travel_dude

How do we evaluate players on the team? Mangiapane played 10 games in season 1, 44 in season 2 and full complement of games in the last two years. Phillips had similar production in the AHL 2 years ago to what Mangiapane had in his last full AHL season. Phillips zero games two years ago. How are they supposed to knock down the door if the coach won't let them near the door. We couldn't do anything to supplement Gaudreau on RW, yet we are unwilling to even consider somebody. Gawdin and Ruzicka are at least NHL size if that's the problem. Pospisil has grit and an okay scoring touch. How do we really know what we have in any of them.

The problem is that Backlund is not a 3rd line C. He plays almost equal minutes to the other C's. We pay him similar money as Lindholm (value deal) and less than Monahan. Backlund does what he does. Not a big change year to year. My issue is that he is aging. Will he maintain his production as long as a Bergeron did? We keep looking for the next Backlund, but nobody has ever got there. Bennett was never close, yet he's about the best chance we had. If we trade Backlund, we need another younger Backlund. The points don't matter as much as the role he performed.

We drafted 3 C's in a row because we needed depth there; Janko was a long term project, while Monahan and Bennett were not. Then a LW, a D, a LW and a C with a RW coming last as 1st rounders. If we choose the BPA at the time (even if you don't agree Pelletier was better than Lavoie), then we are doing what all teams strive to do. Get the best player for their team. We ignored picking up high level forwards and D in the draft due to picks being traded. At some point you need to refresh those spots. Had we drafted 4 D in the last 4 years, we would have a lot less forward prospects. So we would then be accused of only drafting one position.

Overall, I am happy with some of our drafting over the last 7 years. We have guys that have done fairly well in the AHL to date and could become everyday NHL players. Unlike some teams, we have chosen to employ marginal NHL players instead of bringing in the cheap, young guys with some drive. Many of these guys are young, especially the most recent (back to 2019). Phillips, Ruzicka, Gawdin, Philp, Kylington are players that could have played NHL games more than they did. Do these players suck? No, we need to have guys like Forbort, Nesterov, Stone, Nordstrom, Simon, Robinson, Rinaldo, Ritchie gumming it up. I look at a player like Phillips, who could easily have graduated the same time as Yamamoto; similar size, similar junior and AHL results. We had opportunity to use players last year, where it was obvious at a certain point we were not making the playoffs. We were lucky to use them in final throwaway games. Francis is no better in junior than a lot of players we drafted outside the first round. Is he further along? Who really knows. I like the pick, along with the choices of Poirier, Kuznetsov, Nodler, Wolf, Stromgren, etc. They represent picks that look for certain attributes. They all have various things they need to do to get to the NHL, as do every prospect on every team. Lafreniere still has a lot of work, and he is such a gifted player.

Before BT 2008 - 25th - Nemisz (played with Hall in junior, way overrated) 2011 - 13th - Baertschi (never fit into our core) 2012 - 21st - Janko (need we say how poorly Feaster was at drafting?) 2013 - 6th - Monahan (drafted early so we shouldn't count him right) 2013 - 22nd - Poirier 2013 - 28th - Klimchuk With BT 2014 - 4th - Bennett (drafted early so we shouldn't count him right) 2016 - 6th - Tkachuk (drafted early so we shouldn't count him right) 2017 - 16th - Valimaki (too soon to say we did poorly) 2019 - 26th - Pelletier (too soon to say we did poorly) 2020 - 24th - Zary (too soon to say we did poorly) 2021 - 13th - Coronato (too soon to say we did poorly) We know that Burke and Feaster had their own designs on the drafting, so really the only thing at issue is BT and the last 7-8 years. Did he trade away 1st rounder? So did the teams that were stacked and looking to be contenders.

I was actually going to bring up Lavoie as an example of the type of player smart teams avoid. I assume you mean him. The guy drafted by EDM in the 2nd round. His work ethic was questioned and if you happened to watch the Memorial Cup final you would have seen an ineffective player. Followed it up with 82 points in 55 games in his D+1 season. Went to Seden's secondary league this past year. 10 points in 19 games in the AHL. Closer to the NHL how? Because he was an older player able to play in the AHL last season? On an Oilers roster where they struggle with depth, he may be a choice. Ryan McLeod was a p/gp player on that AHL team and managed to play 10 ineffective games in the NHL. What's it all mean? That tweeners and NHL ready are not always determined by player X being over 6'.

He's 19 and played in the top league in Sweden last year. Comparing him to Lucas Ratmond, who played in Finland's top league, they had similar results. SHL is a better league than SM Liga. I don't know what EH will ever be, but you are selling him pretty short at a young age. Based on what?

Ritchie

Well, like I was saying, the scouts really come up with the lists. BT can make arbitrary decisions with it, but that's not really how they work. His fault that he gives that power.

I don't know what it is about him. He goes to the net and basically has nobody touching him. He has a keen sense for where to be for a quick shot into the net. He can skate fairly quickly. He turns the play around to start offense. Other players get decent stats playing with him. And as you say, he's a positive player whenever he's on the ice. Maybe having a player like Gaudreau on his line is the only cure. I dunno. I have seen him turn a 3 on 1 play into a puck into the missed shot behind the net. Like he thinks he's always going to miss the net, so he wills the puck away from it. He's polarizing because he can make you scream at the TV and then praise him. The biggest worry is that he may spiral sooner than later. Not old by any stretch of the imagination, but at the age where you wonder if a drop off is coming.

I get that we didn't pick players you wanted, but I think we need to give some time on the picks made. The 2017 and 2018 drafts were so limited due to when they picked (not the amateur scouts' fault), yet we have 3 guys that could make the NHL. 4th rounders or late. That's not anything to complain about really. The 2019 and 2020 is way too soon to call a pick a bust or a win. But those scouts are not the one to suggest pro players.

Do we need a GM to do this or do we lack scouting at all levels that identify the right players for us. Neal and Brouwer and Bolig and Hamonic and Smith and Forbort and Gus and and and... BT doesn't really have a great understanding of what exact players you need to build a SCF team. He needs people to tell him the right players he needs. Stevie Y and Sakik are two ex-players that have learned how to be a good GM and how to identify the players. Sure, some of it comes from scouting. We have differences of opinions on drafting, which points to scouting. I have said that Button looks at more than just skill. We don't draft poorly overall, but we do hit on some guys that don't work out. The pro scouting is where we really struggle IMHO. Someone said we were told to avoid Risto like the plague. Yet, we somehow went after Neal. Spent way too many picks on has-been goalies instead of a starter understudy when they were cheap. May have cost us a 1st to get a Saros or Sorokin or whatever. Never were in on Raanta or Grubauer when they were available. Who said we needed to go after Lazar? Or that Hamonic was a good choice considering his drop off? My point is that BT takes the heat, but he is not the guy who knows how to evaluate players. He may say he wants a type of player, but he deals with the names and trades to get those players on a provided list. He says get me a Kreider type and ends up being recommended a Brouwer. Or get me a Perron type and ends up with a Neal. Maybe I'm crazy, but I think the disconnect is matching the type of player to an effective player evaluation.

If you separate the moves into years, you see the change in approach. Hiller, Ramo, Elliott and Smith were kneejerk to get a starter to buy time. Failed to follow that up with picking up a potential starter before they had a breakout. Add role players like Frolik and Brouwer, but only Frolik had the work ethic to match the role. Neal was a complete miss on the type of player that would fit the team. The D was a homerun swing followed by picking up a Zarodov type (Hamonic) who just didn't have enough game left in him. Hanifin and Tanev were smart to get a puckmover and a defensive guy. The coach decisions were not well thought out and seemed to be based on someone's recommendations, not results or ideas. But who really knows. Part of a plan or as a reult of previous decisions. We had the Burke effect prior to and post rebuild. This really hampered building in stages. BT didn't really have a free reign for a lot of his time here.

You could say the exact thing about every team. The last two years were "special" years. On paper last year, the Oilers were 3-5, but were buoyed by Smith. We managed to have poor seasons by many players last year. Very seldom do we follow it up with another poor season.

Well, if I compare Dube with Mangiapane's deal after his ELC, Dube hasn't done enough to warrant $2m+. Mangiapane went from an ELC to 2nd deal at $715k. When he followed that up with 32 points in 68 games and 5 points in 10 playoff games, he got a 2 year deal at $2.4m. Unfortunately, an Eichel deal had to have money going out. Like $7m for Tkachuk or $6.35m for Monahan. Or Monahan + Dube. It's alive until the trade is done with someone or BUFF takes him off the market.

The only way you get contender status is to win series. No team in the Pacific is really a contender. EDM needs perfect goaltending, Keith and Ceci being what they were in their best years and bottom 6 to be better than last year; does that even make them a contender? VAN is relying on moves to bring them back from the brink. Vegas lost an All Star goalie and has done little to get them back to the WCF; is Patrick enough? Flames are an unfinished product. They have yet to fix the issues they feel they need to deal with. There are some teams in the Pacific that will have good seasons. Not contender, but good seasons.

It's fair. Not cheaped out, not a one year prove it deal. He has time to build his value and we have two years at a reasonable cost. Obviously, BT has faith that he is easily worth this much.

2 of those players may be part of an Eichel deal? I hope not, but it is possible. Two of the easiest players to re-sign. If they not part of any Eichel deal, I hope BT doesn't play hardball with them.

Or we are near top of the division. The thing about making trades at TDL is that the player has to be desired elsewhere and on a deal that can be moved and doesn't have a NTC. Last TDL, who did we have that matched that? Bennett, Rittich and Ryan. The offers for Ryan were not really there. We got good returns for the other two.

Yeah, the one year is a bit of a problem, but he maybe is unsure of what the team will be. I like the idea that we have a solid D like Tanev and a dirty rotten scoundrel like Zadorov. I hated playing against him in the first round with the AVS. He can go take McD or Drai into the corner or perhaps clear the front of the net.

Well, it's not a huge amount. We have a player that if we want to can trade at TDL to a team making a cup run. If we like him, we can possibly re-sign him before he's a UFA. Either way, it's a one year rental that we can walk away from or recoup assets or re-sign.

Your hatred of certain prospects comes out. 5 other Canadian players on the ice, but it must be his fault. McMichael, Drysdale, Pelletier all out there for both GA. Cozens, Krebs, Byram out for 1 each. 13 minutes of ice, plus the 2 minute penalty he got. Obviously, after the 2nd goal, they shortened the bench. Maybe he got the bench for the penalty or maybe the coach was just looking for something.

No, we are back to GM's and scouts for a team knowing more about their own team than the guys that write scouting reports and services. Stevie Y didn't pick player X because his scouts told him the best choice. The GM's don't have a list in their hands and ignore it as soon as their chance comes to pick a player. But anyway, not going to drag this on. We have two "prospects" in the system and two guys that will be in the NHL. Plus one other guy battling for a spot and a prospect in Russia. I will follow those guys progress instead of going on about guys we didn't take.

What did he play in the WJC? A responsible checking forward meant to be the line you use when you don't want to be scored against. Didn't score like Cozens and Turcotte, so he must be crap? Gaudreau was never at the WJC to play defensively; he was there for offence.

Or perhaps there was some things that took place in the season that the "consensus" don't look at. How a player fits their organization is important, not just pure skill.