cccsberg

They are not final opinions, but they play the games for a reason.

Notwithstanding that NO GOALIE is going to do well stopping well executed 2 on 1s and breakaways, Rittich looked pretty leaky last night and although Gillies was much better against a much better roster, he wasn't heavily tested. Round 1 of the goalie backup wars to Gillies in a decision. He's ahead but leaving the door open and people searching for alternatives. So, next question: are the defensive breakdowns symptomatic or juggled roster/early pre-season rust?

No one is saying Gillies is miles ahead of Rittich yet? C'mon you guys, what's up?

No, 5.5 & 6.5=12. I'm assuming lower contracts on both, saving $1mm.

Nice take, here's how I would adjust: As it stands today, we have $19m for 19/20. If the cap increases to $81m, then we have $21m with 9F and 4D and a 1B goalie. Subtract $12m for Hanifin/Tkachuk at $5.5 & $6.5 respectively... (10F, 5D, 1G, $9m) Lazar and Hathaway dropped. Add Mangiapanne & Klimchuk at $750 each = $1.5m... (12F, 5D, 1G, $7.5) Kulak traded at TDL and Stone traded after playoffs saving -$3.5m the following year... (12F, 3D, 1G, $11m) Add Ras, Valimaki & Kylington for $2.4m. Re-sign one of Hogstrom/Prout for $800.... (12F, 7D, 1G, $7.8) Add Dube and Foo for $1.7m... (14F, 7D,1G, $6.1) You have Bennett un-signed and need another goalie, probably at least a 1A type starter to go with Gillies. You have $6.1m in Cap Room. Bennett is either traded or you sign him and switch him in for someone above or already signed. If Bennett has a huge breakthrough and needs $6m, you trade Frolik, saving $4.3m then add $1.7 leaving $4.4m for a 1A starting goalie. If either of Rittich or Gillies develop into a 1A starter you can utilize the other or Parsons for the 1B/Back-up which is going to add <$1m for the second goalie. If Bennett ends up a 3rd liner he'll sign for maybe $3m, allowing you to keep Frolik and have ~$4m for the 1A starting goalie depending on who Bennett bumps from the 14F above.

No doubt it was a big advantage, but you also said NYR also spent massively, and they got very limited results.....

Bennett's biggest problem isn't his lack of suitable line mates, but the 6" between his ears. If he's able to fix that, watch out.

I think you are correct about the partners thing. Hey, if you are truly good enough you elevate whoever is with you to star status, a la Crosby, who is still the best player in the world by a mile. As for the Monahan 4 injuries, the first was in mid-November if I recall correctly.... so basically the vast majority of the season. Finally, I'm not so sure about Marner either. When in Junior everyone thought he drove his line, but now that we have Tkachuk and see what he can do, its obvious they were just three very good players, and not one superstar. Gaudreau clearly carries his teams, both in college and here too, especially his first year. Marner, not so much.

Many other teams had that same ability and didn't dominate for a generation.

Oh I agree they are all good, very good, just not as good as the Pittsburg three. And the Osgood point backs up my original thought, that overall, TML still have some big holes as a team and there remains a valid question as to whether they have improved the team overall this off-season, or just super-highgraded an element of the team while leaving big holes elsewhere?

Kehatch, your post was so full of bias and misinformation I forgot for a minute I wasn't reading one of the Fake MSM "News" outlets in the USA. Let me respond, with a perhaps more balanced view. My answer to your first question is also no, but I take that completely differently than your presumptions. First off, I am not comfortable that ANY goalie in the world will stay healthy and be effective over a 100+ game season. Such a person does not exist. Not MAF, not Bobrovsky, not Rinne, not Schneider, not Talbot, not Hellebyuck, not Grubaer, not Anderson, not Price, not Bishop..... none. By nature of the game and team play injuries happen, and slumps with stretches of poor play happen. I fully believe that Smith is basically the same as other top goalies with both injuries and consistency. You can state Smith will get injured and that's the end of the season because you don't like the options over and over and over all you want, but others have different assumptions and you are not putting forth any new ideas or arguments to support your view. I would challenge you to prove the point that Smith is particularly "injury-prone" versus others versus basically random, and secondly that he is inconsistent versus others. As part of that challenge show us other goalies that are substantially better in both those categories to back up your point and to prove that there are good options. The same can be said for the backups, though my answer there is yes, probably. Again, you seem to think there are better out there but I haven't seen much if anything to prove they exist in any place except your mind. When you bring up a guy like Talbot, it seems you are assuming a 2017 Talbot, but forgetting the 2018 Talbot... and etc. Hockey is very much a team game, probably on a par with football but even more so because of continuous play and the very limited options to plug holes to cover off for injuries and someone else's mistakes versus the better options, and the set-piece play in football. In both a certain player is critical, quarterbacks and goalies, but frankly they alone cannot win you games, they need others. In hockey you can have a great team but if a key player gets injured it can derail a whole season, and that's especially so for goalies, but also true for others. If Smith does get injured the team certainly may sink, but I can name you basically every other team out there that could be in the same boat if one of their best players went down. That's hockey. However, certain things can be overcome, like Vegas last year who went through 5 goalies but still succeeded. Why do you think that happened? Is their success something others can emulate? What about Pittsburg Penguins when Letang went out in the playoffs? How did they adapt? How about Washington last season, went Holtby went in the tank for while during the season but Grubaer came through for a stretch, only to crater himself once the playoffs started? Every team is going to face challenges and every team is going to have to find a way, just like the "Find-a-way" Flames from a few years back under Hartley. The Flames are vulnerable via goalies, yes, but they are vulnerable in many other ways too, like most. How the organization is able to adapt and overcome is going to decide their fate, not whether or not they are susceptible. There are no magic bullets.

C'mon Peeps, you yourself proved your assertion incorrect. Detroit never tanked, won multiple Cups and was a powerhouse for 2 generations.

Pittsburg did, but then again Crosby, Malkin and Kessel are all a notch or two better than their TML equivalents.... And MAF is one of the All-time great goalies.

That may be the case, but at this point, its all 20:20

Toronto is still a work in progress, with questionable to poor D, same as Edmonton. Whether they succeed or not is still in question. Actually, isn't the "right' way a sequence of G, then D then F?

I haven't watched the goalie practices that closely but you may have a point.

No, Kehatch has a point but he is not right. This is a team game. Every team could have struggles if their #1 goes down. Heck, Vegas had to go to goalie #5 last season after injuries, I guess that really killed their season? NOT! Assuming Smith will get injured is just as much a foolish thought as assuming to know what our back-ups will do if it happens, or how the team responds if it happens, or assuming no outside relief if it happens.

Very well said, thanks!

Agree we need more consistency in them all. One factor I would throw in here is big changes in off-ice personal lives which I believe are huge but rarely get considered. One of the biggest examples is Byron who got married just around/after we lost him then he buckles down and suddenly he's scoring like crazy and becomes indispensable. Rittich just got married about a week ago, and Brodie's wife has gotten much better and they have a very recent baby about a month ago as two examples of key payers on the current Flames. There are probably others too. When you go from happy go lucky to settling down and playing for more than just yourself it can make a huge difference. Hmmm, didn't Backlund get married fairly recently too? Others?

Besides the problem with tanking, way too many assumptions, though I agree fun. Perhaps Barzal doesn't get injured his last year and goes top5 instead of being available? Boston gets Gaudreau just before us. Carolina picks Monahan vs Lindholm? Or even worse, Colorado doesn't match for ROR and we lose him to Edmonton once he has to go on waivers, along with the Monahan pick and others to Colorado? We get left holding the bag. Elliot doesn't let a couple easy ones in in the Anaheim playoff match, but we lose anyways, and we re-sign him for 6 years at $6.5 mm per, but he's no better? Edmonton not only takes Tkachuk vs Puljujarvi who we get, but also selects Barzal and Chabot instead of Reinhart? They also keep Hall and Eberle, and get Hamilton for a couple later picks? Then they get Bishop for a 4th instead of Dallas, and take the wasted picks on Talbot and instead put them to Hamilton? Earlier they draft Kucherov with an early 2nd and win 2 more lottery's getting Ekblad and Dahlin? With their draft luck who would even think twice? The Oilers win the Conference for 12 years straight and win another 5 Cups in a decade (with Toronto winning 4 others) including a 47 game win streak against the Flames?........ ALL very possible. This game can go both ways. I'll stick with BT and our current path, it somehow seems a bit better and I don't have to give up hockey forever and live with nightmares of over-aggressive and arrogant Edmonton and TML fans. Of course, if those teams accomplished that much it would probably be deserved. I may have to leave the country.... YIKES! Hall-McDavid-Eberle Tkachuk-ROR-Kucherov RNH-Barzal... Ekblad-Hamilton Dahlin-Nurse .... Bishop No, no, NO! I do NOT want to play that game of 20:20 hindsight dreaming!

Yeah, this heat is going to be stifling this week.... I'll give you that of all the gambles the Flames are taking this year, goaltending is probably the biggest of them all. As stated previously, I just don't see any good options out there, and we NEED to find out if Rittich and Gillies have a future or not. If yes, then we likely can re-sign Smith for a year as a 1B, if no then we'll be scrambling next summer to find at least 1 replacement.

No, you are beating a dead horse. “Good goalies have been changing hands”? BS: the only potentially good starter who changed hands this summer is Grubaer, who is far from proven. “The Stars are a big player for next season, in part because of Ben Bishop”? BS: I guess just like last season when they also had Ben Bishop, who by the way is not available? “It is also inconsistent with their approach in every other area”? BS: How many years in a row did our GM do the goalie shuffle going and getting the best available goalie(s) only to have it fizzle? “Fleury was a big part of the Vegas run?” Yeah, duh, Fleury is a likely Hall of Fame goalie, one of the best ever. Should we have given up Tkachuk plus for a couple years of MAF? Never, the rest of the team wasn’t in place to make that move. We lost out on Anderson and Jones, just like 29 other teams. So what’s your point? They are not available. Talbot has never been even close to league MVP, much less team MVP. Even if we accepted your premise and gave up massive assets for him last year, even you would be all over BT now after Talbot crapped the bed this past season. Is that due to your poor goalie evaluation skills or other things, things you refuse to acknowledge with our Flames goalies? As for the Flames, if Smith plays less games the probability increases that he will not run into injuries from wear and tear. Check. Both Rittich and Gillies are both developing young goalies just getting their feet wet in the NHL. As per normal young players we should expect they both will be better next year. Check. The Flames just hired a new coach who believes in accountability and doesn’t accept lackadaisical play, which should result in more consistent defensive play, and better goalie results. Check. The Flames brought in more speed in a better defensive player while moving out an offensive-minded guy who was a tire fire before pairing with Gio, plus are moving their second best D back to his preferred side, both of which “should” improve the D game and overall, plus goalie results. Check. Having said all this you still have to play the games and we’ll see what happens. It sure makes for good August blog fodder.

Wow, that's a slap. Can't agree with that at all. I wouldn't mind Carey Price though. BT, get on it.

Hey, nice try. Actually I would just as soon have stayed with/promoted 4 of the 7 guys you mentioned.... We shall see.

Agree, never said I liked it.