robrob74
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Posts posted by robrob74
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22 minutes ago, travel_dude said:
I look at performance from one playoff to the next, not just regular season.
The coach made the comment about trying to reduce Gio's ice.
Less PP time has made a difference.
But he's still averaging the most time of any D.
We used to chalk up Brodie's performance to Gio, but it may not be that simple.
Gio may just need a certain kind of player to be tops.
Or he could be sliding.
He's 37.
I think it is a bit of everything. He’s 37, some guys can play awhile and I am sure he can go until he’s 40. Does that make him a top pair the whole time? Maybe he goes to 2nd pair and then 3rd to end the year.
will he want to keep playing? And will he retire a Flames? I wonder if leadership can change if the main leader stays? Is leadership like the animal kingdom of the lions or apes? Can we transfer leadership without having to oust the old leader?
I just watched a BBC Earth show where the chimpanzee leader was attacked by all the guys who wanted to change leadership. He took a few days to recover and came back and made himself look the part and fooled them enough to retain leadership, and thus, getting to be the lady’s man for a little longer.
not that that’s Gio, but, can players really feel like they can fully follow new leaders if the old are still there?
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2 minutes ago, stubblejumper1 said:
I have always thought that Bennett needed to earn his opportunities. He hasn't been able to put it together offensively and he takes too many bad penalties...so he hasn't gotten time on the #1/2 lines or on the powerplay.
However, 7 games into the season I am starting to change my mind. Lucic takes bad penalties and doesn't score much, yet he is a fixture on the second powerplay unit. Lucic is Bennett without the speed, but he has a wwwaaaaayyyyy lllloonnnngggeerrrrr leash. I don't blame Bennett for asking for a trade. He will never succeed in Calgary (he may succeed elsewhere, but there is zero chance it will work with the Flames).
Unlike Cross, I am a little upset about the situation. Bennett is one of a handful of Flames forwards with has some size and grit (Tkachuk, Lucic and maybe Leivo would be the others). Without Bennett this team will be even easier to play against. The Flames will be negotiating from a place of weakness, so they aren't going to get much back in a trade.
and I think it’s just time to part ways. Been calling for it the last few years. If they’re not going to put him with anyone, trade him. Backlund isn’t playing up to snuff, so no doubt Bennett won’t either... -
45 minutes ago, cross16 said:
Honestly the result of Bennett wanting out doesn’t even make me upset. What makes me upset is it was so crystal clear this wasn’t going to work midway through Peters first season and rather than do something about it they just sat on it. Maybe I’m wrong and he was worth nothing in trade but I find that hard to believe.
the whole Sam Bennett experience is one this organization better learn from. A really big failure in multiple ways. It’s not all their fault but it’s a real black mark.
I wanted to like this, but apparently I’ve liked too many things today.
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2 hours ago, cross16 said:
they lost Byron (which is not at all a big deal and people should let it go) because they couldn’t decide on goalies and instead chose to carry 3 rather than risk losing Ortio on waivers.
Byron, Ryan... I see them as similar players. Losing Byron only hurt in probably the first season in Montreal, after that he’s been an afterthought. He might be decent depth in the bottom 6, and you’d hope cheap.
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3 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:
What if Toffoli didn’t want to come here? All the GM can do is make his best pitch, can’t force a player to play here. I have no doubts they inquired on him though.
Probably wasn’t worth surrendering a top 60 pick just to move Ryan
I mean, this GM isn’t shy about spending cap and picks for needless reasons, cough cough, Gus and Forbs! Cough cough. If that was what it took to sign a scoring top 6 winger he should be on it. It’s basically a similar trade we’ve done it the past, but we’d have a top 6 winger for longer than we’d have Ryan and possible that 3rd rounder...but we are stuck with a boatload of contracts in the bottom 6.
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1 hour ago, travel_dude said:
I only ask because I see struggles elsewhere.
Would Hanifin-Ras and Gio-Tanev solve some of the issues without negatively affecting the top 4 overall?
Hanifin-Ras was good in the playoffs.
Maybe it's even more drastic.
Hanifin-Ras
Valimaki-Tanev
Gio-Nesterov
The ice time is balanced a bit by special teams.
Gio and Tanev more on the PK.
Ras and Hanifin more on the PP.
I know it sounds wrong, but I think we have one good pairing and are losing out on the other pairs with mismatched players.
Valimaki needs a steady partner that doesn't make poor decisions.
Ras needs a better skating partner.
Gio needs less icetime.
I found it funny that Ward has trouble limiting Gio's ice.
He always wants to be out there.
That's a problem.
I will admit that Hanifin has looked better. I hope just by me saying that it doesn’t change.
I am starting to see the Lucic treatment with Gio. Gio gets some preferential treatment out of respect. The reality is, we’ve gotta start planning for a succession, and moving guys up the lineup.
are we in a spot to win, or can we retain and send him to a contender next year? Just a question, I like Gio, but I don’t know if we will have a chance to win with him.
a lot of these suggestions you’ve made make sense.
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2 hours ago, pikey7883 said:
This is disappointing to hear for sure. You can count me in as a huge fan of Bennett, I had high hopes for him and still do, if he gets his chance in a top 6 role with quality people around him and given the chance to make mistakes without being demoted, he’s going to do something special.
I also don’t blame him for asking. Like others have said after his strong playoffs and showing he can Center a quality line, to have coaching staff just say no to him again has to hurt.
I wish the flames weren’t so stupid sometimes, and starting now, put him as Center between tkachuk and lindholm. Put Dube with Johnny and money, and put backs with Mang and Simon. Then have lucic Ryan and Leivo or Nordstrom.This way you see what Bennett is or isn’t, and it’s a win win for the club if he shows up and performs, great. If he still wants to be traded you can showcase him as a top 6 Center that is playoff proven. If he fails, you can trade him for what he is, not much different than where we’re at right now.
I don’t know if it was always just me, but in all of the small doses of C for him throughout his career, I’ve seen him play more naturally there, even if results weren’t there. I think a lot judge on immediate results which is why you have a period, maybe two periods or a game or two playing the position. But it’s too small a sample to figure it out as a line and at the position. While I know the results weren’t there... I just think he’s only once had quality wingers to play with him. I think that’s why he tends to go puck hog, we saw what he can do with wingers of similar pedigree.
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3 hours ago, travel_dude said:
It's funny that we are back here.
This was from the summer and now Bennett is back to wing.
By contrast. the coach seemed to be determined to have Lindholm, Monahan and Backlund as the top 3 C's.
I'm not 100% convinced we have the right mix.
5v5 scoring is not good.
Only a few games for Dube, but it seems like he is playing in a tough situation.
Did Bennett show up out of shape and didn't look good as a C?
Or was the coach determined to have Backlund as the 3C?
Bennett with Backlund hasn't looked dangerous.
Bennett looks a little lost.
Barely 500 hockey for us.
Not sure what the problem is.
“Like”I wish mods got likes cuz they should, and I wouldn’t have to quote the whole thing you wrote...
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On 1/29/2021 at 7:59 PM, rickross said:
This thread will evolve daily based on the action or inactions of this team. It’s been a pretty fluid convo so far, it’s clear fans are getting fed up with this team. Yes there’s an emphasis on what this team isn’t doing right at the moment but that’s when you get when your team is losing more than it’s winning. This franchise set a standard 30 years ago and they’ve been hard pressed to reach that precedent. This current team is difficult to peg...there’s a lot of great talent on it yet there’s something amiss. Whether it’s emotion , an identity or just basic execution , there’s something critical the Flames have been lacking. I don’t think anyone here is looking forward to another rebuild
I am, but not if they’re going to fast track it and end up with a half Hash Rate team again.-
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2 hours ago, travel_dude said:
Almost every team has the equaivalent of Lucic on it.
Most teams can get some cap relief for placing them on the taxi squad.
The issue for us is coming years.
This year, we would have to get rid of Lucic or Ryan+ just to sign Toffoli for a comp salary as he signed in MTL.
Next year is the bigger problem with Dube and Valimaki coming off ELC's and Bennett's next deal.
Year 3 is Mangiapane, Tkachuk, Gaudreau, Gio replacement.
Short term it could have been done.
Long term, we would have to have chosen between Tanev and Toffoli or Markstrom and Toffoli.
Even with that, we have challenges with Tkachuk's nest deal.
It starts at $9m just to meet the RFA qualifying offer
I still don’t think it makes it right!
how many here said they liked the Neal deal, or the Brouwer? There’s just a few of these he’s signed, like Mason Raymond who luckily his buyout didn’t hurt.
to say because it’s normal doesn’t make me feel better that they do it and it’s nearly every other UFA year signing.
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7 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:
You seem to assume that there was no attempt at all to sign Toffoli, no one outside the front office will know for sure what efforts were made to sign a lot of players (Toffoli, Hall, J.Anderson, etc) or why they chose elsewhere.. At 4.25M there would have been alot of people lamenting that decision and for sure not had the room for Tanev or Markstrom as its not guaranteed a contract like Ryans could be offloaded.
Hindsight is always 20/20 and you never sign all of your targets. Theres alot of that contract yet to prove its worth.
You'll have to remind me what O'Neil signing you're talking about.
I think it’s probably the Neal signing, which the Lucic contract is killing us.
I agree with him about the signings. Some cap are still strapping us down. Neal, Brouwer and Stone. Before jt was also MayRay. But Brouwer and Stone make up for 2.666 on the cap, plus you have Lucic at 5+ on the 4th, Ryan 3+ on the 4th. That’s around 7 or 8million in dead cap.
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1 hour ago, pikey7883 said:
I made a big rant on the “who are the flames” and you summarized my point a lot better. I think that Ward had the ability to be a good coach and has good systems; Which is what makes him a great assistant coach. He lacks the in game ability to see a problem and make a change. I believe that he also lacks the strong presence to get in a players face and make a hard decision when it needs to be made.
the problem with the second one, is I also don’t think we have a strong leadership group that can fill that void, which is why we need a coach who can grab this team by the bootstraps and get them ready to go to war. Ward isn’t that guy.
maybe we have had a few coaches lately who would make really good assistants. The last three haven’t done a lot of changes while coaching. Mind you, both Peters and Ward shuffle the lines a lot. But I don’t know if they ever changed strategies. A blender is fine as it can change energy if a team is down, or not moving their feet, but if the other team is defending the system they installed then we are ducked regardless of changing guys around.
like in Montreal game, where in the system are guys going to the hard areas? Everyone plays to the outside and makes it really easy on the other goalie. We have possession but we don’t have very good chances and nothing gets into the middle. And the breakouts suck and guys are trying to do their own things.
if the players only meeting was, let’s pay more attention to detail, maybe that is one part of it. For me, the other part is playing the 4th when trying to catch up with 6 min to play, or continuously playing Lucic in favour of guys who are getting things done or at least playing in a way that might. Plus having him on PP2....
also, I can believe they’ve not gone back to Lindholm on the left side on the PP yet. That was a lethal play on that goal he had it looked like an OV or Laine kind of PP set up. Maybe that is Johnny not wanting to go there and possibly continuing to T Monny up in the slot for a one-timer. But surely, Lindholm can pass from that spot...
if it’s because Johnny doesn’t like it then it’s a bit selfish.
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I am kind of on the fence about identity these days. I’d like a team that cares about one another, that plays for each other. Hitting? I like hitting and we aren’t a hitting team, we will hit, but not punish guys. I think it’s more a mirage to say we aren’t small pushovers.
Skilled, good skill but apparently easy to stop. I would like game breakers, but the team seems outcoached and has a lack of using the skill we do have properly.
it is tough! I’d really just like a team show up most nights for 60...
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15 minutes ago, sak22 said:
Start following a new team, your reaction will be the same that I guarantee. And I know plenty of Oiler fans who would point out McDavid's defensive game as a weakness that is part of the problem on that team. But when you play sports at the elite level against elite competition, you get stretches. But we are definitely seeing things differently. This is all due to them being lazy, poor execution is only a result of laziness gotcha. If they only work harder the shots and passes that just miss will suddenly hit.
but how do you account for the lack of skating, starting games halfway through the 2nd or playing the first period and then laying back in the 2nd and 3rd. You’re telling me I don’t know what effort looks like, or when players aren’t putting it in?
the Canadiens played a good game last night, but at the same time the flames didn’t make it harder on them. It was really a 4-0 game. The flames skated a bit in the 1st but after that, it was ridiculous.
I understand the idea that games will have momentum switches. It’s about the reactions to them, but there’s a difference in that and actual laziness or lack of moving the feet. I am ok with a team pouring it on against us, It is bound to happen, but I can tell the difference when it’s due to that or when it is due to lack of skating and therefore no execution.
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16 minutes ago, jjgallow said:
I think we should ease up on the players.
These problems have been ongoing here since before many of these players were even with the Flames. Before they were pro athletes.
A partial rebuild gives you a partial team.
Short term decisions give you short term results.
Remember when we kicked Gilmour out of here for his "bad attitude"? How did that turn out. Not that we shouldn't make trades, but, let's not be fooled into thinking trades will solve an attitude problem. They're for something else.
Yeah there's a lack of passion. The question is why. I don't think it's the true nature of the players.
actually, Gilmour was out due to Risebrough and him fighting it out in arbitration. Gilmore asks for something like 750k and riser a lot lower. They awarded Gilmour something in the late 675k or something around there, so Riser lost and felt like a loser.
on a road trip they were in their rooms. Gilmours room was next to Risers. He could hear Riser on the phone saying, “I am gonna trade Gilmour.” And Dougie knew he was getting dealt so he told Rise that he wanted to play for team Canada. Rise dealt him after that.
apparently Dougie told the teammates he was planning on leaving as he overheard Rise was going to trade him anyway. He was already going to be dealt so he put pressure on Rise to trade him.
Some are saying it’s across the NHL that this kind of behaviour and play is normal. I think I am being duped and it sounds like it wouldn’t matter what team I would like, I would feel the same way watching other teams. It’s horrible considering how much these guys make...
we are idiots for watching and cheering on this attitude.
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10 minutes ago, sak22 said:
I don't believe that it is solely this group. I think it is pretty standard across the league that most teams go through rough stretches every year. The difference is the great teams keep them shorter and less frequent, this team and core have also had stretches over the years where they do play well. I get that they aren't giving any reason that this year is different from any other, I get we are tired of hearing what they say, but what they say is no different from any other team really, I mean we'd all take Connor McDavid in a heartbeat, but I haven't heard or see anything different from him during losing streaks or failed seasons than anyone on the Flames.
I know my optimism may sound annoying at a time like this, but if we turn around and win the next 5 I will probably downplay it a bit. The measuring stick for this group remains what it does to make the playoffs and making noise there. For better or worse this is the group or players and coaches we will see this year, lets see how the remaining 50 go.
ya, I think it probably means that I should just stop watching because if that’s how it is across the board, it just means the NHL is a horrible product. I just don’t think it should be normalized for guys who are making millions to take time off as often as they do. I just don’t agree with this thinking. Just because it is normal across the league doesn’t mean it should be normal for our team.
one thing that is different with McD is that he actually plays hard almost every game. He brings it. His problem is he is on the Oilers.
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57 minutes ago, cross16 said:
This is fair but at the same time it's a 56 game season and they are in game 6 and the top 4 teams make it. It's the equivalent of game 8-9 in a full game season.
for sure get it addressed, i'm just not sure it's cause for concern at this point. For me anyway, I know others are different.
the cause for concern is that it’s happening every year. It’s a pattern that seems to follow this core group. If it didn’t happen as often as it does I would say it isn’t cause for concern. For sure every year SHOULD be judged differently as it is a new season, but these are habits that continue to persist. They’ve already gone through all the media talk saying this year will be different and how important the playoffs are. Sure the judging is playoffs, but these patterns might be fixed by then, but more often than not teams don’t just change from the regular season to the playoffs. It’s not usually just a switch you turn on or off. -
23 minutes ago, cross16 said:
This is exactly what you would want to see them do
even when Rasmus isn’t playing the best that he can play, he always looks like he’s trying. I don’t know if it is his style, but he is always moving the puck.
I think he could be in line for a letter, if he doesn’t have one yet. He’s growing into one of my favourites because he brings it most nights.
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1 hour ago, travel_dude said:
I'm afraid that the txi squad is nothing more than place to store extras, not viable alternatives for the coach to use.
Buddy is a marginal NHL player, but I don't mind having one body like that there.
Kylington and Mackey - what is the point? They won't get enough time to show they can do the job.
Rinaldo - no freakin comment.
Stone - okay, I won't get upset that we are payng the guy not to be on the team and paying him a full ride to not play for us. No better/worse then Nessy.
Goalie - needed.
I wasn't a big fan of the squad games used to select the so-called starting lineup and taxi squad.
Guys weren't that good in some cases.
Kylington hadn't played in forever.
Gawdin was injured after a good play-in camp.
Ruzicka was pretty decent but we don't play rookies with only one year in the AHL; forwards anyway.
Zary maybe not ready, but who really knows.
Phillips is too small, and hey nobody plays small players in the NHL.
We've seen this for most/all of last season.
Injury call up means you practice with the team, but don't expect to play over Rinaldo or the flaour of the week D-man from another team.
We talk about lack of identity or culture here, but I'm not sure what the coach is doing. Good soldiers that can't handle the NHL trump skills or speed.
No ned to change the NHL roster, since we just need to bear down to win. Attention to detail. Emotional investment.
I want Stone’s job! Get to hang out with the guys, stay in shape, play a game I love at the highest level, play in practice and scrimmage...
by the time I am at my highest salary, it’ll take me 8-10 years to gross minimum wage in the NHL.
I mean! Imagine him in the highest beer league, he would be a star. Skating with the NHLers is huge! Cant fault him for that.
a buddy of mine once got to skate with NHLers and Wes Walz was there playing. The skill is unimaginable unless you’re in it. I am sure a bunch of you guys have gotten up to higher levels. So I envy your experience but can see just by reading your posts.
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2 hours ago, tmac70 said:
Simmonds has more goals or the same amount as 17 players on our super deep,roster.
Yup! Just pointing out that they’re playing better as a team and it’s not just the one player. He got himself there.
I just don’t see open lanes like that throughout the bottom 6 and tonight the top 6 looked just as good.
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2 hours ago, jjgallow said:
There's an identity for you lol.
Maybe we need to win a few cups before forging an identity like that again.
You're right about the depth. Granted the whole league is more diluted and there's the arguement about players being faster now I suppose.
Anyway I'd love to get back to that at some point before I forget what it was like.
There were 21 teams back then. If you average 3 top line players, that’s 30 players spread between the 21 teams. Then the 2nd liners. That’s another 30. 60 players divided by 20 teams is essentially 3 extra top 6 players per team, so they would be deeper.
It’s crazy, only 5 teams didn’t make the playoffs. There were also teams on a rebuild so some of those extra good players might be on the better teams.
we will now say players are more skilled and faster, but imagine if those guys actually worked on their skills and development more than they did, those really good players would have been just as skilled or better.
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2 minutes ago, travel_dude said:
I know the reasons why and the things we could have done, but honestly it's up to Bennett to actually do something.
Passing plays not working, go hit someone.
Linemates useless, dump it in and go get the puck.
Shots not coming, go fight your way to the front of the net.
Not getting offense, perfect your shot blocks.
Simmonds is about as useless as they come but he scores goals by not being the man.
Well ya, but Simmonds also needed someone to get him the puck there. That was just as much him moving as it was getting the pass there. And the mistake at the blueline on that play. Have other teams made those mistakes around Bennett? But I get what you're saying, and sure he needs to get himself going, but for me, I could go all night long, and make passes to guys and it doesn't go forward if they're not in good spots to get those passes. When playing with crappy or new line mates, it seems like there's a lot of skating for nothing. And it looks like Bennett is doing a lot of that. It's on him, but at the same time, the line mates all seem to get in each other's way. So while it is on him, it looks like there's just no chemistry. He had a lot of chemistry with Lucic and Dube. While I think it was actually Dube. I just think the biggest problem was not going back to something that was obviously working: Bennett and Dube... A good center still needs a good winger to be in place to have the transitional pass on the way out. If that isn't there sometimes it wastes the centers' ability. Not saying Bennett is a good center, just that Dube does a lot to help out the center and I think Bennett is a natural center. He's a fish out of water again.
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31 minutes ago, Radster said:
I haven't been impressed by either leivo or simone and i aint happy with our young guys. Mage and dube in the bottom 6. They showed us they can definitely play top 6. But are bumped down by these 2. Not impressed with how players get deployed.
I hear you! But for me, there’s so much wrong with the bottom 6 that playing them in the bottom 6 might get you more out of the roster. With them in the Top6 I think the roster gets too thin.
the thing is, if they just play, and they’re on Backlund’s line, then you don’t have to look at it as bottom 6 as Backlund, with the right players, is a top6 center. if they play hard and have the talent of top 6 then they can end up with top 6 numbers.
my issue might be that Ward plays top players no matter how they’re doing, or maybe that just applies to Lucic? Plus, with 6 min left he consistently puts out the 4th line when he should be rolling the best chance to tie it up players.
I don’t see it as a demotion rather than finding what works all the way throughout the lineup.
in the game day thread, TD mention that we can’t worry about getting Bennett going, need to keep on what’s working. But I think you so need to get Bennett going, but also Backlund, Ryan, Lucic, Simon, Nordstrom and Mangiapane - have to get them all going in the “bottom 6.” It is dragging down the rest of the team.
the top 6 is going, and like TD and others have said, the pp, pk, and a lot of other things are working.
my view is bottom 6 and attention to details for as much of a 60 min game as possible.
some days, they’re just not going to have it, but reach as much as you can to do what it takes...
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the thing is, I felt Simon has played his best in the last game or two. He’s started to help his line keep zone time and recover pucks by forechecking. He’s not getting the chances as much, but I think he has done a lot to give Johnny and Monny those extra shots.
Johnny has been skating, and it’s good to see.
Sam Bennett
in Flames Talk
Posted
they might need to put home at top 3 or 6 just to show he has value and everyone would probably understand.
they already kind of did that last night giving him extra ice time. Not a lot, but some more.