hamilton be as capable as a pair? Jokipakka and Engelland would be fine together as a pair. Considering that Hamilton is leading all D-men on the team for scoring, isn't it time to give him minutes more suited to a player of his age and abilities?

I guess it really depends on where the pairings are by TDL. If Engelland and Wideman are 3rd pair, then they will be one or both moved. The cost of a $5.25m D at that time is significantly more affordable then, for teams that have had cap space all along. The other thing is the performance of the other depth players or prospects. Depth players are currency in the NHL. Having two RHS D-men that can fill in or be top 4 is worth a lot. Tempting as it may be to go all in on the playoffs, a smart GM will look at longer team needs as much. Losing both Wideman and Engelland for nothing is a big risk. If all you get back is draft picks, then BT will not likely pull the trigger.

I know what you are saying, but if there is a way to trade expiring contracts that help the team longer term, the deal will be made. Teams will be looking to get rid of NMC's (if possible) to protect other players. Other teams will simply want to get rid of players for something in return. We may be both buyers and sellers.

Two plays by Grossmann that directly led to goals, in the same game. In game 1 of the season. There's really no way to tell what Yokipakka would have been like, but a loss in game one certainly set us up for a series of adjustments that contributed to losses. Yokipakka is not that much of a wimp compared to Grossmann. Grossman can only hit players he can catch. He's on the roster because the coach didn't want to carry 14 forwards. He was signed to get us as close to the cap limit as possible to maximize placing Smid on LTIR. He will be on this team for depth. There's a strong chance Wideman and Engelland will be traded come TDL.

Have we seen that yet? Engelland has surprised me, but I don't like him paired with Brodie. They play better apart. My concern with Wideman/Gio is the minutes. Perhaps a suitable alternative would be the pairs as you suggest, but Brodie takes some of his minutes with Gio. Wideman gets the PP minutes in its place: Gio-Wideman (Gio 24 mins - Wideman 20, Brodie for 4 minutes) Brodie-Hamilton (18-20 minutes) Jokipakka-Engelland (12-15 mins) PP - Gio, Wideman, Hamilton, Yokipakka/4th forward PK - Gio, Brodie, Engelland, Yokipakka/Hamilton

And I'm not harping on about it. Until we get better players, he's about the best of the worst. Wideman makes far more mental mistakes. Engelland has simplified his game, but these types of clearing attempts make me lose it. Not just him. Brodie tries the same thing at times on the backhand, but he has more success because it's harder to pick up the direction on a backhand. Both are higher risk than just flipping the puck high and out.

I would think that there was only so much that Brouwer could have done on that pass. He was already covered on the half boards, so he would not have been able to do much with it. Engelland was solid except for then and the dying minutes. He defended well on the 4-3 by taking away the cross crease passes. His slowness didn't expose the team very often, but honestly, both he and Brodie did better away from each other. Back to the topic of goaltending. Elliott was about as solid as you could hope for. When Kan scored, he hadn't faced a lot of shots. When Brodie deflected the puck, there was only so much he could do. The rest of the time he was in the right position. He was dynamite in the shootout. If I had a complaint, it would be on how he tracks shots off the boards. In EDM, the boards are very lively, and created a scoring chance. In CHI, they were not so lively, so none were as blatant. But there was at least once where he lost the puck and got over just in time. I think Jokipakka got just enough of the puck to keep it out.

You can ignore the comments if all you want is rainbows and unicorns. Had we lost the game as a result of one of those two goal, would you be saying good game? Bollig is where he belongs, so I guess I wasn't the only one that felt he was subpar. BTW, this is a goalie thread, and yes, Bouma has been subpar this season so far. Tonight was the first time he actually made some good plays. Strange that Backlund and Frolik cooled off after Bouma moved there.