travel_dude

I think Craig supports his bother, after the fact. I haven't heard him say anything negative and often he praises the picks. A smart scout looks at sources, but draws upon internal views of fit and purpose. I did find it interesting that Todd said the Flames had no real positional need.

How would you compare Sillinger to Coronato? Coronator seems to have a slight edge in scoring, but Sillinger is a C. I like the reviews of both players, but they always tend to sound pretty rosy.

Ok, so you have me confused. Who are you talking about, Craig or Todd? Are you of the belief that Craig tells Todd who the top 20 is?

JR screwed up PITTS. Tanev was never wirth that. I would have no issue with Coleman, other than he is another LW. I would love to have him over Lucic, as long as it came with cap savings of $2m+.

Really? The director of scouting has the final list. Every name left on it is ranked 1-whatever. As they get picked, they get scratched off. If Schneider was on the top of the list, they would have picked him. I suspect they had Zary and Lapierre at the top and felt one of them would survive the first drop in pick. Seeing who was next selected allowed them to take the risk on the second drop. What you are describing is the way Faster did it. The scouts did their part and him and JB selected oddities and high risks. They chose to ignore some players early on so they could possibly get them later (which they didn't). They barely got Gaudreau before he would have gone to BOS.

Does anyone truly believe that MTL even had a shot?

Agree to disagree. Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Lindholm and Mangiapane score at a rate to most team's top 6. Missing was the Matthews/Ovi/McDavid goal scoring levels. Monahan was recalled to the factory, may not be a lemon. They are all in the middle or start of their peaks. Gio performed admirably during his tenure, propped up at times by Brodie. He hasn't been a difference maker defensively for some time now. I would argue that you need to be closer to Vegas and Colorado to be in your window than EDM. Elite alone does not win games. Having 3-4 lines that can score does. Having a top D pair and a top echelon goalie does.

The west was not exactly a bunch of great choices this year. Vegas, WPG, MTL. COL was the team that should have been playing for the cup. Would have been far more interesting. And I'm not a big fan of them. Kadri cost another team a chance to move on?

Weird year is right. It doesn't reall tell you much other than we played Canadian teams and lost more than we won. If you count scoring by 82 game pace, Gaudreau, Mangiapane, Tkachuk and Lindholm all we at 26 goal pace or higher. Not Matthews level, but a good start.

Gaudreau walking is not happening. May get traded, but not walking. Tkachuk has more of a future here than most of the other players. If there are cracks in the roster, perhaps they are old cracks. Monahan may be broken. Or he has another 6-8 years of being a 20+ goals scorer. All I am getting at is that it takes time to build a winner and we need to add impact players. Our window is not closing, but we have to be smart and not trade away when we are more than a piece short.

Well the biggest difference betwee us and TBL is Vasilevskiy, Kucherov and Hedman. Point is a star in the payoffs and will be soon their best player perhaps. It's hard to really compare otherwise because we haven't gone into later rounds in like forever. Can't really tell how impactful a player could be in one round. That's the part that is frustrating. We miss the playoffs in a year where we could have beat Toronto. Can't say what WPG would be like, but we could bet them. VGK, perhaps not. We have not had a top D since JBow. Sorry Gio, but your playoff work doesn't stack up to the greats. Maybe I am missing the boat, but I don't think we will do anything until we replace the top D. Perhaps Markstrom is not enough too make a difference, but he's been good for year behind a lesser D. So, my wish list is: A great 1b goalie in case Markstrom gets injured. A top 2D; at this point I'm not sure who the partner would be now or in the future. A big bruising D. A top 6 RW. A top 6 C. 4th line.

We agree on most of above, but I think there is as many examples of teams that didn't tank and won. Rebuild - a few that didn't. Tank - more than a few that didn't. Drafting and development don't always fit together. A star player can get there without so called development. If Point and Kucherov are examples of great development, then so is Gaudreau and Tkachuk. I can get behind playing a player in a position to succeed, but it's less development once they get to the NHL. Anyway, I'm bored so moving on.

Yes, I was being funny. I know we won't even rebuild, so tank is not even a remote option for BT.

I thought it was you could only win two in a 5 year span, starting next year.

If there was a path that would get us top 2 in the next two years plus not sacrifice depth picks, sign me on. Unfortunately, to do so we probably have to give up players we would need for a cup run.

If only it was so easy to get that elusive 1st overall. Even with multiple 1sts and 2nds in those year, you ain't trading for 1st overall. Have to win two lotteries in a row.

Of course they lucked out. Kucherov at 58 after choosing Namestnikov at 27? Vasilevskiy at 19 after picking Koekkoek at 10? A disgruntled Drouin swapped to a Francophone team for Sergachev? Point at 79 and Cirelli at 72? It's awesome that they managed to come oiut of those drafts with star players after missing on their 1st picks.

And to bring this back a bit, a rebuild could work if done right, we get lucky and add the right pieces at the right times.

Bolded is ancient history. They actually only have won one other cup since 2004 unless you are using the foregone conclusion they win this season. The only part of their drafting that I was poking a hole in was that they have not drafted anyone of note since Point and Cirelli, both in the 3rd round. Smart drafting to get those guys. But they decided long ago that they would have a core of about 10 guys and trade/sign to build a winner. That included passing up 1sts and 2nds to get other players. And being on the money with 3rd rounders, otherwise they are not a cup winner last year. Only took them from 2007 to get it right. Tampa lucked out with Kucherov, Cirelli, Point, Kilorn, Palat. Hit with Vasilevskiy, Stamkos and Hedman. Only took 12 years for Stamkos to play 1 game to winning a cup. Model for building a NHL winner? Not exactly. An example of hitting on later picks that actually become your best players? Trading picks for players to contribute? Trading a 1st rounder for a better 1st rounder? Absolutely. Only $5m over the cap for 21/22 with 19 players signed. Thanks to perfect timing for LTIR recoveries for this year's cup.

The bolded is true if you are in a rebuild. Unlikely given our penchant for cycling in and out of the playoffs. As much as it appears that we are doing nothing to change that course, we actually do every year. Every trade of more than a marginal player is meant to do something. Every signing is for a purpose of improving. The lack of planning is more of what we are trying to build. Brouwer signed to add playoff experience and toughness. Neal to add consistent goal scoring. Markstrom to add a starter. Tanev to add toughness and defensive ability. On the surface, those moves sound like a direction we were going in. Scouting either didn't identify the weaknesses or completely misjudged the players. I've really got no issue with Markstrom or Tanev. They probably prevent us from being a basement team and could actually result in cycling back into the playoffs. A re-tool might get us closer to contender if combined with the right players and game plan. A rebuild is almost guaranteed to fail, since the likelihood of keeping the right pieces and selecting the next franchise players are remote. If Tampa is the team to be the model of NHL teams, they certainly spent a lot of time wallowing. Choice picks of Point and Kucherov in 2013 and 14, but little since.

The odds are pretty stacked that Tampa wins in Tampa. 1/3 of winning in MTL. Would prefer to see them completely blow it, even though I detest MTL. I detest TBL much more.

Kinvall is supposed to be coming over this summer, but remains to be seen. Yelesin signed with the KHL, so he's gone. But your point about D is well taken. RD that are RHS may or may not be the actual need. RD are for sure. STL may have to trade Dunne and VAN may have to trade Schmidt to avoid losing for nothing. I would prefer Dunne in those 2; supposedly he can play either side. Shouldn't be as expensive to re-sign and he's just a RFA right now.

So, a rebuild unlikely. Doesn't mean you can't and shouldn't try to improve. We are not a team to try to get worse and tank. It also allows us to use another player to improve the team. Thus removing two players from the core that wasn't able to get it done. Let me be clear, Gio is neither the problem nor the solution to being a contender. Keeping him means we run in place a bit and don't transition the team at all. Regardless of Gio, we need to sign a LD in some way shape or form. Ideally, he is big and is young enough to be worth the cost. We can draft all the D in the world, but they won't be ready in 1-3 years.

Minny has issues with losing Dumba for nothing or paying a high price to keep him. Gio is a disposable asset for the draft or possibly a trade chip. I know they probably get much better offers, and really it does actually create some issues for us. Minny doesn't trade: Have to use at least a 2nd + prospect to protect Dumba Lose another asset Lose Dumba for nothing Minny does the trade (Gio passed on by Seattle): Gio not selected, and they lose another player Still have Kylington or the other asset Can flip Gio for a decent return Minny does the trade (Gio selected): Retain assets they would have lost otherwise Have Kylington I'm not saying the trade exists or is likely, but it means we expose Tanev. He was a great player for us, but he has injury risk and will age out eventually. It's a smart pick for Seattle, but do they need him right now? More like down the road.

My only issue is that we refuse to move on, regardless of the return value. The discussion is always trade a younger player because they have value and have not brought the cup to CGY. Yet here we are facing losing an asset for nothing or protecting a 37 year old for one more year. Poor asset management letting Brodie walk and expecting the fountain of youth to be open for drinking. We should trade Gio and Kylington to Mnny for Dumba. They at least end up with one of the two at worst. At best, they can trade Gio for a okay return after the draft. On the other hand, if we expose Gio and he isn't taken, we will refuse to trade him.