robrob1974
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Posts posted by robrob1974
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Looking at where players are drafted is defeating and deflating. It's easy to look at it and then get upset because we could've had just about anyone in the later rounds who've made an impact. We could've drafted Murray and had our goalie but we didn't... You never know about these kids. They're also in situations that determine how they do in their draft years.
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But what i see on the ice is different and maybe I am too critical that the flames are too easy to play against. They start slow and get behind. Sure the goalie needs to make a save, but if you're constantly making the goalie work it is bound to happen. Stats may be better, but what I see isn't necessarily the case. We aren't dominating and tiring teams out. There's no real cycle for the most part. Sure we've gotten a bit better. But I don't want to mask the play with goaltending the way the Rangers and the Canadiens do. I'd love to have good goaltending, but I also want a better team game. Optics look different in my eye is all I am saying. Part of that is goaltending. I think we still miss the playoffs with better goaltending.
I just don't think the play is good enough yet, and that's due to the holes in the lineup. The goaltending is one of those holes. The team play has improved, I get it. I just think we miss the playoffs by 1-3 points had we had better goaltending.
We'd still get bounced in the 1st round if we made it. We don't have enough to beat the bigger teams in a 7 game series.
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How many games down the stretch did we win where the other teams seemed to be into playing it? its a lot different when we are closer to a spot.
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You can say, 5 more wins all you want. Sure, the standings say that, but if we were close to a spot, other teams would have started backups or taken us less lightly at the end of the year.
This year was odd when it comes to everything. Would other teams have changed how they played in their games too if our team was closer?
Fact is, we didn't make it, we were 5th worst in the league for a reason, and it's not just goaltending.
Plus, even other teams played better for the most part. As parity gets spread, it's going to be harder to make it.
Sure the other teams are going to fall as we rise, but there's going to be a time when everyone might be close together.
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Ya, we will get better as the players we have now grow and add new pieces to them...
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I will use two years and compare the two.
2014/15 - goaltending gave us a chance to win mostly every night. The team was not usually deflated in the first 5 minutes of a game by a weak goal. If there was a weak goal in a game, it was made up for by the goalie stopping everything else. The 3rd period's had many more goals for than against.
2015/15 - goals against came in bunches. It was fairly common that we would take an early lead and then allow 3 goals against. Or a goal would be allowed on the 1st or 2nd shot of a game. Third periods were our worst, since we were behind a lot. We would make a push, score a goal, but allow 2.
Goaltending was not the only reason for losses this year. It was the biggest cause. You can only ask your forwards and defense to try to score 3-4 goals for, just to have a chance at winning the game.
I agree and disagree with that. It still isn't a recipe for success to have your goalie bail you out for the first period. Also, in 2014/15 we had what, the second most comebacks in the league when trailing after the second period? That also isn't a recipe for success.
They did give us a chance to win and was a main reason we got to the playoffs that year. But on top of that, both LA and San Jose had bad years and should've made it but didn't. I don't think our play is well enough as a team and it is just not sustainable.
It was proven this year. While a goalie gets us close, the play has to be better. I love it when the team is engaged and playing well. But that was the case in a handful of games only.
Don't get me wrong, I really want to get a good and great goalie, but the team needs a lot of improvement as a whole.
That's part of a building team, we are just not there yet. A goalie will be a good add though. We will be closer to a playoff spot with one for sure...
But team defense needs to be addressed too.
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We get it. You are right and everyone else is wrong. I for one got annoyed watching the Flames play a brilliant game, only to see big Buff score with less than 2 minutes on a gimme. Or seeing Hiller let in 3 goals on 5 shots. Or watch Weise get a hatty against us as well as Byron score a shorty.
Blame the forwards if you like. They can't always score 4 goals a game to make up for 3 GA. 11th on league scoring should result in a better league standing.
Blame the defense if you like. It seems after the defense tightened things up, the wins still weren't coming.
The Oilers are nowhere near what the Flames are. Goaltending would not help them alone. They need too much. I don't see any reason to use them as an example of why good goaltending doesn't fix things.
There were only a small handful of games where the flames played great. And then games where they got no puck luck because they didn't deserve it, games where they didn't deserve it but got it and won (end of the season), and games where they did but didn't get it. This season was more than a Jeklyl and Hyde one. Some remember the few good playing games more than a lot of the poor games.
The thing about for me is, a team who doesn't give it their all for the whole season and comes to play do not deserve playoffs and won't win the cup. The reason I am debating against goaltending is that unless this team comes to play 60 minutes, they're not a cup contender. Not finding a goaltender to mask the deficiencies that I see, which are a lot in my eyes.
For me, it is slow starts, there were a lot of games this year when the team was not present and engaged, and I agree, the fee games that they were, it would've been nice to have better goaltenders.
The team looks good when they give the effort. Too many times did they only give that effort against the higher end teams this year. They have to get up for all games. That's not happening.
I think we all want to be entertained by well played hockey by our team. In reference to the type of defensemen we want or need, I don't think you want them all the same. Having said that you need them all to have solid puck moving abilities and hockey sense for what the opposing team is trying to accomplish on any certain play. Most of the physical tactics have been taken away from defensemen guarding the front of the net so they and the forwards have to be stronger to do the board work and smart enough to plug up the scoring lanes or areas.
The one thing the D are allowed to do, which ours almost never does, is rough up the other team after they've hacked at the puck after our goalies cover it. When team do that to us, there are hardly any penalties. This is part of what I mean by easy to play with and not mean enough.
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However if it walks like a Skunk...
and it has a stripe down its back like a Skunk...
and if it smells like a Skunk,,,
It is likely a Skunk......
Everything points at goaltending as the major culprit. When we got better goaltending from them this season, we won more.... Goals against was worst in league and it got a lot closer to the rest of the teams when the goalies performed better.
What more do you need to know?
Personally I think it is a Skunk...
Ol' Peppy was also quite enamoured with a cat that he thought was a skunk, if I remember correctly.
I think it's both, but I am a minority. The players also tried and lost while the goaltending got better. With better goaltending and 100% effort we are a boardering playoff team. The players we have are a good start to something, but we have all discussed to death about the holes on this team.
I see the play too, and I was not happy with the coverage in our own end most of the year. Plus, the team wasn't always coming out to play from the get go in a lot of games too. So for me, it is both. Right now, they're a slow starting team and they need goalies to keep it 0-0 until the legs get going. So sure, I guess it is all goaltending then.
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Crappy. Hope all is well!
Thank you Kehatch. It's slowly getting better everyday, so it's good for now. Hoping it stays on that path.
I wish the playoffs were over so we can find out what happens with the goaltending.
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I didn't say Ortio is to expensive.
Hahahaha!
I am in the hospital visiting my mom and in a common room with a lot of family talking over each other. I wasn't part of the convos so I was reading the boards and listening at the same time.
I agree he is too inexperienced.
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Doubtful as his QO is 0.660. It's more that he hasn't proven to be even backup caliber in the NHL after 3 years as a pro.
Going by #s alone he doesn't seem to be that great in the AHL either.
It might be he's destined for lower leagues elsewhere. Many players that don't make the grade in the NHL do very well in the Eoro leagues (like Nigel Dawes).
Didn't Ortio play well in the Euro leagues before he came back this last time?
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Goaltending in both locations. Really. What was the GAA for the fram team? NHL? Neither Ortio or Poulin were able to get the job done well in the AHL. Poulin and Gillies were the best of the bunch there.
I don't think you can pin goals against on either NHL defense or AHL defense. At even strength, goaltending at both levels was not great. I don't think that's on defense.
Even if you argue that defense played a part in goals against, the farm is fine. Defense prospects just starting pro careers are going to take time to become all around great players. Look at Kylington. The guy is 18 and already an awesome skater with good offense. He didn't look horrible in NHL action. With his skills, he could easily become another Brodie or better. Andersson already is a good shut down guy at the junior level,
The NHL club has the worst goal against for a reason. Goaltending. PK was bad, but again goaltending.
That's all on team defense in my point of view. When you're even strength goals against is bad there's a reason, the team isn't defending as a team. I believe it is both the goaltending and team defense.
It is not one or the other, it is both.
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.Ortio is too inexperienced and unproven to be considered a 1A or starter. Ramo is going to be too expensive to be slotted as 1B or backup.
Guys (potentially available) I like better then Ramo as the 1A or starter (in approximate order):
Andersen, Bishop, Neuvirth, Allen, Fleury, Varlamov, Elliott, Mason, Schneider, Murray, Raanta, Reimer, Bernier, Halak, Enroth, Darling, Smith, Kuemper, Anderson
Guys (potentially available) I like better then Ortio as the 1B or backup (in approximate order):
Murray, Neuvirth, Raanta, Allen, Kuemper, Enroth
Why is Ortio too expensive?
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Reimer is someone who again I'd feel comfortable taking a risk on...if he was the only risk.
That;'s the problem. Any of Ortio, Reimer or or Raanta could well develop into starters. But the reason we're not in the playoffs this year is goaltending. an we risk missing the playoffs again by taking a risk on two guys if neither works out?
If both do fantastic, if one does we're fine. But if neither does? ouch.
Its frustrating. During the Iggy/Kipper years we had the best RW in the league, and one of the most game-stealing goalies.
What are the two things we need right now to have a team that could go deep into the playoffs?
We need a RW yes, but I think you're getting too caught up on that RW needing to be as good as Iggy. Gaudreau is in that place. What really hurt the team was not finding a center for Iginla, not a LW.
What we really need is a goalie, a winger for Bennett and to shore up the bottom6.
I am more than okay with pairs than trios.
Look at the Canucks with Bertuzzi, Morrison and Naslund. They were a great line sure, but they lacked depth to go the distance.
We need to shore up all lines.
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What would scare me about Reimer are the concussions he's had. We are terrible at protecting our goalies and I think he'd become an injury laden player here.
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It seems like Peter Budaj is too good to be in the A. Just saying.
Is he the answer? Pretty much of course not. But can he help us gap a season to a better ufa list next year and opening cap space?
Before you hack it to bits, it's a thought, not a solution. A cheap alternative.
I was thinking about that too. He has been decent in the NHL.
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That is one scary contract. $6m for another 6 years.
I don't think the contract is as scary as the fact he is about 30 and when the contract ends, he will be 36. In all likelihood, we only get him for 5 or 6 years and is it worth it to sell the farm, our 1st this year plus a high prospect and maybe more?
If it was Sam Bennett, we trade his whole career for a 5 year goaltender...
Schneider is about all they have, their GM has some serious work to rebuild that roster. I was hoping BT could pawn some of our unwanted players there, even for picks.
I don't put anything past Lou or the fact that they are in TOR which has never really tolerated rebuilding. Those fans want instant gratification every year. Can you see Stamkos signing there unless they show some early signs of truly wanting to compete ? Lou may not use that 1st pick but they will be out there in the market for a top goalie.
I don't agree that Toronto is impatient in a rebuild. They're the most loyal fans in the NHL when it comes to supporting a losing team.
I think Burke went about it wrong thinking that's what the fans wanted but missed his mark and set the time frame back about ten years. Competitive just enough to just miss the playoffs.
They need to rebuild right. That team has no reason to have sucked for 50 years.
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It sounded like other posters were afraid of losing this year's pick. Maybe they're afraid next year's 1st will be a top 5 again?This is correct.
You cannot negotiate with a player that is not your own until signing period opens up so the Flames can't even talk to Anderson until after the draft. If the Flames wanted to offer sheet anyone it would be 2017 picks, not any 2016 picks, that would be part of the compensation.
I agree with you though, better goaltending will get us higher in the standings, closer to the playoffs. They showed glimpses of good team play this year of being close but didn't sustain it, which is where I get caught up in the conversation of how close we really are.
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Lack had a bad year, so I don't know if that was an anomaly or if the 2014/15 season was. Hey, if we traded for him, we could show pictures of Eddie Lack's and Sam Bennett's dads in the stands.
Can you show them anyway? Is there something I missed?
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Wouldn't it be next year's 1st if you offer sheet because it will be after the draft?
I am not saying offer sheet anyone. I don't think we are in a position to because of the salary structure this team is up against this off-season.
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The reality of goaltenders is you just don't know what you have until they gain the NHL experience. Carey Price was almost given up on in Montreal now he is deemed the best in the NHL.
I don't think he was almost given up on in Montreal. They remained loyal to him as a young goalie and didn't want to trade him, hence trading Halak instead. I think it was the fans that gave up on him because of Halak's miracle run that one year. But they traded him instead. I think they knew Price was too young and still developing. Too good for the AHL but not ready for the responsibility as an NHL starter.
I loved how he was so passionate about losses and cried after some of them. He's a gamer. Emotions get the best of us who are passionate.
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For me, I am glad (not glad) that the goaltending hasn't masked a lot of the issues this team has. I don't want to be Montreal where you get in with the best goalie and then nose dive when he isn't there.
I don't agree, and we can agree to disagree, that there doesn't need to be a ton of improvement as optics in my eye look different when I see the product on the ice and think we need massive improvement. Part of that is being young and another part is not having the roster completed to BT's vision.
Albeit, I wonder if a lot of those stats may have changed for the better when the games meant less when we were out of it and playing backups?
When games mattered this team didn't looked quite fragile and when the playoffs became impossible, the team changed, like a weight was lifted off their shoulders.
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Cross, I think in game situations are different. You can spout out all the numbers you want, but when you're giving up the opportunities this team does, it's going to end up in the back of the net more times than not.
We still have to account for how many brain farts that happen in a game leaving guys wide open back door, etc...
Like Mac says, I am not, as others aren't too, advocating against getting a goalie, I am merely stating this team has a lot of work to do away from the puck to change. It's also a matter of when these things happen.
I am not looking at stats like you to justify things, but in the eye, it's what I see.
Game situations are different and it depends on who gets the chances.
If we give up one less chance but are giving up the other chances to their bests, it's likely going to be in the back of the net.
I do agree though, on the defensive end, we need to stop giving up chances,
As a team, goalies included, there needs to be change and better defensive play.
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What about treating them like a non-playoff team and allow them to draft 15th and 16th, if there's controversy?
Goaltending
in Flames Talk
Posted
I think this makes more sense than using our pick to get a goalie.