robrob74
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Posts posted by robrob74
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7 hours ago, conundrumed said:
The mishandling is mind-boggling. Apparently, the team medical staff is helpless to doing full assessments on players. The player has to point out that he can barely walk or tie his skates, because no one can see it. So you give up a 1st rder to lose a guy that somehow (ineptitude) isn't on LTIR.
So your 30g, 40a center is now someone else's problem. Until he gets back to normal and puts up 26g/33a in his first healthy season in years. Then he's not a problem anymore.
Us: We can't do anything if he doesn't tell us.
Him: I could barely tie my skates. I had a hard time getting upright again after taking a faceoff.
Us: If only he had told us.
Words just can't describe that level of incompetence. Add the expectation that we're supposed to believe the incompetent pulling out the, "we didn't know" card. A typical card that incompetence likes to play. "My eyes were broken during that timeline". lol
What's the ol' saying, "we don't see things as they are, we see things as we are".
we could see it on TV. We could see it from our chair, and then you hear Johnny tell us all of that stuff...so it's probably more about that than him in general.
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3 hours ago, cross16 said:
I think the practice of sticking a mic into a players face the day after their season ends and expecting an insightful answer has to be the dumbest practice out there. I feel for the players who probably haven't even come to terms of what they need to do but yet we hang on every single word they said, not to mention you still have many reporters in Calgary still trying to work this angle of players maybe not wanting to be here.
I'll preface this by saying that I really like Yegor but the Flames have to be VERY careful with that extension. Yes I understand opportunity and all that, but this is a soon to be 26 year old player coming off a career year. Prioritizing that and giving them what they want falls flat far more often than it succeeds. Now i'm not saying that that they shouldn't sign him or that he isn't worth it but they should not be treating him like he is a core piece and just giving him whatever he wants to keep him here. It has to make sense because in the grand scheme of things Yegor is not the type of piece you should really be building around, he should be a great secondary piece. Flames need to keep that in mind.
To your point and hear me out; he's scored some goals. Grant that... i am sure Conroy is looking at it like, what else does he do? Is he killing penalties at a good clip? Is he scoring 5v5 vs just the pp?
im with you, is this the player?
How close does he resemble kuzmenko? Is kuz's contract the one to base the contract on?
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4 hours ago, phoenix66 said:
So the season of overreacting to players exit comments has now begun.. first one to the podium is Yegor .
When asked he sees himself here long term ..was pretty non committal..
Personally I take that as he's young, just had a break out season and wants to be paid ..if that's all it is I don't have much concern that will be done .in fact it should be a priority ..
Playing devil's advocate..maybe he doesn't see himself here .. west coast, big market..all the usual.. how long do we give Conny to translate that into the sign or you're being traded ultimatum? I think it's important not to have distractions next seasons like we did this year ..players like yegor and mangiapane need to be dealt with before the season starts .
Again personally I think he will be Priority signing for Conny ..but if has to be traded then he's a player you should be able to get a haul for
did Mangiapane say something? -
4 minutes ago, conundrumed said:
55% at the dot. When we needed a PP F/O win, it was him. The Jets hottest line rn is Ehlers-Mony-Toffoli. Just sayin'.
It's funny him and Scheifele are on the same team. In the O, I thought Mony was quite comparable to Scheifele.
possible the fact he and Johnny being somewhat a defensive liability together played a part of my bias... And they decided not to try Tkachuk with them as he was doing ok with Backlund. Benny was a mess.
I'm not saying he was terrible at everything.
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2 minutes ago, conundrumed said:
What does this even look like? So you get rid of useful things for picks. Great. Now there's a cap floor. So are you paying the Stecher's $5mil per?
So now you need roster players. Are you going to throw your prospects in way over their heads and pound the confidence right out of them?
I don't understand bare bones, with regard to meeting the cap floor and maintaining any form of positive work environment.
It all sounds good in theory, but it requires a lot of foresight into the hurdles that you're also creating.
So now. I'm the owner. This is hardly the only business in my portfolio. You're going to come to me with a proposition. "I want to drive the value of this business right into the ground. But within about 5 years, we can double the value that it's at now".
Okay. I have a risk assessment team that I pay to deal with this for all of my businesses. You go talk to them. They will advise me on what they think of this proposal.
God help you if you're not prepared to deal with a boardroom filled with accountants and lawyers. Because there is a 99% chance that you are about to get yourself fired. And it will just be in a cold email filled with cold legalese mixed with accounting principles.
This is a business that operates on business principles, not flights of fancy. The bottom line is all that matters.
the thing about cup winners is, Crosby, McKinnon, Toews and Kane, Ovechkin and his linemates, Etc, there's an expectation that goes with their elite personality.... I liken it to Yzerman, Sakic, Lemieux, Messier... there's excellence. How many teams don't have that yet still win?
once in awhile you get the blues. Sometimes you can get elite deeper in the draft... most of the time it's early, and sometimes it depends on the draft, which is why we are a year late to the retool, again...
All good to have the mindset but there needs to be some elitist players coming in. Johnny has elite edges and vision. Tkachuk elite hockey sense. But they're not the full package...
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1 hour ago, conundrumed said:
Dude??
i didn't get the memo. lol.
To me he was just a shot. I didn't get the love fans had for him. He didn't seem as special as some made him out to be.
also because he played injured so much i feel Bennett could have jumped up and we would have had to play him, and I felt Benny with Johnny would get a few goals.
Monny wasn't the player to build around in my eyes and we were stuck with him. Solid #2 and low #1... I also felt we rushed him.
i get it, 21 as a rookie. Maybe the year after he gets 30 as a rookie but developed a defensive game and worked on his stride
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1 hour ago, cberg said:
Agree the Flames did not go full tank this year, actually just the opposite. The changes were player’s decisions to move on, economics.
im not frustrated with the league process, I want the Flames to get a 1st overall as much as some of us, but realistic they need to tear to extreme bare bones, and ownership will do it when it's a must, yet avoid until the writing on the wall is barely noticeable. -
46 minutes ago, conundrumed said:
Imagine being a 60yr old hardcore Leafs fan. You raised your kids to be Leafs fans, you bought your grandchildren no end of baby Leafs gear. You've prepared generations of your flesh and blood for a lifetime of failure. lol
the audacity.-
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6 hours ago, cberg said:
OK, thanks. I believe that would definitely discourage tanking, just not sure it provides any ability to improve terrible teams. The problem is, management and development, and being good at projecting growth are often more important in the long run than draft position. I've advocated a fixed draft schedule, but that has issues too.
A tricky one yup. At least I'd get to see Calgary draft 1st overall once in my lifetime maybe. I'm pushing 50 so it's possible I might not even get to with your suggestion, if it took 10-30 years to get there lol.
What might be more interesting to adapt your idea would be, if a team gets 1st overall one year, they can only draft as high as 4th or 5th overall the next 5 drafts? I dunno what a magic number is. Say a team drafts first overall one year, but they're in the #2 or #4 Spot, they automatically get pushed to 5... or 4 depending on the rule.
im ok with keeping it as is.
id prefer a true lottery, but give the worst teams more balls in the bin to increase odds that way...
Coming out of the machine:
Ball 1 SJS - 1st overall
Ball 2 SJS - where their pick lands in the second round
ball 3 Flames - their 1st round pick
ball 4 SJS - where their third rounder lands
ball 5 CBJ they get put onto the 1st round section.... its their spot
and so on,
the Flames would get 9 Balls, San Jose gets 16...
a team just out that just misses the playoffs get 1. The next would get 2, then 3 and so on... They'd still have a chance at winning it all, but that last team out only get one ball's chance.
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Dallas in 7
Avs in 6
Canucks in 6
Oilers in 7
Hate the Oil, but LA still isn't deep enough in Net and if the goalie can pull it out. They've been so inconsistent as a team.
I think the Canucks added the right kind of depth in the summer, what the Flames needed to do.Avs, not a believer in Jets. Don't like Toffoli or Monahan.
Dallas is deep. Depends on VGK stars coming back healthy enough. -
- Florida Bennett's in 7
- Toronto in 5 or 6 (they gotta shut it out early or they choke in game 7)
- Rangers in 5
- Canes in 5
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When my dad was alive, he was hardcore Leafs. So when they Purged the Flames of players and turned to instant playoff contender status, I cheered them. As much as I hated the deal, that's on the Flames and not the Leafs... so the ex Flames I still liked and cheered for, like I did with Niewy...
Roberts, etc.
I guess I'd still not mind if they went a few rounds or all the way, just be like, here's to you Pop!
I used to be everyone but Canucks or Oilers. Now I don't seem to care. Although, I hate their fans mostly. So it's more so they don't get to gloat and rub it in my face. I was the only game 7 Flames fan in '94 in a room full of 'Nucks fans... yuck. I felt like the way Steve Bartman looked sitting in the stands after interfering with the pop foul ball... only, the Flames didn't have an extra inning to make up for it.
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So, they're moving to Utah and then expanding back into Arizona or Phoenix?
why not move the team back? I guess they need to settle the players in. Not fair to them.
I find it weird the Winnipeg team is called the Jets when we all know they're the Arizona team.
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I just did a draft lottery simulator. About 70% of the time we moved to 10 or 11 draft spot. Once in the whole time we got 1st...
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Just now, jjgallow said:
yeah that's fair, it's just a salary question. he was the "unless we want to start eating salaries" bit for me.
he good.
ya, I think he's priced ok...and if he was on the market could fetch a bit.... but I like him.
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10 minutes ago, travel_dude said:
Let's not confuse Coronato with Zary.
Coronato had 2 years at Harvard, playing against men.
Zary had two healthy season in the AHL.
They are one year apart in age.
Saying that, the reality is we have too many wingers and not enogh C/W.
Coronato at least looked good in his last 5.
Zary can play C, but should he?
Pelletier couldn't even hold the spot here.
If we got rid of Mangiapane, we would likely have a better balance:Zary-Kadri-Kuzmenko
Huberdeau-Sharky-Pospisil
Coleman-Backlund-Coronato
I struggled with the idea of Coronato with Uberdeau, since they stuggle defensively.
You want Coronato to learn to generate from your own zone on the rush?
Play him with Backlund.
Heck, put him on LW.
He not going to learn hockey in the AHL playing with our lesser forwards.
then we don't have enough depth in the A. If he's doing Bennett things then he's not NHL. Bennett needed the A to get his timing right. We probably play Coronato for a few years then trade him like Benny.theyre sending a few to the A for a playoff run. He'll have guys to play with then.
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36 minutes ago, travel_dude said:
It's difficult for him to play one game with Kadri then the next bunch with Rooney.
He's rushing plays becuase he only gets 10 minutes max.
There is no incentive for them to start him in the AHL next year.
He will be ready.
should be in the A -
1 hour ago, jjgallow said:
Mr. Andersson is sort of our last big play. Outside of things like Coronato, Honzek, Wolf. I'm not too excited about trading Wolf. But I would trade Coronato or Honzek, for future equivalent picks or better. Or as part of a package for a top, top D prospect.
Of the vets we have, yeah it's kind of Andersson and that's it, unless we want to get into eating salary.
sounds like you're downplaying Weegar a bit. Maybe he's not worth his deal? What would he get on the open market? -
3 hours ago, sak22 said:
I find the way we forget 10 years ago funny. The year after the Iginla, Bouwmeester trades and Kipper retirement the big offseason moves were Corban Knight, TJ Galiardi, Kris Russell and Joe Colborne, that doesn't scream quick turnaround to me. They weren't fooling anyone back then with following Kipper with Joey Macdonald, Karri Ramo and Reto Berra and running with Matt Stajan as the first line center after he was 4th a few years earlier. Go back in time no body saw a quick turnaround, sure management said they were committed to one but I find Kevin Lowe's speech at around the 1:45 mark of this video to explain who the team is talking to when it refuses to say the word rebuild.
They could care less that non paying fans are pissed, they worry about the ones paying over $10,000 a seat because they've been done that road when those guys don't want to support the team. I have some of the cheapest seats in the building, don't think they would bat an eye if I threatened to leave, 10 years ago my boss at the time was furious they were moving on from Iginla and co. he paid $40,000 a season, left an angry email and got a call from Ken King the next day, one thing you might not know about Calgary which ownership definitely does is that it is a bandwagon city, we are full of transplants who jump on when things are good and then pull out their original favorite team when things are bad. The team will never say they want to be bad, doesn't mean they never will be that way, they are always concerned with keeping their rich supporters on board.
I don't think it's forgotten at all! I think we could be scarred by it lol, as some of us worry they'd fall into that again. I also wonder about the improvement of scouting. Conroy definitely has a philosophy, a slight shift in His approach. But I think there's improvement. Back then, it was by necessity and Sutter trades that got them there.
I don't know how many of us expected it to go the same as it did at that time period.
but you're definitely right, there is a place a team gets to before improvement. Sometimes it's signing a glimmer of hope in 2nd chance players with previous upside. Chances at college kids, or best goalies out of the NHL. Or guys with good KHL numbers yet to translate. That was a rough time.
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There is no way the NHL will ever go to an unweighted lotto. While we think tanking is a horrible way to go, there are going to be some poorly run clubs and teams that need to benefit the system.
Calgary will never be a team that does that. Are they penalized for it? No. Because that is their choice. They choose to operate that way in hopes to gain extra revenue for a round of hockey or catch lightening in a bottle and then lose to them due to poor video on the goal that was in. That's just the way the Flames operate.
we complain because the system doesn't work for us. Fact is, teams that are horrible need to get more draft picks to possibly draft better nhl players. It's how to build. More picks equate to younger players.
i like what Conundrum said, what do you do when players decide not to play for your club? Calgary has never had that problem. Not a problem of them signing players at market value in UFA.
Calgary needs to do a full gut of the team and start from scratch. With your proposed system you assume teams need to keep the studs and rebuild. Our studs left. There aren't any anymore.
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6 hours ago, The_People1 said:
Staying the course is not horrible if you keep everyone, miss the playoffs barely, and then luck into a top 3 pick. The bounce back would be quick and swift because the pick would be one of the best prospects of that year.
The main reason teams "tank" is to get to the bottom to draft those guys. With an unweighted lottery, there's no more ugly stuff like that. Teams build to win every moment of the season.
An unweighted lottery is not just a simple change. It would be NHL altering and change every team's rebuild strategy because the old tricks to sink to the bottom won't work anymore.
you are being hypocritical. Staying the course with Iginla, Kipper and Bouw, you'd even said it yourself changes needed to happen earlier. -
1 hour ago, sak22 said:
I don’t think retention has that much pull, also don’t believe a goalie with average stats is going to generate the offers people believe.
I don't think people see him as average. Sure his numbers are dropping, but that's also after only having 2 top4 D on the roster and one that is only in his second year or possibly being a top4 in Kylington. I wonder if Kylington is a top4 or a #5?
I think he's lost the will to play in Calgary. But I don't know, just know the play has dropped after the team got further out of contention... could be other factors, but I think he's better than average... he's even better than good.
that also depends on philosophy, as I think he's a product of a crap team in front of him, and its relative.
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8 minutes ago, The_People1 said:
Trading off all players to get as many picks as possible is exactly losing inorganically. Flames didn't do this exactly. We traded for Kuzmenko and stuff. Trying to still win while replenishing the cupboards with picks and prospects.
Other teams haven't been this honest.
ok. So trading Iginla when they should have traded him 3 years earlier is inorganic? Maybe teams shouldn't be allowed to trade anyone and only draft players organically? I don't see the difference. A team's player ages out, that's organic. A player starts to age but has value and your team is getting worse year by year, trade them and that's organic. Trade players away when there's no hope for a cup, that is organic...staying the course is horrible, and you know it. That is what the flames would have to do in order to be your version of organic.
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6 hours ago, The_People1 said:
You assume they got to the bottom organically and tried to win every game to the end.
no, I don't assume anything like that at all. I'm all for the Flames getting a top pick. I'd hate if they were in last place and not get it because some team in 8th overall spot got it because their star is injured.
Everyone does get to the bottom organically, there's a reason and it's because they are trading off all players to get as many picks as possible. Getting more picks helps to get more young players and hope they develop.
Not dissimilar to the way the flames traded Lindholm, Tanev, Zadorov, Toffoli, and so on, and how they might do so next year as well. Some call it a retool, some a rebuild. We would love to trade more and get more picks.
Western Conference Playoffs
in Flames Talk
Posted
i don't believe in you're a playoff team with experience. Experience can matter, but i think some players are born for the playoffs and some just aren't. Like the Leafs have a ton of experience but never go deeper. Granted they're playing teams that make the finals sometimes, but...